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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I gotta say , this word and perception of "contender".. bugs me.. always has.. especially in this day and age ..

What is a contender and when do you finally acknowledge it exists ?

 

I know what you mean.  "Contender" is merely a classification in the traditional sense assigned to a team with a previous track record of being among the best teams in the league in the regular season for a period of at least 2 straight seasons, or 3 in 4 kind of thing. And may have enjoyed some moderate playoff success.

 

This status alone does not determine destiny or future results. It merely uses past performance to project future success. 

 

Most importantly, ideologies around "contenders, pretenders, rebuilding teams, tankers," etc have developed where certain roster moves are deemed more proper and fitting by the general consensus.  You are obviously arguing to abolish these traditional limitations likely on the basis that teams are almost constantly on the fringe of one classification or another due to the salary cap inducing league parity. 

 

It is a valid argument but in practice, it doesn't make sense for a Arizona to trade their first round pick for Phil Kessel, for example.  For that, there are still legit situations to apply the terminology.  Moving forward, we should still be seeing these labels used but only for teams at the extreme ends of the spectrum where it is most obvious.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

That doesn't seem like a bargain price to me.

If you remove the cap dump of Brouwer, we lose a quality D-man and a LW/RW with an unknown ceiling.

If you replace Brouwer with a top prospect, it's worse.

I know that the price should be higher for a player of that quality, but Brodie alone should net you Kessel.

Add Brouwer?  Sure.

 

Maybe Ferland/Kylington for Kessel and shop Brodie for Lindholm.  Or vice-versa.

You can never have too much RHS, especially on the PP.  Look at WPG's PP setup.

Agree, that’s two decent proposals.

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1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

No kidding .. why would we ever want a 3rd line Right Shot Right Winger , that scored 34 goals and 92 points last year (42 on the PP) .. that only carries a 6.8 cap hit(Toronto is paying part of his 8M)  on this team ... I mean , it's not like we're devoid of quality RW or need PP help or anything 

 

 

Realistically Pitts could have put Troy Brouwer on a line with Malkin (98 points) and on a PP with Crosby, Malkin, Letang, shultz and Brouwer would be a steal at 4.5 mil with 80 to 90 points. I'm just saying I watched the Pens quite a bit this year and I saw from Kessel a Brouwer effort.

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54 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I wouldn't say it's a myth however maybe we need to add "serious" contender to the conversation. Yes there are many elements that make up becoming a team that can seriously contend for the Cup. In using VEGAS, one could say they don't belong where they are and I would answer "just look at their make up" to see they definitely have the necessary ingredients. There will always be flukes such as OTT the past season when a handful of players have exceptional seasons and a goaltender especially. This is also why I don't have any problem with our team having playoffs as a goal but keep building towards the prize with smart move likes WPG did.

If Calgary, as currently constructed, forechecked, backchecked and skated like Vegas on a consistent basis they’d also be a “serious” contender.  If they in addition had great coaching and historically a greatest playoff goaltending ever run, as Vegas does we’d be entering the SC finals as favorites, just as Vegas is now.  

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Just now, redfire11 said:

Realistically Pitts could have put Troy Brouwer on a line with Malkin (98 points) and on a PP with Crosby, Malkin, Letang, shultz and Brouwer would be a steal at 4.5 mil with 80 to 90 points. I'm just saying I watched the Pens quite a bit this year and I saw from Kessel a Brouwer effort.

 

Brouwer's effort is top notch.  He just lacks skills, talent, hockey iq, etc.  Actually, effort is all Brouwer has.

 

This contrasts Kessel who is generally economical in his effort and waits patiently for opportunities.

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17 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

If Calgary, as currently constructed, forechecked, backchecked and skated like Vegas on a consistent basis they’d also be a “serious” contender.  If they in addition had great coaching and historically a greatest playoff goaltending ever run, as Vegas does we’d be entering the SC finals as favorites, just as Vegas is now.  

???????

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IMO we won't be a contender until we add another top two center. Backlund should be a third liner on a contending team (and that's not a knock against him). 

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6 minutes ago, Fins&FIre15 said:

IMO we won't be a contender until we add another top two center. Backlund should be a third liner on a contending team (and that's not a knock against him). 

Jankowski will be a #2C soon enough and nothing wrong with Backlund at all.

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Bob McKenzie was speculating today that if Tampa can't come to terms with Kucherov  on an extension that they might look to trade him. McKenzie said that Kucherov sees himself as a $10m player and that he might price himself out of Tampa. Just pure speculation but does Dougie Hamilton straight across get us Kucherov. Kucherov is coming off a 100 point season and would be that top line RW that we covet. Tampa has some holes in their defense coming up as McDonagh, Coburn, Stralman and Girardi are all UFA's after next season. The other side to this is, would we want to pay $10m+ to a winger? I have always said that you don't over pay for wingers, but man Kucherov is a good player. and he is only 24.

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Bob McKenzie was speculating today that if Tampa can't come to terms with Kucherov  on an extension that they might look to trade him. McKenzie said that Kucherov sees himself as a $10m player and that he might price himself out of Tampa. Just pure speculation but does Dougie Hamilton straight across get us Kucherov. Kucherov is coming off a 100 point season and would be that top line RW that we covet. Tampa has some holes in their defense coming up as McDonagh, Coburn, Stralman and Girardi are all UFA's after next season. The other side to this is, would we want to pay $10m+ to a winger? I have always said that you don't over pay for wingers, but man Kucherov is a good player. and he is only 24.

 

Giordano.

 

 

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Bob McKenzie was speculating today that if Tampa can't come to terms with Kucherov  on an extension that they might look to trade him. McKenzie said that Kucherov sees himself as a $10m player and that he might price himself out of Tampa. Just pure speculation but does Dougie Hamilton straight across get us Kucherov. Kucherov is coming off a 100 point season and would be that top line RW that we covet. Tampa has some holes in their defense coming up as McDonagh, Coburn, Stralman and Girardi are all UFA's after next season. The other side to this is, would we want to pay $10m+ to a winger? I have always said that you don't over pay for wingers, but man Kucherov is a good player. and he is only 24.

 

Would love Kucherov, but 10m is too rich for my blood.  Maybe he deserves it, but I don’t like shelling out that kind of cash for a winger.  That’s Tavares type money, who I would rather have (both are pipe dreams likely).  With that said, these are negotiations.  Wasn’t Gio asking for 8 million apparently?  Johnny too as I recall.  Doesn’t mean that would be the final number.  It’s also possible that the lightning are being squeezed for more because of the bridge deal they signed him to earlier.  They got him for cheap last time, now it’s time to pay up kind of a deal.  If he would sign an 8x8 deal, I would consider trading Hamilton straight across, but we better have a plan to fill that hole on defence he would leave.

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I have a hard time believing the best GM in the league won't get it done.

More talking heads creating conversations, like Stamkos before and JT now.

I'll be shocked if JT leaves the Isles or Kucherov the lightning.

Just more idle chatter. Thanks Bob. Hopefully it gets you more subscriptions to your BobCast....but still not mine.

Whoever dubbed the term Hockey Insiders is a genius, and where did they hide the body of the real Dreger?

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I have a hard time believing the best GM in the league won't get it done.

More talking heads creating conversations, like Stamkos before and JT now.

I'll be shocked if JT leaves the Isles or Kucherov the lightning.

Just more idle chatter. Thanks Bob. Hopefully it gets you more subscriptions to your BobCast....but still not mine.

Whoever dubbed the term Hockey Insiders is a genius, and where did they hide the body of the real Dreger?

 

I think Tavares will test pre-UFA 3 days before July 1st to get a feel of the offers.  Just like Stamkos. 

 

If Tavares isn't signed by June 29 by the Isle, it suggests to me he's going to another team.

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4 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Bob McKenzie was speculating today that if Tampa can't come to terms with Kucherov  on an extension that they might look to trade him. McKenzie said that Kucherov sees himself as a $10m player and that he might price himself out of Tampa. Just pure speculation but does Dougie Hamilton straight across get us Kucherov. Kucherov is coming off a 100 point season and would be that top line RW that we covet. Tampa has some holes in their defense coming up as McDonagh, Coburn, Stralman and Girardi are all UFA's after next season. The other side to this is, would we want to pay $10m+ to a winger? I have always said that you don't over pay for wingers, but man Kucherov is a good player. and he is only 24.

Kucherov would be great and either Gio or Hamilton about right, but $10mm?  That would kind of screw up the team overall structure and might not go over too well with others, like Gaudreau.

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I have a hard time believing the best GM in the league won't get it done.

More talking heads creating conversations, like Stamkos before and JT now.

I'll be shocked if JT leaves the Isles or Kucherov the lightning.

Just more idle chatter. Thanks Bob. Hopefully it gets you more subscriptions to your BobCast....but still not mine.

Whoever dubbed the term Hockey Insiders is a genius, and where did they hide the body of the real Dreger?

Its a pretty quiet time for hockey, waiting on things to happen.  Don't mind the speculation at all.

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1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Kucherov would be great and either Gio or Hamilton about right, but $10mm?  That would kind of screw up the team overall structure and might not go over too well with others, like Gaudreau.

Eh, he got 100 points. That's only $100 thousand per.

Gaudreau had 84 for 6.75 so a bit better bang for the buck @ $80 per while @ 64 Monahan is just below $100 per.

It's all relative.

& as said, $10 million is the initial ask.

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I view it as a dirty deal when TSN Insiders break deals when SNET actually hold the rights.

The BobBlog should be about cheeseburgers.

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3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I view it as a dirty deal when TSN Insiders break deals when SNET actually hold the rights.

The BobBlog should be about cheeseburgers.

Over 1/2 the time unknown sports media in 1 of the affected cities break the news via twitter. Then the various "insiders" fall all over each other to be 1st to have it on their site.

There are no real insiders anymore. Before the net reporters were imbedded with their local team & got real insight. Now it feels like the players/management treat them like scavengers trying to milk stories that aren't there. Most of the time they are right.

 

& the GTA so called insiders are a bigger joke. How much information are they likely to get from management they seldom see on a team they watch on tv. Most of their stuff is throwing darts & seldom more accurate than Ekland.

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4 hours ago, ABC923 said:

 

Would love Kucherov, but 10m is too rich for my blood.  Maybe he deserves it, but I don’t like shelling out that kind of cash for a winger.  That’s Tavares type money, who I would rather have (both are pipe dreams likely).  With that said, these are negotiations.  Wasn’t Gio asking for 8 million apparently?  Johnny too as I recall.  Doesn’t mean that would be the final number.  It’s also possible that the lightning are being squeezed for more because of the bridge deal they signed him to earlier.  They got him for cheap last time, now it’s time to pay up kind of a deal.  If he would sign an 8x8 deal, I would consider trading Hamilton straight across, but we better have a plan to fill that hole on defence he would leave.

 

I am not saying I would like it, nor want it. But I am just wondering how it would relate to the iginla deal and how much percentage it took up our cap then?

 

maybe there was an issue with the city itself, but it was really hard to find compliment players to match Iginla. Eventually money wasn’t so much the issue. 

 

But I agree, that kind of money makes it harder to manage the cap.

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22 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

I am not sure. From the chatter teams are concerned about trading for him because they are worried he will decline quickly due to a lack of overall fitness. Look at what happened to Heatley at 31/32. 

 

Granted, it's a legitimate concern and one that suggest caution for the Flames. But top RWs don't become available if there aren't concerns. Plus the contracts to Hamilton, Gaudreau, and Monahan give us the opportunity to take the risk. 

 

If you can get him for something like Ferland, Brodie, and Brouwer I would do it. If you have to change out Brouwer for Kylington/Anderson/Fox I would consider it depending on what other moves appear to be available and the scouts take on Kessler. If it costs more I am a hard no. 

 

if he is Heatley cheap then I'm all ears. I'm not sure he gets to thst level unless he gets picky using his NMC, which is was Heatley was so cheap. 

 

Im just not for giving up top prospects or high picks. Ferland-Brodie-Brouwer is a little on the high side for me. hard no on giving up Andersson or Fox for Kessel. 

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Apologies, but if we’re talking about Kessel on our 1st line RW it’s a hard stop for me. He’s what, 3rd line RW in Pittsburgh? See, they’ve put him in a spot that he can utilize his strengths (shooting) while masking his weaknesses (fitness). He’s playing against 2nd and 3rd pairing defensemen and having success. If we’re thinking 1st line RW here, he’ll be up against 1st pairing D in the West, and as such, I wouldn’t expect similar scoring output. 

 

Having said that, are we willing to offer up those players in a trade for a player that wouldn’t (shouldn’t) be a top line RW here?

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Just looking at numbers and not video, it doesn't make sense at how Sprongs game hasn't translated better to the nhl.

 

I wonder if he needs a change of scenery.

 

I don't want to trade Andersson, but I doubt the pens would take anything but him. So I'd propose Andersson(sorry if I'm spelling that wrong) and Ruzicka for Sprong.

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11 minutes ago, Fins&FIre15 said:

Just looking at numbers and not video, it doesn't make sense at how Sprongs game hasn't translated better to the nhl.

 

I wonder if he needs a change of scenery.

 

I don't want to trade Andersson, but I doubt the pens would take anything but him. So I'd propose Andersson(sorry if I'm spelling that wrong) and Ruzicka for Sprong.

No Sprong for me. He’s got just as bad of an attitude as Kessel and apparently Sullivan has a hard time putting up with his antics. It’s one thing for an established commodity like Kessel to march to the beat of his own drum because you know what you’re getting. I’m not as ok with that in an unknown commodity like Sprong or even Ho Sang

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3 hours ago, lou44291 said:

Apologies, but if we’re talking about Kessel on our 1st line RW it’s a hard stop for me. He’s what, 3rd line RW in Pittsburgh? See, they’ve put him in a spot that he can utilize his strengths (shooting) while masking his weaknesses (fitness). He’s playing against 2nd and 3rd pairing defensemen and having success. If we’re thinking 1st line RW here, he’ll be up against 1st pairing D in the West, and as such, I wouldn’t expect similar scoring output. 

 

Having said that, are we willing to offer up those players in a trade for a player that wouldn’t (shouldn’t) be a top line RW here?

 

Having the luxury to play Kessel on the 3rd line and PP?

Still managed to score more than out #1 guy.

How would he not be a top RW here?  Compare him to what we have; Ferland, Frolik, Hathaway, Lazar, Shore....

 

Say, for sake of argument, you play him with Janko.  Would they not score a tonne (metric ton)?

Aren't we suffering from lack of secondary scoring?

Imagine a line of Tkachuk-Janko-Kessel.  

 

I'm not a huge fan of Kesssel, but I don;t see him regressing even on our top line.  Regular feeding from Johnny Hockey.  In the net.

We truly lack snipers on this team.

I can see a guy like Mangiapane (now) and Gawdin (possibly down the road) sniping a bunch, but that is not guaranteed.

We need to improve the team without costing the farm.   

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15 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

No Sprong for me. He’s got just as bad of an attitude as Kessel and apparently Sullivan has a hard time putting up with his antics. It’s one thing for an established commodity like Kessel to march to the beat of his own drum because you know what you’re getting. I’m not as ok with that in an unknown commodity like Sprong or even Ho Sang

Here is the thing on Kessel, even when I was obligated to hate him as a leaf, Ive always felt this "bad attitude" is incorrect 

Is he a Leader , rah rah , talk to the press, captain kind of guy ?  No..but not everybody is 

He is a guy that comes and does his job on the ice . Ive seen him on the bench, he pushes his linemates ..holds them accountable 

 

I mentioned earlier , they had a good chat about him on the fan.. one story that came up .. guys are pressing weights, he's sitting there reading a magazine.. they get on his case, so he gets in , outpresses everybody . then goes back to reading his magazine.  People around him call him a "Physical Freak" 

He has no interest in spotlight , just wants to play hockey ..but his teammates love him, and apparently hes got a great sense of humor away from the ice 

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