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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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12 minutes ago, Fins&FIre15 said:

 I know every time Tavares is brought up people role their eyes, because its just not happening, but lets dream again for a bit.

 

If we get him, does mony become expendable? We could do a one for one and get an elite, young, winger.

 

St louis just traded stastny and now has hole at center.  Could we pry kyrou and thomas from them for monahan?

 

It would momentarily reduce our depth, but we'd arguably gain some blue chip prospects.

I don't think it's arguable those are blue chip prospects, but Monahan is our only pure snipe, neither of those prospects are.

I would only call the untouchable

JG

Mony

Backlund

Tkachuk

Gio

Personally.

As DD mentioned earlier, a lot of teams run maybe top 3 D rather than bonafide top 4.

There have to be trade-offs to get better balance.

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32 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't think it's arguable those are blue chip prospects, but Monahan is our only pure snipe, neither of those prospects are.

I would only call the untouchable

JG

Mony

Backlund

Tkachuk

Gio

Personally.

As DD mentioned earlier, a lot of teams run maybe top 3 D rather than bonafide top 4.

There have to be trade-offs to get better balance.

Im not as sold on Johnny being untouchable as most . The only caveat being he needs to be replaced in the trade 

Hamilton to me is more untouchable that Johnny  (for me he'd have to be part of a Erik Karlsson trade that included an extension )

 

Since we are playing in the time zone of "what if " hypotheticals .. let me throw this out there 

The new coach of Dallas is Jim Montgomery, its not out of the real of reality that he asks his GM to look into trying to acquire his old star pupil

Whether he is successful or not , if we can look at a package including Tyler Seguin, Im definitely listening 

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9 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Im not as sold on Johnny being untouchable as most . The only caveat being he needs to be replaced in the trade 

Hamilton to me is more untouchable that Johnny  (for me he'd have to be part of a Erik Karlsson trade that included an extension )

 

Since we are playing in the time zone of "what if " hypotheticals .. let me throw this out there 

The new coach of Dallas is Jim Montgomery, its not out of the real of reality that he asks his GM to look into trying to acquire his old star pupil

Whether he is successful or not , if we can look at a package including Tyler Seguin, Im definitely listening 

Why would you send away your leading scorer for a new leading scorer? That's lateral at best.

What makes Hamilton so invaluable? His 17 goals and 40 points?

Matt Dumba is better than Hamilton. Who are we kidding here?

If Hamilton's value is high, lose him for better forward(s) to surround JG.

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Just to raise cross' ire, lol, I'd be ready to circle back on the Hamilton deal we made if it gets us back to square one of, "should've had a more balanced focus". If we can pull fwds out of him. We've built up some D depth but wow are we in trouble at F. So much trouble that we should definitely consider sacrifices.

I think we got ahead of ourselves in the rebuild with the Hamilton acquisition.

Then BT does the exact same thing with the Hamonic acquisition.

All at the expense of where our biggest problem is, at forward.

I agree you build a team from the net out, but G and D was so overplayed that we're stuck with below average at F and can't score enough.

I knew this was going to be a really difficult offseason to get better and I threw my hands in the air.

I just don't know, we have so many holes that Smith's play hid.

Do you think we'll go drastic measures?

 

We have problems, but I wouldn't say they are desperate problems. 

Decent top 6 and under performing 3rd line.  Non-existent 4th line.

 

The combined effect of the Hammy, Hammer, Elliott, Stone, and Smith trades is a lack of higher end F prospects.

Not so worried about the Hammer trade, as we lose a 12th overall, in a draft that doesn't appear to be that deep.

Hammy was a loss of Boesser or Barzal or Connor or Debrusk.  But we have one of the top scoring D in the league.

Elliott was a loss of DeBrincat or Kyrou.  Nothing to show from that.

 

A few reasons why we didn't score enough last season.

Putrid PP for most of the season.  Questionable usage of certain players that can't score and others that could.

Highest number of post hit in the league?  Poor shooting, bad luck or merely off by a smidge.

 

We could probably fix the lack of scoring on the 3rd line by doing nothing but moving the right player onto that line.

The 4th line needs a re-make, but more we may already have players for it.  

 

I don't think we need to blow up the team.

Galchenyuk for Bennett.

Brodie for Lindholm.

Stone for a pick.

Buy out Brouwer.

We still have enough depth on D.  The team isn't dramatically different.  

 

 

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33 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Why would you send away your leading scorer for a new leading scorer? That's lateral at best.

What makes Hamilton so invaluable? His 17 goals and 40 points?

Matt Dumba is better than Hamilton. Who are we kidding here?

If Hamilton's value is high, lose him for better forward(s) to surround JG.

1) he's a right hand shot .you instantly improve your power play 

2)he can play center , or wing 

3)He can handle rougher going and traffic 

and you do it all without sacrificing a severe drop in point production 

 

Hamilton is Elite , and widely accepted as 1/2 of the top d pairing in the league ..he would be top pair on any team in the league 

At his age , he is only getting better .. and has been each and every year 

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1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

1) he's a right hand shot .you instantly improve your power play 

2)he can play center , or wing 

3)He can handle rougher going and traffic 

and you do it all without sacrificing a severe drop in point production 

 

Hamilton is Elite , and widely accepted as 1/2 of the top d pairing in the league ..he would be top pair on any team in the league 

At his age , he is only getting better .. and has been each and every year 

But Hamilton is paired with one of the league's best dmen.

Is there much differentiation between what Brodie could do with Gio and what Hammy's doing?

I guess I'm wondering, did we fix what wasn't broken? And broke something to accommodate Hamilton?

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I keep thinking about our goaltending.

 

We have one year of Smith left at 4.25. I’d be ok with offering him a 1yr extension if he has a good season. But then what? 

 

Clearly Parsons is our best chance but his first season of pro wasn’t amazing. He will need to make big strides this season. Rittich is closer to 30 than 20, I think he tops out as a solid backup. Gillies I don’t believe will be a starter in this league either as he has too many mental lapses resulting in goals against.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

But Hamilton is paired with one of the league's best dmen.

Is there much differentiation between what Brodie could do with Gio and what Hammy's doing?

I guess I'm wondering, did we fix what wasn't broken? And broke something to accommodate Hamilton?

Statistically speaking , Hamilton's results with Gio have been superior to TJ's 2 years with him , aside from the penalty differential 

That's not even including the argument that some say Gio is starting to decline himself, placing even more of the credit with Hamilton 

 

While you may improve TJ putting him back with Gio, you're actually weakening the top pairing overall

 

Dougie 2016-17-  2017-18

 

Season
GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
2016-2017 81 13 37 50 12 64 2 14 0 1 5 1 222 5.9 0
2017-2018 82 17 27 44 1 64 6 12 0 0 4 1 270 6.3 33.33

 

2m7j9uc.jpg

 

 

TJ 2014-15 - 2016-16

  GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
2014-2015 81 11 30 41 15 30 3 9 1 3 3 1 133 8.3 0
2015-2016 70 6 39 45 4 18 2 9 0 2 1 1 79 7.6 0

 

 

2zftz00.jpg

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57 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Statistically speaking , Hamilton's results with Gio have been superior to TJ's 2 years with him , aside from the penalty differential 

That's not even including the argument that some say Gio is starting to decline himself, placing even more of the credit with Hamilton 

 

While you may improve TJ putting him back with Gio, you're actually weakening the top pairing overall

 

Dougie 2016-17-  2017-18

 

Season
GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
2016-2017 81 13 37 50 12 64 2 14 0 1 5 1 222 5.9 0
2017-2018 82 17 27 44 1 64 6 12 0 0 4 1 270 6.3 33.33

 

2m7j9uc.jpg

 

 

TJ 2014-15 - 2016-16

  GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
2014-2015 81 11 30 41 15 30 3 9 1 3 3 1 133 8.3 0
2015-2016 70 6 39 45 4 18 2 9 0 2 1 1 79 7.6 0

 

 

2zftz00.jpg

 

Brodie looks like he was on a slow incline, then one might say he could’ve reached 50 points the past few years. 

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4 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Im not as sold on Johnny being untouchable as most . The only caveat being he needs to be replaced in the trade 

Hamilton to me is more untouchable that Johnny  (for me he'd have to be part of a Erik Karlsson trade that included an extension )

 

Since we are playing in the time zone of "what if " hypotheticals .. let me throw this out there 

The new coach of Dallas is Jim Montgomery, its not out of the real of reality that he asks his GM to look into trying to acquire his old star pupil

Whether he is successful or not , if we can look at a package including Tyler Seguin, Im definitely listening 

i dont think he coached JH. he was coach in Denver and JH was at Boston

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31 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

i dont think he coached JH. he was coach in Denver and JH was at Boston

 

He was the coach at Dubuque for one season.

 

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2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Statistically speaking , Hamilton's results with Gio have been superior to TJ's 2 years with him , aside from the penalty differential 

That's not even including the argument that some say Gio is starting to decline himself, placing even more of the credit with Hamilton 

 

While you may improve TJ putting him back with Gio, you're actually weakening the top pairing overall

 

Dougie 2016-17-  2017-18

 

Season
GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
2016-2017 81 13 37 50 12 64 2 14 0 1 5 1 222 5.9 0
2017-2018 82 17 27 44 1 64 6 12 0 0 4 1 270 6.3 33.33

 

2m7j9uc.jpg

 

 

TJ 2014-15 - 2016-16

  GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
2014-2015 81 11 30 41 15 30 3 9 1 3 3 1 133 8.3 0
2015-2016 70 6 39 45 4 18 2 9 0 2 1 1 79 7.6 0

 

 

2zftz00.jpg

And how were Gio's stats with each partner? Herein lies the difference.

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20 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

learned something new.

 

 

I googled it.  I had heard the connection elsewhere but couldn't remember where they crossed paths..

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43 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

And how were Gio's stats with each partner? Herein lies the difference.

 

Mixed-- his offense was higher with TJ, however his defensive stats are stronger Hamilton 

 

 

 

Gio with TJ

Season
GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
2014-2015 61 11 37 48 13 37 2 14 1 1 2 1 157 7 0
2015-2016 82 21 35 56 -5 54 9 19 1 3 2 1 212 9.9 0

 

 

2z7idnb.jpg

 

Gio with Hamilton

Season
GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
2016-2017 81 12 27 39 22 59 3 14 2 3 4 1 151 7.9 0
2017-2018 82 13 25 38 0 63 1 10 1 1 4 2 214 6.1 0

 

29d09l.jpg

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7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

So it's a wash.

Trade Hamilton.

so.trade the better of the 2 defensemen and create a less defensively effective pairing for your top pair ,,,makes sense 

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Clone Gio

 

Gio1, Hamilton

Gio2, Brodie

Andersson, Hamonic

Kulak

 

best D in the league!!!

 

ok, so we know we need to trade a D to improve. 

 

Will it be a prospect or a proven guy?  Can Brodie get us into the top10 of the draft? Does BT use him to get us a 2nd line RW who can play on the 1st or does Brodie equate to a 1st liner? 

 

Is Hamilton worth a large haul? Would he be similar to a Bouwmeester deal, but not a flop? A 1st, decent player and a prospect? Can decent player play top line like Ferland does?

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19 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Clone Gio

 

Gio1, Hamilton

Gio2, Brodie

Andersson, Hamonic

Kulak

 

best D in the league!!!

 

ok, so we know we need to trade a D to improve. 

 

Will it be a prospect or a proven guy?  Can Brodie get us into the top10 of the draft? Does BT use him to get us a 2nd line RW who can play on the 1st or does Brodie equate to a 1st liner? 

 

Is Hamilton worth a large haul? Would he be similar to a Bouwmeester deal, but not a flop? A 1st, decent player and a prospect? Can decent player play top line like Ferland does?

I don't buy into this necessarily. Everyone thinks by trading Brodie or Hamilton for a top line RW wins the day for us. I would say we need to improve lines 2, 3 and 4 while keeping our defense group. Whoever plays with Gaudreau and Monahan will do well, how well is the question. Unless we stand to get a player that makes both Gaudreau and Monahan better I don't use either Brodie or Hamilton.

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19 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I would say we have some depth at D in our prospects but it is a stretch to say they could cover our top 4 should a serious injury occur. We certainly can't afford to trade away from our D top 4 at this time unless BT changes his thinking of building our team like the Preds with a strong D.

 

Most teams however, don't have a top 4 but trrather a really good top 2 and maybe a top 3.

 

The other thing is all our D are on very nice contracts. Trading any of them would have to bring something similar back. Most of our core is set except for Bennett who needs to step up in his final "show me" year.

Reflecting on last season's play we find ourselves in the "good top 2" category". Brodie and Hamonic both need solid a bounce back season Stone if kept would be a luxury but maybe a luxury we could use in order to have reliable depth.

There is no doubt this next season is boom or bust for Bennett which is why I would put him with Backlund and Frolik as his best advantage to perform.

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2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

so.trade the better of the 2 defensemen and create a less defensively effective pairing for your top pair ,,,makes sense 

Just starting the party, lol

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21 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

He played his last 10 seasons with the Blues. He likes it there and they treat him very well. You are dreaming if you think he will return to work for the Flames.

 

Oh I know it is extremely unlikely, but if we were to give the promotion from from vice president of hockey ops to president of hockey ops, he might want to have the increased role.

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What if we went:

 

giordano,  Hamilton

Brodie, Stone

Kulak/Andersson, Hamonic 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

What if we went:

 

giordano,  Hamilton

Brodie, Stone

Kulak/Andersson, Hamonic 

 

 

My guess is they will move Stone if they can but BT doesn't have to be desperate about it. We might even see Brodie and Hamonic tried again.

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7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

What if we went:

 

giordano,  Hamilton

Brodie, Stone

Kulak/Andersson, Hamonic 

 

 

 

I think Stone needs off this team, not an increased role.

 

I know many will point to the 16-17 season and think that Brodie-Stone were a good pairing, but they really were not that good. Brodie-Hamonic was actually a better pairing, by both metrics and the eye test, than Brodie-Stone were. 

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