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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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2 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

It is all well and good and easy to say we just need a top 6 RW to play with Mony and JH but if we put our resources into finding that guy then our D will suffer for it.

 

If it was not for an expansion draft holding us back from filling either of these needs we would be farther ahead to solving these handcuffs.

 

I don't blame the goalies too much because our D is not as good as most think. Sure we have a good top 3 but after that our D and D depth pretty much sucks.

 

We are stuck with what we have at least until after expansion. We can't protect 4 D so can't  actively search and aquire a #4 D. Unless there is a top #4D rental out there.

 

Same goes pretty much for top 6 RW. Frankly I am not so sure that finding a top RW for JH and Money is that high on our To Do list. Most coaches coach with pairings for lines.

 

What we really need is the right guy to play with and pair up with Bennett.  2 years now he has had no one of note to play with. Little wonder he is struggling now.

 

Backs-Frolik

JH-Mony

Bennett- X

 

I think we are talking about after the expansion draft and next season when it comes to significant change. BT could try to use up some deemed excess prospects and picks to get a rental like Stone to partner with Brodie but I'm not sold it would be worth it. If the cost is worth a trial run with Stone maybe he goes for it.

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

After 59 garmes last year Monahan had 18 goals and 41 points. This year he has 19 goals and 35 points. Struggling? Gaudreau is the only player not playing well under this system and that isn't the system. This system can produce offence, Pittsburgh, Washington, rangers, and Anaheim all run basically the same system Calgary does. 3/4 of a season is not enough time to fully execute every aspect of a system to the level required either. Look at how much Pittsburgh struggled to produce offensively in the playoffs last year and then look at them is year. Takes time. 

 

 

We view things differently. Pitts won the cup shortly after a coaching change,Minny, Blues have turned it around, FLA, NYI, but not us.  We are 7 points better than last season not a drastic change that you and others advocate GG has made. There is no offensive threat, are transition game is slow, we are easily forced to the outside and soft. We take more penalties this year, but yet are players do not stick up for one another, Why? Lazy weak players or systems and coaching that place  them in a position of weakness? Sure there are shots but not of any quality. There are very few if at all odd man rushes, we don't drive the net.  Our zone entries are predictable, pp, and offensive possession. Miller really didn't have to be to outstanding, every thing happened in slow motion with when it happens. If you want to talk positional hockey VAN should you that last night, that system I agree is how Pitts, NYR, ANA, WSH play, not us. Vancouver has adapted to having no talent and being competitive with it. We have far more talent and have never utilized it this season. Players or systems, cause it is more than one individual that has struggled this season.

 

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49 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

It is all well and good and easy to say we just need a top 6 RW to play with Mony and JH but if we put our resources into finding that guy then our D will suffer for it.

 

If it was not for an expansion draft holding us back from filling either of these needs we would be farther ahead to solving these handcuffs.

 

I don't blame the goalies too much because our D is not as good as most think. Sure we have a good top 3 but after that our D and D depth pretty much sucks.

 

We are stuck with what we have at least until after expansion. We can't protect 4 D so can't  actively search and aquire a #4 D. Unless there is a top #4D rental out there.

 

Same goes pretty much for top 6 RW. Frankly I am not so sure that finding a top RW for JH and Money is that high on our To Do list. Most coaches coach with pairings for lines.

 

What we really need is the right guy to play with and pair up with Bennett.  2 years now he has had no one of note to play with. Little wonder he is struggling now.

 

Backs-Frolik

JH-Mony

Bennett- X

 

 

Don't have any issues with what you describe.  The D this year have been all over the map.  Usually only one pair working in a night.  Or half a pair.

Where I see a problem is with the 3rd guy on any of the top 3 lines.  Tkachuk has been exactly what you need with Backlund/Frolik.  JH/Mony have had the wrong guy most nights.  You see the chemsirty between the two, but then the 3rd wheel is going in the wrong direction.  The play dies or goes the other way.  Bennett has it worse.  Can;t even really tell you who his linemates are.  Instead of trying to create chemistry by letting him play with the same guy, they swap players to help or rewarding them from god 4th line play.

 

The net effect is we see exactly one line being consistent.  

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1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

We view things differently. Pitts won the cup shortly after a coaching change,Minny, Blues have turned it around, FLA, NYI, but not us.  We are 7 points better than last season not a drastic change that you and others advocate GG has made. There is no offensive threat, are transition game is slow, we are easily forced to the outside and soft. We take more penalties this year, but yet are players do not stick up for one another, Why? Lazy weak players or systems and coaching that place  them in a position of weakness? Sure there are shots but not of any quality. There are very few if at all odd man rushes, we don't drive the net.  Our zone entries are predictable, pp, and offensive possession. Miller really didn't have to be to outstanding, every thing happened in slow motion with when it happens. If you want to talk positional hockey VAN should you that last night, that system I agree is how Pitts, NYR, ANA, WSH play, not us. Vancouver has adapted to having no talent and being competitive with it. We have far more talent and have never utilized it this season. Players or systems, cause it is more than one individual that has struggled this season.

 

 

We clearly see the flames very differently if you are using those teams as a comparison and I don't think the flames have near the talent you seem to think so. This isn't a playoff team in paper imo and yet Gulutzan has them right there, almost inspite of their goaltending too. 

 

Reason on why I advocate there has been so much positive change is if you look at this team since the 10 game mark they have the 12th most wins in the NHL.  Best part too is they actually have a sustainable level of play and a foundation built as well. This is a team is in year 4 of a rebuild so I don't see why it should be judged like its a finished product. 

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2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think we are talking about after the expansion draft and next season when it comes to significant change. BT could try to use up some deemed excess prospects and picks to get a rental like Stone to partner with Brodie but I'm not sold it would be worth it. If the cost is worth a trial run with Stone maybe he goes for it.

BT won't do this. he said in an interview last week he had no appetite to put prospects or picks in a deal for a rental.

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5 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

BT won't do this. he said in an interview last week he had no appetite to put prospects or picks in a deal for a rental.

OK I didn't hear that however there will be a lot of talking between now and the TDL. I would have to think if ARZ says give us so and so for Stone and BT doesn't see said players in the Flames future he considers it or should.

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33 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

OK I didn't hear that however there will be a lot of talking between now and the TDL. I would have to think if ARZ says give us so and so for Stone and BT doesn't see said players in the Flames future he considers it or should.

fan 960 interview.. few days ago(Wed).. 28 minutes long

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-show/treliving-bartkowski-help-expansion-draft/

 

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3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

We clearly see the flames very differently if you are using those teams as a comparison and I don't think the flames have near the talent you seem to think so. This isn't a playoff team in paper imo and yet Gulutzan has them right there, almost inspite of their goaltending too. 

 

Reason on why I advocate there has been so much positive change is if you look at this team since the 10 game mark they have the 12th most wins in the NHL.  Best part too is they actually have a sustainable level of play and a foundation built as well. This is a team is in year 4 of a rebuild so I don't see why it should be judged like its a finished product. 

This is honestly the most important part for all the naysayers of GG, I pointed this out in another thread, but since the 16 game mark of the season, we are 24-16-3, interesting thats a pretty good team, thats a .558 win percentage which is alot better then we are currently at. 

 

We started the season 5-10-1. if I take our winning percentage of .558 since the 16 game mark and use it on the first 16 games we would instead be approx 9-6-1, with a season record of 33-22-4 which would give us about 70 points. For the people saying the turnaround is not dramatic its pretty big, the only month we have struggled was january, other then the rough start to the season. This team is on the up and up its pretty easy to see. If I choose not to round up the math from the beginning of the season  we instead have 68 points.  It might not seem like a big difference but that 7 point improvement gets up to 13 to 15 points if we take out that 16 game part at the beginning of the season.

 

Ive said it before and Ill say it again GG has this team heading the right direction and next season should be interesting. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

This is honestly the most important part for all the naysayers of GG, I pointed this out in another thread, but since the 16 game mark of the season, we are 24-16-3, interesting thats a pretty good team, thats a .558 win percentage which is alot better then we are currently at. 

 

We started the season 5-10-1. if I take our winning percentage of .558 since the 16 game mark and use it on the first 16 games we would instead be approx 9-6-1, with a season record of 33-22-4 which would give us about 70 points. For the people saying the turnaround is not dramatic its pretty big, the only month we have struggled was january, other then the rough start to the season. This team is on the up and up its pretty easy to see. If I choose not to round up the math from the beginning of the season  we instead have 68 points.  It might not seem like a big difference but that 7 point improvement gets up to 13 to 15 points if we take out that 16 game part at the beginning of the season.

 

Ive said it before and Ill say it again GG has this team heading the right direction and next season should be interesting. 

 

 

you can't just dismiss the first 16 games. All you are doing is manipulating partial data to fit your opinions.  

 

For the same reasoning the people claim BH's team was an anomaly when they bucked the odds for comebacks, you can say the same here too. Too small a sample over too small a period to show this team will continue with a higher win percentage.

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2 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

you can't just dismiss the first 16 games. All you are doing is manipulating partial data to fit your opinions.  

 

For the same reasoning the people claim BH's team was an anomaly when they bucked the odds for comebacks, you can say the same here too. Too small a sample over too small a period to show this team will continue with a higher win percentage.

 

Most new coaches take 15-20 games to get their system implemented. Also the stats since the first 16 games are more of an indication of how this plays vs the smaller sample size of 16 games. It shows that the team is trending in the right direction.

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Don Maloney is making the rounds, he is watching Colorado vs Tampa tonight. 

 

 

Maybe watching Bishop or Packard?

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4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Most new coaches take 15-20 games to get their system implemented. Also the stats since the first 16 games are more of an indication of how this plays vs the smaller sample size of 16 games. It shows that the team is trending in the right direction.

just about every single coaching change this year has shown a big improvement in team play and results.. None required a 16 game cushion to adjust to the new coach's system.

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10 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

just about every single coaching change this year has shown a big improvement in team play and results.. None required a 16 game cushion to adjust to the new coach's system.

Now Mr. Deeds, are you implying manipulating stats to support an opinion is a thing??

That is rather sophisticated anarchy, I must study the subject further. lol

 

Okay, so I've reviewed the data, and recall the sensation of just glazing over, accompanied by a nap from the confusion...

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1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

Now Mr. Deeds, are you implying manipulating stats to support an opinion is a thing??

That is rather sophisticated anarchy, I must study the subject further. lol

 

Okay, so I've reviewed the data, and recall the sensation of just glazing over, accompanied by a nap from the confusion...

Exactly.. more naps

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2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Exactly.. more naps

 

This is, without question, the only opinion I can completely, unequivocally, 100% agree with on this entire site.

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8 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

We clearly see the flames very differently if you are using those teams as a comparison and I don't think the flames have near the talent you seem to think so. This isn't a playoff team in paper imo and yet Gulutzan has them right there, almost inspite of their goaltending too. 

 

Reason on why I advocate there has been so much positive change is if you look at this team since the 10 game mark they have the 12th most wins in the NHL.  Best part too is they actually have a sustainable level of play and a foundation built as well. This is a team is in year 4 of a rebuild so I don't see why it should be judged like its a finished product. 

So what were they when we did make the playoff . So keep the coach trade the players for better ones and you best fire Trevling and Burke cause the product on the ice is 100% there roster

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2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

just about every single coaching change this year has shown a big improvement in team play and results.. None required a 16 game cushion to adjust to the new coach's system.

 

In every instance expect Montreal the new coach was already with the team prior to the coach being fired so the adjustment wasn't as big, as it would have been with a coach that had never been with the team.

 

Florida fired Gallant and put then GM Tome Rowe in as coach.

Islanders fired Capuano and put Doug Weight, who had been AGM and before that was an assistant under Capuano, in as coach.

Blues fired Hitchcock and put Mike Yeo, who had been associate coach and when he was hired it was announced that he would be taking over for Hitch at the end of this year, in as coach.

Bruins fired Julien and put Bruce Cassidy, who was an assistant coach under Julien and previously was head coach for the Bruins AHL affiliate in Providence, in as coach.

 

All these guys knew the player well before taking over and knew exactly what the previous head coach was doing and probably didn't make drastic changes to the team.

 

Gulutzan didn't know most of the players on this roster previous to this year, wasn't familiar with the previous coaching staff, and was missing two of his key forwards for pretty much all of training camp. It's not even close to the same situation.

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2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

just about every single coaching change this year has shown a big improvement in team play and results.. None required a 16 game cushion to adjust to the new coach's system.

 

16 is high, I say 10-12, but it does take time in most cases for a team to execute at the proper level. 

Minnosota was just above .500 on their first 20 games and that includes getting Vezina calibre goaltending. They weren't playing near as well as they are now. 

Florida went 6-7-7 after firing Gallant. 

Ducks started this season 5-5-2

 

further breakdown here. http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2016/10/recurring-issue-slow-starts-for-new-nhl.html

 

flames definetly were on the ugly side of things no question, but it does take time.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

In every instance expect Montreal the new coach was already with the team prior to the coach being fired so the adjustment wasn't as big, as it would have been with a coach that had never been with the team.

 

Florida fired Gallant and put then GM Tome Rowe in as coach.

Islanders fired Capuano and put Doug Weight, who had been AGM and before that was an assistant under Capuano, in as coach.

Blues fired Hitchcock and put Mike Yeo, who had been associate coach and when he was hired it was announced that he would be taking over for Hitch at the end of this year, in as coach.

Bruins fired Julien and put Bruce Cassidy, who was an assistant coach under Julien and previously was head coach for the Bruins AHL affiliate in Providence, in as coach.

 

All these guys knew the player well before taking over and knew exactly what the previous head coach was doing and probably didn't make drastic changes to the team.

 

Gulutzan didn't know most of the players on this roster previous to this year, wasn't familiar with the previous coaching staff, and was missing two of his key forwards for pretty much all of training camp. It's not even close to the same situation.

You forgot Bodreau in Minny and Caryle in ANA. Deeds is right  everyone can provide information to prove their point. One states the team isgood coach is the issue others its vise versa

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44 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

So what were they when we did make the playoff . So keep the coach trade the players for better ones and you best fire Trevling and Burke cause the product on the ice is 100% there roster

 

A great season where basically the entire roster played above its head. That season wasn't repeatable and is the outlier. that roster shouldn't have made the playoffs and was probably a lottery pick team but seasons like that happen. I think the actual talent on the roster was closer to the lottery pick team of last year than the team that got into the playoffs. Remember that season , based on their talent , almost no one thought they were a playoff team. 

But if you want to use that's team as your benchmark I would point out that this year teams is only 3 wins behind that club after same amount of games. 

 

No quite. Wideman is not one of theirs and having a 5.25mill boat anchor really limits what you can do, especially when you've needed to pay your stars. I'm excited for what Treliving can do with the defence now that he will have cap room.  Plus I also happen to believe that a team battling for a playoff spot in year 4 of a rebuild and year 1 with a new coach is pretty good. 

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10 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

You forgot Bodreau in Minny and Caryle in ANA. Deeds is right  everyone can provide information to prove their point. One states the team isgood coach is the issue others its vise versa

 

Anaheim was 7-6-3 through the first 16 games this year. Minnesota was 9-6-1 through their first 16 games. Which is good but they have been substantially better since. We were 5-10-1. I would also add that both teams have much, much better rosters than we do. Minnesota has the probable Vezina winner in Dubnyk, and Gibson is no slouch either with his 2.27 GAA and .922 save%.

 

If you trying to compare us to those teams, well there is no comparison, they  are much better regardless of the coach.

 

I also think Anaheim is under preforming compared to the quality of their roster. They only have 2 more wins than we do and have played 1 more game than we have.

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

A great season where basically the entire roster played above its head. That season wasn't repeatable and is the outlier. that roster shouldn't have made the playoffs and was probably a lottery pick team but seasons like that happen. I think the actual talent on the roster was closer to the lottery pick team of last year than the team that got into the playoffs. Remember that season , based on their talent , almost no one thought they were a playoff team. 

But if you want to use that's team as your benchmark I would point out that this year teams is only 3 wins behind that club after same amount of games. 

 

No quite. Wideman is not one of theirs and having a 5.25mill boat anchor really limits what you can do, especially when you've needed to pay your stars. I'm excited for what Treliving can do with the defence now that he will have cap room.  Plus I also happen to believe that a team battling for a playoff spot in year 4 of a rebuild and year 1 with a new coach is pretty good. 

You make it sound like BT was handcuffed by someone else with  cap room. he was handcuffed  but he put himself in that position with the signing of Hamilton. That alone is the reason why he had tough negotiations this year with little room or flexibility.

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17 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

fan 960 interview.. few days ago(Wed).. 28 minutes long

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-show/treliving-bartkowski-help-expansion-draft/

 

Did you think I didn't hear your last post ? Rumor has it the Flames have bee one of the most active teams scouting out situations. If you are going to take all statements so literally maybe you should listen to them all. I expect a few change come the TDL what he uses to make those changes remains to be seen.

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19 hours ago, tmac70 said:

We view things differently. Pitts won the cup shortly after a coaching change,Minny, Blues have turned it around, FLA, NYI, but not us.  We are 7 points better than last season not a drastic change that you and others advocate GG has made. There is no offensive threat, are transition game is slow, we are easily forced to the outside and soft. We take more penalties this year, but yet are players do not stick up for one another, Why? Lazy weak players or systems and coaching that place  them in a position of weakness? Sure there are shots but not of any quality. There are very few if at all odd man rushes, we don't drive the net.  Our zone entries are predictable, pp, and offensive possession. Miller really didn't have to be to outstanding, every thing happened in slow motion with when it happens. If you want to talk positional hockey VAN should you that last night, that system I agree is how Pitts, NYR, ANA, WSH play, not us. Vancouver has adapted to having no talent and being competitive with it. We have far more talent and have never utilized it this season. Players or systems, cause it is more than one individual that has struggled this season.

 

Last time I looked we had a better record than VAN. I don't think you can comprehend what is being implemented by GG with this team mandated by management. They could fire the coaching staff however they would be admitting the whole direction was wrong. Why do you say we have far more talent than VAN or even EDM this season ? Our talent is with a young maturing core and two key players Gaudreau and Bennett are struggling through this season so far. This stuff happens, you just don't want to recognize it happens and you head right into the blame game because "my team isn't winning" the way I think they should. The system is coming along just fine, the execution and personal performances by certain players needs to improve.

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7 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

You make it sound like BT was handcuffed by someone else with  cap room. he was handcuffed  but he put himself in that position with the signing of Hamilton. That alone is the reason why he had tough negotiations this year with little room or flexibility.

Hamilton was a necessary need regardless of where the cap situation was, BT made it work and this team's future will be better for it. Wideman is a bad contract situation cramping other moves, good GMs have to work around them and I think BT has done that.

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