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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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Good stuff to know, I admitted not having seen enough of him so have not formed to much of an opinion. One thing I will say is you only get so many chances and I have to believe GG has seen something in Chiasson enough to bring him in. Where they use him will remain to be seen. The only reason I have him with JG and SM is twofold, first I think both Brouwer and Frolik can better help the team playing elsewhere. Secondly they are now established enough themselves to be able to bring someone with some potential and NHL level experience along with them. We could catch lightning in a bottle or we could have trial and error.

 

I have a good feeling about Chiasson as well, i won't lie.  When we look at the Sens, Chiasson got stuck behind Mark Stone and Bobby Ryan on RW.  These are two players who would bump Frolik and Brouwer off the top two lines instantly.  That, and sometimes Chris Neil gets 3rd line RW minutes depending on match-up, and it's no wonder why Chiasson found himself on the 4th line often and not given scoring opportunities.

 

That, plus GG's history with him in his early years.  Chiasson was trending into a 25 goal scoring power forward who, before reaching his potential, became the center piece in a trade for Jason Spezza.  This very well could be the perfect storm for him.  He comes to a team starving for a top line RW and a coach who has trusted him before in a scoring role.  

 

Understandably, the downsides are there.  Dave Cameron had him in Ottawa and couldn't develop him further.  Now Cameron is our assistant coach.

 

I do think given the right circumstances, Chiasson can be a 20-goal, 45-point guy.  We're talking Joe Colborne numbers from last season. If he sticks on the top line for any extended period of time, then perhaps 55-points is a good guess.  I just hope he comes into camp a bit quicker and hungry to establish himself on this team.

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I have a good feeling about Chiasson as well, i won't lie.  When we look at the Sens, Chiasson got stuck behind Mark Stone and Bobby Ryan on RW.  These are two players who would bump Frolik and Brouwer off the top two lines instantly.  That, and sometimes Chris Neil gets 3rd line RW minutes depending on match-up, and it's no wonder why Chiasson found himself on the 4th line often and not given scoring opportunities.

 

That, plus GG's history with him in his early years.  Chiasson was trending into a 25 goal scoring power forward who, before reaching his potential, became the center piece in a trade for Jason Spezza.  This very well could be the perfect storm for him.  He comes to a team starving for a top line RW and a coach who has trusted him before in a scoring role.  

 

Understandably, the downsides are there.  Dave Cameron had him in Ottawa and couldn't develop him further.  Now Cameron is our assistant coach.

 

I do think given the right circumstances, Chiasson can be a 20-goal, 45-point guy.  We're talking Joe Colborne numbers from last season. If he sticks on the top line for any extended period of time, then perhaps 55-points is a good guess.  I just hope he comes into camp a bit quicker and hungry to establish himself on this team.

 

I get a little concerned about talking about a player in the same breath as Colborne.  Both players were caused a devisive response from their fan base.  If the two players are similar in the way they play, then that doesn't solve the top line problem.  Doesn't mean he can't do well elsewhere in the lineup.

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I get a little concerned about talking about a player in the same breath as Colborne.  Both players were caused a devisive response from their fan base.  If the two players are similar in the way they play, then that doesn't solve the top line problem.  Doesn't mean he can't do well elsewhere in the lineup.

Everyone here would of kept Colborne at 800K. Obviously the team is taking a chance on Chiasson fitting in somewhere.

I have a good feeling about Chiasson as well, i won't lie.  When we look at the Sens, Chiasson got stuck behind Mark Stone and Bobby Ryan on RW.  These are two players who would bump Frolik and Brouwer off the top two lines instantly.  That, and sometimes Chris Neil gets 3rd line RW minutes depending on match-up, and it's no wonder why Chiasson found himself on the 4th line often and not given scoring opportunities.

 

That, plus GG's history with him in his early years.  Chiasson was trending into a 25 goal scoring power forward who, before reaching his potential, became the center piece in a trade for Jason Spezza.  This very well could be the perfect storm for him.  He comes to a team starving for a top line RW and a coach who has trusted him before in a scoring role.  

 

Understandably, the downsides are there.  Dave Cameron had him in Ottawa and couldn't develop him further.  Now Cameron is our assistant coach.

 

I do think given the right circumstances, Chiasson can be a 20-goal, 45-point guy.  We're talking Joe Colborne numbers from last season. If he sticks on the top line for any extended period of time, then perhaps 55-points is a good guess.  I just hope he comes into camp a bit quicker and hungry to establish himself on this team.

Chiasson could work or he becomes a short experiment. You mentioned he wasn't strong defensively and I hope this has changed to some degree or I don't see him lasting here.

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I would take Jimmy Hayes over Wideman and it wouldn't take me a second to think over it.

Either Wideman is taking away minutes from the guys with a future here, or more likely he is a grumpy vet on the third pairing or bench that isn't playing well. Either way I take the young cheaper depth forward with size and a RH shot.

Wideman could turn it around. But he is a terrible fit in Calgary as he is completely redundant.

 

Problem is, so is Jimmy Hayes. If Hayes winds up on your 3rd/4th line (which IMO is exactly what would happen) how happy is he going to be? And you have another full year to deal with it at a pretty good sized cap hit. 

I have a good feeling about Chiasson as well, i won't lie.  When we look at the Sens, Chiasson got stuck behind Mark Stone and Bobby Ryan on RW.  These are two players who would bump Frolik and Brouwer off the top two lines instantly.  That, and sometimes Chris Neil gets 3rd line RW minutes depending on match-up, and it's no wonder why Chiasson found himself on the 4th line often and not given scoring opportunities.

 

That, plus GG's history with him in his early years.  Chiasson was trending into a 25 goal scoring power forward who, before reaching his potential, became the center piece in a trade for Jason Spezza.  This very well could be the perfect storm for him.  He comes to a team starving for a top line RW and a coach who has trusted him before in a scoring role.  

 

Understandably, the downsides are there.  Dave Cameron had him in Ottawa and couldn't develop him further.  Now Cameron is our assistant coach.

 

I do think given the right circumstances, Chiasson can be a 20-goal, 45-point guy.  We're talking Joe Colborne numbers from last season. If he sticks on the top line for any extended period of time, then perhaps 55-points is a good guess.  I just hope he comes into camp a bit quicker and hungry to establish himself on this team.

 

for me, I still start Chiasson on the top line in training camp. Someone could easily take the job from him, but that is how I am starting it. Chiasson has been effective in the past when placed in favorable situations offensivly and I like the skill set he brings to that line. IMO, Johnny/Mony need someone with a big body who can help them cycle down low and go to the net and when he's played well, thats exactly what Chiasson has done. 

 

The upside is there but he will have to work on his defensive game becuase the downside to Johnny-Mony- Chiasson is that line is a huge liablity defensivly, especially on the road where they won't get their matchups. 

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I get a little concerned about talking about a player in the same breath as Colborne. Both players were caused a devisive response from their fan base. If the two players are similar in the way they play, then that doesn't solve the top line problem. Doesn't mean he can't do well elsewhere in the lineup.

Oh I only meant Colborne's numbers, not that they play the same game. Colborne never put up 30 points in the NHL until he broke out with 44 last season. This kind of what we can expect of Chiasson.

From shift to shift, Chiasson may be more Brandon Bollig than Colborne except Chiasson has some offensive tools and fights less.

Everyone here would of kept Colborne at 800K. Obviously the team is taking a chance on Chiasson fitting in somewhere.

Chiasson could work or he becomes a short experiment. You mentioned he wasn't strong defensively and I hope this has changed to some degree or I don't see him lasting here.

Ya totally, at 800k i don't mind getting Colborne back. Instead, Chiasson is RHS RW and is a more natural fit positionally, better offensive tools, and worked well under GG in the past.

for me, I still start Chiasson on the top line in training camp. Someone could easily take the job from him, but that is how I am starting it. Chiasson has been effective in the past when placed in favorable situations offensivly and I like the skill set he brings to that line. IMO, Johnny/Mony need someone with a big body who can help them cycle down low and go to the net and when he's played well, thats exactly what Chiasson has done.

The upside is there but he will have to work on his defensive game becuase the downside to Johnny-Mony- Chiasson is that line is a huge liablity defensivly, especially on the road where they won't get their matchups.

Well that seals it for me. If cross agrees, then I'm validated :)

Yes, I would start Chiasson on the top line as well and wouldn't hesitate there. After all, I firmly believe a first line should get some leeway to gamble and take offensive chances. The best place for Chiasson to succeed is in this type of situation.

I can see it work and I can see it fail. Chiasson doesn't have the foot speed to keep up but it's worth a shot. Every argument for "sheltering" Tkachuk on the top line should apply to just about everyone else who could keep up offensively. Chiasson does have the hands to keep up and the size that we covet, so I would start him there.

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I can see it work and I can see it fail. Chiasson doesn't have the foot speed to keep up but it's worth a shot. Every argument for "sheltering" Tkachuk on the top line should apply to just about everyone else who could keep up offensively. Chiasson does have the hands to keep up and the size that we covet, so I would start him there.

 

Agreed, it is an experiment and they have enough options to experiment further if it doesn't work, whether it be Tkachuk, Ferland, Shinkaruk, even Brouwer, they have options. I get people don't love the idea of experimenting so much but I personally do. IMO, the Flames taking a step further this year isn't tied to their top line its tied to how much can they improve defensivly and can they get an effective 2nd and 3rd lines. Getting a legit top line is almost a bonus. 

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...

I can see it work and I can see it fail. Chiasson doesn't have the foot speed to keep up but it's worth a shot. Every argument for "sheltering" Tkachuk on the top line should apply to just about everyone else who could keep up offensively. Chiasson does have the hands to keep up and the size that we covet, so I would start him there.

 

Chiasson has performed well playing against lesser competition or with decent ice time on the PP.  He has also played well on the PK.  He may fit with Johnny/Monahan, but we are basically a one-line team right now.  Is the risk too big to give much rope to Chiasson on the top line?

 

Since we are talking about trade suggestions, we have to look at Wideman, Smid and Matty as being essential to move.  We have less cap today than yesterday due to bonus from last year, so no flexibility right now to keep all of the above.  And we have to realistically look at any other positions/players that could be moved out - Bollig, Bouma and Engelland.  

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Chiasson has performed well playing against lesser competition or with decent ice time on the PP.  He has also played well on the PK.  He may fit with Johnny/Monahan, but we are basically a one-line team right now.  Is the risk too big to give much rope to Chiasson on the top line?

 

Since we are talking about trade suggestions, we have to look at Wideman, Smid and Matty as being essential to move.  We have less cap today than yesterday due to bonus from last year, so no flexibility right now to keep all of the above.  And we have to realistically look at any other positions/players that could be moved out - Bollig, Bouma and Engelland.  

I don't think we can assume we have only one line of scoring until we see what the lines actually are as season starts. As you point out this bonus situation we may see a move or two yet before the season starts. If BT could find new homes for Wideman and Bollig before opening day for a low cost prospect or picks would be good.

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600K doesn't really change much. Still have just shy 8 Mill cap room and Johnny isnt' getting that number from the Flames so there will be room left over. That number also includes 21 without Johnny so 22 with him and I think very likely they gain another 700-1 mill in room by sending someone to the A. All in all I would project the Flames to likely sit with over 1 mill in cap room and that doesnt' include any potetnial relief they may get with Smid should he be an LTIR candidate. 

 

Obviously if you can move them great but not essentially. Not to the point where they need to either give them away or start using assets of their own to move them becuase if you want to talk about trading guys like Stajan, Bolig and even Wideman I think you are likely needing to attach assets in order to move them which isn't smart IMO. 

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I don't think we can assume we have only one line of scoring until we see what the lines actually are as season starts. As you point out this bonus situation we may see a move or two yet before the season starts. If BT could find new homes for Wideman and Bollig before opening day for a low cost prospect or picks would be good.

Ya, I'm just talking about what we had last season.  The other lines have to take big steps.  Adding Brouwer and Chiasson may help.

I'm just not sold on the current roster.  

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Ya, I'm just talking about what we had last season.  The other lines have to take big steps.  Adding Brouwer and Chiasson may help.

I'm just not sold on the current roster.  

You make some good points and perhaps we will have to endure some scrimping if our cap is as tight as you say. Healthy players out of the chute could help as it did in the 2014/15 season. A healthy group of defensemen served us well that season and could be what we need again this season. A healthy Backlund and Frolik could do wonders for us as well. Even a healthy Stajan could help the situation. Progression from players such as Bennett, Ferland, Chiasson, Shinkaruk, Poirier and Pribyl would help immensely as the get their opportunities. I don't expect much from Hathaway, Hamilton,Vey or Bollig.

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The cap depends on a lot of things:

 

Whether Vey and Chiasson make the team out of camp (at least one is likely)

Whether Shinkaruk makes the team

Whether they sign Freddie to a two-way deal and whether he makes the team

Whether Tkachuk makes the team

Whether they keep the existing 7D signed.

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Problem is, so is Jimmy Hayes. If Hayes winds up on your 3rd/4th line (which IMO is exactly what would happen) how happy is he going to be? And you have another full year to deal with it at a pretty good sized cap hit.

We have plenty of room for a third line RW with size. Which is what he is. It's how he is paid. Much better fit then Wideman.

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We have plenty of room for a third line RW with size. Which is what he is. It's how he is paid. Much better fit then Wideman.

Does he fit with Bennett or Backlund? Bennett could be viewed as the 3rd liner. Backlund is viewed as the future 3rd liner. Or do we just need someone to fit the line/players they're playing with.

If it is Hayes you're talking about, I don't know much about him.

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Does he fit with Bennett or Backlund? Bennett could be viewed as the 3rd liner. Backlund is viewed as the future 3rd liner. Or do we just need someone to fit the line/players they're playing with.

If it is Hayes you're talking about, I don't know much about him.

I wouldn't give up value for Hayes. But if I can get rid of a 5 million dollar guy who is a third pairing D on this team (and a poor fit even St thst) I do it.

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Agreed, it is an experiment and they have enough options to experiment further if it doesn't work, whether it be Tkachuk, Ferland, Shinkaruk, even Brouwer, they have options. I get people don't love the idea of experimenting so much but I personally do. IMO, the Flames taking a step further this year isn't tied to their top line its tied to how much can they improve defensivly and can they get an effective 2nd and 3rd lines. Getting a legit top line is almost a bonus. 

Chiasson has performed well playing against lesser competition or with decent ice time on the PP.  He has also played well on the PK.  He may fit with Johnny/Monahan, but we are basically a one-line team right now.  Is the risk too big to give much rope to Chiasson on the top line?

 

Since we are talking about trade suggestions, we have to look at Wideman, Smid and Matty as being essential to move.  We have less cap today than yesterday due to bonus from last year, so no flexibility right now to keep all of the above.  And we have to realistically look at any other positions/players that could be moved out - Bollig, Bouma and Engelland.  

I don't think we can assume we have only one line of scoring until we see what the lines actually are as season starts. As you point out this bonus situation we may see a move or two yet before the season starts. If BT could find new homes for Wideman and Bollig before opening day for a low cost prospect or picks would be good.

 

All this talk about a one line team, i think we can all agree we aren't going to get anywhere if we are a one line team, which we have to admit, we were last season.

 

I want to experiment too but i'm more extreme because i'm willing to experiment with Monahan and Gaudreau on separate lines.  At some point, we should and probably, need to try.  It doesn't even matter if Guadreau and Monahan are firing on all cylinders together.  Our fate lays in the balance of our 2nd,3rd, and even 4th lines.  It's a balanced league now with lots of parity.  If our 2nd/3rd lines can't compete with others, then the 1st line is all for not.

 

We may have no choice but to split up the two and experiment to see if other players catch fire with someone else.  We may have to move players to the off-wing, or Centers to wing, etc.  Leave no stone unturned. 

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All this talk about a one line team, i think we can all agree we aren't going to get anywhere if we are a one line team, which we have to admit, we were last season.

 

I want to experiment too but i'm more extreme because i'm willing to experiment with Monahan and Gaudreau on separate lines.  At some point, we should and probably, need to try.  It doesn't even matter if Guadreau and Monahan are firing on all cylinders together.  Our fate lays in the balance of our 2nd,3rd, and even 4th lines.  It's a balanced league now with lots of parity.  If our 2nd/3rd lines can't compete with others, then the 1st line is all for not.

 

We may have no choice but to split up the two and experiment to see if other players catch fire with someone else.  We may have to move players to the off-wing, or Centers to wing, etc.  Leave no stone unturned. 

 

There is one thing we agree on; we are not going to get anywhere  with a top line only.  How we improve is where we differ.  We know that Backlund plays a good defensive game with Frolik, but the offensive number aren't there to be a 2nd scoring line.  Same with Bennett and whomever.  I like Brouwer, but he isn't going to turn Bennett into a 30 goal guy.  He needs a dynamic LW.  Same goes for Backlund.  And don't even get me started about the 4th line.  :)

 

There are players out there that could help, and we are going to have to give up prospects to get them.  Sure we can hope that a few reclamation projects might capture the magic.  Or we can use some of our defensive depth prospects in trade.  May have to include a pick, but we collecting prospects without cycling them into the lineup.  Time to move Wideman and Engelland and Stajan for whatever we can get.  Add in a D prospect or 2.  

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We have plenty of room for a third line RW with size. Which is what he is. It's how he is paid. Much better fit then Wideman.

Size, but softer then a pillow. For me there is no room for that especially at that salary. My opinion anyway. If he had some grit I'd be all over it, but he doesn't have any.

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There is one thing we agree on; we are not going to get anywhere  with a top line only.  How we improve is where we differ.  We know that Backlund plays a good defensive game with Frolik, but the offensive number aren't there to be a 2nd scoring line.  Same with Bennett and whomever.  I like Brouwer, but he isn't going to turn Bennett into a 30 goal guy.  He needs a dynamic LW.  Same goes for Backlund.  And don't even get me started about the 4th line.   :)

 

There are players out there that could help, and we are going to have to give up prospects to get them.  Sure we can hope that a few reclamation projects might capture the magic.  Or we can use some of our defensive depth prospects in trade.  May have to include a pick, but we collecting prospects without cycling them into the lineup.  Time to move Wideman and Engelland and Stajan for whatever we can get.  Add in a D prospect or 2.  

 

You know, it might even have to be something like,

 

Bennett - Monahan - Brouwer

Gaudreau - Backlund - Frolik

Ferland - Jankowski - Chiasson

Bouma - Stajan - Vey

 

We need two legit scoring lines, otherwise, it's going to be a long season again.

 

I predict the Kings will take a few steps back this season. They have some cap problems and underacheiving/aging vets like Brown and Gaborik.  They lost Lucic over the summer and couldn't replace him due to Kopitar's raise.  I feel Carter is on a slow decline and Toffoli is a bit overrated.  After that, a very boring class of players round out the depth on forward and D.  They are a team that the Flames can overtake and challenge for a playoff spot but first, the Flames need secondary scoring from their depth forwards.  Otherwise, we're trade deadline sellers again.

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All this talk about a one line team, i think we can all agree we aren't going to get anywhere if we are a one line team, which we have to admit, we were last season.

I want to experiment too but i'm more extreme because i'm willing to experiment with Monahan and Gaudreau on separate lines. At some point, we should and probably, need to try. It doesn't even matter if Guadreau and Monahan are firing on all cylinders together. Our fate lays in the balance of our 2nd,3rd, and even 4th lines. It's a balanced league now with lots of parity. If our 2nd/3rd lines can't compete with others, then the 1st line is all for not.

We may have no choice but to split up the two and experiment to see if other players catch fire with someone else. We may have to move players to the off-wing, or Centers to wing, etc. Leave no stone unturned.

The Flames weren't a one line team last year. They got strong production from the Backlund line as well.

I agree they need to improve. But you don't do that by splitting up your best pair. You do it by adding better players to the roster.

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The People,

If we are moving centres To the wing this year, for me, it isn't Bennett. I would move Backlund or Stajan over Bennett. In fact, I don't think Stajan is a good C anymore.

If it were Backlund, he could mentor Bennett by playing on his wing. I still like Backlund as a C though.

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All this talk about a one line team, i think we can all agree we aren't going to get anywhere if we are a one line team, which we have to admit, we were last season.

 

I want to experiment too but i'm more extreme because i'm willing to experiment with Monahan and Gaudreau on separate lines.  At some point, we should and probably, need to try.  It doesn't even matter if Guadreau and Monahan are firing on all cylinders together.  Our fate lays in the balance of our 2nd,3rd, and even 4th lines.  It's a balanced league now with lots of parity.  If our 2nd/3rd lines can't compete with others, then the 1st line is all for not.

 

We may have no choice but to split up the two and experiment to see if other players catch fire with someone else.  We may have to move players to the off-wing, or Centers to wing, etc.  Leave no stone unturned. 

What makes you say our 2nd and 3rd lines are no good ? Also many have said JG and SM will get their points regardless of who plays with them. It will be a matter of how the player with them contributes and we don't know that yet.

A line of say ferland, Backlund and Frolik should be a very good line both for defensive responsibilities and some secondary scoring.

A line of say Tkachuk or Shinkaruk, Bennett and Brouwer should be a good line with some work and leadership from Brouwer.

Our 4th line will also feature some solid experience with Bouma, Stajan and whoever on RW.

 

I don't see all this concern from you being justified. We have a great starting point and some prospects coming hard that should get some opportunity this season.

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There is one thing we agree on; we are not going to get anywhere  with a top line only.  How we improve is where we differ.  We know that Backlund plays a good defensive game with Frolik, but the offensive number aren't there to be a 2nd scoring line.  Same with Bennett and whomever.  I like Brouwer, but he isn't going to turn Bennett into a 30 goal guy.  He needs a dynamic LW.  Same goes for Backlund.  And don't even get me started about the 4th line.   :)

 

There are players out there that could help, and we are going to have to give up prospects to get them.  Sure we can hope that a few reclamation projects might capture the magic.  Or we can use some of our defensive depth prospects in trade.  May have to include a pick, but we collecting prospects without cycling them into the lineup.  Time to move Wideman and Engelland and Stajan for whatever we can get.  Add in a D prospect or 2.  

What is your rush ? maybe it isn't time yet to move out Wideman, Stajan or Engelland, you can't force these situations. Out of the 3 mentioned I could see BT trying every trick in the book to unload Wideman but he needs a dance partner. We are stuck with Stajan and he is still useful. Engelland has 1 year and seems to be a defenseman GG knows and likes so I think he stays.

Here is my prediction, if Wideman isn't moved between now and the start of the season, he will be here until the TDL playing on our 2nd pairing.

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I really like the idea of playing Ferland with Backlund and Frolik.  I think he'd add a physical dimension to that line, and maybe the others could boost his scoring numbers.

 

I'd also like to see Bennett get some decent wingers.  I'm not completely on board with Tkachuk playing in the NHL this year, but I think he and Bennett would be fun to watch. 

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We have plenty of room for a third line RW with size. Which is what he is. It's how he is paid. Much better fit then Wideman.

Do we ? I see quite a few RW players within our own system not to mention immediate guys such as Chiasson and Pribyl. If BT is able to find a deal for Wideman I think it should be for a prospect or picks so we don't take on salary.

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