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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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37 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This is well said and matches almost exactly how I feel.

 

Complacency can work in good times as much as bad. I personally don't think a team should every stop looking to be better irregardless of how they may be playing at the time and the truly great teams don't. 

Yeah sorry but I don't think you lose sight of what you have been building towards with the people you have in place, especially when it appears to be working. I would also say our group has the talent, what they lack in experience they have to gain even if it means they fall short of a SC this year.

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25 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So do we ever get to celebrate a good team?

 

Last night was the first time in some time that the coach was actually happy.

Got to reduce minutes to the top 6 (imagine the Oilers if they ever did that).

Got to roll 4 lines and 3 pairings with similar minutes.

 

I think what we fans tend to remember is falling out of the playoff or an early exit because of injuries.

Smith injury and bad post-injury games.

Lack of Gio in 2014/15.

Regher injury.

Roberts injury.

 

I think we have a team that is clicking better than any team in over a decade.  Obviously, I would not suggest trading anyone from the top 6F or top 4D.  A little hesitant trading anyone that isn't a surplus right now.  Kylington isn't a surplus.  Mangiapane isn't a surplus.  Only consider trading for youngish players or those with great character and scoring prowess without losing necessary players or pieces.  For instance, you don't trade Frolik unless you get back the equivalent defensive player with better scoring.  Don't trade Bennett unless you get a similar package that can score.  Czarnik and Hathaway are complimentary players, but they aren't what teams are asking for.  Saying that, Cogliano went for Devin Shore.    

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59 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I think as a GM you have to do whatever you can to make your team better. In saying that you have to weigh what adding another player to the lineup will bring you vs what it will do to the locker room.

 

For me I see 2 to 3 holes in the current lineup. I would like to see an upgrade at 2nd line center or that the very least an upgrade at 3rd line center. I like Jankowski but he isn't good enough to produce like a 2nd line center nor is he good enough defensively to be a shut down center. I would like to see someone who can distribute the puck to a guy like Neal.

 

I also wouldn't mind seeing an upgrade at 2nd line RW, Frolik has been on a tear lately but his offensive output is very streaky, he is a great shut down line winger, but I am not sure he is a guy I would count on for offense.

 

I would also like to see an upgrade on the left side of the 3rd pairing. Kylington and Valimaki have been fine in sheltered minutes, but I am not sure I would trust them with more minutes at this point in their careers.

 

If Smith can play like he did last night going forward, that would take away another of my concerns, but if he struggles going into the trade deadline I would look for an upgrade at backup as well.

 

I am not saying we need to go trade for all those pieces, I am saying that those are areas where we could improve, you just need to weigh the cost. 

 

I will also add that just because we are rolling now doesn't mean we will continue on this stretch nor does it mean playoff success, sometimes staying with the status quo is just as bad as making a bunch of trades.

I would say the good sign is we are winning while not playing all that great right now.

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20 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Yeah sorry but I don't think you lose sight of what you have been building towards with the people you have in place, especially when it appears to be working. I would also say our group has the talent, what they lack in experience they have to gain even if it means they fall short of a SC this year.

 

Clearly a difference of opinion here but for me i've seen enough of these players to know there are holes in their bottom 6 that are not likely to be fixed internally. I'll respectfully disagree that all the talent is there

 

Astounds me this is such a black and white issue for some people but again to each their own. Good or even great teams make minor TDL moves all the time that pay off (Washington picking up both Kempny and DSP or Penguins picking up Schultz). Wonder how their players feel abuot a GM not beliving in his group. 

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7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Clearly a difference of opinion here but for me i've seen enough of these players to know there are holes in their bottom 6 that are not likely to be fixed internally. I'll respectfully disagree that all the talent is there

 

Astounds me this is such a black and white issue for some people but again to each their own. Good or even great teams make minor TDL moves all the time that pay off (Washington picking up both Kempny and DSP or Penguins picking up Schultz). Wonder how their players feel abuot a GM not beliving in his group. 

Hey I get that you don't think Jankowski can do the job necessary to win a SC or if we don't have a feeder for Neal he is useless to us. What I'm saying is I wouldn't be hasty in addressing that until you see a line such as Bennett, Jankowski and Neal together for more than an small sample so far. You point to WAS for one fix what about all the other teams that go get supposed fixes and fall totally on their faces. You just continue to be "astounded" cross that the rest of us are so stupid not to agree with your black and white scenarios.

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5 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Hey I get that you don't think Jankowski can do the job necessary to win a SC or if we don't have a feeder for Neal he is useless to us. What I'm saying is I wouldn't be hasty in addressing that until you see a line such as Bennett, Jankowski and Neal together for more than an small sample so far. You point to WAS for one fix what about all the other teams that go get supposed fixes and fall totally on their faces. You just continue to be "astounded" cross that the rest of us are so stupid not to agree with your black and white scenarios.

 

Has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence nor it is personally on any level so please don't make it such Mac

 

 

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I think one question that is linked to the trade deadline is whether we are keeping our first or not? If we’re all in and going to use our first round draft pick we have more ammo to load up with a more impactful player. But if we want that pick after not having one for the past two years, that limits our moves. I feel like we’re drafting somewhere between 27-31 with the team as is, so I’m inclined to use it in trade. But I’m not convinced yet.

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47 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Hey I get that you don't think Jankowski can do the job necessary to win a SC or if we don't have a feeder for Neal he is useless to us. What I'm saying is I wouldn't be hasty in addressing that until you see a line such as Bennett, Jankowski and Neal together for more than an small sample so far. You point to WAS for one fix what about all the other teams that go get supposed fixes and fall totally on their faces. You just continue to be "astounded" cross that the rest of us are so stupid not to agree with your black and white scenarios.

I think all he's saying is you'd be hard pressed to show a Cup winner in the modern Era that did not pick up at least depth for that run..and in nearly all cases those players did come in handy 

To me , Depth means " you're eating popcorn until such time as we need you"

 

now I will say this , Starting Goaltenders and top end Dmen typically always fail and backfire 

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6 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

I think one question that is linked to the trade deadline is whether we are keeping our first or not? If we’re all in and going to use our first round draft pick we have more ammo to load up with a more impactful player. But if we want that pick after not having one for the past two years, that limits our moves. I feel like we’re drafting somewhere between 27-31 with the team as is, so I’m inclined to use it in trade. But I’m not convinced yet.

 

It's a tough call for me.

A first could be as bad as 31st overall.

If you could get a 2nd back by adding something to it, then it would not be as bad a payment.

 

Depending on the team, the 1st could be in 2020.  A lot of TDL trades include later year drafts.

No, I wouldn't trade a 2019 1st for Silfverberg, but that's just me.  It would have to be a protected 2020 1st at best.

Ideally, you would have kept the 1st and had the 2nd for dealing.

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Our bottom 6 forwards are amongst the worst in the league in goal differential. When it comes down to it I think teams like the Jets and the Preds are just deeper than us and in the playoffs depth throughout the lineup matters. We are basically 1.5 line team, now those guys are elite, in the playoffs teams will feast on our bottom 6 as it stands today.

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19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's a tough call for me.

A first could be as bad as 31st overall.

If you could get a 2nd back by adding something to it, then it would not be as bad a payment.

 

Depending on the team, the 1st could be in 2020.  A lot of TDL trades include later year drafts.

No, I wouldn't trade a 2019 1st for Silfverberg, but that's just me.  It would have to be a protected 2020 1st at best.

Ideally, you would have kept the 1st and had the 2nd for dealing.

The only person that I have be considering is Brett Leason who should be in that range (and no I’m not bandwagoning, I have been keeping an eye on him). He may go higher up based on his standout year, but he could also fall to the 2nd round. He fits somewhat of what we need, big RHS right wing who plays a skill game (his play reminds of me of a bigger lindholm). I still have questions if he can translate to the NHL, but he has put his head down and out in the work which are positives for me. All of the other draft picks in that range seem to be USDP and are all headed into their first year of NCAA, guys like John Beecher, Drew Helleson, Trevor Zegras, but they’re all 4 year projects which is not what we need.

Thus my dilemma, keep the pick and hope the kid you want is there for you, or gamble it for the now. I think we could put a good package together with our first in a TDL deal with Columbus for a pretty impactful player.

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39 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's a tough call for me.

A first could be as bad as 31st overall.

If you could get a 2nd back by adding something to it, then it would not be as bad a payment.

 

Depending on the team, the 1st could be in 2020.  A lot of TDL trades include later year drafts.

No, I wouldn't trade a 2019 1st for Silfverberg, but that's just me.  It would have to be a protected 2020 1st at best.

Ideally, you would have kept the 1st and had the 2nd for dealing.

That's what it comes down to for me as well.. the 1st should be definitely in play , but for the right deal.  What that deal is , I have no clue at this time , but its not in the realm of untouchable for me , even for the right rental. 

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This is most likely a once in a generation season. The cup winning team of 89 was the last time this team has been this dominant.

 

I can live with giving up a 1st this year, as there are no guarantees this team with this core finds themselves battling for a conference lead again. Even for arguments sake if they are leading the division and conference next year, they will have even less space to work with as Tkachuk will be off the ELC.

 

 

If Frolik remains playing well then there is no need for a 2nd line RW IMO. I would look for a C. Jankowski has been fine this year a team like NSH can throw Johansen/Turris/Bonino at you and either line I think would be all over the Jankowski as is. I'm not saying you need to move Jankowski, you could always move him to 4th line LW. This move would most likely be a pure rental and next season Janko can be back to his regular C position

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Clearly a difference of opinion here but for me i've seen enough of these players to know there are holes in their bottom 6 that are not likely to be fixed internally. I'll respectfully disagree that all the talent is there

 

Astounds me this is such a black and white issue for some people but again to each their own. Good or even great teams make minor TDL moves all the time that pay off (Washington picking up both Kempny and DSP or Penguins picking up Schultz). Wonder how their players feel abuot a GM not beliving in his group. 

I must admit that I am a little hesitant to fix problems right now myself. Having said that, I hope Treliving is listening to offers. Things are heating up and most of our players are at their best values to us. It makes sense to trade right now.

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence nor it is personally on any level so please don't make it such Mac

 

 

So what is it then ? It is obvious that some of our players are not going to have a level of playoff experience heading there so do you simply cast them aside or trade them just so you have that one shot at a SC ? You call them "holes" while I would say lacking some experience, no team is without weaknesses. Players only gain the experience and hunger by going through the experience itself win or lose.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Our bottom 6 forwards are amongst the worst in the league in goal differential. When it comes down to it I think teams like the Jets and the Preds are just deeper than us and in the playoffs depth throughout the lineup matters. We are basically 1.5 line team, now those guys are elite, in the playoffs teams will feast on our bottom 6 as it stands today.

We haven't even had a consistent bottom 6 established so this statement is pretty feeble. No we don't have the experienced depth of WPG but we beat them. Can we win a playoff series against them likely not but I don't see one player making that difference this season. We may have to wait a year.

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1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

I think all he's saying is you'd be hard pressed to show a Cup winner in the modern Era that did not pick up at least depth for that run..and in nearly all cases those players did come in handy 

To me , Depth means " you're eating popcorn until such time as we need you"

 

now I will say this , Starting Goaltenders and top end Dmen typically always fail and backfire 

All I see here are thoughts that try and overcompensate for a lack of experience in spots. The same players need to gain this experience and you never know who will rise to the occasion. The one thing I do agree with cross about is not having that playmaker either a C or LW playing with Neal. BP has just put the Bennett, Jankowski, Neal line together so give it some time. BT has sent out the scouts in preparation for the TDL but they are also further assessing if what they have is or can work.

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14 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

All I see here are thoughts that try and overcompensate for a lack of experience in spots. The same players need to gain this experience and you never know who will rise to the occasion. The one thing I do agree with cross about is not having that playmaker either a C or LW playing with Neal. BP has just put the Bennett, Jankowski, Neal line together so give it some time. BT has sent out the scouts in preparation for the TDL but they are also further assessing if what they have is or can work.

 

The problem is that neither Bennett nor Jankowski are play makers. All players on that line play the same way, they all want to drive to the net, but there isn't anyone to get them the puck.

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15 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

The problem is that neither Bennett nor Jankowski are play makers. All players on that line play the same way, they all want to drive to the net, but there isn't anyone to get them the puck.

Bennett has actually been better lately with distributing the puck. Jankowski definitely knows how to finish. Neal is getting more use to these guys which is why I say let them play. The TDL is the end of February so this will be an important timeframe. I have said this before but the changes I would make is have Bennett with Backlund and Frolik. Put Tkachuk as the playmaker with Jankowski and Neal. I like Jankowski but if you want a better overall player like Lindholm for that line trade him. Is Schenn that C ? I haven't seen him enough.

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20 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

All I see here are thoughts that try and overcompensate for a lack of experience in spots. The same players need to gain this experience and you never know who will rise to the occasion. The one thing I do agree with cross about is not having that playmaker either a C or LW playing with Neal. BP has just put the Bennett, Jankowski, Neal line together so give it some time. BT has sent out the scouts in preparation for the TDL but they are also further assessing if what they have is or can work.

i think there are 2 different trains of thought happening in this thread ..

while I agree, you look for ways to improve your team 24/7/365.. I'm not advocating trading any current roster players ..nor am I looking to bump anybody down in the lineup , any more than we do now ..

Right now, our top spare interchangeable parts(based on callups and who gets healthy scratched and who replaces them ) seem to consist of Hathaway, Czarnik, Peluso , Quine and Lomberg.. i just want to improve the spare parts cupboard for the playoffs ..nobody with term..players you can walk away from when its over 

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59 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

i think there are 2 different trains of thought happening in this thread ..

while I agree, you look for ways to improve your team 24/7/365.. I'm not advocating trading any current roster players ..nor am I looking to bump anybody down in the lineup , any more than we do now ..

Right now, our top spare interchangeable parts(based on callups and who gets healthy scratched and who replaces them ) seem to consist of Hathaway, Czarnik, Peluso , Quine and Lomberg.. i just want to improve the spare parts cupboard for the playoffs ..nobody with term..players you can walk away from when its over 

I don't see the players you list as a bad thing. That list covers all of the bases imho.

It seems we're (fans) still distracted by wanting 4 lines with big numbers. Our bottom 6 has pretty much been a jambalaya, so I'm hesitant to fix something that isn't finished.

Saying we're a 1.5 line team(JTech) doesn't pass the eye test for me. Our bottom 6 is fine imho, it's simply a question of expecting top 6 numbers. Every team would love that but it just doesn't work that way imo.

The biggest thing for me is that we're still learning how to be a top team. I firmly believe that is where our improvements are hiding.

So for me, we improve by the mindset change. We used to accept losses. A lot of our players got familiar with excuses.

There isn't a trade that increases our maturity, we have to earn that one.

And I believe we're watching it right now from a number of players progressing.

We have a lot of moving parts that are likely to only get better.

Our biggest trades are in-house imho, as the confidence grows.

We look at Winnipeg, Washington, Pittsburgh etc.

It's time to lose the hyperbole regarding top teams, seeing as we are one.

It doesn't need a magnifying glass.

Whose bottom 6 guys are crushing PK's?

Oh right, us.

We're one of the best teams on earth. Let's get used to it.

The big trade news that I want is Valimaki's back.

Carry on instilling a culture of winning.

We are clearly a very good team right now.

JG has hit his peak as one of the best players on the planet.

Gio being the most remarkable undrafted Dman on record.

Shout out to near everyone for thinking his contract would turn into a burden.

Norris-calibre in year 3.

He's going to have to disintegrate massively to meet any of that.

This is a Cup threat team, imho.

If this is the warm up, it's going to get ugly methinks.

We have a lot going on and getting better.

I'm good watching Ryan, Jankowski, Bennett, Hathaway etc.

Lindholm, Andersson, Hanifin, Valimaki, Rittich.

Lightning in a bottle and progressing.

 

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4 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Our bottom 6 forwards are amongst the worst in the league in goal differential. When it comes down to it I think teams like the Jets and the Preds are just deeper than us and in the playoffs depth throughout the lineup matters. We are basically 1.5 line team, now those guys are elite, in the playoffs teams will feast on our bottom 6 as it stands today.

With elite-level top 5/6 players (including D), you don’t need massive scoring in the bottom 6.  I think guys are buying into a lie as well as create some sort of fantasy line-up that has little to do with reality.  

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12 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

With elite-level top 5/6 players (including D), you don’t need massive scoring in the bottom 6.  I think guys are buying into a lie as well as create some sort of fantasy line-up that has little to do with reality.  

 

You don't need a ton of scoring from the bottom 6 but your bottom 6 has to be able to at least hold serve till your top 6 can get back out there, right now they aren't doing that.

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58 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

You don't need a ton of scoring from the bottom 6 but your bottom 6 has to be able to at least hold serve till your top 6 can get back out there, right now they aren't doing that.

How's Ryan doing at the dot again?

That's our 4th C.

You're inventing problems.

I choose to think we're only going to get better and grow as a group.

So far, so good.

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Unless injuries are an issue i dont see us going after a goalie. We need some bottom end toughness with the ability to play top line if required. Simmons and Ferland fit that mark. Dman Edler would be a good peice along side anderson, what about dzingel for depth scoring. If your after acentre rw for size depth Kevin hayes could rotate On top line as well. 

 

 

 

 

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