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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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4 hours ago, cross16 said:

Marner would be the dream get for me but he'll be off limits. He was the Leafs best player in the playoffs and I think poised to break out as a top line threat. I don't see a scenario where they trade Marner even if the Flames were willing to talk Hamilton. 

 

I also don't think it's a case of the Flames deciding between playmaker vs sniper either. Yes the Flames struggled to score goals, but they also struggled to get the puck into real high quality scoring areas and I thikn are one of the lowest rank teams in terms of passes into the slot area. I think a player like Marner would help their offence by allowing guys that can already put the puck in the net to get into better areas. I dont' think it's as simple as the Flames just need established goal scorers, becuase they have a few that arn't at the level you would ideally want them to be.

 

Leafs still make for a great trading partner as they are deep in RS wingers that the Flames lack. I'd be willing to discuss a few of them, in this order:

Marner - but like I said I think he's untouchable. 

Nylander - I'd be willing to discuss Hamilton but Leafs would have to add. 

Kapanen - 

Hyman

Brown

 

Flames would do well to land any of those 4. Obviously depending on the target the compensation would change. I'm not giving up Hamilton unless it's for Marner/Nylander (and like I said Leafs should add if its Nylander) but I do wonder if Brodie/Hamonic gets a conversation going for the rest of them. I don't want to give up Andersson either. 

I'm kind of on board but think Hamilton has way more value than you are giving him credit for, so it would be Marner Plus, and maybe Nylander with more pluses.  Hyman and Brown I don't think are any better than what we have so they are a no.  I might also consider Kapanen plus though for a lessor player... Brodie?

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30 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

I'm kind of on board but think Hamilton has way more value than you are giving him credit for, so it would be Marner Plus, and maybe Nylander with more pluses.  Hyman and Brown I don't think are any better than what we have so they are a no.  I might also consider Kapanen plus though for a lessor player... Brodie?

 

Hamilton worth Marner plus? Sorry I think that's crazy talk. Sounds like your undervaluing Marner more than i'm undervaluing Hamilton. I think Hamilton is worth a lot but so is Marner. 

 

The Flames best RH shot forward is Troy Brouwer. So are you saying that Hyman and Brown and better than Brouwer? If the Leafs have intrest in Brodie I could see a package including Kapanen but i'd want more than just Kapanen straight up for Brodie. Maybe a pick or something

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How about Brodie + Foo for Nylander?  The leafs get better on defense, with a possible producer in Foo, Flames get a true RHS winger who can score.

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13 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

How about Brodie + Foo for Nylander?  The leafs get better on defense, with a possible producer in Foo, Flames get a true RHS winger who can score.

 

I don't think Brodie fits the Leafs needs. They already have Reilly, Gardiner and Dermott on the left side and Reilly and Gardiner are better than Brodie already and Dermott looks like he has a bright future.

 

If we are trading a defenseman to the Leafs it would either be Hamilton or Hamonic.

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27 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Hamilton worth Marner plus? Sorry I think that's crazy talk. Sounds like your undervaluing Marner more than i'm undervaluing Hamilton. I think Hamilton is worth a lot but so is Marner. 

 

Personal opinion, I think that Marner is as close to untouchable for the Leafs as say, Tkachuk is for the Flames. I think that you're right - if the Flames were to make a deal for MM, it starts with Hamilton. After that, I don't think that we have the assets that they'd require. For that reason, I think that Nylander is more likely to be traded, but I wouldn't trade Hamilton for him. 

 

It's not you, specifically, but I think that a lot of people around here undervalue Dougie Hamilton. I realize that he's not immune to the odd boneheaded play that sometimes costs us, but he's a 6'5" right handed shot defenseman that tied for the league lead in scoring, and undoubtedly would have led if he had been utilized correctly on the power play. 

 

I think if the Flames are moving defence for help on the right side up front, they need to start with Brodie, and then Stone, and I don't think that fetches what you'd want out of Toronto, so we may have to look elsewhere. Unfortunately, I don't think that the people in charge of running the team are as impulsive as the fan base, and so they're not going to make the type of knee jerk trades that'll allow anyone to trick them out of Marner. 

 

Love. 

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7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

If we are trading a defenseman to the Leafs it would either be Hamilton or Hamonic.

 

This might be a good time to target Gardiner. I don't know if you'd want him here, but other GMs might inquire. 

 

Love. 

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At this point in time, I feel that TJ Brodie is much more valuable than Kasperi Kapanen.

Brodie has some history of success in the NHL as a Top 4 defense-man, while Kapanen has yet to show that he can even be a NHL regular.

92 points in 115 AHL games does not scream Top 6 NHL forward to me.

From what I've read, graduates to the NHL typically average 50% of their AHL points.

Based on that ratio, Kapanen should be expected to score 32 points per season (0.39 PPG) in the NHL.

So far in parts of 3 seasons, he only has 10 points in 55 NHL games (0.18 PPG). This season he did score at a 0.23 PPG pace.

Of course he is only 21, so improvement in his game is still possible.

But at only 6'0", 178 lb., Kapanen will probably need to put on some weight and get stronger to survive the grind of the NHL on a full time basis.

If trading Brodie can't bring a Top 6 forward in return, I'd rather keep him on the Flames.

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8 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

This might be a good time to target Gardiner. I don't know if you'd want him here, but other GMs might inquire. 

 

Love. 

 

I don't mind Gardiner, though he does remind me of Brodie with a bit more offense.

 

So I don't know if you can move Hamilton and another piece and get Nylander and Gardiner from the Leafs. Gardiner replaces some of the offense lost from Hamilton. Brodie can then be moved over to the right side with Gio and Gardiner can play with Hamonic.

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3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I don't mind Gardiner, though he does remind me of Brodie with a bit more offense.

 

So I don't know if you can move Hamilton and another piece and get Nylander and Gardiner from the Leafs. Gardiner replaces some of the offense lost from Hamilton. Brodie can then be moved over to the right side with Gio and Gardiner can play with Hamonic.

If we were to use Hamilton in a TOR deal and put Brodie back with Giordano I don't think we need Gardiner, not with Valimaki coming on within 2 seasons. I would rather go for Nylander and Kapanen and another 2nd round pick. These two RWers along with other in house options fixes our RW future.

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I will never understand trading or talk of trading away a top D for a forward especially Hamilton we just gave up a slue of picks for him and he was a top scorer on the back end and were thinking of moving him Confused? First of all we have never come out on top with TO in a trade we fail miserably every time second I wouldn't trust this Management to make a trade That would make us better in the long run. I would love to get rid of a few players that BT has signed but no one would take them unless we paid them.  I would like to see how the kids do next yr before I start making moves only possible thing I might do is trade for a 1st or 2nd round drat pick but who would we lose to do so and would that cost us in the long run again I don't trust the so called brain trust we have and I still think BB should pack his bags he has done nothing that I can see other than make silly or bold statements and the truculence thingy has failed miserably Brouwer Carol and Smith has proved that feaster got dumped for less.

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38 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

This might be a good time to target Gardiner. I don't know if you'd want him here, but other GMs might inquire. 

 

Love. 

 

Trade him for Brouwer?  Okay.

I've never felt him to be that good.  Maybe I'm undervaluing him, but I see him being 2nd pairing at best on the Flames.

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1 hour ago, 420since1974 said:

At this point in time, I feel that TJ Brodie is much more valuable than Kasperi Kapanen.

Brodie has some history of success in the NHL as a Top 4 defense-man, while Kapanen has yet to show that he can even be a NHL regular.

92 points in 115 AHL games does not scream Top 6 NHL forward to me.

From what I've read, graduates to the NHL typically average 50% of their AHL points.

Based on that ratio, Kapanen should be expected to score 32 points per season (0.39 PPG) in the NHL.

So far in parts of 3 seasons, he only has 10 points in 55 NHL games (0.18 PPG). This season he did score at a 0.23 PPG pace.

Of course he is only 21, so improvement in his game is still possible.

But at only 6'0", 178 lb., Kapanen will probably need to put on some weight and get stronger to survive the grind of the NHL on a full time basis.

If trading Brodie can't bring a Top 6 forward in return, I'd rather keep him on the Flames.

 

 

If that logic is sound, then we don’t have any top6 players in our prospect pool.

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57 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Personal opinion, I think that Marner is as close to untouchable for the Leafs as say, Tkachuk is for the Flames. I think that you're right - if the Flames were to make a deal for MM, it starts with Hamilton. After that, I don't think that we have the assets that they'd require. For that reason, I think that Nylander is more likely to be traded, but I wouldn't trade Hamilton for him. 

 

It's not you, specifically, but I think that a lot of people around here undervalue Dougie Hamilton. I realize that he's not immune to the odd boneheaded play that sometimes costs us, but he's a 6'5" right handed shot defenseman that tied for the league lead in scoring, and undoubtedly would have led if he had been utilized correctly on the power play. 

 

I think if the Flames are moving defence for help on the right side up front, they need to start with Brodie, and then Stone, and I don't think that fetches what you'd want out of Toronto, so we may have to look elsewhere. Unfortunately, I don't think that the people in charge of running the team are as impulsive as the fan base, and so they're not going to make the type of knee jerk trades that'll allow anyone to trick them out of Marner. 

 

Love. 

 Agreed on all points.

At this time, I'm not of the mind to trade Brodie for anything less than a Top 6 forward + a B level prospect or mid round draft pick.

I would like to see Stone traded, mostly because I feel that Andersson is ready for a full time position with Calgary.

I am confident that the return for Stone would be at least as much as the Flames have invested in him

He does have a NTC (15 team no trade list ), but maybe something could get done at the draft.

I wouldn't mind if the season opening roster looked like:

Giordano - Hamilton

Brodie - Hamonic

Kulak - Anderssson

Wotherspoon

OR

Giordano - Hamilton

Kulak - Hamonic

Brodie - Andersson

Wotherspoon

The bottom two pairings could well receive near equal playing time.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

I don't think Brodie fits the Leafs needs. They already have Reilly, Gardiner and Dermott on the left side and Reilly and Gardiner are better than Brodie already and Dermott looks like he has a bright future.

 

If we are trading a defenseman to the Leafs it would either be Hamilton or Hamonic.

Shouldn't matter as Brodie is most comfortable @ RD  produces best from that side. Seems everyone but GG caught on to that.

Brodie isn't the only player in the NHL that prefers & excels playing on his off side.

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1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

If that logic is sound, then we don’t have any top6 players in our prospect pool.

That may well be correct for the AHL prospects that were on Stockton's roster this season.

Looking at Carroll, Foo, Gazdic, Hrivik, Klimchuk, Lomberg, Mangiapane, Pollock, Poirier, Prybil, Shinkaruk, & Smith; I'm not convinced that any of them will become Top 6 NHL forwards.

I really wish that I could be more optimistic and would be pleased as punch to be wrong.

IMO, a couple of the prospects that are moving up from the CHL to the AHL next season may have that potential.

But even if they do, they will likely be at least two years away from a full time gig on the Flame's 1st or 2nd line.

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7 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Shouldn't matter as Brodie is most comfortable @ RD  produces best from that side. Seems everyone but GG caught on to that.

Brodie isn't the only player in the NHL that prefers & excels playing on his off side.

 

Babcock is an even bigger stickler for players playing on their strong side than GG, so I don't see Babcock being in favor of acquiring Brodie. It just doesn't fit.

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2 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Personal opinion, I think that Marner is as close to untouchable for the Leafs as say, Tkachuk is for the Flames. I think that you're right - if the Flames were to make a deal for MM, it starts with Hamilton. After that, I don't think that we have the assets that they'd require. For that reason, I think that Nylander is more likely to be traded, but I wouldn't trade Hamilton for him. 

 

It's not you, specifically, but I think that a lot of people around here undervalue Dougie Hamilton. I realize that he's not immune to the odd boneheaded play that sometimes costs us, but he's a 6'5" right handed shot defenseman that tied for the league lead in scoring, and undoubtedly would have led if he had been utilized correctly on the power play. 

 

I think if the Flames are moving defence for help on the right side up front, they need to start with Brodie, and then Stone, and I don't think that fetches what you'd want out of Toronto, so we may have to look elsewhere. Unfortunately, I don't think that the people in charge of running the team are as impulsive as the fan base, and so they're not going to make the type of knee jerk trades that'll allow anyone to trick them out of Marner. 

 

Love. 

This is so true.

#1 Rule of allowable trades is "don't create a gaping hole by filling another"

 

I would suggest we have 4 players on this team that are about as close to untouchable as you can get , because  we have nobody in the system with their level of skill set or intangibles to replace them. 

1) Gio - i wavered on this one, but it leaves a leadership hole and hes still good to be on just about any teams top pairing 

2)Hamilton - sorry , but it leaves a gaping D hole , teams around the league are looking for his type, cuz nobody will give them up 

3) Tkachuk - like Peters said, there's maybe 5 players like him in the league and most can only name Marchand

4) Backlund - one of the top 2 way players in the game

 

Maybe 3 players who while not untouchable, you'd have to knock our socks off or somehow replace them in the same trade

1) Johnny- like when I suggested Johnny for Hall, etc

2) Monahan- we sign Tavares , he could be available at the right price ..and even then it would have to be REAL good and tempting

3) Hamonic - top 2nd pairing guy , great contract.. plus we gave up a ton to get him

 

I still say Montreal is our Huckleberry for TJ

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I don't think it is a good idea to trade Brodie because Treliving is unlikely to obtain appropriate value. Trading Brodie when his value is down is a Chiarelli poor idea. Also, if memory serves, Brodie has a M-NTC that might well weaken Treliving's bargaining terms. Brouwer also has a NTC, but I doubt he will ever have to exercise it. 

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Friedman mentioned in his 31 thoughts that Carolina will be testing the trade market on Jeff Skinner.

 

Would be interested but we can’t really help CAR fill their biggest need which is the centre position 

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22 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I don't think it is a good idea to trade Brodie because Treliving is unlikely to obtain appropriate value. Trading Brodie when his value is down is a Chiarelli poor idea. Also, if memory serves, Brodie has a M-NTC that might well weaken Treliving's bargaining terms. Brouwer also has a NTC, but I doubt he will ever have to exercise it. 

value is relative..when a team is starving for a skillset you can offer , the value is high

Montreal is hungry and in desperate need for a smooth skating , points producing Dman ...thats Brodie

To suggest we could ask for Paccioretty, Galchenyuk or Gallagher  in return is not a reach ..id be happy with any of the 3

 

6 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Friedman mentioned in his 31 thoughts that Carolina will be testing the trade market on Jeff Skinner.

 

Would be interested but we can’t really help CAR fill their biggest need which is the centre position 

I would say No , only because Skinner struggled under Peters

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51 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

value is relative..when a team is starving for a skillset you can offer , the value is high

Montreal is hungry and in desperate need for a smooth skating , points producing Dman ...thats Brodie

To suggest we could ask for Paccioretty, Galchenyuk or Gallagher  in return is not a reach ..id be happy with any of the 3

 

I would say No , only because Skinner struggled under Peters

Don’t know that he struggled under Peters. Last season carter high 37 goals and 63 points. What’s more concerning is his injury history to me

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6 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Don’t know that he struggled under Peters. Last season carter high 37 goals and 63 points. What’s more concerning is his injury history to me

 

I think they had a bit of a falling out this year. Peters preaches situational awareness and Skinner struggles with that aspect of the game. Good skater and goal scorer, but isn't great at the other end of the ice.

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4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Hamilton worth Marner plus? Sorry I think that's crazy talk. Sounds like your undervaluing Marner more than i'm undervaluing Hamilton. I think Hamilton is worth a lot but so is Marner. 

 

The Flames best RH shot forward is Troy Brouwer. So are you saying that Hyman and Brown and better than Brouwer? If the Leafs have intrest in Brodie I could see a package including Kapanen but i'd want more than just Kapanen straight up for Brodie. Maybe a pick or something

They are both great players, no doubt, but let's look at the differentiating facts:  

1. Hamilton led all D in goals scored for the entire NHL, while not even playing much PP for over half the season.

2. In terms of positional value, it goes like this - goalie, D(Hamilton), Centres, wingers(Marner)

3. In terms of D priority, R-shot D(Hamilton) are more rare and much more valuable than L-shot D.

4. Hamilton is 24, signed for 3 more years at a cap-friendly $5.75mm.  Marner is 20, signed for $0.895 for 1 year than looking for  huge contract increase likely over $7mm... Both growing into their primes and this is likely a wash...

 

So, YES, Marner is a great player, but what do you think you're going to need to pay to get another great player, especially one at the most sought-after position of hockey skaters?  Sure they can try to cobble together a package of lessor guys but why would we even consider it?  There are not enough spots for tons of players and we have our own depth.  IF Hamilton gets traded it NEEDS to be for Marner or someone very similar, and yes, there should be pluses coming our way.

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51 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

value is relative..when a team is starving for a skillset you can offer , the value is high

Montreal is hungry and in desperate need for a smooth skating , points producing Dman ...thats Brodie

To suggest we could ask for Paccioretty, Galchenyuk or Gallagher  in return is not a reach ..id be happy with any of the 3

 

I would say No , only because Skinner struggled under Peters

The Flames need more scoring and I am not sure if any of those three players provide enough. I am not sure that we can squeeze much more production from the top line (both Monahan and Johnny had career years) unless we get an elite RW. Paccioretty struggled this year, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are 20 goal type players.

 

Peters has his work cut out for him. Right now, we have a scoring line, a shut down line, and bottom 6 misfits. I believe that we need two scoring lines, a shut down line, and a 4th energy/hard hitting line.

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4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Hamilton worth Marner plus? Sorry I think that's crazy talk. Sounds like your undervaluing Marner more than i'm undervaluing Hamilton. I think Hamilton is worth a lot but so is Marner. 

 

The Flames best RH shot forward is Troy Brouwer. So are you saying that Hyman and Brown and better than Brouwer? If the Leafs have intrest in Brodie I could see a package including Kapanen but i'd want more than just Kapanen straight up for Brodie. Maybe a pick or something

To me Brouwer is not a consideration.  He's either traded, bought out or riding the 4th line/pine role for another season.  Sure if you can trade Brouwer for either Hyman or Brown go for it.  I think Mangiapanne, Foo, Frolik, Dube, Ferland and maybe others... are just as good as or better than Hyman or Brown, so there is no need to acquire them.

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