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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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But everything is on hold right now. How many free agents are signing these days? Vrbata. We are seeing little deals.

I think teams are in a waiting pattern, waiting for closer to the season, things will change. Maybe someone's World Cup D will go down and Wideman has instant value?

Russell hasn't signed yet. Free agency is almost like death to a career these days.

 

Sure, but why is it on hold? Maybe teams just like their teams but IMO I think this summer has clearly demonstrated that teams are scared of the cap, scared of the lack of movement int he cap and are responding by not taking any money risks. 

I personaly don't think things will change. I dont' think this is a holding pattern, I think this is teams reacting to a new economic landscape that is not as pretty as they are accustomed to. 

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Sure, but why is it on hold? Maybe teams just like their teams but IMO I think this summer has clearly demonstrated that teams are scared of the cap, scared of the lack of movement int he cap and are responding by not taking any money risks. 

I personaly don't think things will change. I dont' think this is a holding pattern, I think this is teams reacting to a new economic landscape that is not as pretty as they are accustomed to. 

I brought this up only because I saw that DET was looking, maybe they have someone definite in mind.

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Sure, but why is it on hold? Maybe teams just like their teams but IMO I think this summer has clearly demonstrated that teams are scared of the cap, scared of the lack of movement int he cap and are responding by not taking any money risks. 

I personaly don't think things will change. I dont' think this is a holding pattern, I think this is teams reacting to a new economic landscape that is not as pretty as they are accustomed to. 

 

Which is why I get scared of ludicrous salaries for players. Sure players deserve the big bucks, but what happens when revenue goes down? Cap goes down too. Or the players pay more into Escrow? Not sure how that works, but I just don't think the big salaries are good for the NHL. After Sportsnet signed the TV deal, there's not much more coming in. Economies in Canada are crashing a bit, especially in Calgary, and I am not sure if it's on the rise again or not, as I don't live there, but, that's troubling. 

 

Pretty soon ticket prices are going to have to be lowered too. 

 

SO maybe you are right, there isn't a holding pattern as much as teams might not be able to afford taking on more salary due to the cap, economy and perhaps the local economies (internal caps). 

Something is going to burst.... And I don't know if the NHL's economic structure is going to be able to hold-up....  I am not saying there's going to be no NHL, but I think the Cap and salaries are going to need another lock-out to figure out. 

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Which is why I get scared of ludicrous salaries for players. Sure players deserve the big bucks, but what happens when revenue goes down? Cap goes down too. Or the players pay more into Escrow? Not sure how that works, but I just don't think the big salaries are good for the NHL. After Sportsnet signed the TV deal, there's not much more coming in. Economies in Canada are crashing a bit, especially in Calgary, and I am not sure if it's on the rise again or not, as I don't live there, but, that's troubling. 

 

Pretty soon ticket prices are going to have to be lowered too. 

 

SO maybe you are right, there isn't a holding pattern as much as teams might not be able to afford taking on more salary due to the cap, economy and perhaps the local economies (internal caps). 

Something is going to burst.... And I don't know if the NHL's economic structure is going to be able to hold-up....  I am not saying there's going to be no NHL, but I think the Cap and salaries are going to need another lock-out to figure out. 

 

More money goes into escrow. The way the CBA is written and designed it is so the owners will never expend more than are required to in salaries. 

 

What you are describing is already happending and the squeeze is on the lower players. That's why you are seeing so many more PTO, buyouts and team avoiding "bad deals" as much as they can. 

 

YOu can call it ludicrous if you want but its all relative. The NHL is a 3 billion dollar business and pays less than 50% of its revenues out in player salaries. That is not a ludacrious business model. 

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Which is why I get scared of ludicrous salaries for players. Sure players deserve the big bucks, but what happens when revenue goes down? Cap goes down too. Or the players pay more into Escrow? Not sure how that works, but I just don't think the big salaries are good for the NHL. After Sportsnet signed the TV deal, there's not much more coming in. Economies in Canada are crashing a bit, especially in Calgary, and I am not sure if it's on the rise again or not, as I don't live there, but, that's troubling. 

 

Pretty soon ticket prices are going to have to be lowered too. 

 

SO maybe you are right, there isn't a holding pattern as much as teams might not be able to afford taking on more salary due to the cap, economy and perhaps the local economies (internal caps). 

Something is going to burst.... And I don't know if the NHL's economic structure is going to be able to hold-up....  I am not saying there's going to be no NHL, but I think the Cap and salaries are going to need another lock-out to figure out. 

The contracts to Monahan and Gaudreau will be good indicators for this team's future. I'm not so sure market value should always be the ultimate deciding factor for player or team. The Flames are not the CHIHawks or STLBlues who have already been paying established star players significant dollars. We are a growing team which will require more dollars for more young up and coming players. All of this has to be taken into consideration.

I agree with you rob about paying the "stars" 3 to 4M more than your other top players and ending up with musical chairs throughout the NHL.

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Something is going to burst.... And I don't know if the NHL's economic structure is going to be able to hold-up....  I am not saying there's going to be no NHL, but I think the Cap and salaries are going to need another lock-out to figure out. 

 

Nothing is going to burst.  We're already seeing teams forced to move away from mid-tier players (ie Russell), identify their core and lock them up to big money long term, then fill out the roster with value contracts.  It wins championships and the Flames should follow that model too.  We can't afford too many Widemans, Frolik, and Brouwer types.  It's better to use that money on one more $7-mil core guy and then two value guys.

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Nothing is going to burst. We're already seeing teams forced to move away from mid-tier players (ie Russell), identify their core and lock them up to big money long term, then fill out the roster with value contracts. It wins championships and the Flames should follow that model too. We can't afford too many Widemans, Frolik, and Brouwer types. It's better to use that money on one more $7-mil core guy and then two value guys.

Only one team has done that and it is rare. It maybe a new trend but so far only Chicago has been successful with that strategy. Maybe the Pens this year.

The other teams, their stars have been on lower contracts due to when they signed. So this is the new NHL and it doesn't always win you champs. You have to have the right mix of leadership and the right bottom players. Like everything else, it's all about the recipe.

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Only one team has done that and it is rare. It maybe a new trend but so far only Chicago has been successful with that strategy. Maybe the Pens this year.

The other teams, their stars have been on lower contracts due to when they signed. So this is the new NHL and it doesn't always win you champs. You have to have the right mix of leadership and the right bottom players. Like everything else, it's all about the recipe.

 

No.  If you pay closer attention, then you'll see that every team is trying to do that.  No team is letting go their stud players to spend the cap on a couple mid-tier guys instead.  Those mid-tier guys are getting squeezed out.  It's just that not every team has a Toews and Kane or the core of the Penguins so it doesn't look that obvious yet.  The Flames for example is, and should, emerge out of this current rebuild with that same strategy and build.  Lock up Monahan, Gaudreau, and the core.  Eventually, you got to cut loose the mid-tier guys and challenge the youth to step up to fill those roles.

 

So the rich get richer and the middle class and poor get poorer.

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No. If you pay closer attention, then you'll see that every team is trying to do that. No team is letting go their stud players to spend the cap on a couple mid-tier guys instead. Those mid-tier guys are getting squeezed out. It's just that not every team has a Toews and Kane or the core of the Penguins so it doesn't look that obvious yet. The Flames for example is, and should, emerge out of this current rebuild with that same strategy and build. Lock up Monahan, Gaudreau, and the core. Eventually, you got to cut loose the mid-tier guys and challenge the youth to step up to fill those roles.

So the rich get richer and the middle class and poor get poorer.

Does that mean you gotta choose between Monahan and Bennett? Because very well could be #1C. Although, the Pens just had The cry baby right winger play 3rd line. They also have Malkin and Crosby, two #1C.

We shall see.

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Does that mean you gotta choose between Monahan and Bennett? Because very well could be #1C. Although, the Pens just had The cry baby right winger play 3rd line. They also have Malkin and Crosby, two #1C.

We shall see.

This is where all GMs have to get smarter, I don't agree with People because sooner or later other teams have the mid tier players they need on their rosters. You brought up the Penquins but look at the roster after those 3 highly paid forwards, you have one highly paid defenseman in Letang and Fleury as the other highly paid. Any team now has to make it work along the way and be fortunate enough to get to the end. Building teams like they did in the 70's with those dynasties has become a thing of the past which I think is unfortunate.

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I've got a wowser suggestion that could work. A lot of you won't like it. :o

 

To NJ:

RFA rights to Gaudreau

Wideman

1 of Stajan or Backlund

 

To Flames:

Taylor Hall

A 2nd round pick in 2017 or a  good prospect like Santini

Cap space

 

The Debbies need scoring & Gaudreau provides just a tad more than Hall while either Stajan or Backlund adds more. Their defense is weak (strange to say about the team that used to be a D-man factory) so Wideman helps. With over $14 million  in cap space & only 45 roster spots taken they improve & fill their roster with an additional outlay of 8-10 million (depending on Gaudreau's contract).

 

For Calgary Hall isn't much of a step down from Gaudreau (& our coaches/management/trainers should be able to light a fire under his butt bringing him back to what he was in junior). A 2nd rounder or good prospect is always handy while the cap space can be used to fill holes.

 

Flame away. :)

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Sorry FF, that is a terrible suggestion. At best your talking about unloading Gaudreau for Hall with a couple of cap dumps. At worst your making us much worse by losing Backlund and downgrading our top LW so you can dump Wideman's one year.

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I would have to agree with Kehatch. It is not worth it to give up gaudreau and backlund to get hall and some cap space when cap space isn't an issue after this season anyway. This deal is structures as if backlund is a throw away or a bad contract when he is actually a very good value contract. He has much more value than this deal suggest. This is a very lopsided suggestions in New Jerseys favor.

You need ALOT more before I would consider moving gaudreau

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I've got a wowser suggestion that could work. A lot of you won't like it. :o

 

To NJ:

RFA rights to Gaudreau

Wideman

1 of Stajan or Backlund

 

To Flames:

Taylor Hall

A 2nd round pick in 2017 or a  good prospect like Santini

Cap space

 

The Debbies need scoring & Gaudreau provides just a tad more than Hall while either Stajan or Backlund adds more. Their defense is weak (strange to say about the team that used to be a D-man factory) so Wideman helps. With over $14 million  in cap space & only 45 roster spots taken they improve & fill their roster with an additional outlay of 8-10 million (depending on Gaudreau's contract).

 

For Calgary Hall isn't much of a step down from Gaudreau (& our coaches/management/trainers should be able to light a fire under his butt bringing him back to what he was in junior). A 2nd rounder or good prospect is always handy while the cap space can be used to fill holes.

 

Flame away. :)

Just Wow, FF! I thought I've seen some crazy ideas before. First off I'm not sure what you are trying to do here. Gutting our offence by trading away the stick that stirs everything. Then, add in a solid (but overpaid) D and a very solid 2c/3c for basically a LW with team/locker room issues that hasn't led anything in at least 6 years and a marginal draft pick? Heck, I wouldn't mind taking a swing with Hall but what you offered you could get for Wideman and Backlund and forget about adding Gaudreau.

If you want to trade Gaudreau you'd have a greater chance with this package and the Flyers.....

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I don't see the need to add Backs to this trade. We don't need the 2nd and JH and Widman alone would likely get Hall.

 

Given the choice between JH and Hall I would pick JH almost every time because he plays a more exciting game.

 

The only part I would find interesting about this trade is the chance to stick it to Oilers with Hall but even then he is tarnished from playing up there. Not sure he will perform at these levels from past.

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Cap space

 

It would be great to dump Stajan but the drop off from Gaudreau to Hall is too big.  Furthermore, cap space would've been great pre-July 1st but it's lost a lot of value after all the good UFAs are gone now.  Cap space from this point forward only gives us flexibility in trades but not entirely necessary.

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Now that Boston failed to get Vesey, i'm wondering if they would be interested in Wideman who has been linked to the Bruins in the past.  According to capgeek, they have $6.7-mil cap space.  Their D is lacking depth, plus Chara is becoming a shadow of his former self and i would argue is no longer a true top pairing Dman.  It could be a good fit as it seems they liked Wideman when he was a Bruin.

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Now that Boston failed to get Vesey, i'm wondering if they would be interested in Wideman who has been linked to the Bruins in the past.  According to capgeek, they have $6.7-mil cap space.  Their D is lacking depth, plus Chara is becoming a shadow of his former self and i would argue is no longer a true top pairing Dman.  It could be a good fit as it seems they liked Wideman when he was a Bruin.

 

The Debbies are even shallower than BOS.  They also have a large amout of cap space available.  Trade Wideman for DSP or trade them Wideman for Savard.  Savard's actual salary is $575k, but brings a cap relief of $4.027m when he goes on LTIR.  

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The Debbies are even shallower than BOS.  They also have a large amout of cap space available.  Trade Wideman for DSP or trade them Wideman for Savard.  Savard's actual salary is $575k, but brings a cap relief of $4.027m when he goes on LTIR.  

 

Yups the Devils definitely need D but they are a cap floor team that has already reached the cap floor.  I'm not sure they have an appetite to add Wideman.  I would be thrilled if we can offload Wideman to them for DSP but it's unlikely.

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I don't see the allure of DSP aside from being a RH shot.

 

0.14 GPG, 0.31 PPG averages over 213 games.

 

His shooting % over his first 195 games was only 6.58.

 

The last 18 games with the Devils was 23.5%.

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I don't see the allure of DSP aside from being a RH shot.

 

0.14 GPG, 0.31 PPG averages over 213 games.

 

His shooting % over his first 195 games was only 6.58.

 

The last 18 games with the Devils was 23.5%.

 

He's a comparable player to Bouma, except RHS RW.  He ended last season strong with the Devils and showed his scoring touch but i agree it's doubtful he keeps up that kind of offensive production.  It's not the offense though.  He's a solid crash and bang player and will prove valuable in a depth role.  The definition of truculence.  Paid fairly at $1.3-mil-per for two years.

 

What can we expect from Wideman, right?

 

Best case is we go into the season with Wideman for insurance against injury and that he may make for a great TDL asset.  

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I've got a wowser suggestion that could work. A lot of you won't like it. :o

 

To NJ:

RFA rights to Gaudreau

Wideman

1 of Stajan or Backlund

 

To Flames:

Taylor Hall

A 2nd round pick in 2017 or a  good prospect like Santini

Cap space

 

The Debbies need scoring & Gaudreau provides just a tad more than Hall while either Stajan or Backlund adds more. Their defense is weak (strange to say about the team that used to be a D-man factory) so Wideman helps. With over $14 million  in cap space & only 45 roster spots taken they improve & fill their roster with an additional outlay of 8-10 million (depending on Gaudreau's contract).

 

For Calgary Hall isn't much of a step down from Gaudreau (& our coaches/management/trainers should be able to light a fire under his butt bringing him back to what he was in junior). A 2nd rounder or good prospect is always handy while the cap space can be used to fill holes.

 

Flame away. :)

Okay, we acquire John Scott from Montreal, but they have to take Stajan, Johnny, Monahan, and Bennett too.  :P

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I don't see the need to add Backs to this trade. We don't need the 2nd and JH and Widman alone would likely get Hall.

 

Given the choice between JH and Hall I would pick JH almost every time because he plays a more exciting game.

 

The only part I would find interesting about this trade is the chance to stick it to Oilers with Hall but even then he is tarnished from playing up there. Not sure he will perform at these levels from past.

If even you think Gaudreau is better than Hall then why would you state that JH & Wideman might get Hall?  Seems confusing.  To me JH is significantly better than Hall and it would be Hall ++ to get Gaudreau.

Okay, we acquire John Scott from Montreal, but they have to take Stajan, Johnny, Monahan, and Bennett too.  :P

John Scott's a FA looking for league minimum.  Might be a good pick-up for AHL/call-up if needed.

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If even you think Gaudreau is better than Hall then why would you state that JH & Wideman might get Hall?  Seems confusing.  To me JH is significantly better than Hall and it would be Hall ++ to get Gaudreau.

John Scott's a FA looking for league minimum.  Might be a good pick-up for AHL/call-up if needed.

I think what DD means is it's already an overpayment and the Devils would jump for that, so there's no need to suggest an even bigger overpayment by adding Backs.

 

As for JS, hey, he showed he's decent enough at the All Star game.

Here's an interesting line suggestion (thought not super serious)

Johnny-Mony-Scott // I call it the two towers and the hobbit.  :lol:

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I've got a wowser suggestion that could work. A lot of you won't like it. :o

 

To NJ:

RFA rights to Gaudreau

Wideman

1 of Stajan or Backlund

 

To Flames:

Taylor Hall

A 2nd round pick in 2017 or a  good prospect like Santini

Cap space

 

The Debbies need scoring & Gaudreau provides just a tad more than Hall while either Stajan or Backlund adds more. Their defense is weak (strange to say about the team that used to be a D-man factory) so Wideman helps. With over $14 million  in cap space & only 45 roster spots taken they improve & fill their roster with an additional outlay of 8-10 million (depending on Gaudreau's contract).

 

For Calgary Hall isn't much of a step down from Gaudreau (& our coaches/management/trainers should be able to light a fire under his butt bringing him back to what he was in junior). A 2nd rounder or good prospect is always handy while the cap space can be used to fill holes.

 

Flame away. :)

Count me in the a lot lol.

My biggest problem with any trade involving JG is that he is a one man industry. Being it's a business, people will pay to see Gaudreau regardless of how the team is doing.

I realize Johnny's going to command large $$, but he is a promoters wet dream and he'll undoubtedly bring in the $$ to earn his keep.

An issue almost as large if we did that trade is, who is our playmaker? We don't have any good ones after him.

Also, Tkachuk may be a Hall type of player in 2 yrs. He plays with his dad's aggression gene.

I can wait a year or 2. We've got some nice rounding prospects now, just some fermentation and let the crap contracts expire.

No rush to change the lead group.

But how the heck do I get my hands on Palmeiri? lol.

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