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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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5 hours ago, MAC331 said:

It is never as simple as that, adding Stone could free up someone else to trade. Maybe it doesn't even involve Stone but Skinner has 1 year remaining so they likely move him so they can apply the money elsewhere. I look at our situation surround the top line RW and think we need to consider a short term deal like 1 season with someone good.

It will be tough but if they can move Gio then do it.  I like Gio alot but his production wont be getting any better, $6.7 mil is a big chunk of change, and the biggest factor.....he's signed for another 4 years. He'll be 38 at the end of the contract. I personally dont think he's a 6.7 mil D-man now, nevermind in 4 years.

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6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

But they want a top 4 LD.

 

Would we be willing to move Giordano?    

If it were BT he may consider Giordano but not just for Skinner, go for Lindholm as well. There may be an even bigger deal if these two GMs got together

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7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

But they want a top 4 LD.

 

Would we be willing to move Giordano?    

 

I had exactly the same thought... I doubt it, but I would definitely be open to that if I were the bossman. 

 

Love. 

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Trade Gio for who Ovi Crosby Matthews ?Those are the only type of player I would consider trading for Because I believe he is worth all that.

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23 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

It will be tough but if they can move Gio then do it.  I like Gio alot but his production wont be getting any better, $6.7 mil is a big chunk of change, and the biggest factor.....he's signed for another 4 years. He'll be 38 at the end of the contract. I personally dont think he's a 6.7 mil D-man now, nevermind in 4 years.

 

Ya I would trade Giordano too.  But not give him away.  The return has to be good.

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Pens are rumoured to be looking to move on from Kessel, any interest? Yes I know he has an NMC, but it sounds like him and Sullivan's relationship has been ruined

 

 

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On 5/23/2018 at 5:40 PM, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

It will be tough but if they can move Gio then do it.  I like Gio alot but his production wont be getting any better, $6.7 mil is a big chunk of change, and the biggest factor.....he's signed for another 4 years. He'll be 38 at the end of the contract. I personally dont think he's a 6.7 mil D-man now, nevermind in 4 years.

 

Gio's contract is not high by NHL top pair standards.  Compare his to Suter's or Weber's.

He's still playing like a premiere player at a relative bargain price.  

Yes, his play will decline over time, and yes his offence was less these past two years.

Bear in mind that he played under Gully's system which saw him play less on the PP and a more defensive posture.

 

Obviously, we can't hang onto him forever.  If he's passed on the depth chart by Valimaki or Kylington, then his value will be just leadership.

The $100k question is when to trade him.  Can;t wait too long and can't trade him while he's an important part of this team.

Either way, the trade would have to be a relative overpayment from the other team.  They will have to pay for his leadership. 

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3 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Pens are rumoured to be looking to move on from Kessel, any interest? Yes I know he has an NMC, but it sounds like him and Sullivan's relationship has been ruined

 

 

 

How much would it cost to get a 92 point guy?

Considering that the Pens wanted Tkachuk (pick) for MAF, I don;t think the price will be reasonable.

What I don;t like about PK is that he looks slow.  Whether he is or isn;t, that part bugs me.

 

$6.8m isn't crazy for a top 10 player.  In fact it's reasonable.  Must be retained salary from TO, because it shows it as a 8x8 contract.

He's 30, so he will slow down sometime.

Right now, he wold probably fit like a glove on our top line.

Just can;t picture a trade that works.

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Just now, travel_dude said:

 

How much would it cost to get a 92 point guy?

Considering that the Pens wanted Tkachuk (pick) for MAF, I don;t think the price will be reasonable.

What I don;t like about PK is that he looks slow.  Whether he is or isn;t, that part bugs me.

 

$6.8m isn't crazy for a top 10 player.  In fact it's reasonable.  Must be retained salary from TO, because it shows it as a 8x8 contract.

He's 30, so he will slow down sometime.

Right now, he wold probably fit like a glove on our top line.

Just can;t picture a trade that works.

Yeah we don’t match up too well with PIT. Our surplus is on D and they’ve got a solid top 4 already 

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The term is what hurts on Kessel. He is a skill set fit although I do question if he would fit the market. I lean no. 

 

Makes sense for the flames to inquire but to see a deal is tough. Despite his point totals I think his salary, term and reputation will lower his trade value to a certain degree but I'm not sure it will lower it enough to make it a fit. 

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3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Gio's contract is not high by NHL top pair standards.  Compare his to Suter's or Weber's.

He's still playing like a premiere player at a relative bargain price.  

Yes, his play will decline over time, and yes his offence was less these past two years.

Bear in mind that he played under Gully's system which saw him play less on the PP and a more defensive posture.

 

Obviously, we can't hang onto him forever.  If he's passed on the depth chart by Valimaki or Kylington, then his value will be just leadership.

The $100k question is when to trade him.  Can;t wait too long and can't trade him while he's an important part of this team.

Either way, the trade would have to be a relative overpayment from the other team.  They will have to pay for his leadership. 

 

If we were Cup contenders, then i wouldn't trade Gio.  He's still going to give us near Norris D for one more season before he presumably trends downwards.   But we are not that team.  We are barely regular season contenders who can't consistently make the playoffs.  If there's a team out there who thinks they are one Gio from winning the Cup, then we go raid their farm system and do a deal.

 

Tampa came close this year.  They have some nice young kids in the system.  Maybe they feel they are one Gio away from winning it all.  We could get one of Cal Foote, Taylor Raddysh, Boris Katchouk. 2019 first round pick.  and a 4th line NHLer (or minor cap dump).

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4 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Pens are rumoured to be looking to move on from Kessel, any interest? Yes I know he has an NMC, but it sounds like him and Sullivan's relationship has been ruined

 

 

I would like to see Edmonton take Kessel/Oscar-Myer and his contract.

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13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

If we were Cup contenders, then i wouldn't trade Gio.  He's still going to give us near Norris D for one more season before he presumably trends downwards.   But we are not that team.  We are barely regular season contenders who can't consistently make the playoffs.  If there's a team out there who thinks they are one Gio from winning the Cup, then we go raid their farm system and do a deal.

 

Tampa came close this year.  They have some nice young kids in the system.  Maybe they feel they are one Gio away from winning it all.  We could get one of Cal Foote, Taylor Raddysh, Boris Katchouk. 2019 first round pick.  and a 4th line NHLer (or minor cap dump).

How many years before we are serious contenders becomes the question ? I say 3. I also see Giordano as a valuable piece for these 3 years. You want some stability within the ranks and Giordano provides it. We won't know if his play will decline, think Chris Chelios or other solid defensemen that have play well through their late 30s. I think BT has to be on the look out for a RW player that could grow into a top 6 and would play well with Gaudreau and Monahan.

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Here is my trade suggestion of the day

Ferland, Mangiapane and Kylington to CAR for Elias Lindholm RW and Brock McGinn LW.

Why ? Ferland's value is likely as high as it will ever be however I feel he will be an injury away all the time. No offense to Mangiapane or Kylington but we need to get bigger and faster as a team.

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13 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Why ? Ferland's value is likely as high as it will ever be however I feel he will be an injury away all the time. 

 

I would definitely be quietly shopping Micheal Ferland. 

 

Love. 

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29 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

How many years before we are serious contenders becomes the question ? I say 3.

 

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

If we were Cup contenders,

 

I gotta say , this word and perception of "contender".. bugs me.. always has.. especially in this day and age ..

What is a contender and when do you finally acknowledge it exists ?

 

Washington , yes they have consistently been near the top of the regular season standings .. but they are arguably not as good a lineup as they were last year and now they are in the finals 

 

Winnipeg is being called a contender , and they iced a team very similar to the one that missed the playoffs last year and had people calling for a blow up 

 

That same Winnipeg team dispatched Nashville, the odds on favourite to win this year .. who by the way squeaked in last year and made the final 

Ottawa was one goal from the final last year .. tire fire this year 

 

Edmonton was near the top of the list of odds to start the season .. we saw how that worked out 

 

Vegas..'nuff said 

 

Pittsburgh.. done after 2 rounds 

Boston .. one of the most dominant teams I saw play all year .. tossed out in 2 

 

Point being , there are people who dont want , or criticize moves to make us better "too soon".. that we need to wait "until we are contenders "..

Fact is, we have maintained a growing pipeline .. no real name prospect has been moved out for the sake of a "run"..  yes we have traded some high picks .. but it was for players who are still on the roster and considered valuable.. no rentals 

We didn't give up 1st rounders for a Nash or Stastny who likely will have nothing..zero.. nada .. to show for it 

Perceived contenders give up the future for "Right Now ".. we have not done that .. we have given up picks for Better now and going forward 

 

No , we are not consistently making playoffs every year, tho that is the goal.. no we did not win our division .. no we do not get mentioned in the same conversation as these so called contenders 

 

Contender is a myth, and many times a lie.. "consistent" is more the accurate destination word that works 

 

Bottom line.. you do your best to get to the dance, and try and do it better and better each year ..  call it cliche , but there are 16 contenders in this league.. and they change every single year 

 

 

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14 hours ago, cross16 said:

The term is what hurts on Kessel. He is a skill set fit although I do question if he would fit the market. I lean no. 

 

Makes sense for the flames to inquire but to see a deal is tough. Despite his point totals I think his salary, term and reputation will lower his trade value to a certain degree but I'm not sure it will lower it enough to make it a fit. 

 

That is what I was thinking.  Can't see a deal that makes sense.  

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14 hours ago, cross16 said:

The term is what hurts on Kessel. He is a skill set fit although I do question if he would fit the market. I lean no. 

 

Makes sense for the flames to inquire but to see a deal is tough. Despite his point totals I think his salary, term and reputation will lower his trade value to a certain degree but I'm not sure it will lower it enough to make it a fit. 

 

I am not sure. From the chatter teams are concerned about trading for him because they are worried he will decline quickly due to a lack of overall fitness. Look at what happened to Heatley at 31/32. 

 

Granted, it's a legitimate concern and one that suggest caution for the Flames. But top RWs don't become available if there aren't concerns. Plus the contracts to Hamilton, Gaudreau, and Monahan give us the opportunity to take the risk. 

 

If you can get him for something like Ferland, Brodie, and Brouwer I would do it. If you have to change out Brouwer for Kylington/Anderson/Fox I would consider it depending on what other moves appear to be available and the scouts take on Kessler. If it costs more I am a hard no. 

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11 hours ago, redfire11 said:

I would like to see Edmonton take Kessel/Oscar-Myer and his contract.

No kidding .. why would we ever want a 3rd line Right Shot Right Winger , that scored 34 goals and 92 points last year (42 on the PP) .. that only carries a 6.8 cap hit(Toronto is paying part of his 8M)  on this team ... I mean , it's not like we're devoid of quality RW or need PP help or anything 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

I am not sure. From the chatter teams are concerned about trading for him because they are worried he will decline quickly due to a lack of overall fitness. Look at what happened to Heatley at 31/32. 

 

Granted, it's a legitimate concern and one that suggest caution for the Flames. But top RWs don't become available if there aren't concerns. Plus the contracts to Hamilton, Gaudreau, and Monahan give us the opportunity to take the risk. 

 

If you can get him for something like Ferland, Brodie, and Brouwer I would do it. If you have to change out Brouwer for Kylington/Anderson/Fox I would consider it depending on what other moves appear to be available and the scouts take on Kessler. If it costs more I am a hard no. 

 

Heatley was a different player .. he was built for the old NHL and did not change with it , he was slow and relied on his size and power.. much like Nash..  at the same time only injuries are slowing down Thornton , because he changed with it .

They talked about it on Fan this morning .. Kessel seems to have a shelf life of about 3-5 years not due to his production but rather just who he is , and in this case.. its likely just a pure cap dump.. rumors are they want to take a serious run at Tavares . The more a team takes on salary wise , the price likely isn't high 

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1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

 

Heatley was a different player .. he was built for the old NHL and did not change with it , he was slow and relied on his size and power.. much like Nash..  at the same time only injuries are slowing down Thornton , because he changed with it .

They talked about it on Fan this morning .. Kessel seems to have a shelf life of about 3-5 years not due to his production but rather just who he is , and in this case.. its likely just a pure cap dump.. rumors are they want to take a serious run at Tavares . The more a team takes on salary wise , the price likely isn't high 

 

I am for it. He definitely fits a need in Calgary, and I agree he will probably go for a bargain price. He has warts, but any 90 point player that becomes available does. 

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25 minutes ago, kehatch said:

f you can get him for something like Ferland, Brodie, and Brouwer I would do it. If you have to change out Brouwer for Kylington/Anderson/Fox I would consider it depending on what other moves appear to be available and the scouts take on Kessler. If it costs more I am a hard no. 

 

That doesn't seem like a bargain price to me.

If you remove the cap dump of Brouwer, we lose a quality D-man and a LW/RW with an unknown ceiling.

If you replace Brouwer with a top prospect, it's worse.

I know that the price should be higher for a player of that quality, but Brodie alone should net you Kessel.

Add Brouwer?  Sure.

 

Maybe Ferland/Kylington for Kessel and shop Brodie for Lindholm.  Or vice-versa.

You can never have too much RHS, especially on the PP.  Look at WPG's PP setup.

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1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

 

 

I gotta say , this word and perception of "contender".. bugs me.. always has.. especially in this day and age ..

What is a contender and when do you finally acknowledge it exists ?

 

Washington , yes they have consistently been near the top of the regular season standings .. but they are arguably not as good a lineup as they were last year and now they are in the finals 

 

Winnipeg is being called a contender , and they iced a team very similar to the one that missed the playoffs last year and had people calling for a blow up 

 

That same Winnipeg team dispatched Nashville, the odds on favourite to win this year .. who by the way squeaked in last year and made the final 

Ottawa was one goal from the final last year .. tire fire this year 

 

Edmonton was near the top of the list of odds to start the season .. we saw how that worked out 

 

Vegas..'nuff said 

 

Pittsburgh.. done after 2 rounds 

Boston .. one of the most dominant teams I saw play all year .. tossed out in 2 

 

Point being , there are people who dont want , or criticize moves to make us better "too soon".. that we need to wait "until we are contenders "..

Fact is, we have maintained a growing pipeline .. no real name prospect has been moved out for the sake of a "run"..  yes we have traded some high picks .. but it was for players who are still on the roster and considered valuable.. no rentals 

We didn't give up 1st rounders for a Nash or Stastny who likely will have nothing..zero.. nada .. to show for it 

Perceived contenders give up the future for "Right Now ".. we have not done that .. we have given up picks for Better now and going forward 

 

No , we are not consistently making playoffs every year, tho that is the goal.. no we did not win our division .. no we do not get mentioned in the same conversation as these so called contenders 

 

Contender is a myth, and many times a lie.. "consistent" is more the accurate destination word that works 

 

Bottom line.. you do your best to get to the dance, and try and do it better and better each year ..  call it cliche , but there are 16 contenders in this league.. and they change every single year 

 

 

I wouldn't say it's a myth however maybe we need to add "serious" contender to the conversation. Yes there are many elements that make up becoming a team that can seriously contend for the Cup. In using VEGAS, one could say they don't belong where they are and I would answer "just look at their make up" to see they definitely have the necessary ingredients. There will always be flukes such as OTT the past season when a handful of players have exceptional seasons and a goaltender especially. This is also why I don't have any problem with our team having playoffs as a goal but keep building towards the prize with smart move likes WPG did.

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37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That doesn't seem like a bargain price to me.

If you remove the cap dump of Brouwer, we lose a quality D-man and a LW/RW with an unknown ceiling.

If you replace Brouwer with a top prospect, it's worse.

I know that the price should be higher for a player of that quality, but Brodie alone should net you Kessel.

Add Brouwer?  Sure.

 

Maybe Ferland/Kylington for Kessel and shop Brodie for Lindholm.  Or vice-versa.

You can never have too much RHS, especially on the PP.  Look at WPG's PP setup.

I would be surprised if PIT traded Kessel, he seems to have found a home there.

I still think the best target to trade Brouwer is DAL for Spezza, bad contract for bad contract. Brouwer could actually be a fit there,where as Spezza with Gaudreau and Monahan for 1 season could work.

I wouldn't use Brodie to get Lindholm, CAR has a good crop of defensemen there now unless they want to move Faulk. I think there could be a deal there just not sure of the deal.

I would like Lindholm and McGinn if we could get both.

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