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Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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Well that sounds like a step in the exact wrong direction. Trade a top 3 defender so that we can use the #6 to pick a possible top 3 defender, 3-5 years down the road. It's all a bunch of hooey anyway. No reason CGY makes that trade, especially with EDM. They would need to pay a lot higher than market value.

I don't mind trying to move to #3. The BJ's seem like they want Laine or Matthews, and are only holding onto the pick until they get a max offer, or their guy is available at 3.

The 4th is higher than what we paid for Hamilton. We couldn't trade the 15th pick and 2 mid 2nds for the 4th pick.

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I've been giving a lot of thought about where this team is heading, and what we need to challenge for a cup - because that's the goal. If Hamilton gets you a 4th, and you end up with *2* Top 6 players from this draft, who will be making entry-level money for the next 3 years, I think that's the kind of cap structure/flexibility you need in order to contend year after year. Would it hurt dealing Hamilton now? Yes. Are we challenging for a cup this year with him? No. Could Hamilton be replaced? Well, we have some pretty interesting defensive prospects, I'm assuming we'd pick one of the D from this draft with our 2nd 1st-round pick, and with names like Fowler and Shattenkirk being bandied about, not to mention Yandle and Goligoski recently signing elsewhere, I'm finding myself supporting such a trade if it's available.

 

The more I think about it, the more I see building a team like a 3-tiered structure. Entry level guys making league minimum, a few mid-tier bridge contract players, and your top-tier superstars making the lion's share of the cap. I'm hoping that's the plan and model, and in saying so, I'd support a trade of Hamilton to EDM for the 4th.

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The 4th is higher than what we paid for Hamilton. We couldn't trade the 15th pick and 2 mid 2nds for the 4th pick.

Valid, but that's what they paid for an unsigned RFA Hamilton. With four years remaining on a great deal, a year further into his development, would have cost a lot more.

Love.

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Valid, but that's what they paid for an unsigned RFA Hamilton. With four years remaining on a great deal, a year further into his development, would have cost a lot more.

Love.

 

Good point. So tell EDM to throw in Yak with the 4th too for Hammer (and Smid?). :)

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I don't think trading Hamilton for the 4th overal pick would be smart, nor do I thik they will do it. YOur taking an immediate step or 2 back and whats your upside? I don't view Joellevi or Chyckrun as better prospects than Hamilton so in 3/4 years from now you are just as good as you were today? doesn't make alot of sense to me. 

 

Hamilton and Nylander >>> then Tkachuk/Chychrun, Sergachev Joellevi etc. 

 

I also don't like the argument that trading Hamilton's cap can help them afford Bishop. Makes zero sense for the Flames to trade a 22 year old dman so they can afford a soon to be 31 year old goalie. Backwards thinking. 

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I also don't like the argument that trading Hamilton's cap can help them afford Bishop. Makes zero sense for the Flames to trade a 22 year old dman so they can afford a soon to be 31 year old goalie. Backwards thinking. 

 

I don't think I saw Hamilton's salary related to acquiring Bishop anywhere, but if so - I agree with you. I was suggesting Hamilton's salary could be used elsewhere but nothing specific. Some suggestions? Fowler, Shattenkirk, Schlemko :)

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I don't think I saw Hamilton's salary related to acquiring Bishop anywhere, but if so - I agree with you. I was suggesting Hamilton's salary could be used elsewhere but nothing specific. Some suggestions? Fowler, Shattenkirk, Schlemko :)

 

 

On Twitter there was some chatter that a theory being proposed with the Flaems trading Hamilton was becuase they can't afford Bishop. Apparantly both Craig Button and Bob McKenzie floated the theory out there but that's just going based on Twitter chatter. I didn't see either say it. 

 

I don't really see the value in moving Hamilton for salary reason becuase IMO Hamilton's salary is pretty solid. Just take a look at what Keith Yandle just got paid and tell me Hamilton is overpaid. 

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I don't think trading Hamilton for the 4th overal pick would be smart, nor do I thik they will do it. YOur taking an immediate step or 2 back and whats your upside? I don't view Joellevi or Chyckrun as better prospects than Hamilton so in 3/4 years from now you are just as good as you were today? doesn't make alot of sense to me. 

 

Hamilton and Nylander >>> then Tkachuk/Chychrun, Sergachev Joellevi etc. 

 

I also don't like the argument that trading Hamilton's cap can help them afford Bishop. Makes zero sense for the Flames to trade a 22 year old dman so they can afford a soon to be 31 year old goalie. Backwards thinking.

Sometimes its fun to put the brain cells away and ask "what would Jay do?" Lol

In all seriousness tho, im dying to know what BT is up to. Something is gonna go down, but its gonna be in true "how did he do that" fashion.

I think so much of this is mind games, be in on Lucic so you can possibly price him out of Edmonton and Vancouver, get all worked up on Bishop to drive down Pittsburgh, or St Louis, or Reimer

For all we know hes getting the hamilton rumor out there to make them lose out on Fowler or Shattenkirk so in a last minute panic he gets him to flip picks for Wideman

Like mentioned earlier, the only real reason he would even consider Hamilton seriously is if there is a non hockey reason we dont know about

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I don't think trading Hamilton for the 4th overal pick would be smart, nor do I thik they will do it. YOur taking an immediate step or 2 back and whats your upside? I don't view Joellevi or Chyckrun as better prospects than Hamilton so in 3/4 years from now you are just as good as you were today? doesn't make alot of sense to me.

Hamilton and Nylander >>> then Tkachuk/Chychrun, Sergachev Joellevi etc.

I also don't like the argument that trading Hamilton's cap can help them afford Bishop. Makes zero sense for the Flames to trade a 22 year old dman so they can afford a soon to be 31 year old goalie. Backwards thinking.

I guess where we differ is that I see Hamilton as a #2 at best, but most likely is better suited as a #3. I think Juolevi and Chychrun will be #2's.

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Sometimes its fun to put the brain cells away and ask "what would Jay do?" Lol

In all seriousness tho, im dying to know what BT is up to. Something is gonna go down, but its gonna be in true "how did he do that" fashion.

I think so much of this is mind games, be in on Lucic so you can possibly price him out of Edmonton and Vancouver, get all worked up on Bishop to drive down Pittsburgh, or St Louis, or Reimer

For all we know hes getting the hamilton rumor out there to make them lose out on Fowler or Shattenkirk so in a last minute panic he gets him to flip picks for Wideman

Like mentioned earlier, the only real reason he would even consider Hamilton seriously is if there is a non hockey reason we dont know about

 

Funny you say that because all of this is stuff I could see Jay Feaster doing. Can't see Treliving do it but Feaster, for sure.

 

I don't read a ton into this and I thikn people need to remember that Treliving has the "buzz" of being one of the hardest workers in the game. I think the reason why you hear so much chatter about the Flames has less to do with them actually looking at making these moves and is more a reflection of just how busy Treliving is. Across pro sports, I always find the busiest GMs are the ones that pop up in rumors the most, but funny enough when they actually make a move its one that comes out of left field. 

I guess where we differ is that I see Hamilton as a #2 at best, but most likely is better suited as a #3. I think Juolevi and Chychrun will be #2's.

 

We're close I think.

 

The main point for me is I think the upside for Hamilton, Jueolevi and Chychurn is basicaly the same for me. All of them top out at nubmer 2 dman so why are were going to trade someone who is basicaly already there or a player who is year's away and we will be happy if they get to the same spot anyway? Why take the risk if there is really no upside invovled? I could maybe get behind it if the move was to get one of the fins but while I like Tkachuk/dubois I really don't think their upside is all that higher than Nylander's so if the moral behind the trade is to get Tkachuk/Dubois over Nylander that doesn't really exicite me enough to warrant taking that risk. 

 

But i admit i'm a bigger Hamiton fan that most people. Even at the same age I think Hamilton was a better pro propsect than both Juolevi and Chychrun. 

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The 4th is higher than what we paid for Hamilton. We couldn't trade the 15th pick and 2 mid 2nds for the 4th pick.

 

So essentially you are trading a top 3 defender at age 22 for a very good prospect like Tkachuk?  That value doesn't cut it.  

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I know I am going to get lambasted for this but if Calgary was looking to shed a long term big contract the best option would be Gio. As someone said before we are not going to be contenders next year and I think realistically 4-5 years before we are contenders. If the salary cap continues to only go up a few million like this year then in that 4-5 year time frame his contract is going to be a burden and with him in his late 30's by then it will be hard to move it. I love Gio's compete level but I also look at the big picture why get rid of a 22 year old top 4 defenseman that should be manning the blue line in Calgary for the next 10 years when you can move a still very good defenseman who only has a few seasons really left in the tank. Yea it might not get us the #4 pick but he could get us another 1st round pick and possibly something else. Now go ahead and shoot me, banish me, swing me from a tree but remember we held on to Iggy just a little to long and ended up with B level prospects for it, Agostino and Klimchuck both are fringe NHL players looking at bottom 6 roles.

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I know I am going to get lambasted for this but if Calgary was looking to shed a long term big contract the best option would be Gio. As someone said before we are not going to be contenders next year and I think realistically 4-5 years before we are contenders. If the salary cap continues to only go up a few million like this year then in that 4-5 year time frame his contract is going to be a burden and with him in his late 30's by then it will be hard to move it. I love Gio's compete level but I also look at the big picture why get rid of a 22 year old top 4 defenseman that should be manning the blue line in Calgary for the next 10 years when you can move a still very good defenseman who only has a few seasons really left in the tank.

 

I think you would have a hard time convincing Burke and Treliving that trading Gio makes any sense.  Burke thinks the world of Gio, and BT was the one that made the long term deal.  He knew what the cap was and would possibly be in the future.  

 

The thing hampering the Flames right now is the depth player being payed like stars.  And these are not long term problems.  The two "worst" problems that the Flames have are Stajan and Bouma.  We have both for two years at higher than normal cost.  The rest fall off the books next June.

 

What is preventing us from being a true contender is the the costly players tying up too much available money and having no goaltender.  You can't bring in those players that put you over the top.  Johnny, Monahan, Gio, Brodie are already at the top of their games.  Bennett is getting there.  Backlund and Frolik are the guys you need to do the heavy lifting.  Need some prospects to make the jump and have Dougie/LD pair become a solid pair.    

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I know I am going to get lambasted for this but if Calgary was looking to shed a long term big contract the best option would be Gio. As someone said before we are not going to be contenders next year and I think realistically 4-5 years before we are contenders. If the salary cap continues to only go up a few million like this year then in that 4-5 year time frame his contract is going to be a burden and with him in his late 30's by then it will be hard to move it. I love Gio's compete level but I also look at the big picture why get rid of a 22 year old top 4 defenseman that should be manning the blue line in Calgary for the next 10 years when you can move a still very good defenseman who only has a few seasons really left in the tank. Yea it might not get us the #4 pick but he could get us another 1st round pick and possibly something else. Now go ahead and shoot me, banish me, swing me from a tree but remember we held on to Iggy just a little to long and ended up with B level prospects for it, Agostino and Klimchuck both are fringe NHL players looking at bottom 6 roles.

Now is not the time to trade Giordano nor do I expect the Flames to consider it, they value leadership. Also I doubt they see the playoff or SC window that far out if they continue to build around this core. You can't continually ship out valuable experience and go with futures if you ever want to challenge for a SC, eventually you have to keep the right group of players. If they take Chychrun in this draft the writing may start to appear on the wall for Giordano but not now.

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You wouldn't be trading Hamilton for one of the D so that comparison is irrelevant. You would be trading Hamilton for 5 million in cap space and Dubois.

I am not saying the Flames should do it because we don't have the defensive depth to handle that loss. Not on its own. Of course if they can flip the 6 for Fowler of Hamonic then maybe thst changes. But barring a solid plan for another top 4 I wouldn't trade Hamilton for the 4OA.

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Vanek is being bought out today, is he a guy that we would be interested in on a very cheap short term deal.

RHS sniper. If you can sign him for under $3MIL on a 2 year deal he might work well on the top line.

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Vanek is being bought out today, is he a guy that we would be interested in on a very cheap short term deal.

RHS sniper. If you can sign him for under $3MIL on a 2 year deal he might work well on the top line.

 

Interesting. I've always felt he was held back offensively under the Wild's defensive system.  He could do well with the Flames.  And by that, i mean 30G 30A 60PTS kind of thing.

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Now is not the time to trade Giordano nor do I expect the Flames to consider it, they value leadership. Also I doubt they see the playoff or SC window that far out if they continue to build around this core. You can't continually ship out valuable experience and go with futures if you ever want to challenge for a SC, eventually you have to keep the right group of players. If they take Chychrun in this draft the writing may start to appear on the wall for Giordano but not now.

 

 

I think you would have a hard time convincing Burke and Treliving that trading Gio makes any sense.  Burke thinks the world of Gio, and BT was the one that made the long term deal.  He knew what the cap was and would possibly be in the future.  

 

The thing hampering the Flames right now is the depth player being payed like stars.  And these are not long term problems.  The two "worst" problems that the Flames have are Stajan and Bouma.  We have both for two years at higher than normal cost.  The rest fall off the books next June.

 

What is preventing us from being a true contender is the the costly players tying up too much available money and having no goaltender.  You can't bring in those players that put you over the top.  Johnny, Monahan, Gio, Brodie are already at the top of their games.  Bennett is getting there.  Backlund and Frolik are the guys you need to do the heavy lifting.  Need some prospects to make the jump and have Dougie/LD pair become a solid pair.

I agree this is not the right time nor would they even consider it, just like I don't think they are even considering trading Hamilton. But in my opinion if they wanted to trade a top 4 D for something then Gio would be the more viable option do to age and length on contract. If it is cap space reason then I would rather move Stajan, Bouma and even Wideman (even though he is in the last year of his deal)but I still think in terms of being serious contenders we have at least 4 years unless the goaltending situation works out in our favor somehow and some of the younger players do step up their game.

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I"m not a big Vanek fan. Sure you can argue his numbers suffered with the Wild system that is valid, but what about his compete level? There were nights in Minnisota they basically had to bench him or threaten to make him a healthy scratch and he still didn't get going.

 

He'd really have to sell me on himself, because the Vanek you saw for the last 2 years I woudn't touch at any price. He was awful in Minnisota. 

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His inconsistent effort/play is also what we are trying to avoid as a team. Remember what we were like prior to the rebuild?

That's for anyone who thinks vanek or Stewart fit.

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Some Buzz gathering that Flames and Oilers are discussion a Wideman deal. Edmonton is one of the few places that makes sense for Wideman and it does sound like Flames will either have to take a contract back or eat money.

 

Wideman for Lauri Korpikoski has been floated. Not a good deal, but in order to move Widmeman you can't be picky. 

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Some Buzz gathering that Flames and Oilers are discussion a Wideman deal. Edmonton is one of the few places that makes sense for Wideman and it does sound like Flames will either have to take a contract back or eat money.

 

Wideman for Lauri Korpikoski has been floated. Not a good deal, but in order to move Widmeman you can't be picky. 

 

The Oilers basically have no RHS D except for Mark Fayne.  They could use Wideman.  If the Flames and Oilers can somehow swap picks after this deal, then that would be huge.

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Hamilton to Edmonton for 4th

4th to CBJ for 3rd and Hartnell

Flames pick 3rd and 6th

Where did you come up with this ?

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Some Buzz gathering that Flames and Oilers are discussion a Wideman deal. Edmonton is one of the few places that makes sense for Wideman and it does sound like Flames will either have to take a contract back or eat money.

 

Wideman for Lauri Korpikoski has been floated. Not a good deal, but in order to move Widmeman you can't be picky. 

 

I heard some talk about Wideman, but it sounded more like him and 6th for 4th, plus retaining some of his salary.  Korpikoski makes little sense to us.  He actually made Yak's results look bad.

 

Sounds like the Flames are in on every big deal:

  • Moving Wideman to EDM
  • Moving up to 3rd
  • Front-runner for Lucic
  • Bishop, Elliott and MAF

Only thing missing is Vanek and Rick Nash.

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