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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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This be a way out there suggestion but what putting next year's 1st round pick into the mix ?

Our #6, next year's 1st round pick, Bouma and Poirier for the #3 (Puljujarvi), Hartnell, and Rychel.

 

I think if you are offerieng next year's first you will get more traction but it would likelly have to be a combination of 1 or 2 of this years's 2nd PLUS next year's first. I think you get them to start listening to that. They probably arn't moving Rychel and have no need for Bouma so that doesn't get you anywhere. 

 

and I would argue putting next year's first in the deal is too much. I wouldn't do that just for 3 spots. Different between Nylander and Puljujarvi is not great enough. 

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I think if you are offerieng next year's first you will get more traction but it would likelly have to be a combination of 1 or 2 of this years's 2nd PLUS next year's first. I think you get them to start listening to that. They probably arn't moving Rychel and have no need for Bouma so that doesn't get you anywhere. 

 

and I would argue putting next year's first in the deal is too much. I wouldn't do that just for 3 spots. Different between Nylander and Puljujarvi is not great enough. 

Rychel and Bouma may or may not be something they would want to do, I just threw that in there. I disagree with your thinking on Puljujarvi vs taking Nylander only because Puljujarvi is a now for the roster player that helps immediately. This gets us our top line in place to grow with each other. Our RW and Goal are the two key positions this team needs now in order to get better.

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Rychel and Bouma may or may not be something they would want to do, I just threw that in there. I disagree with your thinking on Puljujarvi vs taking Nylander only because Puljujarvi is a now for the roster player that helps immediately. This gets us our top line in place to grow with each other. Our RW and Goal are the two key positions this team needs now in order to get better.

 

Yes Puljujarvi is probably going to play in the NHL sooner and make more of an immediate impact but I don't care about that and I don't think that should factor into your decision. It should be what are they going to be when they are in the NHL and when they both get there I son't think the gap will be large enought to warrant giving up a 1st round pick and potetnially multiple 2nds. 

 

Focus for the Flames is being the best team they can be in 2-3 years from now. Don't overpay to get better int he short term. 

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If you made it lotto protected, that might fly from our side.  It still doesn't address their need for a top center, but not much will.  Top centers don't get traded for a draft pick.  And they can't even take a player like Nuge (2/3 center) due to salary.  Hartnell alone doesn't get you that either.

 

They blew it when they traded away Carter and then RJ.

Let's not forget there are players such as Backes out there if CBJ want a top C now.

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Yes Puljujarvi is probably going to play in the NHL sooner and make more of an immediate impact but I don't care about that and I don't think that should factor into your decision. It should be what are they going to be when they are in the NHL and when they both get there I son't think the gap will be large enought to warrant giving up a 1st round pick and potetnially multiple 2nds. 

 

Focus for the Flames is being the best team they can be in 2-3 years from now. Don't overpay to get better int he short term. 

Once again I disagree, it is the GM's job to make the roster the best it can be year in and out. You have the opportunity to get an immediate impact player now that is a fit with the young core we have, let the future look after itself.

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Thought I’d have a go...

Im more than likely well off the mark and probably have some over/under payments but i have tried to make it equitable for all involved.

 

To Calgary

·         Pick 3

·         Scott Hartnel – 4.75M

 

 

Calgary Take on $1.17M and pick 3 in the draft.

 

To Columbus

·         Pick 5

·         Rights to Wotherspoon - RFA

·         Mikael Backlund - $3.57M

·         Pick 56 – CGY

 

Columbus save $1.17M and gain pick 5 and pick 56.

 

To Vancouver

·         Pick 6 OA

·         Boone Jenner - $2.9M

·         Rights to Tyler Wotherspoon - RFA

·         Pick 32 – CBJ

 

Vancouver take on 2.9M, the rights to Wotherspoon as well as pick 6 and 32 in the draft.

 

If Calgary can shed one of the contracts of Wideman/Raymond or have Smid go on LTIR or retire $1.17M shouldn’t be a lot of trouble to take on.

 

I can’t see Columbus having an issue with acquiring Backlund, pick 5 and pick 56 in exchange for pick3 and Calgary taking on a bad contract.

 

This is where it gets a bit sticky, it will be hard to convince Vancouver to (1) help Calgary move up in the draft, (2) Move down a spot in the draft and (3) have the ability to take on the 2.9M however they get compensated with 2 picks (6 & 32) and a young centre who put up 49 points in his 3rd year and the option of signing Wotherspoon.

So Vancouver moves down 1spot to gain Jenner, pick 32 & the rfa rights to Wortherspoon. They make out like bandits.

Leaving them out off it with the BJs getting #6 makes more sense.

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Once again I disagree, it is the GM's job to make the roster the best it can be year in and out. You have the opportunity to get an immediate impact player now that is a fit with the young core we have, let the future look after itself.

For me it's the Gms job to win a championship and put your team in the best position to do so. Focussing on building year by year is a good way to stay a mediocre franchise IMO.

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For me it's the Gms job to win a championship and put your team in the best position to do so. Focussing on building year by year is a good way to stay a mediocre franchise IMO.

Depends on the moves to add quality year to year that will eventually make a team a consistent contender. if you add Puljujarvi now he has a two year head start over someone such a Nylander, plus if you deem the player has a part of your core you don't put the move off if it is staring you in the face today.

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Depends on the moves to add quality year to year that will eventually make a team a consistent contender. if you add Puljujarvi now he has a two year head start over someone such a Nylander, plus if you deem the player has a part of your core you don't put the move off if it is staring you in the face today.

You act like its a reasonable trade. IMO giving up the 6th overal pick, at least 1 maybe 2 2nds AND a first round pick next year is not a reasonable trade.

I'm not saying don't acquire Puljujarvi I'm saying don't overpay for him. Especially considering Nylander isn't a big drop down.

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What Columbus needs is a number one centre thst helps immediately.

Rather then move down what about something like Bennett, the 35 pick, and Wideman with 2 million retained for the 3 pick and Hartnell?

It hurts losing Bennett but now your picking at 3 and at 6. Plus the Flames get rid of Wideman and have an upgrade at wing with Hartnell. We also don't need to be talking about trading Backlund because now the Flames can afford to keep him.

Bennett is a similar caliber prospect to Puljujarvi but he is at centre and two years closer. Plus they clear the Hartnell contract and get a bit of cap space immediately.

Dang that's a tough 1 KH.

I really like Bennett but Monahan is our #1C for the next few years.

Adding Hartnell, Puljujarvi & Chychrun @ a cost of Bennett, pick 35 & Wideman while keeping our #6 is great for the Flames in the large picture. We gain 2 top 6 wingers & a likely top 2 defence @ the cost of a predicted future 1C. Right now we need those wingers as we can get by with Backlund @ #2 center.

I hate to trade Bennett but you have to put personal feelings aside for what likely results in a better team.

 

I'd regretfully do it.

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You act like its a reasonable trade. IMO giving up the 6th overal pick, at least 1 maybe 2 2nds AND a first round pick next year is not a reasonable trade.

I'm not saying don't acquire Puljujarvi I'm saying don't overpay for him. Especially considering Nylander isn't a big drop down.

First off it is you that put 2 2nd round picks into the conversation not me. If we should get 2 or 3 of our key building pieces now vs waiting I would forego next year's first round pick. I see Puljujarvi just as important to our growth as Hamilton was for our defense.

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What Columbus needs is a number one centre thst helps immediately.

Rather then move down what about something like Bennett, the 35 pick, and Wideman with 2 million retained for the 3 pick and Hartnell?

It hurts losing Bennett but now your picking at 3 and at 6. Plus the Flames get rid of Wideman and have an upgrade at wing with Hartnell. We also don't need to be talking about trading Backlund because now the Flames can afford to keep him.

Bennett is a similar caliber prospect to Puljujarvi but he is at centre and two years closer. Plus they clear the Hartnell contract and get a bit of cap space immediately.

Not many trade proposals make me stop and take another look. This one did!!!.

In my opinion it is a near even match trade but I would add Min 6th rnd we got for Jones and could see it happening.

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Dang that's a tough 1 KH.

I really like Bennett but Monahan is our #1C for the next few years.

Adding Hartnell, Puljujarvi & Chychrun @ a cost of Bennett, pick 35 & Wideman while keeping our #6 is great for the Flames in the large picture. We gain 2 top 6 wingers & a likely top 2 defence @ the cost of a predicted future 1C. Right now we need those wingers as we can get by with Backlund @ #2 center.

I hate to trade Bennett but you have to put personal feelings aside for what likely results in a better team.

I'd regretfully do it.

Or you still trade for a winger that can make Backlund better too.

Pululjarvi

Tkachuk/Nylander

In two years:

Gaudreau, Monahan, Pululjarvi

Tkachuk/Nylander, Backlund, Frolik

Shinkuruk, Jankowski, Hartnell

Bridie, Hamilton

Giordano, Andersson

Jokipakka, Klington

Hoping that Shinks and Janks make it in a few years, NOT THIS YEAR. But D could be set already for awhile.

I like the idea of getting Chychrun too though.

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What Columbus needs is a number one centre thst helps immediately.

Rather then move down what about something like Bennett, the 35 pick, and Wideman with 2 million retained for the 3 pick and Hartnell?

It hurts losing Bennett but now your picking at 3 and at 6. Plus the Flames get rid of Wideman and have an upgrade at wing with Hartnell. We also don't need to be talking about trading Backlund because now the Flames can afford to keep him.

Bennett is a similar caliber prospect to Puljujarvi but he is at centre and two years closer. Plus they clear the Hartnell contract and get a bit of cap space immediately.

 

 

Dang that's a tough 1 KH.

I really like Bennett but Monahan is our #1C for the next few years.

Adding Hartnell, Puljujarvi & Chychrun @ a cost of Bennett, pick 35 & Wideman while keeping our #6 is great for the Flames in the large picture. We gain 2 top 6 wingers & a likely top 2 defence @ the cost of a predicted future 1C. Right now we need those wingers as we can get by with Backlund @ #2 center.

I hate to trade Bennett but you have to put personal feelings aside for what likely results in a better team.

 

I'd regretfully do it.

 

Trading our Pitbull from Kingston, plus our 35th pick, plus Widman, plus pay CBJ $2M…………….for and unknown Swede winger and a 34yr old Hartnal?  That sounds like a Jim Benning move -getting younger and older plus eating cash all in one fell swoop.  I’ll decline and stick with the Pitbull.

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You act like its a reasonable trade. IMO giving up the 6th overal pick, at least 1 maybe 2 2nds AND a first round pick next year is not a reasonable trade.

I'm not saying don't acquire Puljujarvi I'm saying don't overpay for him. Especially considering Nylander isn't a big drop down.

It sounds too steep, but after the fact I think we'd be ecstatic. Hey, picks sound great, especially near the draft, but the shine comes off when play starts and the picks don't pan out like you hoped. Look at the Iginla and Bouwmeester deals, two elite players and zippo in return actually contributing to the team. If we came out of this draft and the only thing we had was Puljujarvi it would be a huge draft.

As for Puljujarvi vs Nylander, they seem similar in many ways, but personally I think Puljujarvi is in another whole plane. As an example, Puljujarvi carried his team twice this past year to Championships, Nylander did not.

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Goligoski signed a deal for $5.475m over 5 years.  His rights were traded for a 5th.

 

I didn't watch a lot of Dallas games, but do you think think he is a comparable player to Wideman?  Younger, smaller.  More consistent in points, but low goal totals.  The contract seems high, but it's basically a FA signing.  I just wonder if this deal prices top 4 D too high for some teams and that they might look at Wideman as a low-risk roster piece for one year.

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Goligoski signed a deal for $5.475m over 5 years.  His rights were traded for a 5th.

 

I didn't watch a lot of Dallas games, but do you think think he is a comparable player to Wideman?  Younger, smaller.  More consistent in points, but low goal totals.  The contract seems high, but it's basically a FA signing.  I just wonder if this deal prices top 4 D too high for some teams and that they might look at Wideman as a low-risk roster piece for one year.

No, Goligoski is a much better player than Wideman. Much better skater and way more solid in his own end. Goligoski is pretty underrated and I would call him a decent top 3 option. Bit pricey of a contract IMO but he is better than Wideman and its not that close. 

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It sounds too steep, but after the fact I think we'd be ecstatic. Hey, picks sound great, especially near the draft, but the shine comes off when play starts and the picks don't pan out like you hoped. Look at the Iginla and Bouwmeester deals, two elite players and zippo in return actually contributing to the team. If we came out of this draft and the only thing we had was Puljujarvi it would be a huge draft.

 

But both of those deals were bad they second they were made. I don't think pointing to bad deals justifies or supports that picks arn't important.

Look at it the other way, Sutter gave away how many picks in his tenure and then towards the end of his tenure the Flames have ZERO in terms of prospects they could use to build their team and it errorded their depth. Picks are crucial and giving up so many top 60 picks isn't a smart move IMO, not for where the :Flames are right now. 

 

If you beleive Puljujarvi is the last missing piece then you can get more aggressive. but I think its improtant to remember that Puljujarvi, and whatever role he would fill for the Flames, is just 1 of the many pieces that are currently open for the Flames. Overpaying to fill 1 need is going to cost you elsehwere. If you give up that many picks, whats your plan for acquiring a goalie? How do you improve the bottom 6? 2nd line wingers? defence?

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No, Goligoski is a much better player than Wideman. Much better skater and way more solid in his own end. Goligoski is pretty underrated and I would call him a decent top 3 option. Bit pricey of a contract IMO but he is better than Wideman and its not that close.

Agreed hes better than Wideman but also that it was steep price for an aging player.

Im just loving that all these D targets are being snapped up away from Edmonton. Wideman would be looking better and better.

Ive heard they are in on Shattenkirk but its gonna cost them #4 ++, and if they do get him then Boston may still be interested.

I think whoever is contemplating a run at Russell is a potential landing spot for Wideman (and both edmonton and boston are rumored)

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Should the Flames trade a 5th, 6th or 7th for a chance to negotiate with Lucic? I think Brad has to inquire if he is doing his job but at same time Lucic may be too expensive for Flames after signing Johnny and Sean.  If they can move out some bad money such as Wides, Stajan, Bouma and Engelland it may be feasible. Lucic certainly fits the large truculent forward profile Burkie covets.  Can he play the right side though?

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Should the Flames trade a 5th, 6th or 7th for a chance to negotiate with Lucic? I think Brad has to inquire if he is doing his job but at same time Lucic may be too expensive for Flames after signing Johnny and Sean.  If they can move out some bad money such as Wides, Stajan, Bouma and Engelland it may be feasible. Lucic certainly fits the large truculent forward profile Burkie covets.  Can he play the right side though?

 

nah.. they can start talking to him on Saturday.. we wont even know our $ position until at least July 1.. talk to him for free and then see where the other chips fall

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nah.. they can start talking to him on Saturday.. we wont even know our $ position until at least July 1.. talk to him for free and then see where the other chips fall

What concerns me about waiting is that according to twitter I have seen posted that Lucic has already been given permission to talk to other teams.  If that is the case he either may not make it to July 1st or will have a pre-determined place he is going to go. Trading a high pick like 6 or 7th rounds for negotiating rights has prooved fruitful in the past like with Bouwmeester and more recently Goligoski in Arizona.

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The Kings took a good run at signing Lucic and couldn't get it done. They have 8 million in cap room and really no one else other than Lucic to sign. That tells me Lucic is looking for a pretty massive deal.

 

Pass. Let someone else overpay him. 

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You are likely right I just like the idea of having a guy like Lucic out there to help protect Johnny. Have seen many times where ppl take a run at him and no one responds

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You are likely right I just like the idea of having a guy like Lucic out there to help protect Johnny. Have seen many times where ppl take a run at him and no one responds

 

Sure and i think most would agree. But would you pay over 6 milion for that over the next 5/6 seasons? I think that is what it is going to take. 

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