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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I admittedly haven't followed him much this year but if he's still effective then ya, he's someone we should target.  I wonder if there's a deal to be made with the Kings to get Thompson, Clifford, and Muzzin in one fell swoop.  Adds playoff muscle in spades.

 

I really like Muzzin, but my issue is that as it stands he blocks Valimaki next year and also adds more cap to our current situation. Also I can see the cost for Muzzin starting with a 1st.

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12 hours ago, JTech780 said:

One more name to throw out there.

 

Nate Thompson. The guy is just a flat out warrior, he plays mean, he can win faceoffs, he kills penalties, he is a good defensive forward. I see him as the ultimate 4th line forward, he can play C/LW. I don't think he cost much at all to acquire. 

 

I still remember him with Anaheim in the playoffs against us, he was a beast.

If you could get Nate Thompson for Czarnick I would do it. Good playoff experience and 4th line LW or C is where we could use some help possibly.

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34 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I really like Muzzin, but my issue is that as it stands he blocks Valimaki next year and also adds more cap to our current situation. Also I can see the cost for Muzzin starting with a 1st.

 

Fair point.  So maybe the next follow up question is, do we trade Valimaki for Muzzin + Clifford + Thompson.

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6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Fair point.  So maybe the next follow up question is, do we trade Valimaki for Muzzin + Clifford + Thompson.

 

I wouldn't, as much as I want us to go for it this year, I think it would be a mistake to move Valimaki. Muzzin is better today than Valimaki, but Valimaki will be better than Muzzin as early as next year. Valimaki is very close to untouchable IMO.

 

I actually really like Clifford, but I don't like his $1.6m cap hit for next year. I don't think we can afford that cap hit as a part time 4th line player next year. Especially if Rittich is going to get north of $4.5m.

 

Edit: Just to add I would stick with rentals at the deadline unless we are getting someone to play in our top 9.

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7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I wouldn't, as much as I want us to go for it this year, I think it would be a mistake to move Valimaki. Muzzin is better today than Valimaki, but Valimaki will be better than Muzzin as early as next year. Valimaki is very close to untouchable IMO.

 

I actually really like Clifford, but I don't like his $1.6m cap hit for next year. I don't think we can afford that cap hit as a part time 4th line player next year. Especially if Rittich is going to get north of $4.5m.

 

Edit: Just to add I would stick with rentals at the deadline unless we are getting someone to play in our top 9.

 

Ya I know what u mean.  I like Valimaki too.

 

Our LD is pretty stacked.  Even Kylington looks like he finally gets it.  Playing some smart hockey unlike his previous showings where he took terrible chances rushing up the ice.  He was too raw. But watching Kylington develop, looks like he has simplified his game and it's working well.

 

The way things are going, maybe Hanifin becomes our trade piece in 2 years time.

 

Anyways, looking at this year, a 4th line of:

 

Clifford - Thompson - Hathaway

 

Looks good with Cup experience, and can be used to grind down the other team in a seven game series. 

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13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya I know what u mean.  I like Valimaki too.

 

Our LD is pretty stacked.  Even Kylington looks like he finally gets it.  Playing some smart hockey unlike his previous showings where he took terrible chances rushing up the ice.  He was too raw. But watching Kylington develop, looks like he has simplified his game and it's working well.

 

The way things are going, maybe Hanifin becomes our trade piece in 2 years time.

 

Anyways, looking at this year, a 4th line of:

 

Clifford - Thompson - Hathaway

 

Looks good with Cup experience, and can be used to grind down the other team in a seven game series. 

 

But who will take over Giordano’s first pair D? Albeit he doesn’t look like he’ll slow down this year or next, but in up to 2-3 years it’s likely that the Flames need to move Gio down the depth chart.

 

if we start going on long runs in the playoffs, Gio can start to deteriorate faster. People are saying the later start to his career is allowing him to play at a higher level later, but I think it is the fact the Flames or he hasn’t gone deeper into the playoffs in his career where the battle is long. 

 

He’s one of the most in shape players but if the Flames start having longer seasons due to lengthy playoffs, say goodbye to his training time to get there. It could have a huge affect on his game at his age.

 

so who do we have that will play 1D in 2-3/4 years? How long does it take to groom that?

 

i am ok with playing Valamaki in the AHL if other D are better than him on the team. That’s what the AHL is for, developing players to win jobs over other players.

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3 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Although we all love and enjoy SFinest's insights and commentary, as a single person the views are going to be biased.  Think of it this way, pick one single FN blogger here to be THE commentator for the Flames.  Depending on the pick you would get VASTLY different views from that single person.  More inputs is going to provide a better, more balanced view.  

 

Personally I believe Smith has been playing fairly well the past couple months.  His record (results) is also very good, though as some have pointed out, the stats are poor.  To me the issue of Smith comes down to 2 things above all else.  What is the cost?  Previously I have seen a projection that we could get a solid back-up (Mazrek, Mcilhenney) for a 4th rounder.  Doubtful but if so, ok.  Secondly is what is the impact on the team chemistry?  Smith is fiery and demands a lot of himself, and others.  Is that attitude a detriment to the room, or is it the driver to enhanced, more focused play we are seeing this year across the board?  I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure replacing Smith WILL have an effect broadly in the room and it WILL NOT be so simplistic as replacing whatever stats "X" new goalie has for Smith's stats, like many on here seem to assume.

 

So, let me try a different tact.  Gillies and Rittich played similar amounts in the AHL in 2016/17.  Rittich was vastly superior in GAA and SA%.  Usually the AHL is a good barometer of the playing ability of the goalie, based on a normal amount of starts.  Combine stats with some negative perception by one person, and add the results and holes at the NHL level.

 

He may still be able to figure it out.  All I am suggesting is that he isn't any kind of insurance.  Smith is a valuable backup for only as long as his health is there.  Risking a season with that spectre is not something I like.  Whether his health is a mental thing (lost confidence that may still be shaken) or a groin/knee/leg problem that surfaces now and then, that is a risk.

 

Smith could play out the season in perfect health and only look shaky in a few games.  That's the best case scenario.

He's not going to play 30.  Maybe closer to 10.  The only way he tops that is if there is some other major issue.

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17 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

But who will take over Giordano’s first pair D? Albeit he doesn’t look like he’ll slow down this year or next, but in up to 2-3 years it’s likely that the Flames need to move Gio down the depth chart.

 

if we start going on long runs in the playoffs, Gio can start to deteriorate faster. People are saying the later start to his career is allowing him to play at a higher level later, but I think it is the fact the Flames or he hasn’t gone deeper into the playoffs in his career where the battle is long. 

 

He’s one of the most in shape players but if the Flames start having longer seasons due to lengthy playoffs, say goodbye to his training time to get there. It could have a huge affect on his game at his age.

 

so who do we have that will play 1D in 2-3/4 years? How long does it take to groom that?

 

i am ok with playing Valamaki in the AHL if other D are better than him on the team. That’s what the AHL is for, developing players to win jobs over other players.

 

I wouldn't trade both Valimaki and Hanifin but one of them can go if we feel Kylington factors in as second pair D long term. 

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1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

I wouldn't trade both Valimaki and Hanifin but one of them can go if we feel Kylington factors in as second pair D long term. 

 

We give up Valamaki and the Flames are almost for sure giving up a first pair D. But your gamble is that with Muzzin the Flames have a better chance at the Cup this year and possibly next. 

 

I wonder though if it limits the team’s chances at future cups by trading Valamaki. Will Valamaki be better than Hanifin? Can Hanifin be a 1st pair D?

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Can someone explain the Muzzin rationale to me? Are we thinking he's an upgrade to Brodie? Hanifin? 3rd pair?

 

Because I honestly don't see the target and the idea we should even give 2 seconds of thought to giving up Valamki for him is insane in my mind. How is Muzzin going to move the needle? 

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Do you think Ottawa would consider stone for Neal, Valimaki, and mangiapane? Or do they still want the first? I don’t want to give up on Valimaki, but it may be a way to upgrade Neal to stone. And gives us enough room to resign him. We could try a line of Tkachuk, Bennett, and Stone. With Backlund, Frolik moving to a straight shut down line.

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2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Can someone explain the Muzzin rationale to me? Are we thinking he's an upgrade to Brodie? Hanifin? 3rd pair?

 

Because I honestly don't see the target and the idea we should even give 2 seconds of thought to giving up Valamki for him is insane in my mind. How is Muzzin going to move the needle? 

I don’t see the need to upgrade on d, like a Muzzin. Our top 4 is some of the best in the league, and our young guys are coming along well.

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19 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Who would you take out of the top 4 for Muzzin? I don't think anyone deserve to be taken out.

 

He's also going to cost a boatload to acquire. No sense acquiring him as a 3rd pairing dman. 

 

My suggestion was based on the idea that Muzzin provides top 4 playing minutes capability going into the playoffs.

Our 2nd and 3rd pairs consist of 

Hanifin-Hamonic

Kylington/Valimaki-Andersson

 

We've seen Ras play up the lineup and take on close to 20 minutes.  Valimaki had seen stretches of playing 17+.  I'm fine with the way he's played mostly, but a rookie pairing, either him or Kylington, with Ras can put an extra toll on the top 4.  If you bring in Muzzin, it could balance out the 2nd and 3rd pairing.  A vet playing with a younger guy.  Obviously, you then have to cut into Gio/Brodie's minutes and play more line two 2nd pairings.

 

I'm only suggesting this if the price is right.  It may initially block Valimaki or Ras, but it also is a trade asset next season.  This season it's depth that doesn't include Prout or Stone.  Yes, I wouldn't give up a boat load for him.  If so, that makes no sense.  I just think he would be a solid add to an already great D.

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2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

But who will take over Giordano’s first pair D? Albeit he doesn’t look like he’ll slow down this year or next, but in up to 2-3 years it’s likely that the Flames need to move Gio down the depth chart.

 

if we start going on long runs in the playoffs, Gio can start to deteriorate faster. People are saying the later start to his career is allowing him to play at a higher level later, but I think it is the fact the Flames or he hasn’t gone deeper into the playoffs in his career where the battle is long. 

 

He’s one of the most in shape players but if the Flames start having longer seasons due to lengthy playoffs, say goodbye to his training time to get there. It could have a huge affect on his game at his age.

 

so who do we have that will play 1D in 2-3/4 years? How long does it take to groom that?

 

i am ok with playing Valamaki in the AHL if other D are better than him on the team. That’s what the AHL is for, developing players to win jobs over other players.

There have been a number of good defensemen play into their 40's Lindstrom and Chelios to name a few. I would worry about Giordano if and only if his play declines.

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Can someone explain the Muzzin rationale to me? Are we thinking he's an upgrade to Brodie? Hanifin? 3rd pair?

 

Because I honestly don't see the target and the idea we should even give 2 seconds of thought to giving up Valamki for him is insane in my mind. How is Muzzin going to move the needle? 

Garbage talk, zero chance of happening

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Can someone explain the Muzzin rationale to me? Are we thinking he's an upgrade to Brodie? Hanifin? 3rd pair?

 

Because I honestly don't see the target and the idea we should even give 2 seconds of thought to giving up Valamki for him is insane in my mind. How is Muzzin going to move the needle? 

Valimaki is King satoshi of satoshi Island. When that kid fills out and matures, my guess is that he will be a real beast. I would demand a lot in a trade for that guy. If we are dumb enough to trade him, it had better be to the east. 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Can someone explain the Muzzin rationale to me? Are we thinking he's an upgrade to Brodie? Hanifin? 3rd pair?

 

Because I honestly don't see the target and the idea we should even give 2 seconds of thought to giving up Valamki for him is insane in my mind. How is Muzzin going to move the needle? 

 

3rd pair.  Gives us sandpaper and Cup experience.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Valimaki is King satoshi of satoshi Island. When that kid fills out and matures, my guess is that he will be a real beast. I would demand a lot in a trade for that guy. If we are dumb enough to trade him, it had better be to the east. 

 

No one really suggested to trade him.  Just that bringing in Muzzin blocks Valimaki on the depth chart.  We can trade someone else for Muzzin.

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45 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

3rd pair.  Gives us sandpaper and Cup experience.

 

 

 

Ok fair, thanks.

 

Just a real expensive acquisition for such a limited role. 

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19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Ok fair, thanks.

 

Just a real expensive acquisition for such a limited role. 

 

Was wondering how to get all three of Muzzin, Thompson, and Clifford in one trade.  Gives us grit going into the playoffs.  What would you suggest?

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48 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Was wondering how to get all three of Muzzin, Thompson, and Clifford in one trade.  Gives us grit going into the playoffs.  What would you suggest?

Adding Clifford and Muzzin adds $5.6 to next years cap, so salary has to go back.

Unless Neal's moved in the deal, none of it looks like a great idea.

I understand the importance of grit in the bottom 6 in the playoffs, but it should be acknowledged, at some point, that in a lot of instances in the past this came from the unexpected, not guys that get traded every year because they're 4th line difference makers to winning a cup.

4th lines make a big impact, don't get me wrong, but the names are ever-changing since the days of Draper.

Throwing Valimaki's name out there, also, is, do you want longevity or a small window?

We'll need to replace Gio at some point. Can't be throwing our top LD prospect away for the current.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Was wondering how to get all three of Muzzin, Thompson, and Clifford in one trade.  Gives us grit going into the playoffs.  What would you suggest?

 

Hard because I wouldn't personally do that.

 

I think to get Muzzin alone the price would start at a first plus Kylington or Dube. Then add another additional pieces to get Thompson and Clifford. Thompson is probably like a 4/5th round pick but Clifford might require something alone the lines of a 2nd or B+ prospect. 

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33 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Adding Clifford and Muzzin adds $5.6 to next years cap, so salary has to go back.

Unless Neal's moved in the deal, none of it looks like a great idea.

I understand the importance of grit in the bottom 6 in the playoffs, but it should be acknowledged, at some point, that in a lot of instances in the past this came from the unexpected, not guys that get traded every year because they're 4th line difference makers to winning a cup.

4th lines make a big impact, don't get me wrong, but the names are ever-changing since the days of Draper.

Throwing Valimaki's name out there, also, is, do you want longevity or a small window?

We'll need to replace Gio at some point. Can't be throwing our top LD prospect away for the current.

 

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Hard because I wouldn't personally do that.

 

I think to get Muzzin alone the price would start at a first plus Kylington or Dube. Then add another additional pieces to get Thompson and Clifford. Thompson is probably like a 4/5th round pick but Clifford might require something alone the lines of a 2nd or B+ prospect. 

 

Well do you guys think we have the grit in house?  Can we run with,

 

Lomberg - Hathaway - Quine

 

Maybe Rychel and Peluso adds to the equation  Does that give us enough? 

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We could very well be short of it, but you don't know until you try.

If that was the case last year, I'd agree. But we don't have history to draw on.

For me, that grit and integrity is established in building the team.

NYRs established a long time ago that you can't buy a championship team like other sports.

 

I'm honestly not worried myself.

We're gonna have a lot of depth when the roster expands. Even more looks than now.

I'd be willing to add Jimmy Howard, but that's pretty much it. That solidifies goal.

We're unproven. But there's no reason to shy away from that, unless we want to be unproven every year.

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