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Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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Funny how this comment sounds. Most around here have said he is way overpriced for what he brings here. You are now saying we will be hard time to replace him for this price...

Yeah it sounds strange but unless you look @ all the #s it's easy to talk buyout. In many cases salary retention frees more space & runs a shorter term. Retain 35% & you save over 2 million & he'd probably be gone tomorrow saving $s for 2 years instead of waiting for the next buyout window.

& you have to take the cost to replace the player into account.

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Funny how this comment sounds. Most around here have said he is way overpriced for what he brings here. You are now saying we will be hard time to replace him for this price...

 

I do Not get the Matt Stajan love, although I think we have to consider "when" certain statements were made.   

 

At earlier points, Matt Stajan really was making WAY too much money, even for his supporters to deny.

 

Now, numbers are less nuts, but still not equitable in my mind.   He contributes defensively, and stands out defensively on This team.  I do not personally think that is a huge hurdle, though.

 

Offensively, ziltch.   Trend?   He's 32 and not getting faster.

 

Don't see it personally.

 

p.s...I Will concede that this team needs more of his qualities.   I do not, however, believe that constitutes a case for him being cheap.

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Rumor has it DAL may be willing to move Nuchushkin for defense. Wonder if Wideman, Wotherspoon and some retained salary would help them make a deal with us ?

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Rumor has it DAL may be willing to move Nuchushkin for defense. Wonder if Wideman, Wotherspoon and some retained salary would help them make a deal with us ?

 

I doubt they need Wotherspoon and Wideman.  Nichushkin is looking for a new deal, so he may be only worth a bridge deal at this point.  I doubt we would get him just for Wideman on retained salary.  I agree that Dallas has no great depth and really hasn't fixed their D problems this summer.  

 

Let me throw this one out there:

Wideman ($2.625m retained) + Kulak for Nichushkin.  We turn around and sign him to a 3 year bridge deal at $2.625m.  Doesn't make us any better off, but we pick up a big winger and lose one D-man + prospect.  Dallas only commits to a player for one year instead of facing a long term contract for Nichushkin.  Wideman is better offensively than Hamhuis.  

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So Dallas is going to trade a former top 10 pick of only 3 years ago for an aging and slower bordliner top 4 dman for 1 year and a guy who "might" top out as a 6/7 dman? I cannot see that being anywhere near the best deal Dallas would get if they shopped Nichushkin. I'm not even a fan of his and I think Dallas could do better in a trade than that.

 

I don't think his value has dropped as much as people think. I think Dallas only trades him if they can get a dman piece that will be with them for many years to come, or as part of a package for a legit top 3 blueliner. 

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So Dallas is going to trade a former top 10 pick of only 3 years ago for an aging and slower bordliner top 4 dman for 1 year and a guy who "might" top out as a 6/7 dman? I cannot see that being anywhere near the best deal Dallas would get if they shopped Nichushkin. I'm not even a fan of his and I think Dallas could do better in a trade than that.

 

I don't think his value has dropped as much as people think. I think Dallas only trades him if they can get a dman piece that will be with them for many years to come, or as part of a package for a legit top 3 blueliner. 

 

I was being very conservative in my suggestion.  I originally included Hickey as the prospect, but thought that would result in the wrath of Khan. :)

 

Dallas has a year left for a lot of their older players.  Sharp, Hemsky, Oduya are all getting up there.  They have to do something to improve.  Hamhuis is not it.  If they re-sign those guys and maybe Hudler, they are going to have major cap issues.  I can't see anyone taking either of their goalies.  

 

I agree that it's still underpaying with Hickey included, but really Nichushkin has not done anything to show he is worth more. Compare his output to Yakupov.  Neither player is going to get you a top 3 D-man.

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I was being very conservative in my suggestion.  I originally included Hickey as the prospect, but thought that would result in the wrath of Khan. :)

 

Dallas has a year left for a lot of their older players.  Sharp, Hemsky, Oduya are all getting up there.  They have to do something to improve.  Hamhuis is not it.  If they re-sign those guys and maybe Hudler, they are going to have major cap issues.  I can't see anyone taking either of their goalies.  

 

I agree that it's still underpaying with Hickey included, but really Nichushkin has not done anything to show he is worth more. Compare his output to Yakupov.  Neither player is going to get you a top 3 D-man.

 

Hamhuis is a better player than Wideman IMO. Better fit for what they need too. Remember, Dallas doesn't need guys who can move the puck they are stacked in that area, they need guys who can defend which Wideman can't. 

 

I would agree with you that giving up Hickey is a poor idea.

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The Rags are also looking for D but have very limited cap space. They'd be a good landing spot for Wideman with retention as a big market Original 6 team since the refs tend to turn a blind eye to a few things they wouldn't let slide elsewhere (meaning less chance of a vendetta).

I'm just stumped as to what to ask in return as even 50% retention leaves 2.56 & they have only 1.4 in space. 2 years of Grabner @ 1.65 leaves us with 0 saved & an extra year of contract. Would it be worth it to accept 1 year of Tanner Glass @ 1.45 resulting in 1.1 in savings?

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Hamhuis is a better player than Wideman IMO. Better fit for what they need too. Remember, Dallas doesn't need guys who can move the puck they are stacked in that area, they need guys who can defend which Wideman can't. 

 

I would agree with you that giving up Hickey is a poor idea.

 

I would argue that Wideman wasn't a good defender in a Hartley-run system.  I'm not a fan of Hamhuis, so that may color my opinion of him a bit.  I think he is about the same as Russell, IMHO.  I never saw the Nucks as being a good defensive team; about the same GA as the Oilers last season.

 

Giving up on Hickey would hurt, but you have to do that sometimes.  Right now, I think Hickey is below Andersson and Kylington on the rankings.  Unless Hickey takes some big steps, he could fall below Fox.

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I would argue that Wideman wasn't a good defender in a Hartley-run system.  I'm not a fan of Hamhuis, so that may color my opinion of him a bit.  I think he is about the same as Russell, IMHO.  I never saw the Nucks as being a good defensive team; about the same GA as the Oilers last season.

 

Giving up on Hickey would hurt, but you have to do that sometimes.  Right now, I think Hickey is below Andersson and Kylington on the rankings.  Unless Hickey takes some big steps, he could fall below Fox.

 

I think you are too blinded on Hamhuis, is still a very good defender with very good numbers to back that up. Not on the offensive side, but if you look at this posession stats they are impressive and its night and day between him and Russell. I would actually argue a big reason the Nucks struggled was he was basically hurt the whole year. GA is a poor stat to quote. Flames were terrible GA team last year does that mean Brodie/Gio arn't good defenders?

 

Wideman's never been a good defender. he was servicable a few years ago but I think age/foot speed is making him below avg. Can live with it if hes putting up 40 plus points, but once he falls below that he gets really exposed. 

 

I am higher on Hickey then you then because I have him above both of those guys. YOu could argue mabye Kylington is higher for me but not Andersson. Either way i'm not high enough on Nichuskin either and am not solid on him being a true top 6 forward so that also jades my analysis on the price to get him. He reminds me alot of Magnus Svenson Pajjarvi both in juniors and in the pro and i see a similar career development path so far. 

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Wideman isn't a very good defender, Hartley system or not and never really has been. A few years ago he was a "servicable" defender but he's slowing down which means he is well below avg now. You can live with it if he's putting up 40 plus points. If that is your comparison then yes you are being "colored" because Hamhuis is a very solid dman and a legit top 4 guy when healthy. The downside is he is starting to get banged up alot. 1 player is not going to impact your GA and if that is your barometer then you can't really call Gio or Brodie good defneders either considering the Flames GAA was terrible and they were arguable the worst defensive team in the league. Lots of factors go into GAA so to blame it on 1 guy is a bit much, Hamhuis is a very good dman. 

 

I am higher on Hickey then you then because I have him above both of those guys. YOu could argue mabye Kylington is higher for me but not Andersson. Either way i'm not high enough on Nichuskin either and am not solid on him being a true top 6 forward so that also jades my analysis on the price to get him. He reminds me alot of Magnus Svenson Pajjarvi both in juniors and in the pro and i see a similar career development path so far. 

 

One of the big differences between CGY and VAN last year was goaltending.  .916 (2.7 GAA) and .915 (2.73 GAA) is a lot differennt from the horrorshow we had here in nets.  But your point about GA is true.  It's not an accurate barometer.  I just have never been that impressed with DH.  

 

I keep trying to see the good in Hickey's game.  He wasn't terrible in the WJC, but he also was on the ice for a lot of goals against and mistakes.  He didn't exactly follow it up with a good season end in the NCAA either.  

 

Really what I am intending is moving out some defensive depth for some forward depth.  Maybe Nichushkin isn't the right guy, but I think we have to be realistic that we have a viable top 3 D for the next 4-5 years and lots of 4/5/6/7 D in the pipeline.  Not all will get a chance to play here.  

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I think you are too blinded on Hamhuis, is still a very good defender with very good numbers to back that up. Not on the offensive side, but if you look at this posession stats they are impressive and its night and day between him and Russell. I would actually argue a big reason the Nucks struggled was he was basically hurt the whole year. GA is a poor stat to quote. Flames were terrible GA team last year does that mean Brodie/Gio arn't good defenders?

 

Wideman's never been a good defender. he was servicable a few years ago but I think age/foot speed is making him below avg. Can live with it if hes putting up 40 plus points, but once he falls below that he gets really exposed. 

 

I am higher on Hickey then you then because I have him above both of those guys. YOu could argue mabye Kylington is higher for me but not Andersson. Either way i'm not high enough on Nichuskin either and am not solid on him being a true top 6 forward so that also jades my analysis on the price to get him. He reminds me alot of Magnus Svenson Pajjarvi both in juniors and in the pro and i see a similar career development path so far. 

So if this is how you see him, why do you think the price to acquire would be so high ? We are still experimenting to a degree on RW hoping a few players pan out for us, adding Nichushkin to the mix wouldn't be so wrong at a good price. DAL was crazy enough to take Russell maybe we can hose them twice.

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So if this is how you see him, why do you think the price to acquire would be so high ? We are still experimenting to a degree on RW hoping a few players pan out for us, adding Nichushkin to the mix wouldn't be so wrong at a good price. DAL was crazy enough to take Russell maybe we can hose them twice.

 

Because that is only how I see it. There is no doubt in my mind that there are going to be multiple teams around the league that see value in getting a top 10 pick from just 3 years ago, there is some level of talent there and there is always someone who belives they can get something that no one else can. 

 

I also don't think i'm saying the price is that high, just that Wideman and Kulak is not a very good deal and I don't see why Dallas makes it. What I said is that was the best they coudl get why woudln't they just keep Nichushkin? 

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Because that is only how I see it. There is no doubt in my mind that there are going to be multiple teams around the league that see value in getting a top 10 pick from just 3 years ago, there is some level of talent there and there is always someone who belives they can get something that no one else can. 

 

I also don't think i'm saying the price is that high, just that Wideman and Kulak is not a very good deal and I don't see why Dallas makes it. What I said is that was the best they coudl get why woudln't they just keep Nichushkin? 

I suggested Wotherspoon in my scenario because I think he is finally ready to contribute at the NHL level. Maybe BT would have to include a 2nd round pick from 2018 draft. Who knows maybe he isn't what GG is looking for as a player. I know I get wrapped up on just ridding us of Wideman.

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I suggested Wotherspoon in my scenario because I think he is finally ready to contribute at the NHL level. Maybe BT would have to include a 2nd round pick from 2018 draft. Who knows maybe he isn't what GG is looking for as a player. I know I get wrapped up on just ridding us of Wideman.

At the end of the day I'm fine letting Wideman play out his contract.

I think we get caught up in finger pointing a bit too much.

Our D certainly isn't bad on paper and we also get caught up in the goalie debate.

Imho, I think our biggest problem that just keeps haunting us is being cohesive defensively, as a team, consistently.

I believe that's what all of GG's banter is pointing out, and he's right.

Elliot/Johnson tandem won't fair any better than Hiller/Ramo if we continue to scramble on D, as a team, not solely the dmen.

The forwards shoulder a lot of blame in that it takes a concerted effort and a coach that demands it and takes no prisoners.

Wideman won't make or break our results, and trading him however for whomever isn't a "fix" either.

So to discuss adding a Nichushkin likely does zero to address our biggest issue of having forwards that are responsible in their own end...first things first.

Another discussion was Hudler vs Frolik. I like both a lot. But the discussion isn't who puts up more points, but who will help give our team a greater balance.

That's where I have to side with Frolik. I don't think he works for JG and Mony because he plays opportunistic, which also means responsible. He plays high in the O zone 5-on-5. That's a good trait to me. 3 guys low = odd man rushes the other way.

Just my opinion, but we have to learn how to win 3-1 in our division.

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At the end of the day I'm fine letting Wideman play out his contract.

I think we get caught up in finger pointing a bit too much.

Our D certainly isn't bad on paper and we also get caught up in the goalie debate.

Imho, I think our biggest problem that just keeps haunting us is being cohesive defensively, as a team, consistently.

I believe that's what all of GG's banter is pointing out, and he's right.

Elliot/Johnson tandem won't fair any better than Hiller/Ramo if we continue to scramble on D, as a team, not solely the dmen.

The forwards shoulder a lot of blame in that it takes a concerted effort and a coach that demands it and takes no prisoners.

Wideman won't make or break our results, and trading him however for whomever isn't a "fix" either.

So to discuss adding a Nichushkin likely does zero to address our biggest issue of having forwards that are responsible in their own end...first things first.

Another discussion was Hudler vs Frolik. I like both a lot. But the discussion isn't who puts up more points, but who will help give our team a greater balance.

That's where I have to side with Frolik. I don't think he works for JG and Mony because he plays opportunistic, which also means responsible. He plays high in the O zone 5-on-5. That's a good trait to me. 3 guys low = odd man rushes the other way.

Just my opinion, but we have to learn how to win 3-1 in our division.

 

Limiting the score to 1 GA is impossible if you have goaltending like last year,  On average there was one really bad goal per games,

You can point to defensive responsibility (forward and defense) all you like but you have to eliminate the easy ones first.

 

Moving Wideman is more about positioning ourselves for the future.  Like Engelland, he is a serviceable D-man, but is not part of the future here.  We can keep both this season, but that leaves a big vacuum for next year.  I would prefer to move one or both out to see what we actually have in Wotherspoon and re-sign Nak.  Both had reasonable numbers in short stints.  That would give us balanced LD and RD, instead of having two RHS play in the same pairing.     

 

Maybe I am undervaluing them, but really how much better is Wideman-Engelland over Spoon-Nakladal?  Has Wideman outplayed Yokipakka enough to justify getting top 4 minutes?  If they are still here at main camp, pick the best 6 and gve the last spot to the guy that can come in on an occasional basis.

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At the end of the day I'm fine letting Wideman play out his contract.

I think we get caught up in finger pointing a bit too much.

Our D certainly isn't bad on paper and we also get caught up in the goalie debate.

Imho, I think our biggest problem that just keeps haunting us is being cohesive defensively, as a team, consistently.

I believe that's what all of GG's banter is pointing out, and he's right.

Elliot/Johnson tandem won't fair any better than Hiller/Ramo if we continue to scramble on D, as a team, not solely the dmen.

The forwards shoulder a lot of blame in that it takes a concerted effort and a coach that demands it and takes no prisoners.

Wideman won't make or break our results, and trading him however for whomever isn't a "fix" either.

So to discuss adding a Nichushkin likely does zero to address our biggest issue of having forwards that are responsible in their own end...first things first.

Another discussion was Hudler vs Frolik. I like both a lot. But the discussion isn't who puts up more points, but who will help give our team a greater balance.

That's where I have to side with Frolik. I don't think he works for JG and Mony because he plays opportunistic, which also means responsible. He plays high in the O zone 5-on-5. That's a good trait to me. 3 guys low = odd man rushes the other way.

Just my opinion, but we have to learn how to win 3-1 in our division.

It could very well end up that way, keeping Wideman however if there is a good hockey deal to be done I think you move him. We need additional RWs for the team and have plenty of defensemen coming in the pipeline. Nichushkin may not be what we are looking for but we should look as we have need. If you think Frolik doesn't match up with JG and SM maybe Nichushkin does.

There is another rumor circulating about Emelin MON for Yakapov from EDM or Nichushkin from DAL. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibilities of a Wideman with some retained salary being a good deal for Nichushkin.

 

In regards to the rest of your comments about our D collectively, we have better defenders than Wideman now and we have plenty of backend offense (we don't need him) and are likely a better team without him. Should Nichushkin click with JG and SM BONUS.

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It could very well end up that way, keeping Wideman however if there is a good hockey deal to be done I think you move him. We need additional RWs for the team and have plenty of defensemen coming in the pipeline. Nichushkin may not be what we are looking for but we should look as we have need. If you think Frolik doesn't match up with JG and SM maybe Nichushkin does.

There is another rumor circulating about Emelin MON for Yakapov from EDM or Nichushkin from DAL. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibilities of a Wideman with some retained salary being a good deal for Nichushkin.

 

In regards to the rest of your comments about our D collectively, we have better defenders than Wideman now and we have plenty of backend offense (we don't need him) and are likely a better team without him. Should Nichushkin click with JG and SM BONUS.

BT has already said he was pretty much done with the exception of maybe another depth D. That means he thinks he is ready to go ahead with what we have for forwards and Goalies and just about set on D.

 

There is a rumour that keeps popping back up(Fan960) that the team is going to bring Russell back. Just waiting for something to happen. (I assume that would be the SM & JH signings to see if they can afford his bottom line.

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BT has already said he was pretty much done with the exception of maybe another depth D. That means he thinks he is ready to go ahead with what we have for forwards and Goalies and just about set on D.

 

There is a rumour that keeps popping back up(Fan960) that the team is going to bring Russell back. Just waiting for something to happen. (I assume that would be the SM & JH signings to see if they can afford his bottom line.

This could prevail as well but as a GM he should always be exploring ways to better the team. Wideman for Nichushkin makes us better IMO. As TD said losing Wideman allows us to set up our defense with better personnel in the right spots. Russell at 2M would be fine with me but I heard MON is also looking at him. If they trade Emelin to EDM for Yakapov then they could use Russell. Lots could happen in the next few weeks.

 

Let me put it this way I would rather see Nichushkin with SM and JG than Chiasson, how about you ?

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This could prevail as well but as a GM he should always be exploring ways to better the team. Wideman for Nichushkin makes us better IMO. As TD said losing Wideman allows us to set up our defense with better personnel in the right spots. Russell at 2M would be fine with me but I heard MON is also looking at him. If they trade Emelin to EDM for Yakapov then they could use Russell. Lots could happen in the next few weeks.

 

Let me put it this way I would rather see Nichushkin with SM and JG than Chiasson, how about you ?

 

 

Who are you putting in the deal for Nichushkin? 

 

I don't think Wideman gets you him straight up, nor could we fleece Dallas again on a D trade. 

 

Would you trade Wideman and Yokipakka back to Dallas for Nichushkin? 

 

We get rid of a bad contract and bad fit for our team. I'd miss Yoki, and it would dismiss a good trade on our part. 

 

But essentially we could have it this way:

 

Giordano, Brodie

 xxx, Hamilton

Wotherspoon, Engelland

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Who are you putting in the deal for Nichushkin? 

 

I don't think Wideman gets you him straight up, nor could we fleece Dallas again on a D trade. 

 

Would you trade Wideman and Yokipakka back to Dallas for Nichushkin? 

 

We get rid of a bad contract and bad fit for our team. I'd miss Yoki, and it would dismiss a good trade on our part. 

 

But essentially we could have it this way:

 

Giordano, Brodie

 xxx, Hamilton

Wotherspoon, Engelland

 

Realistically you would need to offer a good prospect.  I suggested Hickey or Poirier.  It's still a bargain.  Maybe Nich isn't a great player or even have a top 6 ceiling, but he gives us some depth where we need it at the NHL level.

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Realistically you would need to offer a good prospect.  I suggested Hickey or Poirier.  It's still a bargain.  Maybe Nich isn't a great player or even have a top 6 ceiling, but he gives us some depth where we need it at the NHL level.

If they would accept Poirier I would use him with Wideman. Isn't Hickey finishing up his last University year ? I wouldn't be giving up on him just yet. You pick up Nichushkin on the hope he is going to pan out better than Poirier, which he could if not only because he has experience over him. I like that he is bigger and a RHS-RW to work with in a position of need for us.

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If they would accept Poirier I would use him with Wideman. Isn't Hickey finishing up his last University year ? I wouldn't be giving up on him just yet. You pick up Nichushkin on the hope he is going to pan out better than Poirier, which he could if not only because he has experience over him. I like that he is bigger and a RHS-RW to work with in a position of need for us.

 

I look at it from a position of need.  We have lots of LHS D propects.  We don't have a lot of RW prospects.

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If they would accept Poirier I would use him with Wideman. Isn't Hickey finishing up his last University year ? I wouldn't be giving up on him just yet. You pick up Nichushkin on the hope he is going to pan out better than Poirier, which he could if not only because he has experience over him. I like that he is bigger and a RHS-RW to work with in a position of need for us.

 

Sure, except Nichushkin is a LHS RW.

 

I've really given up on Poirier especially with Frolik and Brouwer locked up long term in that 2nd/3rd line role.  If Poirier has any trade value, then i think we should move him.

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Sure, except Nichushkin is a LHS RW.

 

I've really given up on Poirier especially with Frolik and Brouwer locked up long term in that 2nd/3rd line role.  If Poirier has any trade value, then i think we should move him.

Poirier is getting to that point.  This is likely his last chance this year.  I'm thinking if he doesn't impress in TC he might get moved in a package, with Montreal being the likely candidate....

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