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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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On 4/12/2018 at 6:17 PM, robrob74 said:

 

Ya, even if we could get a 3rd out of the deal, it kind of recoups what we gave up for him. Not quite, but to free the spot, for Anderssson, it could be worth it. Go for more, but the trade off can be cap space and the roster spot.

Unlikely we trade Brouwer. Flames won't because the return would be minimal and other teams won't offer much even if we keep a good portion of his salary.

 

He brings leadership in the dressing room, experience in playoffs, assuming we make the playoffs and seems to have the confidence of the coaches and management for multiple roles. He is not a big enough disappointment to bury or buy out so the Flames won't.

 

The cap is likely going up to about 81 mil. We don't have cap issues even if we sign Tkachuk, so he is not a hindrance to our cap that way. He is a BT signing so will play out his contract.

 

I realize a lot of you think he should be gone but we are RW weak and he is a RW with vet experience. He wont go anywhere unless we pick up 2 RW's who can play a higher role than him.(top 6)

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1 hour ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Unlikely we trade Brouwer. Flames won't because the return would be minimal and other teams won't offer much even if we keep a good portion of his salary.

 

He brings leadership in the dressing room, experience in playoffs, assuming we make the playoffs and seems to have the confidence of the coaches and management for multiple roles. He is not a big enough disappointment to bury or buy out so the Flames won't.

 

The cap is likely going up to about 81 mil. We don't have cap issues even if we sign Tkachuk, so he is not a hindrance to our cap that way. He is a BT signing so will play out his contract.

 

I realize a lot of you think he should be gone but we are RW weak and he is a RW with vet experience. He wont go anywhere unless we pick up 2 RWE's who can play a higher role than him.(top 6)

 

It makes sense, but it doesn’t make it right, it makes it what is totally wrong with the team. Optics. It doesn’t look got to many fans that Brouwer gets as much as he does without the desired results. The coach isn’t interested in scoring as much as he is interested in the player to play his system 100% correctly. 

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On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎12 at 6:17 PM, robrob74 said:

 

Ya, even if we could get a 3rd out of the deal, it kind of recoups what we gave up for him. Not quite, but to free the spot, for Anderssson, it could be worth it. Go for more, but the trade off can be cap space and the roster spot.

Well my Hitchcock angle to trade Brouwer is gone LOL maybe. Brouwer for Spezza could still be an option but BT should explore other one beforehand. In response to DD's comments regarding Brouwer it is totally possible that he remains. We still need to build our RW side and if they were to keep Brouwer and play him 4th line BT likely goes with lesser cost options such as Foo for one RW spot. If this were to prevail I would hope the budget allows the persuit of someone like James Neal for our top line.

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53 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Well my Hitchcock angle to trade Brouwer is gone LOL maybe. Brouwer for Spezza could still be an option but BT should explore other one beforehand. In response to DD's comments regarding Brouwer it is totally possible that he remains. We still need to build our RW side and if they were to keep Brouwer and play him 4th line BT likely goes with lesser cost options such as Foo for one RW spot. If this were to prevail I would hope the budget allows the persuit of someone like James Neal for our top line.

 

How old is Neal? How long will he play at this level?

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Neal is the quintessential example of a player about to sign a big money contract he can’t possibly live up to.  We would be smart to look elsewhere.

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6 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Neal is the quintessential example of a player about to sign a big money contract he can’t possibly live up to.  We would be smart to look elsewhere.

Add to that BT has shown a tendency to overpay his acquired Free Agents..

 

maybe someone else can negotiate the Free Agent acquisitions for him at a decent term and cost..

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When you go after marquee free agents you overpay. That isn't a Treliving thing, it's league wide. July 1st is one of the most overrated days on the hockey schedule for a reason. Be thankful his mistake is Brouwer and not Ericsson, Ladd, Okposo or the other ridiculously overpaid wingers that were available that summer. 

 

The key is not shopping on July 1

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1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

Neal is the quintessential example of a player about to sign a big money contract he can’t possibly live up to.  We would be smart to look elsewhere.

I am all ears, where ?

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1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I am all ears, where ?

I doubt we can address our needs for scoring talent in free agency, so I would suggest a trade.  Plenty more options going that route.

 

If free agency is where we must go, I would obviously prefer Tavares (not going to happen).  Other options could be Van Riemsdyk (also unlikely, but his age makes signing a bit more palatable), Evander Kane (if you don't mind taking a risk that he vanishes after signing), Grabner (who is lower profile than Neal, so might be had for less term), Vanek (constant journeyman, right shot, scores, could probably sign for 3 years), Perron (another point producing journeyman, could be relatively affordable).

 

The key for me is term (outside of Tavares and van Riemsdyk, who are still in their 20s).  Most UFAs are over 30, so signing for more than 4 years is a huge risk.  I could see Neal landing for 6x6, which is 1 million more than I would want to pay him, and 3 years longer.  I like Neal, don't get me wrong, he just has a lot of buzz right now as one of the top UFAs this year, and my spidey sense tells me he gets overpaid in $ and term.  We don't want to repeat Edmonton's Lucic mistake.

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30 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I doubt we can address our needs for scoring talent in free agency, so I would suggest a trade.  Plenty more options going that route.

 

If free agency is where we must go, I would obviously prefer Tavares (not going to happen).  Other options could be Van Riemsdyk (also unlikely, but his age makes signing a bit more palatable), Evander Kane (if you don't mind taking a risk that he vanishes after signing), Grabner (who is lower profile than Neal, so might be had for less term), Vanek (constant journeyman, right shot, scores, could probably sign for 3 years), Perron (another point producing journeyman, could be relatively affordable).

 

The key for me is term (outside of Tavares and van Riemsdyk, who are still in their 20s).  Most UFAs are over 30, so signing for more than 4 years is a huge risk.  I could see Neal landing for 6x6, which is 1 million more than I would want to pay him, and 3 years longer.  I like Neal, don't get me wrong, he just has a lot of buzz right now as one of the top UFAs this year, and my spidey sense tells me he gets overpaid in $ and term.  We don't want to repeat Edmonton's Lucic mistake.

I wouldn't disagree that going 6x6 would be wrong for us. I would go 4x6 because not only does Neal bring scoring I think he provides leadership and a winning attitude something we need more of by the sounds of things.

The only other trade situation that comes to mind is something like Brouwer and Mangiapane to DAL for Spezza as a 1 year fix and hold. This buys us a year to see what we have in the likes of Foo, Gawdin and even Lazar next season. I know some will gringe at Spezza but maybe he comes in and has a great season with Gaudreau and Monahan.

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The list of player that are UFA doesn't excite me that much.

Tavares is a player you can swing for the fences for, but where doe he fit?  Replace Monahan on the top line, and we have a top line center that has be used elsewhere.

Move him to LW and JH to RW?  Awesome.  $22m or thereabouts for a top 3.

Move him to 2nd line with Backlund and we have to find a new home for Tkachuk and Ferland.

 

There are lesser players available in UFA that might be reasonable, but you need to swoop in and likely overpay.

Perron is a player I like.  Does Vegas pay for his career year or let him walk?

He probably signs for around $4-5m.

I like Statsny, but he's coming off $7.5m, so I would stay away.

 

Think we may have to look at trading for a RFA.  Talk to his agent before we pull the trigger (with the team's ok) to know what he's looking for.

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I am very intrigued in ROR. I think he would be the ideal linemate for Tkachuk

How's this for 3 pairs;

Gaudreau-Monahan

Tkachuk-ROR

Frolik-Backlund

 

Big issue here is I think a lot of teams will be in on him. If Tavares doesn't hit UFA, ROR may be the best "available" C

 

I think MTL, SJ, STL, CAR off the top of my head would be in on ROR as well. 

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47 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I am very intrigued in ROR. I think he would be the ideal linemate for Tkachuk

How's this for 3 pairs;

Gaudreau-Monahan

Tkachuk-ROR

Frolik-Backlund

 

Big issue here is I think a lot of teams will be in on him. If Tavares doesn't hit UFA, ROR may be the best "available" C

 

I think MTL, SJ, STL, CAR off the top of my head would be in on ROR as well. 

 

 

Think you may be mixing up players.

ROR has a long term deal.

If you mean trading for him, then the cost would be high.

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15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Think you may be mixing up players.

ROR has a long term deal.

If you mean trading for him, then the cost would be high.

Yes, but with his recent comments he may be available via trade. Teams that miss on JT will likely shift their focus to ROR

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4 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I wouldn't disagree that going 6x6 would be wrong for us. I would go 4x6 because not only does Neal bring scoring I think he provides leadership and a winning attitude something we need more of by the sounds of things.

The only other trade situation that comes to mind is something like Brouwer and Mangiapane to DAL for Spezza as a 1 year fix and hold. This buys us a year to see what we have in the likes of Foo, Gawdin and even Lazar next season. I know some will gringe at Spezza but maybe he comes in and has a great season with Gaudreau and Monahan.

Why would anyone give up ~10 years of Mangiapane for 1 year of Spezza?   Hard to imagine.....

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12 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Why would anyone give up ~10 years of Mangiapane for 1 year of Spezza?   Hard to imagine.....

Where do you see a fit for Mangiapane here ? Maybe something else comes back from DAL. If a simply Brouwer for Spezza would work do that.

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19 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Tavares is a player you can swing for the fences for, but where doe he fit?  Replace Monahan on the top line, and we have a top line center that has be used elsewhere.

 

Perron is a player I like.  Does Vegas pay for his career year or let him walk?

He probably signs for around $4-5m.

 

If for some reason JT signs in Calgary, and I'm assuming he does so at a reasonable cap hit (<10 mil) I think going Tavares, Monahan, Backlund down the middle won't be much of a problem, finding some right-shot RW will be.

 

Tkachuk-Tavares-Bennett

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland

Jankowski-Backlund-Frolik

Lazar-Shore-Hathaway

 

This would still leave us without any right-shot, top-9, RWs. I think there's less than a 1% chance JT comes to Calgary if he actually hits the market.

 

I also think you are underestimating what Perron will get as a UFA. Someone will overpay for him IMO.

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2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Where do you see a fit for Mangiapane here ? Maybe something else comes back from DAL. If a simply Brouwer for Spezza would work do that.

Right now what do we have for LW?  Gaudreau, check.  Tkachuk, check.  Both of whom I bet could/have played RW at various points... but, I digress.  Bennett (if he doesn't get traded), check.  Then a bunch of possibilities for 4th LW.  To me there are multiple options for Mangiapanne and for a team looking for skill/scoring upgrades he should be right at the top of our list for getting onto the team.  Personally I'd be looking at trading Bennett and putting Mangiapanne with Jankowski, but in reality there are so many options for differing line-ups until the coaches are set for next year and a few other things get settled it doesn't really matter.  Just bring in the best players we can for both the long and short-term.  I don't really need to know all the answers yet, its just hard to justify bringing in an over-priced short-term "solution" by giving up futures that could well be a long-term 10 year solution.  

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22 minutes ago, JA_Boomer said:

 

If for some reason JT signs in Calgary, and I'm assuming he does so at a reasonable cap hit (<10 mil) I think going Tavares, Monahan, Backlund down the middle won't be much of a problem, finding some right-shot RW will be.

 

Tkachuk-Tavares-Bennett

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland

Jankowski-Backlund-Frolik

Lazar-Shore-Hathaway

 

This would still leave us without any right-shot, top-9, RWs. I think there's less than a 1% chance JT comes to Calgary if he actually hits the market.

 

I also think you are underestimating what Perron will get as a UFA. Someone will overpay for him IMO.

 

No doubt he will get a meal ticket.  I'm not sure how much, because he hasn't scored 20 goals since he was an Oiler.

He didn't put up stellar assists until this year.

 

As far as signing JT, that means we have a 3rd line C making >$5.0m.  Janko so far looks to be an adequate 3rd line C.

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18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

No doubt he will get a meal ticket.  I'm not sure how much, because he hasn't scored 20 goals since he was an Oiler.

He didn't put up stellar assists until this year.

 

As far as signing JT, that means we have a 3rd line C making >$5.0m.  Janko so far looks to be an adequate 3rd line C.

 

I think Perron whomever is willing to go to 4 years and $5m is going to get Perron. He has been very inconsistent through his career so I am not sure I would be willing to give up that much term.

 

Signing Tavares probably costs north of $10m, and I would guess close to $11m or slightly above. That being said he is one of the top players in this league and if you can get him you do it. I am sure we could find a new home for Backlund or Monahan and quite possibly find a new RW in the process. If you can get, what I consider a top 10 player in this league, you do it every time.

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27 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Right now what do we have for LW?  Gaudreau, check.  Tkachuk, check.  Both of whom I bet could/have played RW at various points... but, I digress.  Bennett (if he doesn't get traded), check.  Then a bunch of possibilities for 4th LW.  To me there are multiple options for Mangiapanne and for a team looking for skill/scoring upgrades he should be right at the top of our list for getting onto the team.  Personally I'd be looking at trading Bennett and putting Mangiapanne with Jankowski, but in reality there are so many options for differing line-ups until the coaches are set for next year and a few other things get settled it doesn't really matter.  Just bring in the best players we can for both the long and short-term.  I don't really need to know all the answers yet, its just hard to justify bringing in an over-priced short-term "solution" by giving up futures that could well be a long-term 10 year solution.  

I would go a bit further with our LW depth being Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Ferland and Bennett which provides the players playing their best positions. In reflection I agree with you on not Mangiapane as I did. I would still do a Brouwer for Spezza if DAL would go for it. Spezza has only 1 year remaining and the trade off would be worth it IMO.

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Signing Tavares would be the ultimate "Get Out Of Jail Free" for this team.

 

This includes a Brouwer buy-out.

Once Valimaki can play NHL minutes you can trade Stone or Brodie and you have enough room to sign Tkachuk for next season. Sign some plug as the 13th forward for emergencies only. Dube, Foo, and Magiapane play forward due to any injuries.

 

I wouldn't even care about the no right-shots in this scenario. Too bad it will very probably never happen. Although if JT looked around at where he can win multiple cups in the next decade...never say never.

 

Flames Roster.png

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21 hours ago, ABC923 said:

I doubt we can address our needs for scoring talent in free agency, so I would suggest a trade.  Plenty more options going that route.

 

If free agency is where we must go, I would obviously prefer Tavares (not going to happen).  Other options could be Van Riemsdyk (also unlikely, but his age makes signing a bit more palatable), Evander Kane (if you don't mind taking a risk that he vanishes after signing), Grabner (who is lower profile than Neal, so might be had for less term), Vanek (constant journeyman, right shot, scores, could probably sign for 3 years), Perron (another point producing journeyman, could be relatively affordable).

 

The key for me is term (outside of Tavares and van Riemsdyk, who are still in their 20s).  Most UFAs are over 30, so signing for more than 4 years is a huge risk.  I could see Neal landing for 6x6, which is 1 million more than I would want to pay him, and 3 years longer.  I like Neal, don't get me wrong, he just has a lot of buzz right now as one of the top UFAs this year, and my spidey sense tells me he gets overpaid in $ and term.  We don't want to repeat Edmonton's Lucic mistake.

I don't think Grabner would be a bad choice either. Neal is elite and at the top of the heap but a lot of teams will be after him.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think Perron whomever is willing to go to 4 years and $5m is going to get Perron. He has been very inconsistent through his career so I am not sure I would be willing to give up that much term.

 

Signing Tavares probably costs north of $10m, and I would guess close to $11m or slightly above. That being said he is one of the top players in this league and if you can get him you do it. I am sure we could find a new home for Backlund or Monahan and quite possibly find a new RW in the process. If you can get, what I consider a top 10 player in this league, you do it every time.

 

 

Monahan doesn't have a NTC, while Backlund does.

You just signed Backlund to a team friendly contract, while giving in return a NTC.

I don't want to get into the "Monahan is not a #1" debate.

 

There is no argument that Tavares is a great player.  You make it work.  But you have to consider what we have in Backlund and Monahan before you consider trading either.  

 

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