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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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On the Ryan O'Reily front, apparently Bob Mackenzie on his latest podcast said the Sabres are looking for a similar to return to what the Flyers got when they traded Richards. They want a young player in the prime of his career, your top prospect and a 1st or 2nd round pick. Richards cost the Kings Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and a 2nd round pick. 

 

So probably cost the Flames Bennett, Valamaki/Fox and a 1st or 2nd round pick to pick up ROR and a 7.5 mill per year cap hit. Yikes. 

 

Edit: link https://frshockey.com/nhl/sabres/mckenzie-culture-change-cliche-applies-to-sabres/

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39 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think Dube goes to Stockton and develops with the others who need a season of seasoning.

 

That's entirely possible, but he was one of the last cuts at camp last year. If he doesn't make the team out of camp, I think he will be up around Christmas time.

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I don't think they will put Bennett in the C position this coming yr so I believe there is a spot for Dube we need 4 Cntrs . I know Peters did say something about Bennett and his centre position but I could see Dube coming in and taking that spot. I know every yr I think a rookie can come in and take a spot most of the time I get flake because PPL on here think the kids need to go to A's but I say why if they can play at the NHL: level and don't hurt the team why not? I think dube is that player he is a 200 ft player a Nystrom type player I hope he can bring it would be nice to see another draft pick show up. I can dream

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36 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Man I have a hard time comprehending what constitutes "below average" skating from high performing players at the Junior level. Do you get to that level and have the results Gawdin has by being a below average skater ? Give me an example, would he be worse than Monahan or Tkachuk ?

 

When you are 21 years old and playing against teenagers, you can use your strength and experience to dominate, which Gawdin has been doing. You can get away with not being a great skater, it is harder to the same things at the pro level. Monahan and Tkachuk have gotten away with having below average skating by having elite hockey IQ. I don't think Gawdin has elite hockey IQ.

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3 minutes ago, zima said:

I don't think they will put Bennett in the C position this coming yr so I believe there is a spot for Dube we need 4 Cntrs . I know Peters did say something about Bennett and his centre position but I could see Dube coming in and taking that spot. I know every yr I think a rookie can come in and take a spot most of the time I get flake because PPL on here think the kids need to go to A's but I say why if they can play at the NHL: level and don't hurt the team why not? I think dube is that player he is a 200 ft player a Nystrom type player I hope he can bring it would be nice to see another draft pick show up. I can dream

 

I really dislike the idea of putting a rookie coming out junior on the 4th line. I think the perfect example of how that usually turns out is Lazar. Ottawa played him on the 4th line instead of letting him develop and get playing time in junior and the A and I think that really stunted his development. 

 

Playing Dube on the 4th line is a terrible plan, play him 1st line minutes in Stockton if that is the case. 

 

3rd line and up for young developing players. I would also hate to see Bennett or Jankowski play any significant time on the 4th line as I think that does nothing for the team or the players.

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2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

When you are 21 years old and playing against teenagers, you can use your strength and experience to dominate, which Gawdin has been doing. You can get away with not being a great skater, it is harder to the same things at the pro level. Monahan and Tkachuk have gotten away with having below average skating by having elite hockey IQ. I don't think Gawdin has elite hockey IQ.

Hey J he is a Flame now stop with the negativity he will be a top player in the pro's and perhaps not in the NHL right away but he will kill it in the a's and the Flames will have no choice but bring him up.

 

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2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I really dislike the idea of putting a rookie coming out junior on the 4th line. I think the perfect example of how that usually turns out is Lazar. Ottawa played him on the 4th line instead of letting him develop and get playing time in junior and the A and I think that really stunted his development. 

 

Playing Dube on the 4th line is a terrible plan, play him 1st line minutes in Stockton if that is the case. 

 

3rd line and up for young developing players. I would also hate to see Bennett or Jankowski play any significant time on the 4th line as I think that does nothing for the team or the players.

So what then who do we put on the 4th line some one has to go there Lazar?

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4 minutes ago, zima said:

Hey J he is a Flame now stop with the negativity he will be a top player in the pro's and perhaps not in the NHL right away but he will kill it in the a's and the Flames will have no choice but bring him up.

 

 

Hey I hope he does well for us and shows that he can play in the NHL, but I am also trying to be realistic, there is probably a reason, a good drafting and developing team like St. Louis decided to not sign Gawdin and why no team took him the 2nd time through the draft and why we didn't sign him out of development camp. The odds are against him. Doesn't mean I am not pulling for him.

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5 minutes ago, zima said:

So what then who do we put on the 4th line some one has to go there Lazar?

 

Lazar is a fine option there, I like Shore in that 4th line center position. Those are two guys that have probably hit their ceiling and are fine 4th line depth.

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15 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

That's entirely possible, but he was one of the last cuts at camp last year. If he doesn't make the team out of camp, I think he will be up around Christmas time.

Really hard to say especially if BP does bring someone like Derek Ryan C and we still have Shore and Lazar who also could be Cs. I would rather he C a line of Mangiapane and Foo in Stockton. I foresee a very competitive camp this season.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

When you are 21 years old and playing against teenagers, you can use your strength and experience to dominate, which Gawdin has been doing. You can get away with not being a great skater, it is harder to the same things at the pro level. Monahan and Tkachuk have gotten away with having below average skating by having elite hockey IQ. I don't think Gawdin has elite hockey IQ.

Obviously I am no scout and have not seen Gawdin play firsthand but nobody puts up these kind of results by being stupid or not having some talents. I do agree there are plenty of examples of Junior players with big numbers that didn't make it at the NHL level so we will see. This is why it is good to put these players fresh out of Junior into a season of AHL play. Tkachuk forced the team's hand but we also had needs along LW as well so his timing was good. Dube can play both C and LW both positions we will have good talented players already so I see him the A unless maybe if Bennett gets traded.

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Happens all the time. Ryan Stone, Colin Long, Joel Broda, Bryan Cameron etc. All guys who put up either big point total and/or goal numbers and all of which I would call below avg skaters. 

 

From what i've seen, which is a bit limited, it's probably similar to Tkachuk's level. Remember below avg is a relative statement. To his peers, it's probably not below avg. for an NHL prospect at this age and where'd you'd ideally like him to be? It's probably below avg. Doesn't mean his bad or not worth it, just means that's what he needs to work on .

Skating can be fixed. In his 1st year of junior Scheifele's skating was considered questionable but he worked on it & now has speed to burn.

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

On the Ryan O'Reily front, apparently Bob Mackenzie on his latest podcast said the Sabres are looking for a similar to return to what the Flyers got when they traded Richards. They want a young player in the prime of his career, your top prospect and a 1st or 2nd round pick. Richards cost the Kings Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and a 2nd round pick. 

 

So probably cost the Flames Bennett, Valamaki/Fox and a 1st or 2nd round pick to pick up ROR and a 7.5 mill per year cap hit. Yikes. 

 

Edit: link https://frshockey.com/nhl/sabres/mckenzie-culture-change-cliche-applies-to-sabres/

 

BT is probably all over it right now.

 

Sad to even think about.

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Don't most of those trades fail miserably ? Seems when ever a team is after a hot commodity that commodity usually turns out to bit that team in the rear end. Very seldom does a trade of a saute after player turn out in the favour of the buyer. I know it has happened but seems to me for the most it is a lost cause.

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24 minutes ago, zima said:

Don't most of those trades fail miserably ? Seems when ever a team is after a hot commodity that commodity usually turns out to bit that team in the rear end. Very seldom does a trade of a saute after player turn out in the favour of the buyer. I know it has happened but seems to me for the most it is a lost cause.

I consider Dougie Hamilton a huge win 

 

Edmonton traded Taylor Hall.. a 1st .. a 2nd .. and ended up with Adam Larson and Griffin Reinhart.. i consider giving a 12th and a 2nd a Win for Hamonic 

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

BT is probably all over it right now.

 

Sad to even think about.

 

Personally I don't think the flames would have interest in ROR. Doesn't make a lot of sense for me nor BT

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33 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Personally I don't think the flames would have interest in ROR. Doesn't make a lot of sense for me nor BT

Not at the price they're likely asking anyway 

 

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13 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Not at the price they're likely asking anyway 

 

 

That and they just locked up Backlund long term on top of Monahan, and like Jankowski plus still have Bennett.  Adding 7.5 mill to their centers while leaving holes elsewhere doesn't make alot of sense. Especially when ROR is not the best center in that group nor is he a RH shot. 

 

The fit doesn't make sense at his salary or asking price. 

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6 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

When you are 21 years old and playing against teenagers, you can use your strength and experience to dominate, which Gawdin has been doing. You can get away with not being a great skater, it is harder to the same things at the pro level. Monahan and Tkachuk have gotten away with having below average skating by having elite hockey IQ. I don't think Gawdin has elite hockey IQ.

So you are saying he’s slow because he is 21 or he’s slow because you’ve watched him and you actually know what you are talking about?

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7 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Hey I hope he does well for us and shows that he can play in the NHL, but I am also trying to be realistic, there is probably a reason, a good drafting and developing team like St. Louis decided to not sign Gawdin and why no team took him the 2nd time through the draft and why we didn't sign him out of development camp. The odds are against him. Doesn't mean I am not pulling for him.

 

I would suggest that a number of things played into it.

He didn't have a great season last year and STL was going to have no AHL team this year.

Re-draft players don't often get selected a 2nd time because they are older and a better known quantity than a young guy, possible draft steal 7th rounder.

Teams also know that that player will end up a FA if nobody takes a chance on him.

We didn;t sign him right away, but saw enough to be ready to sign him after a torrid start.  

 

Teams let players go all the time for various reasons.  Not all of them are related to the player.  I am optimistic about the prospect, regardless of how he ended up here.

  

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9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would suggest that a number of things played into it.

He didn't have a great season last year and STL was going to have no AHL team this year.

Re-draft players don't often get selected a 2nd time because they are older and a better known quantity than a young guy, possible draft steal 7th rounder.

Teams also know that that player will end up a FA if nobody takes a chance on him.

We didn;t sign him right away, but saw enough to be ready to sign him after a torrid start.  

 

Teams let players go all the time for various reasons.  Not all of them are related to the player.  I am optimistic about the prospect, regardless of how he ended up here.

  

With all that has happened with Gawdin, he will be wanting to prove everyone before the Flames was wrong about him. Let's see where this goes, I like a player with a chip on his shoulder.

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6 hours ago, MAC331 said:

With all that has happened with Gawdin, he will be wanting to prove everyone before the Flames was wrong about him. Let's see where this goes, I like a player with a chip on his shoulder.

 

The Sun article talks about that.  He was upset about it and wanted to prove them wrong.  

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6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The Sun article talks about that.  He was upset about it and wanted to prove them wrong.  

Didn't Josh Ho Sang talk like that after falling to pick @28 ? 

He was last seen playing in the AHL & is probably available to anyone wanting a reclaimation project for a B prospect.

He reminds me of E Kane with less talent but an even more pronounced "it's all about me" complex.

The above is all about Ho Sang rather than Gawdin but a reference point. It certainly doesn't mean I advocate trading for him.

 

With Gawdin I'd rely heavy on preseason interviews to determine where his head is. Would he play a team game or just try to prove himself so much better than a 4th rounder the drafting team couldn't be bothered signing.

He could be a late bloomer but busting loose @ 21 against boys while exceeding his point output from the previous 2 years makes me wonder.

He's on a 2 way ELC that pays 0.925 in the big league & 0.07 in the AHL so isn't a big cost. Not sure of the roster contracts for next year but @ least he seems affordable.

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43 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Didn't Josh Ho Sang talk like that after falling to pick @28 ? 

He was last seen playing in the AHL & is probably available to anyone wanting a reclaimation project for a B prospect.

He reminds me of E Kane with less talent but an even more pronounced "it's all about me" complex.

The above is all about Ho Sang rather than Gawdin but a reference point. It certainly doesn't mean I advocate trading for him.

 

With Gawdin I'd rely heavy on preseason interviews to determine where his head is. Would he play a team game or just try to prove himself so much better than a 4th rounder the drafting team couldn't be bothered signing.

He could be a late bloomer but busting loose @ 21 against boys while exceeding his point output from the previous 2 years makes me wonder.

He's on a 2 way ELC that pays 0.925 in the big league & 0.07 in the AHL so isn't a big cost. Not sure of the roster contracts for next year but @ least he seems affordable.

 

I don't have much good to say about either Ho Sang or Kane.

 

I'll let the kid's game do the talking.  No idea of the kind of person he is, but the Flames talked with him during the Penticton tourney and TC.  They scouted him in SC before they signed him.

 

Here's some quotes from BT about him in November:

 

“His line, in the CHL, is unbelievable,” said Flames assistant general manager Craig Conroy. “And as much as those other guys are great players, (Gawdin) does a lot of the stuff kind of below the surface — getting pucks, winning things defensively … all those little things.

“The points speak for themselves. But when you talk to the scouts and the coaches, he’s doing a lot more than just the points … He’s sound defensively. Obviously, they don’t spend a lot of time in their own zone, as you can tell from the point total, but the thing is he does a lot of the work — with the defencemen — so they aren’t in their own zone.  He’s smart, reliable, good positionally … Plus, he’s a right-handed centre. It’s always nice to have a guy that can take draws on that right side.”

 

At the very least it gives them options in the AHL.  He could turn into a good player.  

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