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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

I know but they have the players I would be after and like Phaneuf maybe they deserve another one as in Hamilton. I am just saying if they are willing to deal any of Marner, Nylander or Kapanen in a deal BT should listen. I would also be curious what CAR would be willing to move for Hamilton. Yes I am aware there are other trade situations available should Hamilton be a serious consideration. Personally I would find it hard to give up Hamilton's production but if he is a distraction he would best be gone.

If we were more skilled upfront, especially as I like to call it, "guys that aren't afraid to score", Hammy's production would be missed a whole lot less.

As it sits, unless Mony and Tkachuk are planning on scoring 50 apiece, we need snipes. One-timers, dirty-diggers, whatever.

Need more than 2. I only see 2 on our roster.

If Toronto wants to pass us 4th line Kapanen for Stone, great.

If not, I'm closing the door.

Marner and Nylander can be cheaper, just wait for the cap woes.

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1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

Should we target a goalie?  Maybe Malcom Subban?  Korpisalo?  

 

I'd be open to a starter in a better age range than Smith and dealing Smith personally. 

 

Not in favor of bringing in a younger guy. I like Rittich and Gilles, more so Gilles, getting continued playing time. and Parsons staying in the A. Drafting a goalie is probably a must too. 

 

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On 5/29/2018 at 0:07 PM, JTech780 said:

So I decided to channel my inner George McPhee and see if I can find a few forwards that maybe aren't getting a good enough look from their current team and could break out if given the chance.

 

Martin Frk: RHS RW, who put up 11 goals and 25 points in 68 games while averaging just over 10mins a night. That's solid production while playing on a 4th line. He is skilled but lacks consistency in the defensive end of the rink. 

 

Denis Malgin: Extremely skilled and shifty. He is small. Put up 11 goals and 22 points in 51 games while averaging 13:51mins a night. He is only 21 years old, so it is doubtful Florida would be willing to part with him.

 

Josh Leivo: Has never really been given a chance in Toronto, but he has put up 22 points in 57 career games. He has good size and skates well.

 

Jake Virtanen: Vancouver rushed Virtanen to NHL and have effectively dampened his upside. Might not be too late for him and he just seems like the type of player who needs a change. He has size, skating ability and a good shot.

 

Brett Connolly: Once was a 6th overall pick by Tampa, now he has turned into one of the best 4th liners in the entire league. He might be a guy who can give you more, if you give him more playing time and better linemates, if not he is still a great 3rd/4th liner.

 

Joel Armia: He has size and skill, once was a 1st round pick. He is another guy who could up his production with more playing time and he might just be a casualty of the impending cap crunch in Winnipeg.

 

Marko Dano: He can play all 3 forward positions, he has skill and has shown tenacity. Hasn't really ever been able to get his footing at the NHL level, and he might be passed over by other up and coming prospects in Winnipeg.

 

Josh Ho-Sang: Extremely skilled and extremely confident. Has been labeled as having attitude issues and a problem child. But when he been given his limited chances he has put up 22 points in 43 games mostly playing 3rd and 4th line minutes. I think he will reward the team that gives him the chance to play and play with skilled linemates.

Connelly and Ho-Sang I wouldn't back away from for sure.

Ho-Sang for Stone, I'd do that yesterday.

For me, Josh has found this jetstream of negative pub.

Too many focus on everything that's wrong with him. While overlooking what's good.

From what I've seen while hating the Spits and the IceDogs, there's a lot of good there.

IMHO, he's an upgrade on Ferland for 1RW.

Would be cheap methinks.

And seriously, is he going to have an attitude problem with Mony-JG? That really isn't even a possibility.

This is the kind of guy you grab at low value, not PTO's to a bunch of whatevers.

IIRC, he's actually a better producer at the NHL than the AHL.

Kid can be a force when I've seen him.

 

As I said earlier, get Mascherin to sign an ELC with us, give Florida a 4th, and if you now have Ho-Sang and Mascherin as RW prospects, you're fixing your RW depth for cheap.

It seems that's the way the Flames are talking, getting undervalued guys. There's 2, just in depth. Rather than ridiculously underwhelming project and PTO signings.

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9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I'd be open to a starter in a better age range than Smith and dealing Smith personally. 

 

Not in favor of bringing in a younger guy. I like Rittich and Gilles, more so Gilles, getting continued playing time. and Parsons staying in the A. Drafting a goalie is probably a must too. 

 

 

Ideally, Smith is our backup next season but we're pretty sure Rittich and Gillies aren't ready for a starters role.   What do we do?  Just roll the dice with them again? 

 

Is this a good idea given goaltending is arguably the most important position on the team?

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5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ideally, Smith is our backup next season but we're pretty sure Rittich and Gillies aren't ready for a starters role.   What do we do?  Just roll the dice with them again? 

 

Is this a good idea given goaltending is arguably the most important position on the team?

 

Ideally for me Smith is off the team and someone else is starting. That's a dream though and will tough to accomplish as there doesn't appear to be many goalies available that can come in and start. Thin market.

 

I think i'm more comfortable with the idea of Gilles and Rittich being better next year than you though. Personally i don't think Gilles was that bad given it was his first NHL action and he was really thrown to the wolves. I can see both making improvements and i'm not sure Subban or Korpisolo represent an upgrade. It's an equally similar roll of the dice IMO. 

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I think there is a very real potential that Rittich gets packaged. Teams need that cheap but good enough backup.

BT has said every 2nd draft year he wants a goalie, so that would be this year.

Gillies into the backup role, Parsons-/MacDonald A: Schneider/ECHL whore.

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7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Ideally for me Smith is off the team and someone else is starting. That's a dream though and will tough to accomplish as there doesn't appear to be many goalies available that can come in and start. Thin market.

 

I think i'm more comfortable with the idea of Gilles and Rittich being better next year than you though. Personally i don't think Gilles was that bad given it was his first NHL action and he was really thrown to the wolves. I can see both making improvements and i'm not sure Subban or Korpisolo represent an upgrade. It's an equally similar roll of the dice IMO. 

 

Not impossible to trade Smith because he's an ideal veteran backup but a tad pricey at $4.25-mil.  Final year though, so, makes him attractive.  Maybe the Flames retain $1-mil to move him.

 

But ya, no one is available.  Maybe Cory Schnieder?  

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2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not impossible to trade Smith because he's an ideal veteran backup but a tad pricey at $4.25-mil.  Final year though, so, makes him attractive.  Maybe the Flames retain $1-mil to move him.

 

But ya, no one is available.  Maybe Cory Schnieder?  

 

Maybe, but that's a tough contract to take on. Especially given his performance has slid a little bit and he's had some injuries. 

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59 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

If we were more skilled upfront, especially as I like to call it, "guys that aren't afraid to score", Hammy's production would be missed a whole lot less.

As it sits, unless Mony and Tkachuk are planning on scoring 50 apiece, we need snipes. One-timers, dirty-diggers, whatever.

Need more than 2. I only see 2 on our roster.

If Toronto wants to pass us 4th line Kapanen for Stone, great.

If not, I'm closing the door.

Marner and Nylander can be cheaper, just wait for the cap woes.

I guess I see more to this team than you do, especially if we were to add say Nylander, Reinhart and Kapanen (who is definitely more than a 4th liner, get real). These 3 additions collectively give us the capability for way more scoring.

Cap woes ? so are you one of these guys that thinks we will get and keep a top RW for 1.5M ? We are going to end up paying somewhere along the way to a SC.

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25 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I think there is a very real potential that Rittich gets packaged. Teams need that cheap but good enough backup.

BT has said every 2nd draft year he wants a goalie, so that would be this year.

Gillies into the backup role, Parsons-/MacDonald A: Schneider/ECHL whore.

We need that cheap capable back up so I don't see why would trade Rittich.

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18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not impossible to trade Smith because he's an ideal veteran backup but a tad pricey at $4.25-mil.  Final year though, so, makes him attractive.  Maybe the Flames retain $1-mil to move him.

 

But ya, no one is available.  Maybe Cory Schnieder?  

 

The only guys I can think that would be available are Grubauer and Carter Hutton. Hutton is a UFA, but do we want to risk another goalie from St. Louis who is putting up career numbers? I think Washington will trade Grubauer, I am just not sure how much it will cost to get him.

 

There are rumours floating that Chicago might be looking at trading Crawford, if true I would be calling about him. Two more years at $6m. I doubt he is available, but Chicago does need shed cap space.

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2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I guess I see more to this team than you do, especially if we were to add say Nylander, Reinhart and Kapanen (who is definitely more than a 4th liner, get real). These 3 additions collectively give us the capability for way more scoring.

Cap woes ? so are you one of these guys that thinks we will get and keep a top RW for 1.5M ? We are going to end up paying somewhere along the way to a SC.

Kapanen plays 4th line in Toronto, tell them to get real.:)

So WHAT are you giving up for all of these glorious players?

Work that out, and get back to me on who sees more in this team.

I used 1 maybe 2.

If you were to add, say, Nylander, Reinhart and Kapanen, how many roster players do we lose? 4-5, a prospect or 2?

 

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6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Kapanen plays 4th line in Toronto, tell them to get real.:)

So WHAT are you giving up for all of these glorious players?

Work that out, and get back to me on who sees more in this team.

I used 1 maybe 2.

If you were to add, say, Nylander, Reinhart and Kapanen, how many roster players do we lose? 4-5, a prospect or 2?

 

I put my trade proposal in the other thread using Hamilton and Brodie go read it. Kapanen would be the perfect player to take over for Frolik when his contract is done so if you can get him now make the deal. Trades don't happen in a vacuum and I think we all realize or should other moves need to take place around them.

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2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

The only guys I can think that would be available are Grubauer and Carter Hutton. Hutton is a UFA, but do we want to risk another goalie from St. Louis who is putting up career numbers? I think Washington will trade Grubauer, I am just not sure how much it will cost to get him.

 

There are rumours floating that Chicago might be looking at trading Crawford, if true I would be calling about him. Two more years at $6m. I doubt he is available, but Chicago does need shed cap space.

Hutton comes out of the Nashville org.

I would. Looks like he doesn't like being a backup to the Rinne's and Jake Allen's.

I think he's going to get a lot of interest this ufa.

2 @ $2.5 per is a nice insurance policy. I think someone will give him more term or dollar though.

He's an older goalie, so I'd max his term to 2 yrs personally. I think that's a 5 spot total, anymore, I'm backing away.

He was unbelievable for St Loo this year when Allen was downright bad.

If we'd have had him when Smith had his Smith-like injury, we might have been okay.

 

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9 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I put my trade proposal in the other thread using Hamilton and Brodie go read it. Kapanen would be the perfect player to take over for Frolik when his contract is done so if you can get him now make the deal. Trades don't happen in a vacuum and I think we all realize or should other moves need to take place around them.

I did.

Thanks for the philosophy lesson.

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On 5/29/2018 at 10:07 AM, JTech780 said:

So I decided to channel my inner George McPhee and see if I can find a few forwards that maybe aren't getting a good enough look from their current team and could break out if given the chance.

 

Martin Frk: RHS RW, who put up 11 goals and 25 points in 68 games while averaging just over 10mins a night. That's solid production while playing on a 4th line. He is skilled but lacks consistency in the defensive end of the rink. 

 

Denis Malgin: Extremely skilled and shifty. He is small. Put up 11 goals and 22 points in 51 games while averaging 13:51mins a night. He is only 21 years old, so it is doubtful Florida would be willing to part with him.

 

Josh Leivo: Has never really been given a chance in Toronto, but he has put up 22 points in 57 career games. He has good size and skates well.

 

Jake Virtanen: Vancouver rushed Virtanen to NHL and have effectively dampened his upside. Might not be too late for him and he just seems like the type of player who needs a change. He has size, skating ability and a good shot.

 

Brett Connolly: Once was a 6th overall pick by Tampa, now he has turned into one of the best 4th liners in the entire league. He might be a guy who can give you more, if you give him more playing time and better linemates, if not he is still a great 3rd/4th liner.

 

Joel Armia: He has size and skill, once was a 1st round pick. He is another guy who could up his production with more playing time and he might just be a casualty of the impending cap crunch in Winnipeg.

 

Marko Dano: He can play all 3 forward positions, he has skill and has shown tenacity. Hasn't really ever been able to get his footing at the NHL level, and he might be passed over by other up and coming prospects in Winnipeg.

 

Josh Ho-Sang: Extremely skilled and extremely confident. Has been labeled as having attitude issues and a problem child. But when he been given his limited chances he has put up 22 points in 43 games mostly playing 3rd and 4th line minutes. I think he will reward the team that gives him the chance to play and play with skilled linemates.

Of those, I'd consider Armia as a potential Frolik replacement. Dano would be interestng, but would depend on the price (anything more than someone like Lomberg/Hathaway or a late third pick, it would be a no, he's nothing but a tweener/13th forward at this point, and despite his upside, we should treat him as such). Connolly would be a good bottom 6 forward for us, and may be expendable this year as guys like Chandler Stephenson, Nathan Walker are establishing themselves and Shane Gersich pushing for spots as soon as next year with Washington.  The most intriguing would be Ho-Sang, because he has had issues in Long Island, but he has also demonstrated a high skill and being on pace for putting up decent points in his 2 brief stints (both 20 games) in a bottom 6 role is good. With the opportunity to be on a scoring line, the guy could definitely light it up. But the cost would have to be right.

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It’s believed around the league that Ottawa is gonna trade Karlsson.

 

They can’t tank though as they owe COL their first next year.

 

If they move Karlsson would/should we offer Dougie for Mark Stone. That instantly puts our top line in the conversation of Smith/Karlsson/Marchessault and Marchand/Bergeron/Pastrnak of best lines in the league IMO

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4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Ideally for me Smith is off the team and someone else is starting. That's a dream though and will tough to accomplish as there doesn't appear to be many goalies available that can come in and start. Thin market.

 

I think i'm more comfortable with the idea of Gilles and Rittich being better next year than you though. Personally i don't think Gilles was that bad given it was his first NHL action and he was really thrown to the wolves. I can see both making improvements and i'm not sure Subban or Korpisolo represent an upgrade. It's an equally similar roll of the dice IMO. 

 

So I would be in favor of having Grubauer/Saros ready to take on the starter role, since I think Smith may be trending towards an injury waiting to happen.

How we work that in with Gillies and Rittich is another story.  If they are ever going to be NHL starters, they need to start a decent amount of games.  

If you go that route, I think you would need to get Grubauer/Saros first, play him with Smith for the starter role and then trade Smith at the deadline.

Go with RIttich or Gillies as the backup from that point on.  

That is assuming that the other guy has proven his value.  

 

It's really difficult since we took on a starter that is old.  That is after taking on Elliott and taking on Hiller.  We wasted quite a few years and still don;t have a long term starter.

Smith just delays the inevitable.  Means we have to graduate a starter in 2019 that hasn't had that many games yet or get a Jones/Talbit/Raanta type. 

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You have to spend money to make money and and you need to give to get.

 

I have been a Tuch fan since the start of the season even when he was in and out the the Vegas lineup. He has worked hard to be a force and you can see it in the seasons end and the playoffs.

 

To Calgary:

David Clarkson LTIR 5.25 m on the IR books for 2 years

Alex Tuch ELC 9.25 k 1 year

Nick Suzuki elc 3 years or a 2nd and 3rd rnd pic next year

 

To Vegas:

Dougie Hamilton

Troy Brouwer

 

Brouwer and Clarkson a wash

so Hamiton for tuch and Suzuki

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I don't see Hamilton being moved realistically. I mean, over the last 3 years combined, Dougie is 6th in goals (tied with Erik Karlsson, and behind Burns, OEL, Giordano, Hedman, and Weber, in that order) , 17th in points among defensemen. In that time frame, he's only missed one game (only 5 Defensemen didn't miss a game). The defensemen ahead of him in goals also got considerably more PP time than he did (note that Hamilton tied Hedman for most goals from a d-man last year). For what Hamilton provides Calgary (especially at his cap hit), the return has to be incredible. We payed 1 first rounder and 2 second rounders to get him, and he has continued to develop and grow under us (setting career highs in goals and points his first year and his second year, and then just goals his third year, while not having a noticeable drop off in points overall) to the point where any return has to be greater than the price we paid. Seeing as we are not rebuilding anymore, it's safe to say picks aren't going to cut it for him (at least not just picks).Your looking at a top 4 D-man(25-30 years old)+top 6 forward (again, around 25-28 years old)+2nd/3rd round pick(s)/prospect(s) close to making the NHL. If a team is desperate enough to pay that price, than yes trade him. Otherwise, I really feel his value with the team is better than what we would get. If we trade to someone like Vegas, we better be getting Tuch, either Theodore or Schmidt (preferably Theodore), and Suzuki/picks back.

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43 minutes ago, Khrox said:

I don't see Hamilton being moved realistically. I mean, over the last 3 years combined, Dougie is 6th in goals (tied with Erik Karlsson, and behind Burns, OEL, Giordano, Hedman, and Weber, in that order) , 17th in points among defensemen. In that time frame, he's only missed one game (only 5 Defensemen didn't miss a game). The defensemen ahead of him in goals also got considerably more PP time than he did (note that Hamilton tied Hedman for most goals from a d-man last year). For what Hamilton provides Calgary (especially at his cap hit), the return has to be incredible. We payed 1 first rounder and 2 second rounders to get him, and he has continued to develop and grow under us (setting career highs in goals and points his first year and his second year, and then just goals his third year, while not having a noticeable drop off in points overall) to the point where any return has to be greater than the price we paid. Seeing as we are not rebuilding anymore, it's safe to say picks aren't going to cut it for him (at least not just picks).Your looking at a top 4 D-man(25-30 years old)+top 6 forward (again, around 25-28 years old)+2nd/3rd round pick(s)/prospect(s) close to making the NHL. If a team is desperate enough to pay that price, than yes trade him. Otherwise, I really feel his value with the team is better than what we would get. If we trade to someone like Vegas, we better be getting Tuch, either Theodore or Schmidt (preferably Theodore), and Suzuki/picks back.

 

I think it is unlikely as well. But not impossible. The Flames missed the playoffs and want to make changes. They need help at goal and RW. They could also use another centre. They have limited options to do this. 

 

Picks: Given the lack of picks in this year's draft it is unlikely the Flames are making an impact trade with picks going out. 

 

Prospects: Due to the lack of picks the Flames will probably be reluctant to trade many prospects. That said, the Flames have Anderson, Kylington, Fox, Valimaki, and Kulak so they may use one of them. There is a reasonable chance one of these guys is moved, though they won't bring back a big player on their own. 

 

Goalie: They may also trade a young goalie (Rittich/Gilles). They may even trade Smith if they acquire someone else. But none will bring back a big return. 

 

Forward: The guys that would bring back a big return almost certainly aren't getting moved. The guys they would trade (Ferland, Bennett, Brouwer, Frolik) won't bring back a big return. Maybe they move a guy like Jankowski (probably not), but even then they won't get a huge return. 

 

Defence: This is one of the few areas the Flames have the assets and depth to make a splash. They probably won't move their captain. Stone might be moved but that doesn't get you much (if anything). So that leaves Hamonic, Brodie, and Hamilton. Given Hamonic was acquired last year and we would take a loss to move him (plus the drama of him wanting to play near his family) he probably won't be moved. That leaves Brodie and Hamilton. Brodie is the most likely to move, but he won't get as big of a return. The Flames could opt to move Brodie back with Giordano (where he was great) and get a big return on Hamilton. 

 

The Flames may keep the D intact and see how it performs with a new coach. The Flames could package Bennett with a D prospect (for example) to make a move. The remaining changes could be addressed with minor trades and via free agency. In fact, unless they get a big return for Brodie I think this is the most likely outcome. But I won't be shocked if Hamilton gets moved. 

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1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

I think it is unlikely as well. But not impossible. The Flames missed the playoffs and want to make changes. They need help at goal and RW. They could also use another centre. They have limited options to do this. 

 

Picks: Given the lack of picks in this year's draft it is unlikely the Flames are making an impact trade with picks going out. 

 

Prospects: Due to the lack of picks the Flames will probably be reluctant to trade many prospects. That said, the Flames have Anderson, Kylington, Fox, Valimaki, and Kulak so they may use one of them. There is a reasonable chance one of these guys is moved, though they won't bring back a big player on their own. 

 

Goalie: They may also trade a young goalie (Rittich/Gilles). They may even trade Smith if they acquire someone else. But none will bring back a big return. 

 

Forward: The guys that would bring back a big return almost certainly aren't getting moved. The guys they would trade (Ferland, Bennett, Brouwer, Frolik) won't bring back a big return. Maybe they move a guy like Jankowski (probably not), but even then they won't get a huge return. 

 

Defence: This is one of the few areas the Flames have the assets and depth to make a splash. They probably won't move their captain. Stone might be moved but that doesn't get you much (if anything). So that leaves Hamonic, Brodie, and Hamilton. Given Hamonic was acquired last year and we would take a loss to move him (plus the drama of him wanting to play near his family) he probably won't be moved. That leaves Brodie and Hamilton. Brodie is the most likely to move, but he won't get as big of a return. The Flames could opt to move Brodie back with Giordano (where he was great) and get a big return on Hamilton. 

 

The Flames may keep the D intact and see how it performs with a new coach. The Flames could package Bennett with a D prospect (for example) to make a move. The remaining changes could be addressed with minor trades and via free agency. In fact, unless they get a big return for Brodie I think this is the most likely outcome. But I won't be shocked if Hamilton gets moved. 

Why do we need help at Goalie ? Why do we need help at C ? Fix RW and we have ourselves a team. We will only get quality players by trading quality players. I think with obtaining the quality on RW and removing what Brodie and Hamilton give up defensively we would be a better team. BT can address the vacated defense positions a few different ways.

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