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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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51 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not necessarily true.  BT could be wanting to do the Hamilton deal first.  His next move could be to move Brodie... But I hope it's Brodie for a goalie.

Which goalie?

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not necessarily true.  BT could be wanting to do the Hamilton deal first.  His next move could be to move Brodie... But I hope it's Brodie for a goalie.

I think we have to wait till the tradeline now to move Brodie. Tree isn't  going to start the season relying on a rookie dman to play on the top 4, but if Ras can climb the depth chart we could find TJ expendable by then. The other option is free agency, I haven't really paid much attention to who's out there but unless he picks up a proven guy, I believe our top 4 is set for opening night.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not necessarily true.  BT could be wanting to do the Hamilton deal first.  His next move could be to move Brodie... But I hope it's Brodie for a goalie.

 

Sure it is. What we know is they plan on moving Brodie to the top pair and that was the plan even before the Hamilton trade. We also know the Flames refused trade opportunities when moving Hamilton because a top 4 wasn't coming back.

 

It tells us the Flames think highly of Brodie and think he can return to form under Peters and with Giordano. It also tells us they were not willing to lose a D from the top 4. 

 

A trade that wows Treliving might make him change his mind (doubtful), but that isn't coming for a guy that struggled the last couple of years. They aren't getting a top 4D back for Brodie along with a top 6 forward. And it is unlikely they do a D for D swap if they like Brodie. 

 

Anything is possible of course. Maybe if there is a starting goalie they like they consider moving him. But it is very unlikely at this point. 

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3 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

Sure it is. What we know is they plan on moving Brodie to the top pair and that was the plan even before the Hamilton trade. We also know the Flames refused trade opportunities when moving Hamilton because a top 4 wasn't coming back.

 

It tells us the Flames think highly of Brodie and think he can return to form under Peters and with Giordano. It also tells us they were not willing to lose a D from the top 4. 

 

A trade that wows Treliving might make him change his mind (doubtful), but that isn't coming for a guy that struggled the last couple of years. They aren't getting a top 4D back for Brodie along with a top 6 forward. And it is unlikely they do a D for D swap if they like Brodie. 

 

Anything is possible of course. Maybe if there is a starting goalie they like they consider moving him. But it is very unlikely at this point. 

 

I know.  You're right that that's what BT is thinking but I just don't agree with it.  

 

Brodie is not top pair material and should be sheltered until the PP.  He doesn't play well against the other teams best players.  I'm just saying I would trade him.  I would've traded him before I traded Hamilton.  

 

And if we did trade Brodie, which would have been the right move, we don't get Hanifin back.  Maybe we get Hadyn Fleury + Lindholm for Brodie + Ferland + Fox.  That way, we keep one of the leagues best D pairings intact. 

 

I know some argue Gio-Brodie was even better but that was under Hartley's run and gun offence.  We are much more structured now and that holds Brodie back.  We will likely never play the same game that made Brodie so successful again.

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8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

I know some argue Gio-Brodie was even better but that was under Hartley's run and gun offence.  

 

I don't agree with everyone that you said, but this I do. People need to stop with this Gio-Brodie were this great pair idea. They were good yes, don't get me wrong but Gio-Hamilton were an elite pair. Gio-Brodie were never an elite pair. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't agree with everyone that you said, but this I do. People need to stop with this Gio-Brodie were this great pair idea. They were good yes, don't get me wrong but Gio-Hamilton were an elite pair. Gio-Brodie were never an elite pair. 

 

For comparison's sake, do you think Gio-Hamonic top pairing is better than Gio-Brodie?

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This is a rumor, but apparently at a radio event yesterday Treliving said they still want to add a depth center (Ryan continues to be likely) a top 6 forward and while they like their D core no guarantees they won't change it. 

 

Also mentioned that not only did Fox and his reps make it seem likely he wouldn't sign in Calgary, he suspects he won't sign anywhere. At this point he feels they are planning to head to UFA once he's done College. 

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Just now, The_People1 said:

 

For comparison's sake, do you think Gio-Hamonic top pairing is better than Gio-Brodie?

 

Could be worth trying (and in hindsight this should have been tried last year to see) but IMO no. We will likely disagree but I think more of Brodie then I do Hamonic. 

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14 hours ago, TrippinVdUb said:

I think we have to wait till the tradeline now to move Brodie. Tree isn't  going to start the season relying on a rookie dman to play on the top 4, but if Ras can climb the depth chart we could find TJ expendable by then. The other option is free agency, I haven't really paid much attention to who's out there but unless he picks up a proven guy, I believe our top 4 is set for opening night.

 

I get Andersson still has lots to learn but I don't like how we don't want to challenge young kids to bigger roles.  He may flop but he may actually do well.

 

Maybe Gio-Brodie is the top pair.  After that, whoever out of Hanifin-Andersson vs Kulak-Hamonic plays better that night gets to play more minutes.  So we don't have a defined second pairing. It's defending by committee.

 

Also worth noting is that BP's specialty in Carolina is working with young D.  He could be what gets Andersson to the next level.

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I don't agree with everyone that you said, but this I do. People need to stop with this Gio-Brodie were this great pair idea. They were good yes, don't get me wrong but Gio-Hamilton were an elite pair. Gio-Brodie were never an elite pair. 

 

This. 

 

Everyone is six to midnight about getting Brodano back together, and there's all this talk about how it was such an injustice that they were split in the first place. I think that there are people on the board that don't appreciate exactly how good Giordano - Hamilton was compared to other teams' top pairs. Furthermore, Hamilton would not have been tied for first in scoring if they had utilized him on the power play in the first fifty games. It's also possible that the better power play would have led to a finish higher in the standings. 

 

There's all kinds of reasons that the season went the way that it did, but thinking that Hamilton was the problem is asinine, and thinking that Giordano - Brodie is the solution is absolutely bewildering. 

 

Love. 

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Our defence was not particularly impressive last year and that is a head scratcher. I am saying that while setting aside the high expectations at the beginning of the year. Gio was the only one who played well overall. I find that rather odd. It seems to me that playing defence is a pretty simple, not easy, assignment. We still failed to take players out of the play in our zone, the first pass out of our zone was often weak and happened too slowly, and we were not exactly a wall while in the offensive zone. My only explanation is that GG pushed them beyond boundaries to play a different system. Regardless, I don't think that we did much at the elite level defensively speaking.

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I know it's been said, but it seems worth mentioning again.  The only logical reason to trade Hamilton ahead of Brodie was for dressing room/culture reasons.  Just look at the comments Treliving has made around the trade.  When asked about trading Hamilton and the rumors, he basically said 'we don't comment on outgoing players.'  When asked about Ferland, his response was to the effect that 'it's always hard to trade guys like that, who give you everything they can and are big parts of the team, but sometimes you have to give something to get something.'  I'm paraphrasing of course, but that was the gist.  

 

We're free to disagree with the decision, but I strongly believe the team culture was the primary reason for trading Hamilton.

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5 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

This. 

 

Everyone is six to midnight about getting Brodano back together, and there's all this talk about how it was such an injustice that they were split in the first place. I think that there are people on the board that don't appreciate exactly how good Giordano - Hamilton was compared to other teams' top pairs. Furthermore, Hamilton would not have been tied for first in scoring if they had utilized him on the power play in the first fifty games. It's also possible that the better power play would have led to a finish higher in the standings. 

 

There's all kinds of reasons that the season went the way that it did, but thinking that Hamilton was the problem is asinine, and thinking that Giordano - Brodie is the solution is absolutely bewildering. 

 

Love. 

I am not sure if people are saying that Brodie is the solution. I think that they are saying he is compatible with Gio thus making the Hamilton trade more palatable. I suspect that most of us are a little concerned about losing Hamilton's points. In the end, our defence did not perform well last year and a shake up had to take place. Treliving has done that. It might have been better to trade Brodie, but I suspect that was just not in the cards during discussions.

 

Having said that, I was not a JBo or a Hamilton fan. Defencemen have to be gritty IMO. We got rid of Russell for a reason.

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9 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I know it's been said, but it seems worth mentioning again.  The only logical reason to trade Hamilton ahead of Brodie was for dressing room/culture reasons.  Just look at the comments Treliving has made around the trade.  When asked about trading Hamilton and the rumors, he basically said 'we don't comment on outgoing players.'  When asked about Ferland, his response was to the effect that 'it's always hard to trade guys like that, who give you everything they can and are big parts of the team, but sometimes you have to give something to get something.'  I'm paraphrasing of course, but that was the gist.  

 

We're free to disagree with the decision, but I strongly believe the team culture was the primary reason for trading Hamilton.

 

Price/return would be a huge factor too. Flames want to and need to upgrade and you have to give to get. Brodie was not going to return the type of assets Hamilton did. No dbout in my mind if you offered Brodie to the Canes Lindholm, nor Hanifin would have been in the counter offer/discussions. 

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16 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I know it's been said, but it seems worth mentioning again.  The only logical reason to trade Hamilton ahead of Brodie was for dressing room/culture reasons.  Just look at the comments Treliving has made around the trade.  When asked about trading Hamilton and the rumors, he basically said 'we don't comment on outgoing players.'  When asked about Ferland, his response was to the effect that 'it's always hard to trade guys like that, who give you everything they can and are big parts of the team, but sometimes you have to give something to get something.'  I'm paraphrasing of course, but that was the gist.  

 

We're free to disagree with the decision, but I strongly believe the team culture was the primary reason for trading Hamilton.

 

That's fair.  And BT did well to get back a top4 D for Hamilton.  But he needs to further realize that Brodie isn't that great at defending and cannot be trusted in a top pair role.  

 

The whole year with Brodie-Hamonic, opposing teams dumped pucks into Brodie's corner and almost always won the puck back.  They cleverly avoided a dump it into Hamonic's corner.

 

With Gio-Hamonic pairing, the opposing team has to pick their poison.  Just like they did with Gio-Hamilton.  

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26 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

Furthermore, Hamilton would not have been tied for first in scoring if they had utilized him on the power play in the first fifty games. It's also possible that the better power play would have led to a finish higher in the standings. 

 

This is potentially true, but also worth nothing that while he had initial success, the PP was terrible with Hamilton on it too. He provided an option right away but eventually that fizzled and towrads the end of the season Hamilton did not have an impact on the PP. 

 

That's not blaming Hamilton but I actually don't think the PP is where the Flames will miss him at all, they'll miss him 5 on 5 where it is my opinion he was a top pairing dman. It's a huge hole to fill and i'm of the opinion they don't have the skills internally to do it. Going to need to be by committee and that's sometimes a worrisome idea. 

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30 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Our defence was not particularly impressive last year and that is a head scratcher. I am saying that while setting aside the high expectations at the beginning of the year. Gio was the only one who played well overall. I find that rather odd. It seems to me that playing defence is a pretty simple, not easy, assignment. We still failed to take players out of the play in our zone, the first pass out of our zone was often weak and happened too slowly, and we were not exactly a wall while in the offensive zone. My only explanation is that GG pushed them beyond boundaries to play a different system. Regardless, I don't think that we did much at the elite level defensively speaking.

 

Our D was very bad last season.

 

So, I don't agree with this idea that one of Hamilton or Brodie has to go.  I feel both should go.  Not give them away but the plan needs to be to updgrade our defending.  And that almost certainly begins with trading Brodie away.  

 

There might be a team out there with stacked stay-at-home D willing to move one for Brodie to get some mobility.  Could we do something like Brodie for Zach Bogosian straight up with Buffalo?

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I think its worth remember that there was not a lot of concerns about the ability of the Flames D 2 years ago, when by almost all metrics they were a very good defending team with arguably less talent than last year's. So why was that team able to defend better with similar skill sets to last year's team, but last year's team struggled more even with "upgrades"?

 

Peeps i'll give you credit you've never been a Brodie fan so I can understand where you are coming from. however, for me i'm of the opinion this is not a skill set thing it's an execution thing because 2 seasons ago this concerns were not there. 

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37 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think its worth remember that there was not a lot of concerns about the ability of the Flames D 2 years ago, when by almost all metrics they were a very good defending team with arguably less talent than last year's. So why was that team able to defend better with similar skill sets to last year's team, but last year's team struggled more even with "upgrades"?

 

Peeps i'll give you credit you've never been a Brodie fan so I can understand where you are coming from. however, for me i'm of the opinion this is not a skill set thing it's an execution thing because 2 seasons ago this concerns were not there. 

 

I think Brodie's game started to slide 2 seasons ago when GG took over.  Under Hartley's system, Brodie can hammer the puck off the glass and out and JG would be waiting at the other team's blueline. 

 

But now we want to win possession and win control.  Brodie struggles with that.  Let's get players who excel under this system. 

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32 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Our D was very bad last season.

 

So, I don't agree with this idea that one of Hamilton or Brodie has to go.  I feel both should go.  Not give them away but the plan needs to be to updgrade our defending.  And that almost certainly begins with trading Brodie away.  

 

There might be a team out there with stacked stay-at-home D willing to move one for Brodie to get some mobility.  Could we do something like Brodie for Zach Bogosian straight up with Buffalo?

Buffalo would jump on that so fast your head would swim. The last time Bogo played close to a full season was in Atlanta in his 2nd year.

He's a good D when not injured but over 10 seasons he's played 552 of a possible 820 games meaning he's missed about 1/3 of a season. & the injuries seem to be coming more frequently every year. With him on the roster it's a good idea to carry a backup D as you know you can't count on having him in the lineup for a good part of the season. Last season he mamaged only 17 games.

Brodie is usually healthy & carries a cap hit about 0.5 less without counting the Bogo backup.

I'll keep Brodie thank you. :)

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2 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Buffalo would jump on that so fast your head would swim. The last time Bogo played close to a full season was in Atlanta in his 2nd year.

He's a good D when not injured but over 10 seasons he's played 552 of a possible 820 games meaning he's missed about 1/3 of a season. & the injuries seem to be coming more frequently every year. With him on the roster it's a good idea to carry a backup D as you know you can't count on having him in the lineup for a good part of the season. Last season he mamaged only 17 games.

Brodie is usually healthy & carries a cap hit about 0.5 less without counting the Bogo backup.

I'll keep Brodie thank you. :)

 

Touche.

 

How about Brodie for David Savard straight up?

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1 hour ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

This. 

 

Everyone is six to midnight about getting Brodano back together, and there's all this talk about how it was such an injustice that they were split in the first place. I think that there are people on the board that don't appreciate exactly how good Giordano - Hamilton was compared to other teams' top pairs. Furthermore, Hamilton would not have been tied for first in scoring if they had utilized him on the power play in the first fifty games. It's also possible that the better power play would have led to a finish higher in the standings. 

 

There's all kinds of reasons that the season went the way that it did, but thinking that Hamilton was the problem is asinine, and thinking that Giordano - Brodie is the solution is absolutely bewildering. 

 

Love. 

You don't remember the tandem?

 

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19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think Brodie's game started to slide 2 seasons ago when GG took over.  Under Hartley's system, Brodie can hammer the puck off the glass and out and JG would be waiting at the other team's blueline. 

 

But now we want to win possession and win control.  Brodie struggles with that.  Let's get players who excel under this system. 

 

I believe Brodie can. I'd rather get him excelling rather than sell low and acquire what is more than likely going to be a lesser asset. 

 

but I believe in Brodie, as corny as that sounds, so i'll likely always differ here.

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3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't agree with everyone that you said, but this I do. People need to stop with this Gio-Brodie were this great pair idea. They were good yes, don't get me wrong but Gio-Hamilton were an elite pair. Gio-Brodie were never an elite pair. 

 

 

 

It remains to be seen if Gio-Brodie can be as good as Gio-Hammy, under a possession system that BP wants to use.  We don't have any comparable usage of Gio-Brodie to compare to Gio-Hammy.  It may not work out, but I'm not willing to say at this point the two can't be as good.

When was the last time it was used for more than a game or two?

 

Gio-Hammy "developed" into an elite pair.  They didn't become that way overnight.

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21 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I believe Brodie can. I'd rather get him excelling rather than sell low and acquire what is more than likely going to be a lesser asset. 

 

but I believe in Brodie, as corny as that sounds, so i'll likely always differ here.

 

He remains a top 3 3-on-3 OT Dman in the NHL.  And we will be in those situations 15 times a year.  

 

But still, Gio, Hanifin, and Andersson can also provide offence in OT.  Not as good though.

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