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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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16 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

That's a backwards trade, Stone is a much better player than Smith is much more e valuable. I don't see how Smith fits in this team at. There is no way we should be looking to acquire Smith, unless Brouwer is going the other way, even then I am not sure I would do that trade.

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So word is that Ottawa is looking to offload Karlsson, preferably by adding Bobby Ryan along with it.  Ryan carries negative trade value due to his salary, so could a deal be done?

 

To Ottawa: Brodie, Ferland, Mangiapane, Conditional 1st in 2020 (Karlsson resigns)

To Calgary: Karlsson, Ryan (2 Million retained)

 

Ottawa gets cheaper, and still gets a 2nd paring defenseman on a value contract, and replaces Ryan with a younger, more productive forward, along with a good prospect and a high draft pick.

Calgary gets a Norris trophy winner and a serviceable 3rd line RW (who actually shoots right), although he would be massively overpaid even with salary retention. 

 

I know it's pie in the sky, and that Ott will likely demand much more, but it seems fair value (Ryan's contract is worse than Brouwers imo).

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Part of this is Peeps and I disagree on Hamilton but IMO Hamilton is a top 15 defender in the league so if you are going to move that with no one close to replacing him you're leaving a massive hole. 

 

Well let's look at this from reverse for a second.  We have Mark Stone and the Senators have Dougie Hamilton.

 

Would you trade Stone for Hamilton?  We would leave a massive hole on RW.  We would break apart what might be the best line in the NHL Gaudreau - Monahan - Stone. 

 

I know Hamonic has almost no offense but defensively is comparable to Hamilton, who is becoming increasingly more dependable to your credit.  Still though. The drop off from Stone to Ferland/Frolik is much bigger than the drop off from Hamilton to Hamonic.

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I'm a big fan of Valamaki but i'm not putting that type of pressure on him. Which is why I think the Flames are still a year or two away from really seeing what they have in their depth

 

It's as simple as that...   Maybe in a season or two the Flames can look at trading a top 4 D...   Maybe even two of them at some point...

 

But you do that after you bring a player(s) up and they prove that they can play the position, not before...   Otherwise, it's just a fools bet, and that is always one that's best not to make...

 

Even then, I would look at trading Brodie, Hamonic or Stone before Hamilton...

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51 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

So word is that Ottawa is looking to offload Karlsson, preferably by adding Bobby Ryan along with it.  Ryan carries negative trade value due to his salary, so could a deal be done?

 

To Ottawa: Brodie, Ferland, Mangiapane, Conditional 1st in 2020 (Karlsson resigns)

To Calgary: Karlsson, Ryan (2 Million retained)

 

Ottawa gets cheaper, and still gets a 2nd paring defenseman on a value contract, and replaces Ryan with a younger, more productive forward, along with a good prospect and a high draft pick.

Calgary gets a Norris trophy winner and a serviceable 3rd line RW (who actually shoots right), although he would be massively overpaid even with salary retention. 

 

I know it's pie in the sky, and that Ott will likely demand much more, but it seems fair value (Ryan's contract is worse than Brouwers imo).

It seems that every deal posted is a reach for us. We really are not that bad off with the talent we have now and just need to compliment it in the right way. The one player that is below the surface that I wouldn't mind obtaining is the young Nylander with BUF. If we want a fast smooth skating playmaker for say a Tkachuk and Backlund, he would be a good add to our core. Could we get him for Mangiapane and Kylington ?

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Well here is a thought, what about this:

 

Ryan, Stone and Karlsson

 

for 

 

Bennett, Brodie and either Hammer or Hamilton? Possibly Frolik even?

 

Money fits ottawa and talents/potential are pretty decent.  Have to remember, Ottawa is in a bad position like Edmonton back in the day with The Great One, so they are not gonna get as good of a return  with Ryan but I think Ryan still has some

miles and uses as 2nd liine RW, add stone to the top line RW and you have lines that could look like this:

 

Gaudreau, Monahan, Stone

Takchuck ( sp?), Backlund, Ryan

whoever/ klemchuck, Janko, Frolik/frland

whoever, whoever and whoever/ Foo/ferland

 

pretty sure we have good enhugh prospects, that can do well enough to cover the holes in the bottom 6...

 

as for defence, there is Wotherspoon who has been quite good on the last piring, and honestly plenty of prospect depth that can get the job done well enough that the defensive hold should be ok.

 

there are other options, but over all I’m still of the though process we need to move out a few vets like Stajin, versteeg and Brewer...they are more liability and holding spots some of our prospects could actually get in and grow into the NHL especially with openings in the bottom defensive pairings and the bottom 6, more shelters mins yet they get a feel for the speed and tempo of the NHL. 

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well let's look at this from reverse for a second.  We have Mark Stone and the Senators have Dougie Hamilton.

 

Would you trade Stone for Hamilton?  We would leave a massive hole on RW.  We would break apart what might be the best line in the NHL Gaudreau - Monahan - Stone. 

 

I know Hamonic has almost no offense but defensively is comparable to Hamilton, who is becoming increasingly more dependable to your credit.  Still though. The drop off from Stone to Ferland/Frolik is much bigger than the drop off from Hamilton to Hamonic.

 

Yes I would because for me a top pairing Dman trumps a top line winger. id the question was based just on value. 

i also happen to believe the drop down from Hamilton to Hamonic is quite large. 

When I first heard the flame acquired Hamilton, before the return was out, I figured the return would be Gaudrea and I was comfortable with that. So that gives you an idea of what I think about Hamilton. 

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2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Yes I would because for me a top pairing Dman trumps a top line winger. id the question was based just on value. 

i also happen to believe the drop down from Hamilton to Hamonic is quite large. 

 

The drop down from Hamilton to Hamonic is large for sure.  But is it really larger than dropping down from Stone to Ferland when juxtaposed (sheesh words that you will never say in real life but only use when typing)?

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1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

The drop down from Hamilton to Hamonic is large for sure.  But is it really larger than dropping down from Stone to Ferland when juxtaposed (sheesh words that you will never say in real life but only use when typing)?

 

I would honestly say its pretty similar. 

But keep in mind I've really soured on Hamonic so we could have different values on him. 

 

Im certainly not disputing the need to get a RW not in the slightest. I'm just saying I'm not comfortable moving a top pairing RH Dman for it. It's part leaving a massive hole but part a positional thing too.

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1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

So word is that Ottawa is looking to offload Karlsson, preferably by adding Bobby Ryan along with it.  Ryan carries negative trade value due to his salary, so could a deal be done?

 

To Ottawa: Brodie, Ferland, Mangiapane, Conditional 1st in 2020 (Karlsson resigns)

To Calgary: Karlsson, Ryan (2 Million retained)

 

Ottawa gets cheaper, and still gets a 2nd paring defenseman on a value contract, and replaces Ryan with a younger, more productive forward, along with a good prospect and a high draft pick.

Calgary gets a Norris trophy winner and a serviceable 3rd line RW (who actually shoots right), although he would be massively overpaid even with salary retention. 

 

I know it's pie in the sky, and that Ott will likely demand much more, but it seems fair value (Ryan's contract is worse than Brouwers imo).

 

I wouldn't do a Karlsson + Ryan deal unless significant cap hit was held back by the Sens, like 50%.  Even then, you have to understand Karlsson has openly stated he will test UFA as a certainty.  This means we would potentially have Karlsson for the rest of this season and the next.  Then he leaves via UFA. Then we be stuck with Ryan for 4 years.

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7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I wouldn't do a Karlsson + Ryan deal unless significant cap hit was held back by the Sens, like 50%.  Even then, you have to understand Karlsson has openly stated he will test UFA as a certainty.  This means we would potentially have Karlsson for the rest of this season and the next.  Then he leaves via UFA. Then we be stuck with Ryan for 4 years.

If you can't get a gentleman's agreement to extend Karlsson its a definite NO.  Ryan with salary retained and Brouwer in exchange would not be too bad...

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9 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Well here is a thought, what about this:

 

Ryan, Stone and Karlsson

 

for 

 

Bennett, Brodie and either Hammer or Hamilton? Possibly Frolik even?

 

Money fits ottawa and talents/potential are pretty decent.  Have to remember, Ottawa is in a bad position like Edmonton back in the day with The Great One, so they are not gonna get as good of a return  with Ryan but I think Ryan still has some

miles and uses as 2nd liine RW, add stone to the top line RW and you have lines that could look like this:

 

Gaudreau, Monahan, Stone

Takchuck ( sp?), Backlund, Ryan

whoever/ klemchuck, Janko, Frolik/frland

whoever, whoever and whoever/ Foo/ferland

 

pretty sure we have good enhugh prospects, that can do well enough to cover the holes in the bottom 6...

 

as for defence, there is Wotherspoon who has been quite good on the last piring, and honestly plenty of prospect depth that can get the job done well enough that the defensive hold should be ok.

 

there are other options, but over all I’m still of the though process we need to move out a few vets like Stajin, versteeg and Brewer...they are more liability and holding spots some of our prospects could actually get in and grow into the NHL especially with openings in the bottom defensive pairings and the bottom 6, more shelters mins yet they get a feel for the speed and tempo of the NHL. 

Would love to have Stone. Fantastic player. I'm not sure OTT would move these 3, however, Karlsson and Ryan with Hoffman could have potential.

As CGY doesn't have much for picks to send in return, you may have to give up something like Hamilton, Brodie, Brouwer, Ferland, Valimaki (or similar high end young prospect), and a conditional first in 2020 if Karlsson signs an extension with CGY. Karlsson would be a great mentor for Rasmussen going forward which in a strange way may help him resign here. CGY would probably be looking at paying $75 million for a 7 year term to sign Karlsson.

If you want Stone instead of Hoffman (without giving up either Gaudreau or Monahan) you would probably have to add Frolik, another top young prospect / roster player, and high draft pick.

I'm not sure OTT or CGY would do this, but maybe with some tweaking.

If I was Calgary I would definitely look at this further.

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I have read reports that Treliving has been making a lot of calls. I am not sure if that means much at all. The reality is that players are more expensive to acquire at the trade deadline than they are in the off season. Unless a player that seamlessly fits our club becomes available, I don't see us making a significant move. 

 

I also don't think that we are in a position to make a big push in the playoffs this year. Regardless of the reasons, consistency has been elusive. We might not even make the playoffs. So, if we were to pay dearly for a player or two, it could be a waste of precious resources. I think that you acquire rentals or players on short-term deals when you are convinced that you just need to fill a few holes with depth. We are not that club. So, I expect Treliving to remain aware of who becomes available. I just doubt that there will be a deal that he feels compelled to make.

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18 hours ago, ABC923 said:

So word is that Ottawa is looking to offload Karlsson, preferably by adding Bobby Ryan along with it.  Ryan carries negative trade value due to his salary, so could a deal be done?

 

To Ottawa: Brodie, Ferland, Mangiapane, Conditional 1st in 2020 (Karlsson resigns)

To Calgary: Karlsson, Ryan (2 Million retained)

 

Ottawa gets cheaper, and still gets a 2nd paring defenseman on a value contract, and replaces Ryan with a younger, more productive forward, along with a good prospect and a high draft pick.

Calgary gets a Norris trophy winner and a serviceable 3rd line RW (who actually shoots right), although he would be massively overpaid even with salary retention. 

 

I know it's pie in the sky, and that Ott will likely demand much more, but it seems fair value (Ryan's contract is worse than Brouwers imo).

I see OTT doing everything else so they don't have to trade Karlsson which makes sense. One team that might bite on Ryan could be SHS with Thornton out. OTT is either going to have to buy out Ryan or subsidize that contract for a long time.

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2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I see OTT doing everything else so they don't have to trade Karlsson which makes sense. One team that might bite on Ryan could be SHS with Thornton out. OTT is either going to have to buy out Ryan or subsidize that contract for a long time.

 

I think if Ottawa is cleaning house, they’re trading Karlsson too. Karlsson is already unhappy their, and they get more for him now than in the offseason when other teams will see the Sens as desperate to trade him. They’ll know he isn’t going to sign with them.

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8 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I see OTT doing everything else so they don't have to trade Karlsson which makes sense. One team that might bite on Ryan could be SHS with Thornton out. OTT is either going to have to buy out Ryan or subsidize that contract for a long time.

 

I think the exact opposite is happening, they realize they zero chance of re-signing Karlsson so they are trying to maximize their return by trading him now where a team will have two playoff runs with him. Getting rid of Ryan in the same deal is probably an order handed down from the owner.

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23 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think if Ottawa is cleaning house, they’re trading Karlsson too. Karlsson is already unhappy their, and they get more for him now than in the offseason when other teams will see the Sens as desperate to trade him. They’ll know he isn’t going to sign with them.

I have never heard him say he is unhappy there. I think Dorian is definitely trying to give himself options however I don't think you are ever desperate when you have a trade chip like Karlsson.

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8 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I have never heard him say he is unhappy there. I think Dorian is definitely trying to give himself options however I don't think you are ever desperate when you have a trade chip like Karlsson.

 

I have just heard radio guys say it...

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22 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think the exact opposite is happening, they realize they zero chance of re-signing Karlsson so they are trying to maximize their return by trading him now where a team will have two playoff runs with him. Getting rid of Ryan in the same deal is probably an order handed down from the owner.

There is a couple of ways to consider the options OTT has in front of them. I think it is a bad strategy( if it is one) to saddle any Karlsson deal with a Ryan attachment.

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3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I have just heard radio guys say it...

It could be true but I have seen him in interviews say the opposite. It's all spin but as things go sour spin is easier to believe.

They have now unloaded two significant contracts in Phaneuf and Brassard which starts buying some budget space for Stone. There best value to move Karlsson is now and it wouldn't shock me that another team selling assets would be the perfect buyer the NYRs.

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4 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

There is a couple of ways to consider the options OTT has in front of them. I think it is a bad strategy( if it is one) to saddle any Karlsson deal with a Ryan attachment.

 

Melnyk just fired the CEO of the Senators and named himself the CEO. He wants a new downtown arena, but is looking to gut this team. Their season ticket renewals are at an all time low for the franchise, I can see the fan base giving up on that team. Melnyk has no idea what he doing there. I think that team loses a lot of money and he is just desperate to shed salary. 

 

Similarly I think BT's marching orders from ownership is to make the playoffs regardless of the cost, you know because we are apparently a have not team now.

 

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7 hours ago, 7wit said:

Would love to have Stone. Fantastic player. I'm not sure OTT would move these 3, however, Karlsson and Ryan with Hoffman could have potential.

As CGY doesn't have much for picks to send in return, you may have to give up something like Hamilton, Brodie, Brouwer, Ferland, Valimaki (or similar high end young prospect), and a conditional first in 2020 if Karlsson signs an extension with CGY. Karlsson would be a great mentor for Rasmussen going forward which in a strange way may help him resign here. CGY would probably be looking at paying $75 million for a 7 year term to sign Karlsson.

If you want Stone instead of Hoffman (without giving up either Gaudreau or Monahan) you would probably have to add Frolik, another top young prospect / roster player, and high draft pick.

I'm not sure OTT or CGY would do this, but maybe with some tweaking.

If I was Calgary I would definitely look at this further.

It would take something like that to land any combination of those Ottawa players. The problem is that with a 50 man limit for rosters the Sens couldn't absorb that many contracts.

Your value is much closer than that in many posts.

 

I didn't notice the name in other posts but see you are fairly new. Welcome aboard.

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13 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Melnyk just fired the CEO of the Senators and named himself the CEO. He wants a new downtown arena, but is looking to gut this team. Their season ticket renewals are at an all time low for the franchise, I can see the fan base giving up on that team. Melnyk has no idea what he doing there. I think that team loses a lot of money and he is just desperate to shed salary. 

 

Similarly I think BT's marching orders from ownership is to make the playoffs regardless of the cost, you know because we are apparently a have not team now.

 

Certain realities usually settle in and set the agenda. I have said this before but Murray was not a very good GM and sometimes there is a clean up/out job to do. Dorian has made some bold moves to correct some of what was left but I am sure he wants to steer the team in a positive direction given there are still some very good players there. Moving Karlsson for some good pieces would be smart IMO. Moving Ryan at a cost would also be a pill to swallow now. Keeping a top line of Hoffman, Duchene and Stone would be a smart decision.

BTW I don't think those are BT's marching orders, sure more money from playoff hockey helps the cause but it doesn't mean you make desperate moves. Someone would have to show me the numbers in order to prove the Flames are a losing proposition.

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39 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Melnyk just fired the CEO of the Senators and named himself the CEO. He wants a new downtown arena, but is looking to gut this team. Their season ticket renewals are at an all time low for the franchise, I can see the fan base giving up on that team. Melnyk has no idea what he doing there. I think that team loses a lot of money and he is just desperate to shed salary. 

 

Similarly I think BT's marching orders from ownership is to make the playoffs regardless of the cost, you know because we are apparently a have not team now.

 

 

I think OTT is failin for Dahlin.

They already had a rep for being a cheap team.

They have no intention of re-signing Karlsson if it's for $10m.  No way.

Hoffman is getting to be a bit old for a rebuild team.  He won't last there.

Stone and Duchene are the core pieces right now.

 

 

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