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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

This is one of the more natural fits I think. Burakovsky was a bit of a breakout candidate this year and it hasn't happened but there is a very solid skill package there. As someone who can play either wing he's a great fit. He is the type of winger I was hoping Treliving would be targeting at the deadline/offseson. I think even with Carlsson Washington has a need for Brodie, I just don't know if Brodie is a Trotz style dman but the fit is there. Worth monitoring I think. 

 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with this in theory but one thing I would point out is that Gaudreau-Mony - Ferland were one of the best lines in the NHL at 5 on 5. Ferland has some issues but that line produced and I do think Ferland has been playing hurt for a while. 

 

 

 

I love the size and skill combination that Burakovsky brings, there are some question marks there, but I think if you brought him in and played him consistently in the top 6 he would produce. 

 

On Ferland, it could be possible that he has been playing hurt, that being said I think I would like to see a prolonged look at Bennett on this line, I think that line has been dangerous, we have just run into a couple hot goalies the last two nights. I think Bennett is also better defensively than he gets credit for and should help this line in that regard.

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On 2018-02-28 at 7:06 AM, MAC331 said:

The game is changing and I'm not sure I agree with your thinking here. Use Backlund as an example, he spent time both in the minors and in a checking role when first in the NHL. Working your way in and learning as you go is not a bad plan these days IMO. If we want both checking and secondary scoring contributions from the 4th line you need to have the type of players capable of providing the results.

 

I think it’s a case-by-case basis with players. Some need to be developed in the AHL, some can be at the NHL. 

 

Look ok at Lazar, had he developed in the A and possibly another year of JR, maybe he’d be a different player. Is this all he would’ve been? We will never know. 

 

Maybe Dube can develop as he goes. I sure as hell don’t want this coaching staff near him if that’s the plan, to develop him in the NHL. They don’t seem interested in developing or playing youth in the NHL. They sit until there is an injury. 

 

I want ant a guy like DUBE playing a lot and playing big roles. 

 

I think ink I can agree with both of you, and there’s proof that both paths can ruin a player.

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Dammit.

Can we have Konecny FF?

Out of goodwill of course, lol.

What is the price on Konecny, as a FF?

Don't worry, I know it's large, lol.

Just out of interest.

Don't even ask as the Flames don't have it.

With the Flyers doing that well unexpectedly Hex added Mzarek as he figured the players deserved an NHL goalie (& to let Hart develop rather than throw him into the fire) but maintains his stance that this is only year 4 of a complete turn around that will take a few more years. Konecny is 1 of the forwards for that rebuild & he'll add 2 more in the 2018 draft (he has the St.L pick top 10 proected) but found Konecny @ #24 so should be doing alright.

 

The Jets have 10 important RFAs to re-sign this year with the most importantant being Trouba, Helle, Lowry & Morrissey IMO. They also have to leave room for Laine next year. That leaves some good 1s like Armia (who impresses me more every game) plus other decnt 1s & guys on the Moose that look ready for prime time (Poolman looks ready on D). With only $20ish million in cap Chevy will have to make some hard decisions. That's the down side of amassing good players via drat in multiple years. It also means a return of cap dumps or lesser prospects is unacceptable.

That's where the Flames should be looking. The currancy that Calgary has is prospects still in junior with the full 3 years of ELC left. With only the 1st this year that's critical to add a good young 1 as well.

Also, Hendricks will be UFA & looks to have a lot left in the tank. As a settling influence on youth or the versatility he'd be worth looking at.

 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Oh I have zero problem with leaving Bennett out there, zero problem with trying Tkachuk there. By all means if the Flames can find an internal replacement please do. Point was I think Ferland deserves a little more credit as he is part of one of the best lines in hockey. The Flames top line is not the issue it's the fact that they are getting very little out of the other 3 lines that is the major issue here. The focus needs to be on improving them and I think improving the top line via trade/FA is going to be extremely difficult. Improving the next two lines, not so much. 

 

That chart lists 5 on 5 goal differential so i'm not really sure its fair to say its heavy metrics driven. I'ts a pretty standard piece of data that personally backs up my eye tests. They are inconsistent but I do think the Flames have one of the best lines in the NHL but it is mostly dervied by the fact that Johnny-Mony are one of the best pairs in the NHL. 

 

It's a tall order for a player like Ferland to handle the heat the top line gets, playing on his off wing.  He's done well for part of the season.  He tailed off, but then again the top line had a drought for the last 10 games or so, save for a few big nights.  I don;t know that Bennett has been any better in that spot.  He's a C, playing normally on LW, now being asked to play on RW, with a guy that will get you the puck every time.  Monahan struggles finishing.  Bennett struggles to get the shot off.

 

Personally, I think the issue with the top line starts with the backend.  Brodie-Hamonic seems to play with the top line more than Gio-Hamilton, except on the PP.  How many shifts start with the top line and the 2nd pair turn into a cluster-F in the D-zone.  More than I care to watch.  

 

I tend to get down on a few players, but those few players are undoing a lot of the good work of the top lines.  I personally don't care if they trade/demote/buy-out Brouwer, I just want them to better manage his usage.  He's never going to drive play.  He can add to a line that is producing, but only in certain ways.  Stone and Brodie are killing us most nights.  I like about 50% of what I see from Brodie.  Much less of what I see of Stone.  Don;t bother taking a slapshot because you can;t even get it close.  Hathaway and Lazar don't really do it for me.  They have great work ethic, but are basically just taking up roster spots.  They really don't make this team better.  Maybe they will, but they just play hard right now.  Stewart is nothing great.      

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20 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it’s a case-by-case basis with players. Some need to be developed in the AHL, some can be at the NHL. 

 

Look ok at Lazar, had he developed in the A and possibly another year of JR, maybe he’d be a different player. Is this all he would’ve been? We will never know. 

 

Maybe Dube can develop as he goes. I sure as hell don’t want this coaching staff near him if that’s the plan, to develop him in the NHL. They don’t seem interested in developing or playing youth in the NHL. They sit until there is an injury. 

 

I want ant a guy like DUBE playing a lot and playing big roles. 

 

I think ink I can agree with both of you, and there’s proof that both paths can ruin a player.

I don't think you can go mindlessly about developing these talented players and the fact exists witin a cap world you can't keep everyone. I think you have to look at your team and decide first if you have the right spot for a Dube to play, if not put him in the AHL. As the Flames were rebuilding they had openings for Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett and Tkachuk while at the same time it was in the team interests to get a new core in place sooner than later. I would say they forced a few situations but will come out the better for it as early as next season.

Guys like Lazar will either make it by pure determination and be "late bloomers" are they will fade away. I would have liked to have seen him used on the 3rd line with Bennett and Tkachuk to start this season but that didn't happen with the Jagr experiment. Now his only chance IMO is either 4th line C or RW shine or resign.

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3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think you can go mindlessly about developing these talented players and the fact exists witin a cap world you can't keep everyone. I think you have to look at your team and decide first if you have the right spot for a Dube to play, if not put him in the AHL. As the Flames were rebuilding they had openings for Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett and Tkachuk while at the same time it was in the team interests to get a new core in place sooner than later. I would say they forced a few situations but will come out the better for it as early as next season.

Guys like Lazar will either make it by pure determination and be "late bloomers" are they will fade away. I would have liked to have seen him used on the 3rd line with Bennett and Tkachuk to start this season but that didn't happen with the Jagr experiment. Now his only chance IMO is either 4th line C or RW shine or resign.

 

 

Thats is what I mean about the youth on the team with this staff. They’ve shown it with Bartlowski playing over Kulak, and Witherspoon... Then even with Lazar when they got Jagr. It’s why I worry about Dube, if all he can do is play 4th...

 

could Dube play with Bennett, or with Bennett and Jankowski? Is Bennett as a C over?

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2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's a tall order for a player like Ferland to handle the heat the top line gets, playing on his off wing.  He's done well for part of the season.  He tailed off, but then again the top line had a drought for the last 10 games or so, save for a few big nights.  I don;t know that Bennett has been any better in that spot.  He's a C, playing normally on LW, now being asked to play on RW, with a guy that will get you the puck every time.  Monahan struggles finishing.  Bennett struggles to get the shot off.

 

Personally, I think the issue with the top line starts with the backend.  Brodie-Hamonic seems to play with the top line more than Gio-Hamilton, except on the PP.  How many shifts start with the top line and the 2nd pair turn into a cluster-F in the D-zone.  More than I care to watch.  

 

I tend to get down on a few players, but those few players are undoing a lot of the good work of the top lines.  I personally don't care if they trade/demote/buy-out Brouwer, I just want them to better manage his usage.  He's never going to drive play.  He can add to a line that is producing, but only in certain ways.  Stone and Brodie are killing us most nights.  I like about 50% of what I see from Brodie.  Much less of what I see of Stone.  Don;t bother taking a slapshot because you can;t even get it close.  Hathaway and Lazar don't really do it for me.  They have great work ethic, but are basically just taking up roster spots.  They really don't make this team better.  Maybe they will, but they just play hard right now.  Stewart is nothing great.      

I was never a big fan of the Stewart pickup, but at the same time, it didn’t cost us anything.  At the end of the season, have a nice day.

i have been a Brodie fan from the beginning; especially after he was needed to support, and usually exceed Bowmeester’s play, which if people have forgotten as constantly criticizied.  When he left, I can’t remember the amount of people stated his poor play was the result of being misused.  Brodie is no different now. His play when placed on the right side was far superior, so for the love of Pete, play to his strengths, and play him on the right side!

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21 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Thats is what I mean about the youth on the team with this staff. They’ve shown it with Bartlowski playing over Kulak, and Witherspoon... Then even with Lazar when they got Jagr. It’s why I worry about Dube, if all he can do is play 4th...

 

could Dube play with Bennett, or with Bennett and Jankowski? Is Bennett as a C over?

I can't answer those questions and this is why I would love to see Bennett finish out this season playing top line RW.

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11 minutes ago, flames for life said:

I was never a big fan of the Stewart pickup, but at the same time, it didn’t cost us anything.  At the end of the season, have a nice day.

i have been a Brodie fan from the beginning; especially after he was needed to support, and usually exceed Bowmeester’s play, which if people have forgotten as constantly criticizied.  When he left, I can’t remember the amount of people stated his poor play was the result of being misused.  Brodie is no different now. His play when placed on the right side was far superior, so for the love of Pete, play to his strengths, and play him on the right side!

 

I've resigned myself to watching Brodie play on the LD.  The top pair is clicking.  Not much you can do with the other pairs.  Sit Stone, bring up Andersson, play Hamonic with Andersson and play Kulak with Brodie on RD.  Means you have to reduce Brodie's pair to 15-18 minutes and play Hamonic's about the same.  I'm okay with that, but you know it's not happening this season.

 

Stone should get moved this summer.  So should Brodie.  Just my opinion since we are so deep on D prospects that we have to do it sometime.  AT least Brodie should bring back a top 6 winger.  If Ferland can regain his confidence for next year, then we should replace Frolik on the 2nd line and move him to Janko's line with Bennett.  If not, then we have a top line RW.

 

Top 9 (with Ferland on 1st)

JH-Mony-Ferland

Tkachuk-Backlund-RW

Bennett-Janko-Frolik

 

Top 9 (Ferland dropped down)

JH-Mony-RW

Tkachuk-Backlund-Ferland

Bennett-Janko-Frolik

 

 

 

 

 

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Right Side Defence:

I would like to see Michael Stone traded (hopefully at the 2018 entry draft for a pick(s).

His NTC has him listing 15 teams that he will not accept a trade to.

It's not that I have any hate for Stone, but the Flames need draft picks right now, and I'm sure that there is a ready replacement in house.

I am quite confident that Rasmus Andersson could step in as the RD on the 3rd pairing right now.

I think that Andersson's ceiling is as a 2nd pairing RD, with 2nd unit PP time.

Travis Hamonic's contract expires at the end of 2019/2020, so I am expecting that he will be traded prior to July 1, 2020.

Andersson could potentially move up and take his spot at that time.

Hopefully, Adam Fox will be ready for the bottom pairing by then.

I doubt that Dalton Prout ever plays another NHL game, and don't have any hope that Cody Goloubef will ever play in one. 

 

Left Side Defence:

Trading Brodie would leave an immediate hole on the left side, and the Flames really do not have many in house options.

I will be happy if Matt Bartkowski never plays another game for the Flames.

Tyler Wotherspoon probably tops out as a #6 or #7D. as I doubt that he will provide much offence in the NHL.

Oliver Kylington is only 20, but will he ever have the strength and defensive awareness required for the NHL?

Juuso Valimaki is the prospect that I have great hopes for. I can see him potentially becoming a Top pairing D for the Flames (2nd pairing at worst). That said, I think that he'll play at least one season in the AHL, before his NHL debut with the Flames.

Barring a major surprise, I doubt that any of Colby Roback, Mike McMurty, Oleg Yevenko, Josh Healy, and Adam Oilas-Mattsson ever play in the NHL.

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^^^^^

It may sound crazy, but most teams do not have LHS-RHS pairs all the way through their 6D.

Having 2 RHS on the same pair is no more of a stretch than 2 LHS's.  

Give me two capable D-man regardless of handedness.

 

No, I do not think Bart should be anywhere near this team. If there is any injury, I want BT to send him down to the farm.  That or have a chat with Gully.

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14 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Thats is what I mean about the youth on the team with this staff. They’ve shown it with Bartlowski playing over Kulak, and Witherspoon... Then even with Lazar when they got Jagr. It’s why I worry about Dube, if all he can do is play 4th...

 

could Dube play with Bennett, or with Bennett and Jankowski? Is Bennett as a C over?

Firstly I do think Bennett's C days are over wit the signing of Backlund. We have Bennett on another cheap year contract to see if he pans out and if he cannot do it on the top line RW it won't happen IMO. The way it would appear now Dube will do a season in Stockton. Here is my only other thought with Bennett and TD has mentioned this, is to play Bennett LW with Backlund and move Tkachuk with Jankowski which could also be good alignments. Ferland on the top line RW has proved out to a certain degree and could remain there but I still think BT needs to keep building our RW side. Is Foo going to be NHL ready next season ? If so which line is best for him ? Personally I favor keeping Backlund and Frolik together so should Foo be ready I see a line of Tkachuk, Jankowski and Foo. These two could use someone with Foo's speed and here is where someone such as Lazar could be of more use backing up this position.

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14 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I've resigned myself to watching Brodie play on the LD.  The top pair is clicking.  Not much you can do with the other pairs.  Sit Stone, bring up Andersson, play Hamonic with Andersson and play Kulak with Brodie on RD.  Means you have to reduce Brodie's pair to 15-18 minutes and play Hamonic's about the same.  I'm okay with that, but you know it's not happening this season.

 

Stone should get moved this summer.  So should Brodie.  Just my opinion since we are so deep on D prospects that we have to do it sometime.  AT least Brodie should bring back a top 6 winger.  If Ferland can regain his confidence for next year, then we should replace Frolik on the 2nd line and move him to Janko's line with Bennett.  If not, then we have a top line RW.

 

Top 9 (with Ferland on 1st)

JH-Mony-Ferland

Tkachuk-Backlund-RW

Bennett-Janko-Frolik

 

Top 9 (Ferland dropped down)

JH-Mony-RW

Tkachuk-Backlund-Ferland

Bennett-Janko-Frolik

 

 

 

 

 

Why do you think Ferland has lost his confidence ? 

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12 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

Right Side Defence:

I would like to see Michael Stone traded (hopefully at the 2018 entry draft for a pick(s).

His NTC has him listing 15 teams that he will not accept a trade to.

It's not that I have any hate for Stone, but the Flames need draft picks right now, and I'm sure that there is a ready replacement in house.

I am quite confident that Rasmus Andersson could step in as the RD on the 3rd pairing right now.

I think that Andersson's ceiling is as a 2nd pairing RD, with 2nd unit PP time.

Travis Hamonic's contract expires at the end of 2019/2020, so I am expecting that he will be traded prior to July 1, 2020.

Andersson could potentially move up and take his spot at that time.

Hopefully, Adam Fox will be ready for the bottom pairing by then.

I doubt that Dalton Prout ever plays another NHL game, and don't have any hope that Cody Goloubef will ever play in one. 

 

Left Side Defence:

Trading Brodie would leave an immediate hole on the left side, and the Flames really do not have many in house options.

I will be happy if Matt Bartkowski never plays another game for the Flames.

Tyler Wotherspoon probably tops out as a #6 or #7D. as I doubt that he will provide much offence in the NHL.

Oliver Kylington is only 20, but will he ever have the strength and defensive awareness required for the NHL?

Juuso Valimaki is the prospect that I have great hopes for. I can see him potentially becoming a Top pairing D for the Flames (2nd pairing at worst). That said, I think that he'll play at least one season in the AHL, before his NHL debut with the Flames.

Barring a major surprise, I doubt that any of Colby Roback, Mike McMurty, Oleg Yevenko, Josh Healy, and Adam Oilas-Mattsson ever play in the NHL.

I agree with Stone being moved for pick(s) prior to this coming draft. This allows Andersson into the regular mix for next season. This leaves the farm thin of RHS defensemen which can be covered by adding a few journeymen.

In regards to our LSD we could see where the decision is to keep Brodie for another season while Valimaki develops in Stockton for a year. The bigger question will be do you leave Brodie and Hamonic together or split them up with Kulak/Hamonic and Brodie/Andersson so the experience is used for each pairing. I would think Wotherspoon would FINALLY be deserving of the 7th defenceman spot.

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23 hours ago, ABC923 said:

If we pretend for a moment that Tavares has even a slight chance of coming here, you are suddenly overloaded at center.  You would be paying over 20 million for three centres, all of whom are left shots.  We don't have that kind of cap space, so a trade would be necessary just to make it work.  It would however give you the chance to recoup some draft picks or other assets, as you trade someone like Monahan or Jankowski or Backlund.

Gaudreau-Tavares-Monahan would be our ideal #1 line.  The 3M line is fine as is, and Bennett-Jankowski-Ferland? (Foo/Gawdin/Mangiapanne?Poirier) line is good at #3.  That would be about $18 for our top 3 Centres, and if Dube plugs in at #4 only another $800k or so for all four.  If you want to supercharge a  second line make it Bennett-Jankowski-Tkachuk....

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Honestly, I think trading Stone would be the best move.  It would give you a chance to break up the Hamonic-Brodie pair, which doesn't work well.  Play the bottom two pairs as if they were equal, and maybe shoot for something like a bottom 4 that are all #4 defensemen.  Maybe have Valimaki play with Brodie, and Hamonic play with Kulak.  If not, I would like to see them try new pairings in the preseason.  Maybe Stone-Brodie (seemed to work okay last season) and Kulak-Hamonic, or maybe try Brodie-Hamilton as a pair again (I know it didn't work last time, but Hamilton took some time to click with the team at all).

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17 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Honestly, I think trading Stone would be the best move.  It would give you a chance to break up the Hamonic-Brodie pair, which doesn't work well.  Play the bottom two pairs as if they were equal, and maybe shoot for something like a bottom 4 that are all #4 defensemen.  Maybe have Valimaki play with Brodie, and Hamonic play with Kulak.  If not, I would like to see them try new pairings in the preseason.  Maybe Stone-Brodie (seemed to work okay last season) and Kulak-Hamonic, or maybe try Brodie-Hamilton as a pair again (I know it didn't work last time, but Hamilton took some time to click with the team at all).

Here are my thoughts. I agree with breaking up Brodie and Hamonic but not Giordano and Hamilton. Play Brodie with Andersson trade Stone. Play Hamonic with Kulak, if they want more experience with Hamonic trade Kulak within a package for this need or some other need. I think Kulak built some value up this season with his good play.

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3 hours ago, ABC923 said:

Honestly, I think trading Stone would be the best move.  It would give you a chance to break up the Hamonic-Brodie pair, which doesn't work well.  Play the bottom two pairs as if they were equal, and maybe shoot for something like a bottom 4 that are all #4 defensemen.  Maybe have Valimaki play with Brodie, and Hamonic play with Kulak.  If not, I would like to see them try new pairings in the preseason.  Maybe Stone-Brodie (seemed to work okay last season) and Kulak-Hamonic, or maybe try Brodie-Hamilton as a pair again (I know it didn't work last time, but Hamilton took some time to click with the team at all).

 

I think Stone is a must trade, if you can, for sure but i'm not sure that constitutes a major trade.

 

When I read that I'm thinking they are shopping Brodie. When I see major trade I thik that means someone who has been here a while. 

 

this goes back a few posts and talking about Washington. I was listening to Friedman and Marek's podcast and Friedman mentioned he thought Washington was in the market for a dman at the trade deadline in addition to some of the depth dman they picked. He felt they nibbled around McDonaugh and Karlsson but ultimately weren't going to go there and he felt they probably lacked the means to pull that off. Really makes me wonder if the Flames-Caps can talk in the off-season centered around Brodie. As a cost effective dman I can see Brodie of great interest to Washington and there are several pieces on the Caps that would fit the needs of the Flames. Something to think about. 

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4 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Why do you think Ferland has lost his confidence ? 

 

When he is confident, he is unstoppable.  He shoots.  He hits.  He passes.  He goes to the net and bangs home rebounds.

When he loses his confidence, he is marginal.  He passes off on zone entries.  He drop passes.  He doesn't shoot.

 

When I say confidence, I mean that he isn;t afraid that a simple mistake will cause him to get 3rd line duty.  You see the same thing with Lazar.  I would rather they play the guys and account for the good things, not just the mistakes.  Lazar may not be a top 6 guy, but he deserves to play over Glass.

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20 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

When he is confident, he is unstoppable.  He shoots.  He hits.  He passes.  He goes to the net and bangs home rebounds.

When he loses his confidence, he is marginal.  He passes off on zone entries.  He drop passes.  He doesn't shoot.

 

When I say confidence, I mean that he isn;t afraid that a simple mistake will cause him to get 3rd line duty.  You see the same thing with Lazar.  I would rather they play the guys and account for the good things, not just the mistakes.  Lazar may not be a top 6 guy, but he deserves to play over Glass.

You need to take into account if the player is injured and trying to play through it. Ferland has no reason to not be confident. Maybe Lazar is injured as well.

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3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

You need to take into account if the player is injured and trying to play through it. Ferland has no reason to not be confident. Maybe Lazar is injured as well.

 

Unknown if that is the case, but look at the facts:

From the start of the season to February 9th, he onl went longer than 2 games without a point once (5 games early in the season when he played around 10 minutes).

From February 9 to his last game (7 games), he scored zero points.  Two of those games he only played 13 minutes.  The last one was the one he left in.

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1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

Unknown if that is the case, but look at the facts:

From the start of the season to February 9th, he onl went longer than 2 games without a point once (5 games early in the season when he played around 10 minutes).

From February 9 to his last game (7 games), he scored zero points.  Two of those games he only played 13 minutes.  The last one was the one he left in.

Unknown is right but a good guess he has been hurt since the drop off.

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22 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Unknown is right but a good guess he has been hurt since the drop off.

 

So, you link it to an injury, even though he was playing full games. 

He didn't appear to be injured.  He was skating hard, just not doing much else.

He wasn't producing points.

Before that, there were games that JH wasn't scoring, but Ferland was.

Whatever. 

 

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58 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, you link it to an injury, even though he was playing full games. 

He didn't appear to be injured.  He was skating hard, just not doing much else.

He wasn't producing points.

Before that, there were games that JH wasn't scoring, but Ferland was.

Whatever. 

 

He's only suggesting the possibility td, you 2 aren't going to do this again, are you?

All we know is Ferland's out, and our roster is really wearing down to Satoshi Nakamotoe.

We need our best players to stop acting like sissies and show some fight.

If we continue to be this dainty when things start going against us, that's a huge problem.

We have to find our backbone or we're going to be in another rebuild with a different approach.

Our true assets are our core players, they need to get this figured out.

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