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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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10 minutes ago, JA_Boomer said:

Bennett RW on the 1st line with Johnny and Mony tonight according to pre-game line rushes as per Loubo.

 

Can you say highlight for a trade?

 

I don't much hope for the results being good.  I think it's too late.  Hope I am wrong.

He's developed bad habits playing with bad players.  Play with Brouwer and you start to think you have to do it yourself.  Hathaway went from being a help to a distraction.  The line turned into another 4th line, where all they were doing is skating to a tie and crashing players.  Actually the 4th line (before Brouwer) was an energy line with little finish.

 

He is a victim of circumstance.  How many LW do we need in the top 6?  Tkachuk has been too valuable to try on an off wing except on the PP.  I don;t see the chemistry with Janko anymore.  It's like Bennett wants to do it himself.  Won't give a decent pass to Janko.  Almost like he knows his spot in the roster has been replaced.     

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I don't much hope for the results being good.  I think it's too late.  Hope I am wrong.

 

Perhaps his best game of the year, several scoring chances.

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3 minutes ago, JA_Boomer said:

 

Perhaps his best game of the year, several scoring chances.

 

I love to be wrong, in a good way.

The last time they tried it, it lasted for one game.  Perhaps that was due to playing C.  

Ferland was great for 1/2 a season.  Then cooled off.  

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5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya but Hamilton doesn't have a brain, remember?

 

I'm not saying I would do it but just saying I don't see how the Sabres trade Ristolainen without asking for Hamilton back in return.

 

Would they/you do Ristolainen for Hamonic?  I would.  Hamonic has been shakey this season.  Two Finns Valimaki - Ristolainen pairing would be stellar moving into the future.  Gio - Hamilton is a good top pair.  Keep them together if we could.  Our bottom pair could be a make-up of Fox, Andersson, Kylington, Kulak.  Pretty solid I think.  

 

Right now Brodie is hurting us more than helping us and Hamonic is playing below his potential.

 

I get what you're saying and I wasn't directing that you, just generally I know he's a name that keeps floating around and I don't know what. I get his points look good, but when you look at the numbers and watch him plays he's really under whelming.  i also think it's borderline criminal that hamilton doesn't get more love so just two general issues I have. If you don't like the way hamilton thinks the game I'm scared for what you'd say about risto.....

 

i cant see the sabres doing that no. I'd do it because then you could bury Risto a little bit and turn him more into an offensive dman and not the defensive matchup guy the Sabres are doing. 

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Realistically, their TDL they should have two simple goals:

 

1. Drop dead weight, make room for what they need.  Stajin, brewer, Versteege were all mistakes to re-up or get, time to send them out they just don’t fit with the team, heck Frolik is kinda expandable too, but that said he’s not a liability like the other three.  Defence has a few like Stone which I was happy to keep on but that turned out to be a mistake, chemistry wise he’s not a fit.  Having said that, Brodie I love but he’s not fitting with Hammer so either trade him Or find a fit to pair with him, the latter being the better of the two options.

 

2.  RW is horrible, and once a major strength, this needs to be addressed, they need to look at two really solid Power Forwards with skill and IQ  for the top two lines.  Iggy type or Glencross types, also, I’m not sure if we have this already but a role player guy like Yell back in the day ( a 3-4 th line grit and sandpaper type that can win FO’s and shut down the other team with shot blocking) and or Vallie Nemina 3-4 th line agitator type who can be a scoring threat (or both types) would be awesome. it’s the grit, determination effort with some skill and IQ we are missing in the line up.  Just an observation of why really seems to be missing.  Oh and new additions need to be UNDER 30, or 27 more preferable, keep in the age range of our core guys. This team really dose NOT need a vet presence any more the core is mature enough.  They are kinda like the old days of Chi add the right piece here and there and they are contenders for a few years if they keep the core together but...it’s a young mans game they need to keep it under 30 and watch anyone nearing 30 for contract term, no more then 3 year terms on guys over 27, so you have flexibility to move or let them go...AKA never make a Brewer type contract again. 

 

Not or saying they can get this right now but step 1 dump the the baggage, they are not bad players just not a fit here anymore, they are reasonably good vets for a young contender AKA Vegas could be a fit, or a rebuilding team like Pho or even Car...take whatever you can get either prospect or draft picks are great currency to add in a deal for what you need

 

in short, they need to be sellers this year, to prepare for next summer....long term outlook is the key here, and there is some things that can be done on a buyers side too what with Ott and NYR having a scorched earth policy...

 

i do admit, I’m not sure who fits or is available that fits our needs, which is why I’m thinking drop the current pieces that don’t fit...are there any available PF RW’s available for a reasonable price?

 

ayway, my thoughts on no trade guys who are the core to build around are:

 

mony

Johnny

Chucky

backs

ferland (bottom 2 lines only)

benny

Janks

 

Hammernoic

Hamilton

Brodie

Gio (but we need to look at replacing him soon)

 

gillis 

 

chemistry with this core core group is the key and hopefully Klimchuck and Porier get it together soon they could fill one of the PW RW needs and the grit need if they do.

 

 

 

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S@?t really? He’s that valued and that good?  I had no idea...mmm 

 

well anyother similar options like him him out there but with less of price tag lol! 

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26 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

S@?t really? He’s that valued and that good?  I had no idea...mmm 

 

well anyother similar options like him him out there but with less of price tag lol! 

 

They have nearly identical point production.  This year, Stone is 3-points over point-per-game even.  If it wasn't for injuries, he would have more total points for sure.  Monahan plays a tougher position but Stone has the coveted RHS.  Both guys have good size but Stone is willing to fight.  Stone is pending RFA though and looking at upwards $7.5-mil.

 

They're pretty even overall.

 

Another potential trade would be Tkachuk straight up for Stone.  But I think that's an over payment by the Flames as Tkachuk's ceiling is currently the sky.

 

Other possibilities depends on how much the Sens value someone like Brodie and Bennett.

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50 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

nnS@?t really? He’s that valued and that good?  I had no idea...mmm 

 

well anyother similar options like him him out there but with less of price tag lol! 

I think we should send our Stone to OTT for Zack Smith LW. OTT would likely be one team Stone would waive his NTC to go. This allows us to bring up Andersson and we can put Zack Smith to good use here.

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If you want Mark Stone then I think the exercise would be what would you trade Gaudreau for. Values are pretty much identical I think, Stone's value is really, really high. Arguably the most complete RW in the game. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, cross16 said:

If you want Mark Stone then I think the exercise would be what would you trade Gaudreau for. Values are pretty much identical I think, Stone's value is really, really high. Arguably the most complete RW in the game. 

 

 

How about Gaudreau for Stone ? Have our top line be Bennett, Monahan, Stone.

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14 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

How about Gaudreau for Stone ? Have our top line be Bennett, Monahan, Stone.

 

If I were Ottawa I'd take that deal, mostly becuase I think you gett a more impact player for likely less $ as the Gaudreau extenstion is looking pretty cheap at the moment. Stone is likely going to need 7mill plus. 

If I were the Flames i'd pass. I have lots to say about Gaudreau's game but he is still my MVP for the Flames this season. He just drives so much of their offence and makes so many others around him better that to take that out for another winger, who doesn't do the same, is a risk i'm not taking. That's a shuffle the decks kind of trade, might work but could easily blow up in your face too.

 

Understand the logic, but not where I would go personally. IMO you don't move Gaudreau unless you are getting an elite center or an elite defender. 

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15 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

What about Hamilton straight up for Stone?

 

No doubt you have to give to get in a trade for Stone, but rather than debate the value of return for a top pairing right D, I'll just leave it at this...

 

That would open up a huge hole on D that the Flames currently have absolutely no possible way of filling...

 

Move Brodie back to the right side with Gio?...   Still leaves a huge hole...

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5 minutes ago, Carty said:

That would open up a huge hole on D that the Flames currently have absolutely no possible way of filling...

 

This is my take too.

 

This is something the Flames as an organization have struggled with basically since the early 90s. They never build up enough depth in 1 area to be able to make a deal without leaving a massive hole and the just continue to shuffle the pieces around. RW is absolutely a gigantic hole and I love Stone but if you dealt Hamilton for Stone all your doing is just creating one hole to fill another. That is how you stay a mediocre franchise and struggle to take the next step. 

 

Time for the organization to get some patience, build up their depth so you can move a piece like a Brodie - Hamilton etc and not create a massive hole in your lineup. Otherwise I don't see this team ever being able to take the next step if they just constantly shuffle the pieces around. I understand there is a certain element of this in a cap system but look at teams like Nashville, Tampa, Chicago (well up until now), Anaheim etc. Teams that have had to, for multiple reason, move out good players but have players from within that can fill that void. Flames aren't there and they need to get there. 

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43 minutes ago, Carty said:

That would open up a huge hole on D that the Flames currently have absolutely no possible way of filling...

 

Move Brodie back to the right side with Gio?...   Still leaves a huge hole...

 

I understand but it's not that exaggerated.

 

No doubt we create a hole on D but you weigh the overall difference.  We have hope on RD in Hamonic, Stone, and Andersson.  We have zero on RW.  If we look past this season, there's also Adam Fox who is looking promising on RD.  Conversely, here's no one on RW looking promising.  There's no hope on RW in the future.

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

This is my take too.

 

This is something the Flames as an organization have struggled with basically since the early 90s. They never build up enough depth in 1 area to be able to make a deal without leaving a massive hole and the just continue to shuffle the pieces around. RW is absolutely a gigantic hole and I love Stone but if you dealt Hamilton for Stone all your doing is just creating one hole to fill another. That is how you stay a mediocre franchise and struggle to take the next step. 

 

Time for the organization to get some patience, build up their depth so you can move a piece like a Brodie - Hamilton etc and not create a massive hole in your lineup. Otherwise I don't see this team ever being able to take the next step if they just constantly shuffle the pieces around. I understand there is a certain element of this in a cap system but look at teams like Nashville, Tampa, Chicago (well up until now), Anaheim etc. Teams that have had to, for multiple reason, move out good players but have players from within that can fill that void. Flames aren't there and they need to get there. 

 

I see what you’re saying. We always leave one or two positions bare. 

 

Although, we do have Valimaki possibly in next year. If Brodie goes back with Gio, is 2nd pair too high for the rookie? Can he handle it? 

 

Anderson and someone else can man the 3rd pair, if we can trade Stone as well.

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12 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I see what you’re saying. We always leave one or two positions bare. 

 

Although, we do have Valimaki possibly in next year. If Brodie goes back with Gio, is 2nd pair too high for the rookie? Can he handle it? 

 

Anderson and someone else can man the 3rd pair, if we can trade Stone as well.

 

No problem with Andersson with Stone. I would even explore moving Hamonic with Andersson is coming too as I dont' see Hamonic as another more than an avg number 4 dman. Part of this is Peeps and I disagree on Hamilton but IMO Hamilton is a top 15 defender in the league so if you are going to move that with no one close to replacing him you're leaving a massive hole. Just look at what Hamilton has done to the PP in short order. Replacing him with Brodie IMO is still a pretty steep downgrade given Brodie's struggles. I don't buy into the theory that all Brodie needs is back on the Right side with Gio. 

 

I'm a big fan of Valamaki but i'm not putting that type of pressure on him. Which is why I think the Flames are still a year or two away from really seeing what they have in their depth

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

This is my take too.

 

This is something the Flames as an organization have struggled with basically since the early 90s. They never build up enough depth in 1 area to be able to make a deal without leaving a massive hole and the just continue to shuffle the pieces around. RW is absolutely a gigantic hole and I love Stone but if you dealt Hamilton for Stone all your doing is just creating one hole to fill another. That is how you stay a mediocre franchise and struggle to take the next step. 

 

Time for the organization to get some patience, build up their depth so you can move a piece like a Brodie - Hamilton etc and not create a massive hole in your lineup. Otherwise I don't see this team ever being able to take the next step if they just constantly shuffle the pieces around. I understand there is a certain element of this in a cap system but look at teams like Nashville, Tampa, Chicago (well up until now), Anaheim etc. Teams that have had to, for multiple reason, move out good players but have players from within that can fill that void. Flames aren't there and they need to get there. 

I tend to agree that BT shouldn't push the panic button. If Bennett could play RW like he showed last night we could have our answer or at least one of them for RW. We have been discussing team speed and I think you will agree we need to take what speed we do have and deploy it so players like Monahan and Tkachuk have good skaters with them. I think this has been their reluctance to move Tkachuk off the 3M line.

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3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

No problem with Andersson with Stone. I would even explore moving Hamonic with Andersson is coming too as I dont' see Hamonic as another more than an avg number 4 dman. Part of this is Peeps and I disagree on Hamilton but IMO Hamilton is a top 15 defender in the league so if you are going to move that with no one close to replacing him you're leaving a massive hole. Just look at what Hamilton has done to the PP in short order. Replacing him with Brodie IMO is still a pretty steep downgrade given Brodie's struggles. I don't buy into the theory that all Brodie needs is back on the Right side with Gio. 

 

I'm a big fan of Valamaki but i'm not putting that type of pressure on him. Which is why I think the Flames are still a year or two away from really seeing what they have in their depth

Another approach given Stone is traded would be to spread the experience around as such.

Giordano, Hamilton (I think this is working well)

Valimaki, Hamonic ( depending if deemed Valimaki can handle this 1st season)

Brodie, Andersson ( gives Brodie less minutes and maybe that is a good thing)

This keeps everyone on their shot side which GG appears to ideally want.

This set up also starts backing up the developable talents remaining to eventually start replacing Giordano, Brodie and Hamonic.

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5 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think we should send our Stone to OTT for Zack Smith LW. OTT would likely be one team Stone would waive his NTC to go. This allows us to bring up Andersson and we can put Zack Smith to good use here.

 

That's a backwards trade, Stone is a much better player than Smith is much more e valuable. I don't see how Smith fits in this team at. There is no way we should be looking to acquire Smith, unless Brouwer is going the other way, even then I am not sure I would do that trade.

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