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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

I feel like they’re all already nearly caught up. Van is just a bit younger in their core group and a few players away from being even with us. They’ll probably get those players in this draft. They’ll just be a few years behind because they’re a bit younger. We will top out before then, but how far can we go when we top out?

I think this is being generous to VAN or ARZ, both have quite a ways to go I order to be take seriously.

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10 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Pure genius JTech tell us what we don't know. A team needs a lot of different elements, not just skill and speed alone either. Sport is a battle and if you don't have an answer for what your opposition throws at you, you leave yourself exposed. Could we use more skill, yes. Could we use better defense, yes, could we use more pure scorers yes and we need players that will carry out an aggressive hitting forecheck to boot. You are right about one thing there were a lot of reason this past team never made the playoffs.

 

We have the guys to carry out an aggressive hitting forecheck Ferland, Bennett, Tkachuk, Hathaway, Lazar. Adding more doesn't make this team better. 

 

You can go ahead respond to this if you like, but I will be adding you to my ignore list, as you can't seem to handle when people disagree with you. I am absolutely fine with having a discussion and having opposing views, but let's be civil about it, you can't manage that.

 

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27 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

We had the 2nd most fighting majors in the league last year, we had no problem sticking for our players. Did having Reaves stop Wilson from taking a cheap shot at Marchesault? Even if we did have a player like Reaves or Wilson, guys like Buff and Lucic are still going to do what they do, they way you even the score is on the score board. I am all for having toughness, but you can't toughness in place of being able to actually play the game. 

 

Toughness or the imagined lack of toughness had nothing to do with the fact that we didn't make the playoffs this year. There are plenty of reasons we aren't in the playoffs, toughness just isn't one of them. How about the fact that only Buffalo, Montreal, Arizona and Vancouver scored less goals 5v5 than we did. How about the fact that we had the 3rd worst PP in the league. How about the fact that we had the 3rd worst shooting percentage in the league.

 

To me it seems like we have a lack of skill issue more than we have a lack of toughness issue.

 

Just to add we also had the 11th worst save percentage in the league, while facing the 10th fewest shots per game. 

 

The running theme from teams like LA, Anaheim, and Edmonton so far this offseason, has been that they need to get faster and more skilled, those teams combined with Vegas, Arizona and Vanouver are focusing on speed and skill, if we don't do the same we will fall behind very quickly. 

Best quote I ever heard.  shortly after Bill Torre passed away , Bran Burke shared a conversation from early in his career.. he asked Torre, "how do you win a cup?"

his reply ..

You have to beat 4 teams to win it

One will come at you with Skill

One will come at you with Speed 

One will try to beat you up 

The 4th will try to do all 3.. you need to be better than them in all 3 areas 

 

 

Vegas is sticking with an attempt at speed and skill , and are well on their way to losing the series because they are now being manhandled because Washington is doing all 3 . Whats ironic is they are choosing to ignore that part of the game when they have a few soldiers who can reply 

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Marc Andre Fleury save percentage is below 90 in the Stanley cup final so far. But yes Washington is winning because they are tougher......

 

sheesh. Hockey will just never change I guess. 

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8 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Best quote I ever heard.  shortly after Bill Torre passed away , Bran Burke shared a conversation from early in his career.. he asked Torre, "how do you win a cup?"

his reply ..

You have to beat 4 teams to win it

One will come at you with Skill

One will come at you with Speed 

One will try to beat you up 

The 4th will try to do all 3.. you need to be better than them in all 3 areas 

 

 

Vegas is sticking with an attempt at speed and skill , and are well on their way to losing the series because they are now being manhandled because Washington is doing all 3 . Whats ironic is they are choosing to ignore that part of the game when they have a few soldiers who can reply 

 

I wouldn't say Washington is manhandling Vegas. Vegas is going hard to the net and is running Holtby quite a bit. Neal had a huge reverse hit on Orpik last game. Washington is up by one game and have scored one more goal than Vegas has. The series very close.

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19 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think this is being generous to VAN or ARZ, both have quite a ways to go I order to be take seriously.

 

Well; it’s why I said they’ll draft some players this year that will bridge that gap. Then they have to mature. 

 

Their first line is mostly set. Then they have Peterson and Lind coming in and a 2nd line will be made. Their D could be nearly shored up. I don’t think they’re as far behind as you think. 

 

We we still have a lot to do and that’s fill out the 1st line, which should solidify the 3rd line and then the 4th can be whatever. They’re a 3rd line away to being even in the forward group. 

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3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I wouldn't say Washington is manhandling Vegas. Vegas is going hard to the net and is running Holtby quite a bit. Neal had a huge reverse hit on Orpik last game. Washington is up by one game and have scored one more goal than Vegas has. The series very close.

oh please Wash is treating them like their B**** right now ..    running MAF , no response.. cross check to the head, no response(which I should point out was Kuznetsov on McNabb. the player who hit him the prev game). Vegas only got a goal yesterday cuz Holtby passed it to him 

 

they are still in it , but like I said before if they try to finesse their way back into this , they are done 

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2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Well; it’s why I said they’ll draft some players this year that will bridge that gap. Then they have to mature. 

 

Their first line is mostly set. Then they have Peterson and Lind coming in and a 2nd line will be made. Their D could be nearly shored up. I don’t think they’re as far behind as you think. 

 

We we still have a lot to do and that’s fill out the 1st line, which should solidify the 3rd line and then the 4th can be whatever. They’re a 3rd line away to being even in the forward group. 

Petterson and Lind have proven nothing in the NHL yet, if they ever do.  Just because the canucks are drinking that kool-aid doesn't mean it will happen.  

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3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

We have the guys to carry out an aggressive hitting forecheck Ferland, Bennett, Tkachuk, Hathaway, Lazar. Adding more doesn't make this team better. 

 

You can go ahead respond to this if you like, but I will be adding you to my ignore list, as you can't seem to handle when people disagree with you. I am absolutely fine with having a discussion and having opposing views, but let's be civil about it, you can't manage that.

 

Appears you can't either. You advocate your players and quit running down everyone else's and you just might get a civil reply. You are as guilty as the rest of us.

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7 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Appears you can't either. You advocate your players and quit running down everyone else's and you just might get a civil reply. You are as guilty as the rest of us.

 

If you give suggestions on here be prepared to have people disagree with you, as this a discussion board. If you don't want people to give their opinion don't post on here.  I am able to give my opinion and take other people's opinions without resorting to name calling or getting bent out of shape when people disagree with me, I can't say the same for you. 

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17 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Petterson and Lind have proven nothing in the NHL yet, if they ever do.  Just because the canucks are drinking that kool-aid doesn't mean it will happen.  

 

Hahaha! Spoken like a homer who seems to overrate every one of our prospects! I mention a few on another team but it’s Kool aid. I am a bit more realistic than that with our own prospects. None of ours have proven anything in the nhl either but you’re willing to give 3-6 of them a chance and graduate them. I don’t have any faith in ours yet either. Many are only borderline NHLers if that. Maybe a couple will surprise? I’d be happy with that. We can do a lot better at th draft.

 

The only ones I have faith are Valimaki and Andersson. 

 

Mang has shown he can skate, but that’s about it. 

 

Janks even slowed down throughout the year; hopefully they he takes a step... 

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36 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

If you give suggestions on here be prepared to have people disagree with you, as this a discussion board. If you don't want people to give their opinion don't post on here.  I am able to give my opinion and take other people's opinions without resorting to name calling or getting bent out of shape when people disagree with me, I can't say the same for you. 

Voice your opinion just don't try and give me a lesson in hockey like I am some 12 year old kid. What do you want, I did call you a genius.

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31 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Hahaha! Spoken like a homer who seems to overrate every one of our prospects! I mention a few on another team but it’s Kool aid. I am a bit more realistic than that with our own prospects. None of ours have proven anything in the nhl either but you’re willing to give 3-6 of them a chance and graduate them. I don’t have any faith in ours yet either. Many are only borderline NHLers if that. Maybe a couple will surprise? I’d be happy with that. We can do a lot better at th draft.

 

The only ones I have faith are Valimaki and Andersson. 

 

Mang has shown he can skate, but that’s about it. 

 

Janks even slowed down throughout the year; hopefully they he takes a step... 

To get back on the discussion as it occurred, the claim was made that Vancouver will be set with their top 2 lines with these new guys, and after the upcoming draft will quickly close the gap with the Flames and move ahead.  I was only pointing out that rookies are by no means proven, ours included.  The team that is able to move ahead the fastest relative to others is the one with the most players/coaches... that make it and are an upgrade on what they are replacing.  Vancouver might be that team, Calgary might be that team.  We shall see.  What is clear is that Calgary is way ahead at the present time, so for Vancouver to catch and pass us they'll not only have to improve, but improve by a significant margin over what Calgary is able to do.  That will be a tough task.

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12 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

To get back on the discussion as it occurred, the claim was made that Vancouver will be set with their top 2 lines with these new guys, and after the upcoming draft will quickly close the gap with the Flames and move ahead.  I was only pointing out that rookies are by no means proven, ours included.  The team that is able to move ahead the fastest relative to others is the one with the most players/coaches... that make it and are an upgrade on what they are replacing.  Vancouver might be that team, Calgary might be that team.  We shall see.  What is clear is that Calgary is way ahead at the present time, so for Vancouver to catch and pass us they'll not only have to improve, but improve by a significant margin over what Calgary is able to do.  That will be a tough task.

 

I said in my original post that they’ll still be a few years behind us because their core will take time to mature, but I meant not that far. I also explained they’re probably a 3rd line behind us after this draft. I just didn’t say when. I think they still have 2 or 3 years before they start sniffing at a playoff. That’s roughly a 5 or 6 year rebuild for them. The same time some of us predicted ours would be. 

 

We aren’t even guaranteed playoffs this next coming year.i just said I think Vancouver is closer than we think.

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46 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Hahaha! Spoken like a homer who seems to overrate every one of our prospects! I mention a few on another team but it’s Kool aid. I am a bit more realistic than that with our own prospects. None of ours have proven anything in the nhl either but you’re willing to give 3-6 of them a chance and graduate them. I don’t have any faith in ours yet either. Many are only borderline NHLers if that. Maybe a couple will surprise? I’d be happy with that. We can do a lot better at th draft.

 

The only ones I have faith are Valimaki and Andersson. 

 

Mang has shown he can skate, but that’s about it. 

 

Janks even slowed down throughout the year; hopefully they he takes a step... 

 

There's some reason to have some faith in the prospects.

Dube was a solid player in the WJC, and in the WHL playoffs.  He's a dedicated team player.  Backlund-esque.  

Mangiapane.  2nd year AHL player.  Led the team in points.  46 point (21 goals) in 39 games.  Played basically 4th line minutes here.

Janko.  Rookie NHL playing the toughest position.  Not exactly playing with scoring wizards.  

 

What has Gully's usage of young players taught you?  Unless you are Brouwer, you are going to play less minutes.

 

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10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

There's some reason to have some faith in the prospects.

Dube was a solid player in the WJC, and in the WHL playoffs.  He's a dedicated team player.  Backlund-esque.  

Mangiapane.  2nd year AHL player.  Led the team in points.  46 point (21 goals) in 39 games.  Played basically 4th line minutes here.

Janko.  Rookie NHL playing the toughest position.  Not exactly playing with scoring wizards.  

 

What has Gully's usage of young players taught you?  Unless you are Brouwer, you are going to play less minutes.

 

 

Dube is the one I couldn’t think of! 

 

I bet Mang’ will be traded before he plays. Maybe a mistake. 

 

I agree, but they’re still unknowns. 

 

Edited in:

 

also, I think the only one we can play Mangiapane with is Backlund to give him a credible C to play with. Gaudreau is too small. And to have them both together might be too small of a line. 

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6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I said in my original post that they’ll still be a few years behind us because their core will take time to mature, but I meant not that far. I also explained they’re probably a 3rd line behind us after this draft. I just didn’t say when. I think they still have 2 or 3 years before they start sniffing at a playoff. That’s roughly a 5 or 6 year rebuild for them. The same time some of us predicted ours would be. 

 

We aren’t even guaranteed playoffs this next coming year.i just said I think Vancouver is closer than we think.

Fair enough, they are definitely on the upswing with some of their prospects.  This next year may be difficult with the retirement of the Sedins, it'll be interesting to watch.

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2 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Fair enough, they are definitely on the upswing with some of their prospects.  This next year may be difficult with the retirement of the Sedins, it'll be interesting to watch.

 

Definitely! This draft won’t fix them right away, but it bridges the gap in the future.

 

its not as bad as you’d think considering they lost the lottery almost every year they’ve had it. 

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23 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Dube is the one I couldn’t think of! 

 

I bet Mang’ will be traded before he plays. Maybe a mistake. 

 

I agree, but they’re still unknowns. 

To be fair to GG and Mangiapane he was brought up to cover off some injury situations and was used on about 3 different lines. All were short samples of play and not really meant to be any kind of extended look. In these situations all one can do is hope to make an impression and don't screw up. With the lack of picks this year I would be inclined to keep Mangiapane as depth in the A. Dube will be there and it would be interesting to see them grow together, maybe with Foo on RW.

I thought Jankowski did well in his rookie season considering but I hope they don't make the same mistakes they made with Bennett.

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10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Definitely! This draft won’t fix them right away, but it bridges the gap in the future.

 

its not as bad as you’d think considering they lost the lottery almost every year they’ve had it. 

Are you and ccc playing Canucks cheerleaders?;)

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5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Are you and ccc playing Canucks cheerleaders?;)

 

No, we just argued about them. I see them as behind us, but not as far as we think. They have many holes but this draft can catch them up closer to us. Just saying that they’re not as far back, andCCC was adamant we are way further along. 

 

I just think their young core is a few years behind ours. They have a possible first 2 lines set for their future. With us, right now it’s all we have, hoping Bennett and Jankowski moves forward.

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4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

No, we just argued about them. I see them as behind us, but not as far as we think. They have many holes but this draft can catch them up closer to us. Just saying that they’re not as far back, andCCC was adamant we are way further along. 

 

I just think their young core is a few years behind ours. They have a possible first 2 lines set for their future. With us, right now it’s all we have, hoping Bennett and Jankowski moves forward.

DiPietro definitely looks like your(ah-ha) goalie of the future. Outside of that, still a pretty big mess there. D isn't good now, only really Juolevi as a bonafide prospect, maybe, maybe, Cedarholm.

Need more core than Horvat and Boozer, I'm just not seeing it. Like us never being ready to transition out of Iggy, Van looks the same with the Sedins.

Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't see a lot there.

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5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

DiPietro definitely looks like your(ah-ha) goalie of the future. Outside of that, still a pretty big mess there. D isn't good now, only really Juolevi as a bonafide prospect, maybe, maybe, Cedarholm.

Need more core than Horvat and Boozer, I'm just not seeing it. Like us never being ready to transition out of Iggy, Van looks the same with the Sedins.

Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't see a lot there.

 

They have Petterson as well. I think their top 2 lines are figured out, just not going to hit their stride for about 2-3 more years.

 

and it’s what I am saying is it’s not next year. 

 

My bet is they draft a D again this year.

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Just now, robrob74 said:

 

They have Petterson as well. I think their top 2 lines are figured out, just not going to hit their stride for about 2-3 more years.

 

and it’s what I am saying is it’s not next year. 

 

My bet is they draft a D again this year.

Right forgot about Petterson. They're still quite a few years out without some explosive moves.

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46 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

To be fair to GG and Mangiapane he was brought up to cover off some injury situations and was used on about 3 different lines. All were short samples of play and not really meant to be any kind of extended look. In these situations all one can do is hope to make an impression and don't screw up. With the lack of picks this year I would be inclined to keep Mangiapane as depth in the A. Dube will be there and it would be interesting to see them grow together, maybe with Foo on RW.

I thought Jankowski did well in his rookie season considering but I hope they don't make the same mistakes they made with Bennett.

 

We seem to do the same thing every time there is an injury.  Lose a top 6 player, bring up a top 6 prospect, play him 4th line minutes.  When will it end.  

From what I can gather from BP, he tends to use the replacements in the spots they were brought up for.

 

I doubt there is any worry about making mistakes with Janko the same way they did with Bennett.  He already has a full season in the AHL and 4 years in college.

 

I'm not really sure what Mangiapane has to prove in the AHL.  He's the most prolific scorer there.  Time to move him up and see what he can become.  We already have guys coming out of junior that will be in Stockton like Gawdin, Phillips, Fischer, joining guys that may still be there.  

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