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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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I doubt you convince a GM that you start selling when you are in playoff mode.  The goal is always to make the playoffs and try to make a run, without sacrificing the future.  You are always trying to improve.  

 

The team (former GM) signed Wideman and this GM signed Raymond.  They bought out Raymond, as you know.  Other than not being able to trade Wideman now, I fail to see why they are stuck with him.  He was a former GM's choice for term and dollars.  He may still have some legs left, but do you count on that to up his value or trade him knowing a few teams still have needs.

 

What I saw last year was a player slowing down a bit.  His bread and butter was PP minutes and point shots for scoring.  He managed a lot of PP time (more than Hamilton) but not a lot of shots reaching the net.  Most were Wide, man.

 

As cross said, no trade so far likely tells you no interest at this time. He had a lousy year last year, no arguing that fact, every year is different. As far as trading him at the deadline if things are going well for us, definitely the GM has to make choices but it is best to have options.

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While I agree in theory, the problem is who are you moving out? You are likely moving guys out because you don't like their contracts and then the question becomes who wants them? I see we are seeing very clearly that outside of July 1, teams just are not interested in trading for salary or term right now. I think if Wideman was tradable he would have been moved by now so I think the message is pretty clear that Wideman isn't going anywhere. James Wisniewski is still out there as a pending UFA and no one has picked him up and I think if a team really wnated a RH shot dman they'd likely pick him up for free at a fraction of what Wideman will cost. I really thought the Flames could deal Wideman but its looking like either they can't, or he said No. Either way I think Wideman will be on the opening day roster.

 

Flames problem is the guys they want to move are expensive and no one wants the $. They guys they could move out, they likely don't want to part with. I personaly don't think its very smart to part with Engelland, his depth is very valuable and IMO he's worth his contract. 

 

I don't think you can categorize the trades and UFA signings to the point that "player X" is not going to be traded for.  Trades this summer have been almost non-existant.  Does not mean that there won't be a rash of trades this fall?  

 

Wideman may hold the cards ultimately, but he also is looking at his next deal.  If he refuses and plays 3rd pairing minutes, his trade and UFA value becomes much lower.  

 

As far as who could be made available, look at any expiring contract.  A depth D-man on an expiring contract is a trade target.  By TDL, the cap cost to obtain is quite a bit lower.

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I don't think you can categorize the trades and UFA signings to the point that "player X" is not going to be traded for.  Trades this summer have been almost non-existant.  Does not mean that there won't be a rash of trades this fall?  

 

Wideman may hold the cards ultimately, but he also is looking at his next deal.  If he refuses and plays 3rd pairing minutes, his trade and UFA value becomes much lower.  

 

As far as who could be made available, look at any expiring contract.  A depth D-man on an expiring contract is a trade target.  By TDL, the cap cost to obtain is quite a bit lower.

I for the life of me cannot see Wideman playing 3rd pairing if he is here. If management looks at what they got for Russell by having him play 2nd pairing should be incentive enough to start out Wideman there. I don't think Wideman is blocking any deal, there simply isn't one out there for him right now.

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I for the life of me cannot see Wideman playing 3rd pairing if he is here. If management looks at what they got for Russell by having him play 2nd pairing should be incentive enough to start out Wideman there. I don't think Wideman is blocking any deal, there simply isn't one out there for him right now.

 

I get what you are saying.  But you also have to look at the pairs from last season:

 

Gio-Brodie averaging over 22 minutes a game

Jokipakka-Hamilton averaging close to 20 minutes a game

 

Wideman managed 2nd pairing minutes when he played with Russell.  Or when he was spoon fed PP minutes.  Later in the season, he was reduced to 3rd pairing, but still received PP time.  

 

Russell was given the benefit of top 4 minutes, but failed to have a good season.  We bent over Dallas on that deal.  That same type of deal isn't going to be available at TDL for Wideman.  He isn't younger than 30.  He isn't a shot blocker.  He isn't on a value deal.  I see no reason to use 50 games to pump up a player you are walking away from.  If we aren't getting any takers, plant him on the 3rd pairing.  If he still has game, he will be able to show it there anyway.  No point in giving him plum minutes.  The coach and GM want to win.

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I don't think you can categorize the trades and UFA signings to the point that "player X" is not going to be traded for.  Trades this summer have been almost non-existant.  Does not mean that there won't be a rash of trades this fall?  

 

 

What do you think is going to change between now and the fall that facilitate more trades? 

 

I think it's a reality of economics. 1 third of the league has less than 3 million in cap space  and a little over half has less than 5 mill in cap space. Even if you cover the maximum salary allowed, Wideman still isn't really a factor for many teams around the league unless you take an equal contract in return and then I be the Flames would ask themsvles what is the point? 

 

You are right, he may still get dealt but i'm very skeptical. I fully expect he'll be a Flame come October. 

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I get what you are saying.  But you also have to look at the pairs from last season:

 

Gio-Brodie averaging over 22 minutes a game

Jokipakka-Hamilton averaging close to 20 minutes a game

 

Wideman managed 2nd pairing minutes when he played with Russell.  Or when he was spoon fed PP minutes.  Later in the season, he was reduced to 3rd pairing, but still received PP time.  

 

Russell was given the benefit of top 4 minutes, but failed to have a good season.  We bent over Dallas on that deal.  That same type of deal isn't going to be available at TDL for Wideman.  He isn't younger than 30.  He isn't a shot blocker.  He isn't on a value deal.  I see no reason to use 50 games to pump up a player you are walking away from.  If we aren't getting any takers, plant him on the 3rd pairing.  If he still has game, he will be able to show it there anyway.  No point in giving him plum minutes.  The coach and GM want to win.

You and I are not going to agree on this so we should quit why we are ahead. Your answer to every bad contract or bad performance from the year before is to bury the player or pay him out, sorry to burst your bubble but it just doesn't work that way.

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I agree with Mac to an extent. Some players may find new opportunities under a new coach in a new season. Guys like Bouma, Stajan, and even Bollig may see their ice time and roles increase.

Wideman is a candidate for sure. What I think is working against him is that Hamilton makes him redundant. Wideman is successful when given a lot of PP time but that is going to be tough to come by. Plus when you already have Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton in the top 4 Wideman isn't a good fit.

If the Flames can't trade him (very possible) then he should get an opportunity in camp. But it's going to take an injury or a heck of a camp for him to make the top 4.

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You and I are not going to agree on this so we should quit why we are ahead. Your answer to every bad contract or bad performance from the year before is to bury the player or pay him out, sorry to burst your bubble but it just doesn't work that way.

 

Somehow, you always generalize in your attempt to trash me.  If you don't see the writing on the wall from BT's hard line, I don't know what to tell you.  Raymond was bought out.  Colborne, Jooris, and Ortio were not qualified.  Gone.  He was trying to move quite a few player at TDL, including your favorite Bouma.  It's just business.  Waiving players is part of it.

 

The country club is closed.  BT is a very active GM, so the deals may not be reported on rumor mills, but it doesn't mean they aren't being discussed GM to GM.

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Can Wideman be moved sure, but for what, who and at what cost. I agree with Cross, as we are trying to free cap space and roster space as is ever other team. I know there was dialogue of Wideman to Edm for Yak while retaining half Wides salary. I am all for the trade however you have to ask is YAK worth 5 Million because that is what your paying to acquire him, which simply is waaaaay to much. If you want YAK made a prospect Dman that is on the cusp of an NHL contrract, Wotherspoon or Kulak. Have to agree that i believe Wides is here til the end.

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Somehow, you always generalize in your attempt to trash me.  If you don't see the writing on the wall from BT's hard line, I don't know what to tell you.  Raymond was bought out.  Colborne, Jooris, and Ortio were not qualified.  Gone.  He was trying to move quite a few player at TDL, including your favorite Bouma.  It's just business.  Waiving players is part of it.

 

The country club is closed.  BT is a very active GM, so the deals may not be reported on rumor mills, but it doesn't mean they aren't being discussed GM to GM.

I don't like that you seem to do everyone in management's thinking for them, are you a fly on the wall ? why is Bouma all of sudden my favorite ? I think I was one that said an important part of this offseason was to try and get rid of as many bad contracts as possible. BT can try but sometimes you don't have takers and have to live with a player. You on the other hand label them useless and trash them, bury them in stupid scenerios or go to your favorite solutions buy outs or waive them. This organization doesn't treat people like that I am happy to say, this is good business.

I agree with Mac to an extent. Some players may find new opportunities under a new coach in a new season. Guys like Bouma, Stajan, and even Bollig may see their ice time and roles increase.

Wideman is a candidate for sure. What I think is working against him is that Hamilton makes him redundant. Wideman is successful when given a lot of PP time but that is going to be tough to come by. Plus when you already have Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton in the top 4 Wideman isn't a good fit.

If the Flames can't trade him (very possible) then he should get an opportunity in camp. But it's going to take an injury or a heck of a camp for him to make the top 4.

or move Brodie with Hamilton, easy fix

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or move Brodie with Hamilton, easy fix

 

Maybe. Really depends on what Wideman you get. I think the Wideman of 2 years ago could handle a top 4 role on this team but the Wideman of last year? No way. 

 

We'll see. I mean the one thing the Flames do have going for them in terms of keeping Wideman is he tends to follow up poor years with good to very good ones. Hasnt' realy put together 2 good or 2 bad years in a row throughout his career. 

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I kind of expect to see the following D pairings to start the season:

 

Brodie - Hamilton

Giordano - Wideman

Jokipakka - Engelland

Smid if not on LTIR, Wotherspoon if he is.

 

I'm not seeing any room to re-sign Nakladal, unless Wideman or Engelland are traded.

I certainly liked what I saw of him last season as a 3rd pairing RD.

His skating was fine and I loved his shot.

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Maybe. Really depends on what Wideman you get. I think the Wideman of 2 years ago could handle a top 4 role on this team but the Wideman of last year? No way. 

 

We'll see. I mean the one thing the Flames do have going for them in terms of keeping Wideman is he tends to follow up poor years with good to very good ones. Hasnt' realy put together 2 good or 2 bad years in a row throughout his career. 

I agree however I can't wait until he is gone because other than being a RHD and usually a good PP defenseman he isn't a very good overall defenseman. The point I have been making is playing him top 4 to give him ever advantage to succeed not bury him for failure.

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I kind of expect to see the following D pairings to start the season:

 

Brodie - Hamilton

Giordano - Wideman

Jokipakka - Engelland

Smid if not on LTIR, Wotherspoon if he is.

 

I'm not seeing any room to re-sign Nakladal, unless Wideman or Engelland are traded.

I certainly liked what I saw of him last season as a 3rd pairing RD.

His skating was fine and I loved his shot.

It will be interesting but the management and GG think highly of Engelland so I don't think he is going anywhere. Depending on JG and SM contracts I am half expecting them to re-sign Nakladal even if on a two way if necessary

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Maybe. Really depends on what Wideman you get. I think the Wideman of 2 years ago could handle a top 4 role on this team but the Wideman of last year? No way. 

 

We'll see. I mean the one thing the Flames do have going for them in terms of keeping Wideman is he tends to follow up poor years with good to very good ones. Hasnt' realy put together 2 good or 2 bad years in a row throughout his career. 

He's due for a good year & many players seem to play their best in a contract year. If Wideman does both we should be able to trade him but might not want to.

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Thanks to the mod who re-approved me. I appreciate it.

 

I see many of us lost out avatar & sig. I'll restore mine soon so @ least I'll look like the old Flyerfan52. :)

 

These changes to the board are a pain & I hope we don't lose people again. I almost gave up in frustration but remembered that left HF as the option. :wacko:

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He's due for a good year & many players seem to play their best in a contract year. If Wideman does both we should be able to trade him but might not want to.

***********************************************************

Thanks to the mod who re-approved me. I appreciate it.

 

I see many of us lost out avatar & sig. I'll restore mine soon so @ least I'll look like the old Flyerfan52. :)

 

These changes to the board are a pain & I hope we don't lose people again. I almost gave up in frustration but remembered that left HF as the option. :wacko:

 

I had the same issue, but managed to log in through NHL.com or the Avalanche site; can't remember exactly.  Had to change to new password that was at least 8 characters.  Didn't lose my posts or sig.

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I hear DET is looking for a top defenseman. I wonder if they would take a chance on Wideman with retained salary. They are fairly strong on their Lside defense and could support Wideman. We could ask for Jurco a RW who would fit on our 4th line where we could stand some further competition. Thoughts

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I hear DET is looking for a top defenseman. I wonder if they would take a chance on Wideman with retained salary. They are fairly strong on their Lside defense and could support Wideman. We could ask for Jurco a RW who would fit on our 4th line where we could stand some further competition. Thoughts

 

I would say if you want a top 4 RHS dman who can run a pp then you are taking him at full salary, plus your giving us an asset back.  I don’t see a fit in DET, but maybe NJ.

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I hear DET is looking for a top defenseman. I wonder if they would take a chance on Wideman with retained salary. They are fairly strong on their Lside defense and could support Wideman. We could ask for Jurco a RW who would fit on our 4th line where we could stand some further competition. Thoughts

 

According to General Fanager, the Red Wings are $4.8-mil over the cap right now.  They also signed Mike Green over the summer who is basically Wideman.  Don't think they view Wideman as a piece they need to target at the moment.

 

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/detroit-red-wings

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I would say if you want a top 4 RHS dman who can run a pp then you are taking him at full salary, plus your giving us an asset back.  I don’t see a fit in DET, but maybe NJ.

 

NJ would be a great fit although the Devils have a few young Dmen knocking on the door for NHL time.  Plus, the Devils are a cap floor team.  I do however, believe Wideman has trade value.  After all, he's a top 4 Dman RHS RD who can run a PP.  At least 10 teams in the league are dying for one of those.  His unfortunate incident with the NHL referees drop his trade value significantly but i still think a good deal of teams would be interested in trading for Wideman as long as the price isn't high.

 

I would love to do Wideman for Smith-Pelly straight up.  As it stands, our 3rd pairing D is Wideman - Engellend.  Not only is that too expensive of a 3rd pair, it's two RHS D which makes it awkward.  We got a taste of Wideman on the left side last season and it wasn't pretty.

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According to General Fanager, the Red Wings are $4.8-mil over the cap right now.  They also signed Mike Green over the summer who is basically Wideman.  Don't think they view Wideman as a piece they need to target at the moment.

 

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/detroit-red-wings

They had Mike Green on the team this past season and since when does any team only want one offensive minded defenseman. Wideman at the right bought-down price could be a fit. Maybe they have to get rid of someone else.

Also agree with Cheers that NJD would or should have been a good place to deal him to. I honestly doubt his incident affect his movement at all. All I know is that we need to get rid of Wideman.

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NJ would be a great fit although the Devils have a few young Dmen knocking on the door for NHL time.  Plus, the Devils are a cap floor team.  I do however, believe Wideman has trade value.  After all, he's a top 4 Dman RHS RD who can run a PP.  At least 10 teams in the league are dying for one of those.  His unfortunate incident with the NHL referees drop his trade value significantly but i still think a good deal of teams would be interested in trading for Wideman as long as the price isn't high.

 

I would love to do Wideman for Smith-Pelly straight up.  As it stands, our 3rd pairing D is Wideman - Engellend.  Not only is that too expensive of a 3rd pair, it's two RHS D which makes it awkward.  We got a taste of Wideman on the left side last season and it wasn't pretty.

One of my biggest worries for the upcoming season is the possibility that we might see Wideman and Engelland on the ice at the same time.

 

Both players would be hard to trade, though Wideman still has some value.  Edmonton, Carolina or Jersey could use him.

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One of my biggest worries for the upcoming season is the possibility that we might see Wideman and Engelland on the ice at the same time.

 

Both players would be hard to trade, though Wideman still has some value.  Edmonton, Carolina or Jersey could use him.

Hopefully GG is smarter than this. He has already made a small reference to Wideman being part of a top 4 group however things can change. Should Wideman still be here at season's start I think you have to pair him up for some success initially and see where he takes it. They could go with Engelland being the 7th defenseman and have these pairings if they didn't want to mess with Brodie and Giordano.

 

Giordano, Brodie

Jokipakka, Hamilton

Wotherspoon, Wideman

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Not to beat a dea horse but I think if Wideman had trade value he would have been dealt by now. I'll fully admit I thought he would too but I think with the way this summer has gone its pretty clear Wideman does not have trade value even if you retained money. Wisniewski is not that much a dissimilar player from Wideman and the guy coudlnt' even get a contract.

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Not to beat a dea horse but I think if Wideman had trade value he would have been dealt by now. I'll fully admit I thought he would too but I think with the way this summer has gone its pretty clear Wideman does not have trade value even if you retained money. Wisniewski is not that much a dissimilar player from Wideman and the guy coudlnt' even get a contract.

But everything is on hold right now. How many free agents are signing these days? Vrbata. We are seeing little deals.

I think teams are in a waiting pattern, waiting for closer to the season, things will change. Maybe someone's World Cup D will go down and Wideman has instant value?

Russell hasn't signed yet. Free agency is almost like death to a career these days.

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