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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think we have to stay away from Howard as a TDL target.

Too costly.

Really we need to find a depth goalie.

It's as much as a "backup" plan for this year as looking to the future.

I would forgo the extra roster spot for a backup goalie.

Give him spot work.

If he can take the backup reins from Smith, then Smith is your vet as a fallback plan for the playoffs.

Honestly, if Rittich falters in the playoffs we won't be able to recover no matter who the backup is.

Smith has already proven he can make a serious run in the playoffs, we are planning Rittich to do the same, and we have both Parsons and Gillies who have led their earlier teams to championships as a fall-back.  Frankly, a few of you guys will not be satisfied with ANY of our goalies, even as your continuing fears have proven to be wild hallucinations and our current crop is playing outstanding.  

 

No one can predict the future, but getting another goalie should not be on the critical needs list of BT at this time.  As far as that goes, the Flames will be adding, at zero cost, a solid, physical left shot 4/5/6D with a wicked shot.  They will also be adding a fast, young Top Pair-potential/5/6 left shot D who is well rested and eager to earn his spot back.  They are likely also adding a gritty, clutch goal scorer with vast playoff success who has been getting adjusted to a new team and line mates.  If anything, their only "weakness" is perhaps a big, fast, physical 2/3/4RW to add another dimension to their game.  Of all the guys that might be a fit, perhaps Mark Stone from Ottawa, Athanasiou from Detroit, Perry from Anaheim or Simmonds from Phillie?  Of the 4 the later is probably the only one available and I would not give too much if anything off the roster to get him....

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46 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

First off, there is no need for either, we have our own internal options if there was, and no matter, the price you are willing to throw away is ridiculous.... in my view.  

 

Gillies is terrible and shouldn't play in the NHL this year and Parsons isn't anywhere near ready for NHL duty, Smith can win us games as long as our team can score 4 or more every time he is in net, so no unfortunately we don't have internal options.

 

Valimaki will be coming back, but my guess is that he spends most of not all of the rest of the season in Stockton. 

 

You can view it as an overpayment but I just don't see long term futures for either Mangiapane or Kylington in Calgary.

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29 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Smith has already proven he can make a serious run in the playoffs, we are planning Rittich to do the same, and we have both Parsons and Gillies who have led their earlier teams to championships as a fall-back.  Frankly, a few of you guys will not be satisfied with ANY of our goalies, even as your continuing fears have proven to be wild hallucinations and our current crop is playing outstanding.  

 

No one can predict the future, but getting another goalie should not be on the critical needs list of BT at this time.  As far as that goes, the Flames will be adding, at zero cost, a solid, physical left shot 4/5/6D with a wicked shot.  They will also be adding a fast, young Top Pair-potential/5/6 left shot D who is well rested and eager to earn his spot back.  They are likely also adding a gritty, clutch goal scorer with vast playoff success who has been getting adjusted to a new team and line mates.  If anything, their only "weakness" is perhaps a big, fast, physical 2/3/4RW to add another dimension to their game.  Of all the guys that might be a fit, perhaps Mark Stone from Ottawa, Athanasiou from Detroit, Perry from Anaheim or Simmonds from Phillie?  Of the 4 the later is probably the only one available and I would not give too much if anything off the roster to get him....

 

Stone is a right shot D, I am guessing that's one of the players you are talking about us getting back at zero cost. He helps the right side but both him and Andersson look fairly uncomfortable on the left side.

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50 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

What level would that be for Rittich  ? I think you are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

 

I am sorry but Smith is not playing at an NHL level this year, and let's in at least 1 soft goal per start. We also don't have a backup option for next year as neither Gillies or Parsons will be able to fill that spot next year. 

 

If Rittich is injured or falters in the playoffs, I have zero confidence Smith can win us any games at this point.

 

I think if you give up a 4th for Mrazek or McElhinney that is a small price to pay for some insurance. 

 

Goaltending is too important of a position to hope a player might rebound, especially on a contending team.

 

Also as good Rittich has been, he is still unproven, and that's not a shot at Rittich, but what is wrong with covering your butt?

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1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

 

Gillies is terrible and shouldn't play in the NHL this year and Parsons isn't anywhere near ready for NHL duty, Smith can win us games as long as our team can score 4 or more every time he is in net, so no unfortunately we don't have internal options.

 

Valimaki will be coming back, but my guess is that he spends most of not all of the rest of the season in Stockton. 

 

You can view it as an overpayment but I just don't see long term futures for either Mangiapane or Kylington in Calgary.

JTech, your comments are almost as good as Oiler trolls for a good morning laugh.... Perhaps it would be instructive to look back at your own/Travel_Dude's/others comments about goalies from last summer versus how things actually worked out.  It should be instructive for all and help temper demands for unnecessary changes just to appease your fears.  The Flames DO have internal options, and until they are needed we will not know if they would be effective or not.  In addition, trade options that many are clamouring for are not necessarily better than what we currently have and there is no guarantee they would be successful if and when needed, much less destroying the delicate team chemistry currently in play.  It is one thing to fill obvious holes in a line-up and it is something altogether different to make changes for the sake of change, just because someone chooses to consider a worst-case scenario most likely, and focuses almost exclusively on negatives and over-simplistic stats.  The Flames are humming along at a President's Trophy rate, playing excellent overall hockey and clearly head and shoulders above all but a few other teams in the NHL.  They have no obvious, clear-cut weakness at this point, and injuries are being met with internal options.  On the injury front we are getting healthier and should be "adding" several key pieces soon with injured players.  On the goalie front, the "incompetent back-up" from the summer has transformed into a near-Vezina stalwart, veteran Smith has filled in sufficiently to have a hugely successful record while getting rested and refocused should more be required, and both Gillies and Parsons have steadied their play in front of frankly very-depleted/poor defence in the AHL.  Nobody is calling them up unless it's an emergency but the Flames can certainly do worse.  Relax.... Enjoy... Flames fans haven't seen this level of play for decades.

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15 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Stone is a right shot D, I am guessing that's one of the players you are talking about us getting back at zero cost. He helps the right side but both him and Andersson look fairly uncomfortable on the left side.

Right you are, my mistake.  Even better for the Flames, BOTH right and left shot options soon available.

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12 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I am sorry but Smith is not playing at an NHL level this year, and let's in at least 1 soft goal per start. We also don't have a backup option for next year as neither Gillies or Parsons will be able to fill that spot next year. 

 

If Rittich is injured or falters in the playoffs, I have zero confidence Smith can win us any games at this point.

 

I think if you give up a 4th for Mrazek or McElhinney that is a small price to pay for some insurance. 

 

Goaltending is too important of a position to hope a player might rebound, especially on a contending team.

 

Also as good Rittich has been, he is still unproven, and that's not a shot at Rittich, but what is wrong with covering your butt?

Tell me what Goalie doesn't let in a soft goal almost every game ? NONE welcome to the new NHL.

What I look for in a Goalie is one that makes the saves when they are crucial within the game and Smith does this for the team. As does Rittich while BP seems to be using them in a good pattern. Why go spending assets to fill a perceived need wen one doesn't exist ? What goalie are you going to get that wants to be parked in Stockton ?

If Rittich is unproven to you, it is you that has a problem not the team.

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1 minute ago, cccsberg said:

JTech, your comments are almost as good as Oiler trolls for a good morning laugh.... Perhaps it would be instructive to look back at your own/Travel_Dude's/others comments about goalies from last summer versus how things actually worked out

 

Things happen that aren't expected.  What I don't want to do is put my head in the sand and hope nothing bad happens.  Not being ignorant here, just saying we all hope that we have the issue solved.  Smith is fine for spot duty.  Play him againt the weaker teams and on the 1st of a B2B.  We can handle 3 goals scored on him.  

 

What I also expect to happen is that BT recognizes that Gillies is not developed to be NHL next season.  He hasn't shown any of the same thing that Rittich did early last season.  Rittich started strong, but had trouble when the pressure amped up and the team (and he) folded under the pressure.  Gillies has not had anything like that at the NHL level.

 

I may not agree with Jtech on Mangiapane and Kylington, but I do think we need to stop hoping for a solution in nets for next year (and emergency this season) and look for a goalie to be a solid backup next season.  We may not get one in time for the playoffs, but we should be burning up the phones looking.  

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9 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I am sorry but Smith is not playing at an NHL level this year, and let's in at least 1 soft goal per start. We also don't have a backup option for next year as neither Gillies or Parsons will be able to fill that spot next year. 

 

If Rittich is injured or falters in the playoffs, I have zero confidence Smith can win us any games at this point.

 

I think if you give up a 4th for Mrazek or McElhinney that is a small price to pay for some insurance. 

 

Goaltending is too important of a position to hope a player might rebound, especially on a contending team.

 

Also as good Rittich has been, he is still unproven, and that's not a shot at Rittich, but what is wrong with covering your butt?

Smith certainly IS playing at an NHL level this year.  What do you think the Flames are, AHL?   bwahahahahahahah.....

 

Next year can be dealt with this summer.  Our SOLE focus at the moment should be this year and the upcoming playoffs.  And, btw, BOTH Gillies and Parsons are back-up options for next year.  See Rittich, last summer, as reference.

 

All Smith is doing is winning games for the Flames, which I suspect, would continue if called upon in the playoffs.  The issue is not Smith, the issue seems to be your confidence, but that is altogether another thread.....

 

IF you can get either Mrazek or McElhinney for a 4th, why wouldn't we?  Go for it.  For a fourth they can sit in the press box and eat popcorn.  Unfortunately, that is not going to happen, but I can understand your strident urgency if you really believe we can make that trade.....

 

I challenge all you doubters to find another team with better 4-deep goalie options versus the Flames, all things considered and not stats-only.  Offhand I can't think of any, though I'm sure many will question our top2, especially if you throw Smith to the curb even though he has a great record.

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4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Things happen that aren't expected.  What I don't want to do is put my head in the sand and hope nothing bad happens.  Not being ignorant here, just saying we all hope that we have the issue solved.  Smith is fine for spot duty.  Play him againt the weaker teams and on the 1st of a B2B.  We can handle 3 goals scored on him.  

 

What I also expect to happen is that BT recognizes that Gillies is not developed to be NHL next season.  He hasn't shown any of the same thing that Rittich did early last season.  Rittich started strong, but had trouble when the pressure amped up and the team (and he) folded under the pressure.  Gillies has not had anything like that at the NHL level.

 

I may not agree with Jtech on Mangiapane and Kylington, but I do think we need to stop hoping for a solution in nets for next year (and emergency this season) and look for a goalie to be a solid backup next season.  We may not get one in time for the playoffs, but we should be burning up the phones looking.  

I'm making an assumption but think it's likely, that all of us are hoping the Flames continue to burn it up and take that all the way to the Stanley Cup.  With somewhat limited playoff experience that might be asking a lot, but I think it is within reach.  Upgrading the team is always a focus, but there is always the question of cost, and team chemistry and at this point the upgrades would have to be massive (e.g. Mark Stone) or peripheral depth in my view.  Yes, things happen and the top teams rarely make it all the way, just look at Tampa Bay the past many years for proof.  We definitely have a shot and no matter what "upgrades" are made things can still go off the rails.  That's just the way it is.  

 

I agree goalies for next season are still an open discussion, but if Rittich continues to shine at least we have the main piece already in place, our starter.  The back-up issue can wait till summer.

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8 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Smith certainly IS playing at an NHL level this year.  What do you think the Flames are, AHL?   bwahahahahahahah.....

 

Next year can be dealt with this summer.  Our SOLE focus at the moment should be this year and the upcoming playoffs.  And, btw, BOTH Gillies and Parsons are back-up options for next year.  See Rittich, last summer, as reference.

 

All Smith is doing is winning games for the Flames, which I suspect, would continue if called upon in the playoffs.  The issue is not Smith, the issue seems to be your confidence, but that is altogether another thread.....

 

IF you can get either Mrazek or McElhinney for a 4th, why wouldn't we?  Go for it.  For a fourth they can sit in the press box and eat popcorn.  Unfortunately, that is not going to happen, but I can understand your strident urgency if you really believe we can make that trade.....

 

I challenge all you doubters to find another team with better 4-deep goalie options versus the Flames, all things considered and not stats-only.  Offhand I can't think of any, though I'm sure many will question our top2, especially if you throw Smith to the curb even though he has a great record.

 

Off the top of my head Winnipeg, Tampa and Anaheim all have a deeper 4 goalies than us.

 

Mrazek was traded for a 3rd last year, so a 4th this isn't out of the question. McElhinney was a waiver claim earlier this year so again a 4th isn't out of the question.

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15 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Coulda had Larkin instead of Bennett in the same draft. Come see come saw.

There was zero question Detroit was all about Larkin. Amazing how some things seem like set-ups.

But if I could make 1 change in that draft, we still wouldn't have Demko. lol

Not putting down Bennett, but he isn't winning this battle as a C.

 

Not come see come saw.  We took the concensus best player available with Bennett.  We took the second best guy in McDonald.

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If I'm shopping , I want a playmaker..that depth Dman , and a backup goalie

The backup goalie not only gives you insurance , but a possible resign for next season .. I can totally see Smith retiring .. 

 

What I'm NOT doing , is giving up any current roster player  with the sole exception of possibly Mangiapane.. I feel he is expendable in the RIGHT deal 

Kyllington , for where he is at in his development , I see being a future stud offensive Dman .. i'm not giving him up ..

 

anybody else off the roster to me is off limits , due to a huge risk of upsetting the team chemistry .

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5 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

If I'm shopping , I want a playmaker..that depth Dman , and a backup goalie

The backup goalie not only gives you insurance , but a possible resign for next season .. I can totally see Smith retiring .. 

 

What I'm NOT doing , is giving up any current roster player  with the sole exception of possibly Mangiapane.. I feel he is expendable in the RIGHT deal 

Kyllington , for where he is at in his development , I see being a future stud offensive Dman .. i'm not giving him up ..

 

anybody else off the roster to me is off limits , due to a huge risk of upsetting the team chemistry .

 

Even Neal?

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Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Even Neal?

nope , not a chance . too many factors , he will even out for starters.. and there's a reason why hes been to 2 straight finals . Hes the reason I want a playmaker 

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54 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

JTech, your comments are almost as good as Oiler trolls for a good morning laugh.... Perhaps it would be instructive to look back at your own/Travel_Dude's/others comments about goalies from last summer versus how things actually worked out.  It should be instructive for all and help temper demands for unnecessary changes just to appease your fears.  The Flames DO have internal options, and until they are needed we will not know if they would be effective or not.  In addition, trade options that many are clamouring for are not necessarily better than what we currently have and there is no guarantee they would be successful if and when needed, much less destroying the delicate team chemistry currently in play.  It is one thing to fill obvious holes in a line-up and it is something altogether different to make changes for the sake of change, just because someone chooses to consider a worst-case scenario most likely, and focuses almost exclusively on negatives and over-simplistic stats.  The Flames are humming along at a President's Trophy rate, playing excellent overall hockey and clearly head and shoulders above all but a few other teams in the NHL.  They have no obvious, clear-cut weakness at this point, and injuries are being met with internal options.  On the injury front we are getting healthier and should be "adding" several key pieces soon with injured players.  On the goalie front, the "incompetent back-up" from the summer has transformed into a near-Vezina stalwart, veteran Smith has filled in sufficiently to have a hugely successful record while getting rested and refocused should more be required, and both Gillies and Parsons have steadied their play in front of frankly very-depleted/poor defence in the AHL.  Nobody is calling them up unless it's an emergency but the Flames can certainly do worse.  Relax.... Enjoy... Flames fans haven't seen this level of play for decades.

It's refreshing to read some common sense on here once in a while. 

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17 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

If I'm shopping , I want a playmaker..that depth Dman , and a backup goalie

The backup goalie not only gives you insurance , but a possible resign for next season .. I can totally see Smith retiring .. 

 

What I'm NOT doing , is giving up any current roster player  with the sole exception of possibly Mangiapane.. I feel he is expendable in the RIGHT deal 

Kyllington , for where he is at in his development , I see being a future stud offensive Dman .. i'm not giving him up ..

 

anybody else off the roster to me is off limits , due to a huge risk of upsetting the team chemistry .

I'm still not even sure Mang is the one I would put up first. I'm more inclined to put up Czarnik up.  I dont know what his expectations were but I'm sure he's not meeting them. 

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22 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Off the top of my head Winnipeg, Tampa and Anaheim all have a deeper 4 goalies than us.

 

Mrazek was traded for a 3rd last year, so a 4th this isn't out of the question. McElhinney was a waiver claim earlier this year so again a 4th isn't out of the question.

Looking at your suggestions:

Calgary=Rittich, Smith, Gillies, Parsons, Mcdonald, Schneider

Winnipeg=Hellebuyck, Brossoit, Berdin, Comrie

Tampa=Vasilevski, Domingue, Ingram, Pasquale

Anaheim=Gibson, RMiller, CJohnson, Boyle/Redmond/Eriksson Ek

 

Looking at the starters and their seasons to date, its very close to even across the board, with Rittich trailing the others only due to experience.

Back-ups I'd put Smith and RMiller at par heading the pack, then Brossoit due to experience and Domingue trailing.  

3/4=I'd take Gillies/Parsons over them all, or at least even with the exception of Chad Johnson due to more experience....but we already had Chad and know he's not really a good long-term solution.  If Brossoit is more than a flash in the pan playing on a very strong defensive team, then  Winnipeg I agree has the best top4 goalies as Brossoit is young and a potential long-term solution.  I'd say Calgary is slightly ahead of both Tampa and Anaheim overall long-term, but a lot remains to be seen.  If this is the best of the NHL then the Flames are doing just fine, thank you very much...

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1 minute ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I'm still not even sure Mang is the one I would put up first. I'm more inclined to put up Czarnik up.  I dont know what his expectations were but I'm sure he's not meeting them. 

it was said at the time hes a project ,somebody ready to take the next step and then grow with the team..nobody was expecting immediate dividends.. I think if anything he has a higher upside than Mangiapane

 

 

i'd love to believe this is true..  could be just what Neal needs too..  https://foreverblueshirts.com/rangers-have-offer-from-flames-for-zuccarello/

 

 

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12 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

it was said at the time hes a project ,somebody ready to take the next step and then grow with the team..nobody was expecting immediate dividends.. I think if anything he has a higher upside than Mangiapane

 

 

i'd love to believe this is true..  could be just what Neal needs too..  https://foreverblueshirts.com/rangers-have-offer-from-flames-for-zuccarello/

 

 

I dont like it. 6 years older,  same size as JH, having an off year,  for 4.5 mil.  Absolute hard no.   I want the team to get a little bigger heading into the playoffs.

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13 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I dont like it. 6 years older,  same size as JH, having an off year,  for 4.5 mil.  Absolute hard no.   I want the team to get a little bigger heading into the playoffs.

hes also a pure rental, UFA..  he wont cost much at all...

don't forget about proration, as it sits according to capfriendly we can add up to $5.3M of annual salary at the deadline without deducting any salary 

We already have size, his forte' is getting scorers the puck

 

 

another interesting option .. but may end up being cost prohibitive, but doable..

Matt duchene has been essentially offered a take it or leave it deal.. meaning if he rejects they will focus on Keeping Stone instead most likely , which could make Our Michael Stone attractive to Ottawa...

 

I'd totally flip a first , Mangiapane and Stone to Ottawa to Rent Duchesne 

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Things happen that aren't expected.  What I don't want to do is put my head in the sand and hope nothing bad happens.  Not being ignorant here, just saying we all hope that we have the issue solved.  Smith is fine for spot duty.  Play him againt the weaker teams and on the 1st of a B2B.  We can handle 3 goals scored on him.  

 

What I also expect to happen is that BT recognizes that Gillies is not developed to be NHL next season.  He hasn't shown any of the same thing that Rittich did early last season.  Rittich started strong, but had trouble when the pressure amped up and the team (and he) folded under the pressure.  Gillies has not had anything like that at the NHL level.

 

I may not agree with Jtech on Mangiapane and Kylington, but I do think we need to stop hoping for a solution in nets for next year (and emergency this season) and look for a goalie to be a solid backup next season.  We may not get one in time for the playoffs, but we should be burning up the phones looking.  

I would say we are getting the Smith we know to be good coming back game by game. We need to put this constant fear aside and that would not be sticking anyone's head in the sand. Unless you watch Gilles play his games in the AHL it is difficult to have an informed opinion. One poster brought up the fact about the defense not being the greatest in Stockton which definitely effects our Goalies stats. Any time I have seen Gilles up he has looked good, things to work on but for the most part good. I would say our Goalie pipeline is in good shape especially leading into next season knowing what we have in Rittich.

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I dunno. I think you gotta get an insurance goalie if you’re wanting to win the Cup. It’s a matter of filling holes in the lineup. 

 

Some question where some were at the beginning of the year on goaltending. I thought Smith (if he could get to pre-injury smith) and Rittich could get us into the playoffs. The team also had to clean up their D, giveaways and the type of high danger chances. Rittich is the only goalie i see that has lived up to my expectations. Smith, at times, has been really scary. The argument in his case is they’ve been winning despite his performances. I don’t rhink that holds water in the Playoffs. The Playoffs get dirtier and teams tend to run goalies. I think goalie insurance is a good idea.

 

We've also heard for maybe a month or more or less that the Flames are looking for depth at LD. How many of us think we need that? I would say not many, but the organization will want to make sure there is insurance. 

 

But For me, that 1st rounder is untouchable. 

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1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

I dunno. I think you gotta get an insurance goalie if you’re wanting to win the Cup. It’s a matter of filling holes in the lineup. 

 

We've also heard for maybe a month or more or less that the Flames are looking for depth at LD. How many of us think we need that? I would say not many, but the organization will want to make sure there is insurance. 

 

But For me, that 1st rounder is untouchable. 

never forget , Chicago won 3 cups with the standard MO of trading their 1st rounder for rentals...

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4 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

never forget , Chicago won 3 cups with the standard MO of trading their 1st rounder for rentals...

 

Ya, I guess that’s the gamble most want to take. I guess you take a cup over long term success. Now they have one strong core player and 4 good ones out of it. 

 

If it wins the cup? Tough call for me. The player has to be right. So it really depends. 

 

I think JTech might have it right, if it could get us another playmaker that Neal can play with, I would be happy with that. Secondary scoring could be coming around though.

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