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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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With both Drouin & Rychel that trade demand while still on their EL is a huge red flag. It's like they think they figure they can overrule the coach & GM. Not real conductive to a good locker room atmosphere.

If the Flames trade for 1 or both & he's just not ready for the minutes/role his ego tells him he deserves even if he doesn't merit them do we have a public trade demand if we try to send him down or don't play him those undeserved minutes?

It's not worth it. You can't have unproven youth disrupting the locker room based on their me first attitude.

 

IMO both TB & Columbus should stick to their guns & if the kid refuses to report to the AHL suspend him. That stops the meter on the EL & places both RFA & UFA further down the road.

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Because I don't view Colborne as a player no longer in the plans and I don't see Rychel ready to step in today and play a full time role in the NHL at the same level of Colborne. If the Flames had good forward depth and could easily replace Colborne internally if Rychel doesn't pan out by all means, but they don't. 

 

I don't beleive the Flames have enough forward depth to be moving out NHL bodies and not getting NHL bodies in return. If its a UFA like Hudler/Jones etc or a spare part like Granlund/Jooris then sure but an RFA like Colborne who provides cheap and usefull depth I don't believe the Flames are at a point where they can afford to be moving that out for non NHL players. Depth isn't there right now. Remember, Rychel is only a prospect, he is NOT an NHler. 

 

Sometimes you have to overpay yes but for the right asset. I don't believe Rychel to be that asset. 

I guess we differ on Colborne and a permanent use for him on our team. I like Colborne but I see him best as a C 3rd or 4th line which are blocked if keeping Backlund and Stajan. I would try the move if it gets us a big player that actually plays big.

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With both Drouin & Rychel that trade demand while still on their EL is a huge red flag. It's like they think they figure they can overrule the coach & GM. Not real conductive to a good locker room atmosphere.

If the Flames trade for 1 or both & he's just not ready for the minutes/role his ego tells him he deserves even if he doesn't merit them do we have a public trade demand if we try to send him down or don't play him those undeserved minutes?

It's not worth it. You can't have unproven youth disrupting the locker room based on their me first attitude.

 

IMO both TB & Columbus should stick to their guns & if the kid refuses to report to the AHL suspend him. That stops the meter on the EL & places both RFA & UFA further down the road.

A lot depends on what is causing the request but at the end of the day your scouts or talent assessors have to advise the GM if the player is worth it. I'm sure every GM wants to avoid the over demanding parent involvement.

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Has he?

 

217-155-23 is the Lightning record udner his watch, a ECF apperance, Stanley Cup final appearance and has made playoffs 3 of the 5 year he's been a GM and are a playoff contending team this year. Tampa is also pretty deep on the wing with guys like Kucherov, Johnson, Stamkos, Callahan, Killhorn etc and from what i've read from Tampa fans its not like Drouin is outplaying these guys and being sat unfairly.  Could be getting more opporutnites yes, but I don't get the sense there is this huge outcry from Tampa fans about how Drouin is being used. 

 

He lost St Louis to bad feelings, hasn't been able to sign Stamkos, and he has his top prospect demanding a trade.  I don't follow the team intimately.  But those are three pretty big reasons to be concerned.  

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With both Drouin & Rychel that trade demand while still on their EL is a huge red flag. It's like they think they figure they can overrule the coach & GM. Not real conductive to a good locker room atmosphere.

If the Flames trade for 1 or both & he's just not ready for the minutes/role his ego tells him he deserves even if he doesn't merit them do we have a public trade demand if we try to send him down or don't play him those undeserved minutes?

It's not worth it. You can't have unproven youth disrupting the locker room based on their me first attitude.

 

IMO both TB & Columbus should stick to their guns & if the kid refuses to report to the AHL suspend him. That stops the meter on the EL & places both RFA & UFA further down the road.

 

I agree with the principle of what you are saying.  The kids are supposed to earn the right to choose their team.  

 

But I don't agree with the picture you are painting of egotistical kids disrupting the locker room.  In reality these are kids listening to their agents and advisers who are in turn looking out for their clients future.  These kids have worked their entire lives to get to this point.  If an agent feels a trade is in the best interest of the players future then I don't begrudge them using the tools at their disposal.  

Besides, rarely do these kids cause issues to the teams that pick them up.  Turris has been good in Ottawa.  Hayes has been good in Chicago.  Hamilton has been good in Calgary.  All different situations, but all situations where the player wanted out of the team that drafted them.  

 

I pointed out Rychel because his dad is the agent.  That is a big flag for me when the guy requesting the trade is a middle of the road prospect with very little justification for doing so.  

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I agree with the principle of what you are saying.  The kids are supposed to earn the right to choose their team.  

 

But I don't agree with the picture you are painting of egotistical kids disrupting the locker room.  In reality these are kids listening to their agents and advisers who are in turn looking out for their clients future.  These kids have worked their entire lives to get to this point.  If an agent feels a trade is in the best interest of the players future then I don't begrudge them using the tools at their disposal.  

Besides, rarely do these kids cause issues to the teams that pick them up.  Turris has been good in Ottawa.  Hayes has been good in Chicago.  Hamilton has been good in Calgary.  All different situations, but all situations where the player wanted out of the team that drafted them.  

 

I pointed out Rychel because his dad is the agent.  That is a big flag for me when the guy requesting the trade is a middle of the road prospect with very little justification for doing so.  

IT makes sense for drouin to want out of TB, as someone else pointed out the wings are full up with talent and I wouldnt say its easy to just push a veteran out of his spot especially if they have some cap hit. Also on that note, how many times do you hear about kids having attitude problems only for them to traded and never have that problem again? 

 

I can see TB just sitting on drouin even though he could be ready because they have an internal budget and they dont want to move everyone around to let drouin play top 6 minutes.

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I agree with the principle of what you are saying. The kids are supposed to earn the right to choose their team.

But I don't agree with the picture you are painting of egotistical kids disrupting the locker room. In reality these are kids listening to their agents and advisers who are in turn looking out for their clients future. These kids have worked their entire lives to get to this point. If an agent feels a trade is in the best interest of the players future then I don't begrudge them using the tools at their disposal.

Besides, rarely do these kids cause issues to the teams that pick them up. Turris has been good in Ottawa. Hayes has been good in Chicago. Hamilton has been good in Calgary. All different situations, but all situations where the player wanted out of the team that drafted them.

I pointed out Rychel because his dad is the agent. That is a big flag for me when the guy requesting the trade is a middle of the road prospect with very little justification for doing so.

I agree, I think it is unfair to pass judgement on these players for doing what they think is best for their careers. If I go to a job and there isn't room or a path for me to advance in the company, I start looking for another job.

Just a side note Kerby Rychel's dad, Warren Rychel is the VP and GM of the Windsor Spitfires, I believe Kerby's agent is Ken Overhardt (might be Kurt).

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I haven't followed Kerby Rychel a lot but it seems his situation is comparable to Sven Baertschi where both don't cut it as full time NHLers and then complain like they deserve NHL ice time.  The Blue Jackets have done well to graduate their prospects when the time is right.  So, I believe if we trade for Rychel, then we will find out he's not NHL material yet and needs some AHL seasoning. 

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I haven't followed Kerby Rychel a lot but it seems his situation is comparable to Sven Baertschi where both don't cut it as full time NHLers and then complain like they deserve NHL ice time.  The Blue Jackets have done well to graduate their prospects when the time is right.  So, I believe if we trade for Rychel, then we will find out he's not NHL material yet and needs some AHL seasoning. 

I dont know about that, two different players. But the nucks must like what they see considering hes played 31 games for them. If he does happen to need some more seasoning hes only 21, and must be getting close.

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Because I don't view Colborne as a player no longer in the plans and I don't see Rychel ready to step in today and play a full time role in the NHL at the same level of Colborne. If the Flames had good forward depth and could easily replace Colborne internally if Rychel doesn't pan out by all means, but they don't. 

 

I don't beleive the Flames have enough forward depth to be moving out NHL bodies and not getting NHL bodies in return. If its a UFA like Hudler/Jones etc or a spare part like Granlund/Jooris then sure but an RFA like Colborne who provides cheap and usefull depth I don't believe the Flames are at a point where they can afford to be moving that out for non NHL players. Depth isn't there right now. Remember, Rychel is only a prospect, he is NOT an NHler. 

 

Sometimes you have to overpay yes but for the right asset. I don't believe Rychel to be that asset. 

cross where do you see Colborne's best use on this team ?

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I'm not a fan of kids with less than 100 games experience demanding trades either, but immaturity isn't always permanent.

I know this may not be popular here but I would look at:

To CBJ: Wideman (2M retained), Wotherspoon and a 4th

To CGY: Rychel and Rene Bourque

CBJ gets a PP specialist at a good price for the next two years and a D prospect. CGY gets Rychel and opens up 3.3M next year when Bourques salary runs out.

Also who knows maybe Bourque can go on a bit of a hotstreak like he did with MTL a couple years ago.

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Just a side note Kerby Rychel's dad, Warren Rychel is the VP and GM of the Windsor Spitfires, I believe Kerby's agent is Ken Overhardt (might be Kurt).

 

Thanks for that.  I misread the article.  It says Warren Rychel, and his agent ....  I misread that as Warren Rychel, his agent.  Still, if it is true that daddy talked to management I have a concern with that.  

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With Boychuk out an estimated 4-6 weeks, it would seem less unlikely that the NYI would consider moving Harmonic.  Come to think of it, they could probably use some help on D……………Hmmm.

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I'm not a fan of kids with less than 100 games experience demanding trades either, but immaturity isn't always permanent.

I know this may not be popular here but I would look at:

To CBJ: Wideman (2M retained), Wotherspoon and a 4th

To CGY: Rychel and Rene Bourque

CBJ gets a PP specialist at a good price for the next two years and a D prospect. CGY gets Rychel and opens up 3.3M next year when Bourques salary runs out.

Also who knows maybe Bourque can go on a bit of a hotstreak like he did with MTL a couple years ago.

No to Bourque, I think he is pretty much done. How do you see Rychel ? I see him as a 3rd line LW just starting out. I see Granlund as a good swap for him.

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I dont know about that, two different players. But the nucks must like what they see considering hes played 31 games for them. If he does happen to need some more seasoning hes only 21, and must be getting close.

 

The Nucks don't really have anyone else to play. They need Baertschi to play. 

I bet the Lightening are kicking themselves that they didn't draft Jones instead. Imagine what their blueline would have looked like with Jones and Hedman?

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He lost St Louis to bad feelings, hasn't been able to sign Stamkos, and he has his top prospect demanding a trade.  I don't follow the team intimately.  But those are three pretty big reasons to be concerned.  

Huge reasons to be concerned.  With St Louis he held his ground and got excellent return, far more than I figured.  Once Stamkos walks for nothing perhaps he'll loosen up and move Drouin for something.  

 

I'm sure being an ex-player as the GM might be a difficult thing as he will have a unique perspective and thereby able to make insightful comments perhaps not appreciated by his stars?  No idea really but SOMETHING is clearly wrong there and they need to make some decisions as they have lots of decisions to make soon.

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He lost St Louis to bad feelings, hasn't been able to sign Stamkos, and he has his top prospect demanding a trade.  I don't follow the team intimately.  But those are three pretty big reasons to be concerned.  

 

 

Actually with St Louis I read that he made the trade request earlier on due to family reasons and wanting to be in the New York area and Yzerman actually convinced him to stay longer but then the olympic thing sealed it. Either way, he turned Martin St Louis into a wicked return so I almost don't care that the relationships broke down becuase IMO he actually made his team better by dealing them.

 

Let's see what happens with Stamkos before we jump on Yzerman. At the end of the day, this is a guy that has built a perenial playoff contender with some great drafting, schrewd trades and some solid FA signings. If I were a Tampa fan i'd be pretty impressed with Yzerman. 

cross where do you see Colborne's best use on this team ?

 

Solid top 9 forward, can do spot duty in the top 6 here and there and can be used strategically for center faceoff situations as either the primary guy or a backup. From time to time I would use him on the PP for screen/tips whichi s something he is fairly good at. 

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Huge reasons to be concerned.  With St Louis he held his ground and got excellent return, far more than I figured.  Once Stamkos walks for nothing perhaps he'll loosen up and move Drouin for something.  

 

I'm sure being an ex-player as the GM might be a difficult thing as he will have a unique perspective and thereby able to make insightful comments perhaps not appreciated by his stars?  No idea really but SOMETHING is clearly wrong there and they need to make some decisions as they have lots of decisions to make soon.

Yzerman is a cool customer and I don't see any panic on his part for either Stamkos or Drouin. I wouldn't be surprised to see him trade Stamkos at the TDL if Stamkos has told him he won't resign there. Should he trade Stamkos I think he would want Drouin to stay around so I don't see him accommodating him with a trade.

Actually with St Louis I read that he made the trade request earlier on due to family reasons and wanting to be in the New York area and Yzerman actually convinced him to stay longer but then the olympic thing sealed it. Either way, he turned Martin St Louis into a wicked return so I almost don't care that the relationships broke down becuase IMO he actually made his team better by dealing them.

 

Let's see what happens with Stamkos before we jump on Yzerman. At the end of the day, this is a guy that has built a perenial playoff contender with some great drafting, schrewd trades and some solid FA signings. If I were a Tampa fan i'd be pretty impressed with Yzerman. 

 

Solid top 9 forward, can do spot duty in the top 6 here and there and can be used strategically for center faceoff situations as either the primary guy or a backup. From time to time I would use him on the PP for screen/tips whichi s something he is fairly good at. 

I agree, he seems to be a 5th wheel on this team.

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The Nucks don't really have anyone else to play. They need Baertschi to play. 

I bet the Lightening are kicking themselves that they didn't draft Jones instead. Imagine what their blueline would have looked like with Jones and Hedman?

 

Looks like Ristolainen is turning out to be the best Dman in the draft.  But ya, it was a surprise when they passed on Jones.  Heck, imagine them with Monahan instead.

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I'm sure being an ex-player as the GM might be a difficult thing as he will have a unique perspective and thereby able to make insightful comments perhaps not appreciated by his stars?  No idea really but SOMETHING is clearly wrong there and they need to make some decisions as they have lots of decisions to make soon.

 

The irony is, Yzerman never played in the AHL himself and he went straight to the NHL.

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Probably worth pointing out, this trade request was made in November and then made public when they sent him down. Whatever issue Drouin has with Tampa extends outside the recent assignment to the AHL. 

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Do we think Drouin even fits the Flames needs?  Or do we want him just because?

 

He's got blazing speed on the LW but struggles with size, finish, board play, and is a bit of a puck hog who doesn't like to pass.  Defensively, he's only average.  Wait, I just described Mason Raymond. 

 

Sure, Drouin can only get better from here on but it's going to cost so much to get him.  I have pretty much given up on Ferland and Klimchuk as future top 6 LWs but I have a good feeling about Mangiapane.  Plus, Frolik and Colborne can factor into the LW slot when it comes to future planning.  Bennett can also emerge on the LW full time if that's where he finds most success.

 

If Drouin was a natural RW, then that's a different story but he's not.

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Do we think Drouin even fits the Flames needs?  Or do we want him just because?

 

He's got blazing speed on the LW but struggles with size, finish, board play, and is a bit of a puck hog who doesn't like to pass.  Defensively, he's only average.  Wait, I just described Mason Raymond. 

 

Sure, Drouin can only get better from here on but it's going to cost so much to get him.  I have pretty much given up on Ferland and Klimchuk as future top 6 LWs but I have a good feeling about Mangiapane.  Plus, Frolik and Colborne can factor into the LW slot when it comes to future planning.  Bennett can also emerge on the LW full time if that's where he finds most success.

 

If Drouin was a natural RW, then that's a different story but he's not.

WOW you have soured on Ferland and Klimchuk already, why is that ? Ferland has played more so out of position since getting back but plays well when at LW. Klimchuk hasn't even arrived yet. Both Klimchuck and Mangiapane are smaller players and remain to be seen just how if at all they fit in the NHL.

I like Ferland and if given the chance at some point to play 2nd line LW minutes we might witness his true potential. I would think Bennett shifts back to being C before this year is over. Drouin isn't needed here. Rychel as a flex 3rd or 2nd line LW I like this type of player plus he has some size to him.

 

We do need to focus on a top 6 RW especially if trading Hudler is the plan.

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Do we think Drouin even fits the Flames needs?  Or do we want him just because?

 

He's got blazing speed on the LW but struggles with size, finish, board play, and is a bit of a puck hog who doesn't like to pass.  Defensively, he's only average.  Wait, I just described Mason Raymond. 

 

Sure, Drouin can only get better from here on but it's going to cost so much to get him.  I have pretty much given up on Ferland and Klimchuk as future top 6 LWs but I have a good feeling about Mangiapane.  Plus, Frolik and Colborne can factor into the LW slot when it comes to future planning.  Bennett can also emerge on the LW full time if that's where he finds most success.

 

If Drouin was a natural RW, then that's a different story but he's not.

Id rather have ferland then colborne at LW in my top 6 of the future. I really cant believe you are comparing drouin and raymond, drouin has 4 more points in 4 less games, hes also 10 years younger. Klimchuk is a 20 year old who just started to come into his own in the pros,and ferland has shown growth since the playoffs in my opinion. Ferland can also play the RW, id have no problem adding drouin to our top 6 at the right price. ID rather have rychel over drouin, but that being said I wouldnt say no to him.

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Do we think Drouin even fits the Flames needs?  Or do we want him just because?

 

He's got blazing speed on the LW but struggles with size, finish, board play, and is a bit of a puck hog who doesn't like to pass.  Defensively, he's only average.  Wait, I just described Mason Raymond. 

 

Sure, Drouin can only get better from here on but it's going to cost so much to get him.  I have pretty much given up on Ferland and Klimchuk as future top 6 LWs but I have a good feeling about Mangiapane.  Plus, Frolik and Colborne can factor into the LW slot when it comes to future planning.  Bennett can also emerge on the LW full time if that's where he finds most success.

 

If Drouin was a natural RW, then that's a different story but he's not.

 

While I do understand and don't disgree with where you going I think you shoudl always be intested in someone with Drouin's talent level regardless of where your needs are.  LIke you say, players can get moved around and Drouin could easily be moved to the RW side too if need be. However, you are right if the cost is really high than I would agree it doesn't make sense but if the cost is reasonble its not everyday you can acquire a top 3 pick. Personally I just don't think the cost is going to win up being that outrageous as it never really is when you have a player asking out. GMs always say "i'm not going to move him unless it benefits the team" but thats not usually the reality of what ends up happening. 

 

I'm also not sure its fair to say Ferland can't be at op 6 forward. I actually think for the last week or Ferland has shown he that he coudl still be that. let's not forget this is essentially his rookie season in the NHL. 

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