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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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6 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

There is nothing wrong with staying with a chosen path for your prospects either. Your thinking isn't wrong if you see that situation leading to a SC this coming season which many of us do not. I don't think GG managed the goalie starts particularly well and the injury situation lead to a rush in the number of starts that Rittich received but now he has those experiences both good and bad, that is how you best learn.

 

Rittich isn't really a prospect.  He is a mid 20s UFA pick-up with over 100 pro games.  He is a very similar situation that Ramo was in when we picked him up.  I am not suggesting it is impossible he improves. But if Lack wasn't terrible and Rittich didn't look good in his first 7-starts we would all be thinking about him as he was, a veteran pick-up for the AHL.  He never returned to form after those 7-starts.  It is wishful thinking that he is going to come out and be an NHL starter, and it is futile thinking to suggest we shouldn't be at least evaluating our other options.  

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3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Goalies can do a lot but also can only do it for so long if a team is poor at defending. We finished near the bottom for a lot of reasons, not just goaltending. 

 

We got great goaltending at the start and still ended up with a horrible 1st 15-20 games. Then he saved our season and was a huge reason we could even sniff at the playoffs later in the season. 

 

Damned if you do and definitely more damned if you don’t.

 

but goaltending was supposed to put us over the edge last year and for about half a year of really good goaltending, it still barely got the job done.

 

I agree that the Flames need to be better as a whole.  I am just saying that sticking with Rittich based on 7-games of unexpected good play (and a bunch more of not good play) without considering your options would be silly.  

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2 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

Rittich isn't really a prospect.  He is a mid 20s UFA pick-up with over 100 pro games.  He is a very similar situation that Ramo was in when we picked him up.  I am not suggesting it is impossible he improves. But if Lack wasn't terrible and Rittich didn't look good in his first 7-starts we would all be thinking about him as he was, a veteran pick-up for the AHL.  He never returned to form after those 7-starts.  It is wishful thinking that he is going to come out and be an NHL starter, and it is futile thinking to suggest we shouldn't be at least evaluating our other options.  

 

Bernier has had his ups and doens. I would never have taken him after Toronto, but he has shown the ability to bounce back.

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1 minute ago, kehatch said:

 

I agree that the Flames need to be better as a whole.  I am just saying that sticking with Rittich based on 7-games of unexpected good play (and a bunch more of not good play) without considering your options would be silly.  

 

I don’t see his good play as that unexpected. He had shown he could play like that in the AHL. 

 

His mental toughness might’ve gone though. I see where that fear is coming from. But I see history more the prior than the latter in his play, but suited to a decent backup.

 

even mcelheiney is still in the league, and i like Rittich more than him. 

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4 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

The Flames best players are at the top of their game. Going into next season with questionable goal tending and a lack of forward depth would be a poor approach imo. 

 

 

Nor am I suggesting no improvement. But to say we need to get better in net, need to get better at RW, need better than Jankowski, need help on the fourth line and that it all need to be external I don't agree with. I think many of the questions and many of the depth issues can be solved by putting players in better positions to succeed. I think the flames need some right hand shots and that's going to have to come externally, but I think there are many answers already in the organization and let's start finding them and giving them an opportunity and stop always trying to go outside. Need to have more faith in what we have. 

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3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Bernier has had his ups and doens. I would never have taken him after Toronto, but he has shown the ability to bounce back.

 

Bernier was an 11 overall pick who then put up elite numbers in the AHL. Rittich is an undrafted free agent signing from Europe with one AHL season of slightly above average numbers.  Bernier's worst season in the NHL was better then Rittich best.  You are reaching. 

 

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I don’t see his good play as that unexpected. He had shown he could play like that in the AHL. 

 

His mental toughness might’ve gone though. I see where that fear is coming from. But I see history more the prior than the latter in his play, but suited to a decent backup.

 

even mcelheiney is still in the league, and i like Rittich more than him. 

 

That is a better comparison.  But not exactly one suggesting the Flames shouldn't be looking at alternatives, especially with Smith approaching retirement.  

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4 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

Bernier was an 11 overall pick who then put up elite numbers in the AHL. Rittich is an undrafted free agent signing from Europe with one AHL season of slightly above average numbers.  Bernier's worst season in the NHL was better then Rittich best.  You are reaching. 

 

 

That is a better comparison.  But not exactly one suggesting the Flames shouldn't be looking at alternatives, especially with Smith approaching retirement.  

 

Yeah, I just see Bernier as a better back-up. I don’t see him as starter material. He can start many games in short stints. But I don’t think a Bernier would do well in Calgary anyway. We give up too many Grade-A chances.

 

I guess he’s better but I also don’t like the price tag. I am Willing to give Rittich a chance to backup. Not to long term starter. I don’t think I see a starter in Gillies either. I worry about Parsons as well. 

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1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

Put this another way.  If Rittich was a free agent, or on another team, would you be targeting him to back up Smith?  My guess is not a single person here would, and if they did the forum would dead against it.  Why?  Because he doesn't have a lot of upside.  He is a mid 20s European UFA signing with a rough season under his belt. 

 

But because we saw him play a handful of games with the red C where he looked good (and a bunch more where he didn't) we shouldn't be in the market to look for an upgrade?  Smith has an end date and is an injury risk.  If Treliving isn't looking at the options available then he isn't doing his job.  He may not find a better option in his price range, but sports fan's ability to exclude all options but the one in front of them is astounding at times.  

 

Despite a strong start we finished near the bottom in goal tending again last year.  Of course we should be looking for an upgrade.  

like i said in another post ,  if a trade can be made for a more improved backup that includes Rittich in the deal , then ok .. but the only way you do it is move Rittich out , cuz he wont clear waivers. and ya , if we were in the market for a backup and he was on another team.. i'm sure his name would come up 

but right now, im more than satisfied going into the season with what we have, I'm not thinking we need to be actively searching 

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MacIllheny, Bernier, heck throw Reimer in there.

I'd prefer Rittich personally.

One thing you can't teach a goalie down the road is the mechanics and the fundies.

Ramo was brought up earlier, god what a mess he was.

I don't see Rittich as "older" at 26.

I think we forget when he was the backup to a healthy Smith last year he was the polar opposite of Smith.

So if you're coming in looking at getting to Smith, but face Rittich instead, it's the exact opposite.

Rittich is calm and it shows in how quiet he keeps the net.

Plus, how many games did Smith steal last year, almost all of them? If you're going to be a good team, that shouldn't be happening.

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maybe we can make everybody in all the threads happy at once . wonder what kind of package including Rittich we'd have to put together to get Wilson and Grubauer?

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3 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

maybe we can make everybody in all the threads happy at once . wonder what kind of package including Rittich we'd have to put together to get Wilson and Grubauer?

Not quite everyone:P

 

Would we be getting Ovi and Backstrom with Wilson? Or just the 3rd liner of the group?

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1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

Not quite everyone:P

true enough..im not convinced Grubauer is better than Rittich.. but id wiling to call it a draw.. but I would certainly take Wilson over Reaves 

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Just now, phoenix66 said:

true enough..im not convinced Grubauer is better than Rittich.. but id wiling to call it a draw.. but I would certainly take Wilson over Reaves 

Sorry boss, I threw an edit in there...

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1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

Rittich isn't really a prospect.  He is a mid 20s UFA pick-up with over 100 pro games.  He is a very similar situation that Ramo was in when we picked him up.  I am not suggesting it is impossible he improves. But if Lack wasn't terrible and Rittich didn't look good in his first 7-starts we would all be thinking about him as he was, a veteran pick-up for the AHL.  He never returned to form after those 7-starts.  It is wishful thinking that he is going to come out and be an NHL starter, and it is futile thinking to suggest we shouldn't be at least evaluating our other options.  

I'm done with you

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37 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

How bout Korpisalo?  Available?  Seems pretty steady but isn't getting the time of day playing behind Bobrovsky.  What would it cost us?

only 2 years younger than Rittich..  played just 18 games .. 8-8 with an .897.. is he an upgrade ?

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54 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

How bout Korpisalo?  Available?  Seems pretty steady but isn't getting the time of day playing behind Bobrovsky.  What would it cost us?

You talked about Samsonov in another thread.

Given Holtby's stellar play and his age, I think WASH is more like to part with Grubauer than Samsonov.

Grubauer is not getting the starter role any time soon, so he will want to move on.

WASH will not want to pay him more than a backup's pay, especially this year with other cap pressures.

 

Not everyone is sold on Gru, but he has had pretty darn good regular seasons.  

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32 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

You talked about Samsonov in another thread.

Given Holtby's stellar play and his age, I think WASH is more like to part with Grubauer than Samsonov.

Grubauer is not getting the starter role any time soon, so he will want to move on.

WASH will not want to pay him more than a backup's pay, especially this year with other cap pressures.

 

Not everyone is sold on Gru, but he has had pretty darn good regular seasons.  

thats what makes me think they might be open to a swap of RFA rights .. see if we can swing a way to include Wilson .. maybe McLellan can do his old team a favor :) 

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1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

thats what makes me think they might be open to a swap of RFA rights .. see if we can swing a way to include Wilson .. maybe McLellan can do his old team a favor :) 

 

Wilson and Grubauer for Brodie and Bennett.

There, everything is fixed now.  :)

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Gawd, no. 

 

Love. 

Exactly.  Why all the love for Wilson?  If you look at what he does and his stats he's like a slower Ferland-lite, just way more over-the-edge hits.  I'd focus more on skill and speed upgrades.  With Ferland, Bennett and Tkachuk we already have a great start on hard to play against/agitator.

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34 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Gawd, no. 

 

Love. 

 

Wilson single-handedly destroyed Vegas's "first line" with a cheapshot on Marchessault.  That hit won't get considered a key play overall by the masses but we all know Marchessault has not been the same since.  He's either hurt, scared, or both.  It was a dirty hit but it came from a guy who understands what it takes to win.  He pretty much injured the entire Pens blueline to send the Caps to the Finals.

 

Had the Caps been "nice" like they always have been in the playoffs, they wouldn't be on their way to hoisting the Cup in a week.  And, let's face it, the Flames are too "nice".  

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9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Not quite everyone:P

 

Would we be getting Ovi and Backstrom with Wilson? Or just the 3rd liner of the group?

He may ordinarily be a third liner, but that's what we've been working with for Johnny and Mony. The difference is, we know if Wilson is out there no one is hacking Gaudreau for fear Wilson will rip their head off.


I see him and Ferland as comparable though, Ferland is a bit more skilled, but doesn't use his size as much (Wilson has 2 inches and 10 pounds on him, but really, Ferland isn't a small guy, if he played a bit more physical, I feel like half the after-whistle stuff that happens to Johnny and Mony wouldn't happen). Hell, if you look at the last 3 years (basically when Ferland became a full timer), they have the same point totals (Ferland has more goals, Wilson has more assists), and both of them had breakout years this year playing primarily on the top line. The big difference is, Wilson is an established PKer for Washington, while Ferland played on our second powerplay. 

Really, I do love Wilson, but I feel like Ferland could easily do what Wilson does minus the fighting if he was encouraged to do it.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Wilson single-handedly destroyed Vegas's "first line" with a cheapshot on Marchessault.  That hit won't get considered a key play overall by the masses but we all know Marchessault has not been the same since.  He's either hurt, scared, or both.  It was a dirty hit but it came from a guy who understands what it takes to win.  He pretty much injured the entire Pens blueline to send the Caps to the Finals.

 

Had the Caps been "nice" like they always have been in the playoffs, they wouldn't be on their way to hoisting the Cup in a week.  And, let's face it, the Flames are too "nice".  

 

Yeah, no disagreement there - I just don't think that Philipp Grubauer and Tom Wilson are worth Bennett and Brodie. I don't think they are players we should be targeting, and I definitely don't think those are the assets we should be giving up for them. I'm all ears on Brodie, and I think he gets a decent return, but I don't think Bennett is the throw in on this trade. That'd be a big mistake. 

 

Love. 

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6 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Yeah, no disagreement there - I just don't think that Philipp Grubauer and Tom Wilson are worth Bennett and Brodie. I don't think they are players we should be targeting, and I definitely don't think those are the assets we should be giving up for them. I'm all ears on Brodie, and I think he gets a decent return, but I don't think Bennett is the throw in on this trade. That'd be a big mistake. 

 

Love. 

I agree with you on Brodie and Bennett. Bennett really needs to breakout with some offense this next season, putting him in a deal now would be giving him away. WAS won't be trading Wilson any time soon. I would target CAR for Brodie in an attempt to get Elias Lindholm RW. I would like to see a line of Bennett LW, Backlund C and Lindholm RW which should provide more offense and remain strong defensively. This would also allow us to deploy Frolik on another line.

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