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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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Yesterday we were in budget hell and today you want to spend like a sailor.  Are you in government?

 

Obviously, the priority is to sign JG.   It'd be nice to sign Nakladal, but I don't think it's critical.  Beyond that, it seems like it might be prudent to spent wisely rather than incur cap penalties next year.  There's every possibility that the players who earned bonuses last season will do so again in the coming season.

 

In my opinion, this team is going to flirt with a wild card spot but may very well be a lottery team again.  I don't think this is the time to push all of the chips into the middle of the table.  Better to do the best we can with what we've got this year, with the understanding that next year Treliving will have the breathing room to make some bold moves. 

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Smid gives you wiggle room, but he doesn't really give you cap. Unlike actual cap space the LTIR doesn't continue to accrue over the season so that hurts our ability to pick up a rental at the deadline. Plus we have to be compliant for the start of the season before he is on the LTIR.

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14 hours ago, kehatch said:

Smid gives you wiggle room, but he doesn't really give you cap. Unlike actual cap space the LTIR doesn't continue to accrue over the season so that hurts our ability to pick up a rental at the deadline. Plus we have to be compliant for the start of the season before he is on the LTIR.

Well, we could assign guys like Bollig (keep Hammy), Vey, etc. to get below the cap, if we ended up signing a few guys extra.  I admit, the LTIR process confuses me, when it comes to people unable to attend training camp.  I though you could actually place them on LTIR right out of camp, avoiding having to be compliant day 1 of the season.  Seems to be conflicting info on the subject.

There is definitely some strategy involved in when you place a gut on IR.  Eliminating some guys early on makes sense, such as demoting Bollig ($950k savings) or replacing him with a guy like Hamilton, saving a couple hundred grand.  No doubt BT would like to trade some of the more expensive guy as early as possible.  

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4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Well, we could assign guys like Bollig (keep Hammy), Vey, etc. to get below the cap, if we ended up signing a few guys extra.  I admit, the LTIR process confuses me, when it comes to people unable to attend training camp.  I though you could actually place them on LTIR right out of camp, avoiding having to be compliant day 1 of the season.  Seems to be conflicting info on the subject.

There is definitely some strategy involved in when you place a gut on IR.  Eliminating some guys early on makes sense, such as demoting Bollig ($950k savings) or replacing him with a guy like Hamilton, saving a couple hundred grand.  No doubt BT would like to trade some of the more expensive guy as early as possible.  

You can, it jsut depends on what type of releif you are after and if you are already over the cap over not. If you are over the cap already and can't get undre without LTIR you need to put them on there earlier. If you are under the cap and want the exemption past it then you wait until day 1.

However, in Flames case it doesn't make sense to use LTIR unless Johnny is signed. LTIR is only good if you are cloese to the Salary cap. If you are 7mill under it, like they are now, its of no benefit to you as they subtract how much cap room you have from the players salary to determine how much LTIR exemption space you get. 

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So Jacob Trouba has confirmed long standing rumors he wants a trade and has officially requested one. Wants to play right side. 

I have doubts the flames could make a deal as im sure Jets wants a young Dman in return but I hope the flames would be in on this. 

Gio-Trouba

Brodie - Hamilton. 

Would be an unreal D core. Provided Trouba doesn't need anything over 5 mill in salary. I just don't see a reasonable deal flames could offer that would interest Jets. Not unless they are high on Jokipakka or something. 

 

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2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

So Jacob Trouba has confirmed long standing rumors he wants a trade and has officially requested one. Wants to play right side. 

I have doubts the flames could make a deal as im sure Jets wants a young Dman in return but I hope the flames would be in on this. 

Gio-Trouba

Brodie - Hamilton. 

Would be an unreal D core. Provided Trouba doesn't need anything over 5 mill in salary. I just don't see a reasonable deal flames could offer that would interest Jets. Not unless they are high on Jokipakka or something. 

 

I think you have to make a pitch for that.  AT least he would get the bigger role he wants.  I just don't see a fit for a swap.  I would start with a 1st and Jokipakka.  They don't need another RHS in return so much.  If anything, the Jets GM knows a bit about Jokipakka.  Would rather make the pitch than see him go to EDM.  Willing to add prospects to the deal.

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

So Jacob Trouba has confirmed long standing rumors he wants a trade and has officially requested one. Wants to play right side. 

I have doubts the flames could make a deal as im sure Jets wants a young Dman in return but I hope the flames would be in on this. 

Gio-Trouba

Brodie - Hamilton. 

Would be an unreal D core. Provided Trouba doesn't need anything over 5 mill in salary. I just don't see a reasonable deal flames could offer that would interest Jets. Not unless they are high on Jokipakka or something. 

 

Basically, agreed.  Worth going for.  What I like about Trouba, is that he's a true defencemen.  Yes, he has offensive skills which make him elite, but he also DEFENDS.

A couple minor points:  

1.  I don't think we can claim it would be an "unreal" D core.  I think it would be an upgrade over the one that just finished last in the league for goals against.   But, All the more reason to bring him in.

2.  The fact that he is asking for a trade is an instant deterrent.  Yes, it makes him more relevant on this thread due to the odds, but no, it doesn't make him more appealing in any way.   The Flames would want to have a sense of why he's asking for a trade, how that affects his value, and whether it makes sense to bring him in.    But assuming they can live with it, Yes, great idea do bolster the D.

 

Bottom line, Yes.   I hope the Flames look into it.

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53 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Basically, agreed.  Worth going for.  What I like about Trouba, is that he's a true defencemen.  Yes, he has offensive skills which make him elite, but he also DEFENDS.

A couple minor points:  

1.  I don't think we can claim it would be an "unreal" D core.  I think it would be an upgrade over the one that just finished last in the league for goals against.   But, All the more reason to bring him in.

2.  The fact that he is asking for a trade is an instant deterrent.  Yes, it makes him more relevant on this thread due to the odds, but no, it doesn't make him more appealing in any way.   The Flames would want to have a sense of why he's asking for a trade, how that affects his value, and whether it makes sense to bring him in.    But assuming they can live with it, Yes, great idea do bolster the D.

 

Bottom line, Yes.   I hope the Flames look into it.

He has talked about it, as did his agent.  He wants to play RD on a second pairing.  Look at his partner.  That's like playing with Russell and posting a terrible +-. Could we use him?  Yes.  

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Why don't the Jets just announce they will start Byfuglien on RW and Trouba will be 2nd pair RD?

In terms of trading for Trouba, it seems obvious the Jets would seek a LD in return to balance out their top 4 but there's no way the Flames are parting ways with Giordano or Brodie for Trouba.  I don't believe Kevin is viewed as a top 4 by anyone just yet.  Would the Jets be interested in a long term project like Oliver Kylington?  Outside of that, I don't think the Flames are a good trade partner with the Jets because the Flames also want to trade Wideman, a RD.

Then again, i've got to think Josh Morrissey, a LHS LD 21-years-old will start the season on the Jets this season.

Would the Jets be interested in getting Frolik back?  Or has the bridges been burned?

If i was the Jets i would try to get a young Center in return, maybe a Sean Couturier level/type.  Also, maybe a Darnell Nurse for Trouba makes sense for both teams.

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Trouba needs to be protected in the expansion draft. Which means we would need to move one of Giordano, Brodie, or Hamilton before then, possibly in the trade for him. I don't like him better than Hamilton or Brodie and I can't see the Flames moving Giordano.

I don't see a fit with Calgary personally. 

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5 minutes ago, kehatch said:

Trouba needs to be protected in the expansion draft. Which means we would need to move one of Giordano, Brodie, or Hamilton before then, possibly in the trade for him. I don't like him better than Hamilton or Brodie and I can't see the Flames moving Giordano.

I don't see a fit with Calgary personally. 

Same. And we can't carry on being the most expensive D in the league.

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10 hours ago, kehatch said:

Trouba needs to be protected in the expansion draft. Which means we would need to move one of Giordano, Brodie, or Hamilton before then, possibly in the trade for him. I don't like him better than Hamilton or Brodie and I can't see the Flames moving Giordano.

I don't see a fit with Calgary personally. 

Just a question surrounding a protected list for expansion, what happens if we leave both Elliott and Johnson off of contracts leaving them as UFAs ? Could we then protect 4 defensemen and the forwards we want to cover ?

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16 hours ago, cross16 said:

So Jacob Trouba has confirmed long standing rumors he wants a trade and has officially requested one. Wants to play right side. 

I have doubts the flames could make a deal as im sure Jets wants a young Dman in return but I hope the flames would be in on this. 

Gio-Trouba

Brodie - Hamilton. 

Would be an unreal D core. Provided Trouba doesn't need anything over 5 mill in salary. I just don't see a reasonable deal flames could offer that would interest Jets. Not unless they are high on Jokipakka or something. 

 

Obtaining Trouba would be great but I think BT would definitely have to find a new home for Wideman. I don't think WPG wants him. What does WPG lack either with their current roster or system wise ? We may not match up.

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1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Just a question surrounding a protected list for expansion, what happens if we leave both Elliott and Johnson off of contracts leaving them as UFAs ? Could we then protect 4 defensemen and the forwards we want to cover ?

Have to expose at least one goalie.  No way around that.  You can go with 8 skaters.  Use the generalfanager.com expansion tool.  If you went with 4 D, that would mean you could only protect JH, SM, SB and Backlund.  Leaves Brouwer, Frolik, Ferland, Shinkaruk, Poirier, Stajan, Bouma out there.

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55 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Have to expose at least one goalie.  No way around that.  You can go with 8 skaters.  Use the generalfanager.com expansion tool.  If you went with 4 D, that would mean you could only protect JH, SM, SB and Backlund.  Leaves Brouwer, Frolik, Ferland, Shinkaruk, Poirier, Stajan, Bouma out there.

Eeeerrrr...Do we care? 

They Gonna take someone.  That's gonna happen.   I honestly don't see anyone in that list that terrifies me.   These aren't core players.  Likely never will be.   The closest might be Frolik, and with the last two years of his salary, it Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world losing him into his 30's.

At first I thought yeah, we can't protect 4 D.  But when you lay it out like that.... (keeping in mind they may not all even be here if we trade for Trouba).

 

Thought #2.   Several posts above skirt around the impossibility of involving Giordano in a trade.  And skirt around the obvious advantages, like age, salary, relevancy to Winnipeg, etc.   Nothing's impossible.

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29 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Eeeerrrr...Do we care? 

They Gonna take someone.  That's gonna happen.   I honestly don't see anyone in that list that terrifies me.   These aren't core players.  Likely never will be.   The closest might be Frolik, and with the last two years of his salary, it Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world losing him into his 30's.

At first I thought yeah, we can't protect 4 D.  But when you lay it out like that.... (keeping in mind they may not all even be here if we trade for Trouba).

 

Thought #2.   Several posts above skirt around the impossibility of involving Giordano in a trade.  And skirt around the obvious advantages, like age, salary, relevancy to Winnipeg, etc.   Nothing's impossible.

Obviously, Gio would be the only one we would even possibly look at trading for Trouba.  It doesn't make us any deeper.  It would still result in only needing to protect 3D.

If you went 4 and 4, then Brouwer, Frolik and Shinkaruk would be the most likely picked.  If we re-sign both goalies, then maybe the one not protected would be picked.  It would be a burn to lose either Frolik or Brouwer if they ended up being real difference makers this season.  Same goes for Ferland and Shinkaruk.  

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Have to expose at least one goalie.  No way around that.  You can go with 8 skaters.  Use the generalfanager.com expansion tool.  If you went with 4 D, that would mean you could only protect JH, SM, SB and Backlund.  Leaves Brouwer, Frolik, Ferland, Shinkaruk, Poirier, Stajan, Bouma out there.

Does the selecting team have to take any players from us ?

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22 hours ago, kehatch said:

Trouba needs to be protected in the expansion draft. Which means we would need to move one of Giordano, Brodie, or Hamilton before then, possibly in the trade for him. I don't like him better than Hamilton or Brodie and I can't see the Flames moving Giordano.

I don't see a fit with Calgary personally. 

 

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Have to expose at least one goalie.  No way around that.  You can go with 8 skaters.  Use the generalfanager.com expansion tool.  If you went with 4 D, that would mean you could only protect JH, SM, SB and Backlund.  Leaves Brouwer, Frolik, Ferland, Shinkaruk, Poirier, Stajan, Bouma out there.

 

8 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Eeeerrrr...Do we care? 

They Gonna take someone.  That's gonna happen.   I honestly don't see anyone in that list that terrifies me.   These aren't core players.  Likely never will be.   The closest might be Frolik, and with the last two years of his salary, it Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world losing him into his 30's.

At first I thought yeah, we can't protect 4 D.  But when you lay it out like that.... (keeping in mind they may not all even be here if we trade for Trouba).

 

Thought #2.   Several posts above skirt around the impossibility of involving Giordano in a trade.  And skirt around the obvious advantages, like age, salary, relevancy to Winnipeg, etc.   Nothing's impossible.

I agree JJ, i don't think we should care.  We signed Frolik and Brouwer via UFA and so we can target the best RW next summer to replace losing one of them.  There's also a chance we lose a Ferland, Shinkaruk, or Bouma which are less of a concern as i think we can replace all of them from within or via UFA fairly easily.  If we have to protect 8 skaters with Trouba included, then that's a viable option.

There are other scenarios whereby Jokipakka is a stud this season and we have to go 8 skaters anyways.  Not only that, we can still make trades just before the draft, i'm assuming.  Or at the very least, make our adjustments at TDL.  If there's a deal in place for Trouba not involving Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton, then we should explore it.  

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I think it's just one of those things where Trouba longterm is maybe better than Gio. But Gio's got a couple of years of prime left and is our leader and likely returns with Norris form.

More Trouba's will come down the road, when we're in a better dealing position.

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Protecting 8 is an option. But you need to factor in what we are going to lose in the draft to the cost of acquiring Trouba. 

The Flames just aren't a great fit. 

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19 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Have to expose at least one goalie.  No way around that.  You can go with 8 skaters.  Use the generalfanager.com expansion tool.  If you went with 4 D, that would mean you could only protect JH, SM, SB and Backlund.  Leaves Brouwer, Frolik, Ferland, Shinkaruk, Poirier, Stajan, Bouma out there.

So if neither Elliott or Johnson are under contract do we have to expose lower down such as Gillies ?

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5 hours ago, kehatch said:

Protecting 8 is an option. But you need to factor in what we are going to lose in the draft to the cost of acquiring Trouba. 

The Flames just aren't a great fit. 

 

I agree but more becuase I don't think they have the assets to get it done. personaly for me, the expansion draft is not a deterent to trading for Trouba. I really don't have a problem with protecting only 8 skaters and losing one of the many forwards. If Backlund has a good season he is a trade candidate next season anyway so you are still left with plenty of options.

 

That shoudn't be your deterent, not for me at least. I take that risk 100% of the time to get a young top 3 dman with a bright future. But as i've been saying I don't see how the Flames can get to the Jets asking price. I thnk Trouba is a fit here for sure, but the asking price is going to be tough to get to. 

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34 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

So if neither Elliott or Johnson are under contract do we have to expose lower down such as Gillies ?

 

Gilles, and all other goalies in the minor leagues are exempt so they arn't eligible for selection. 

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3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I agree but more becuase I don't think they have the assets to get it done. personaly for me, the expansion draft is not a deterent to trading for Trouba. I really don't have a problem with protecting only 8 skaters and losing one of the many forwards. If Backlund has a good season he is a trade candidate next season anyway so you are still left with plenty of options.

 

That shoudn't be your deterent, not for me at least. I take that risk 100% of the time to get a young top 3 dman with a bright future. But as i've been saying I don't see how the Flames can get to the Jets asking price. I thnk Trouba is a fit here for sure, but the asking price is going to be tough to get to. 

One has to know what WPG would need for him. They have a fairly good player roster now so is their system lacking any needs our system could help with ?

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