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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I've never agreed with this narrative, i think it's wrong. Flames were the better team for most of that series and lost due to bad goaltending and a lack of scoring. 2 things that so far look very different on this club than that one. 

While I agree that the goaltending was not ideal, and I most certainly agree that we lacked the ability to score, I will push back and say we had our buts handed to us in the physical department. We also got screwed in the officiating department IMO. By that, I mean a lot of our players took poundings and were unable to reciprocate. A key way to eliminate that physical roughness advantage is to skate faster and move the puck at lightning speed. If you are successful in those regards, the goon team cannot line you up properly, and they have to take penalties. That is how you expose their weaknesses. 

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2 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

While I agree that the goaltending was not ideal, and I most certainly agree that we lacked the ability to score, I will push back and say we had our buts handed to us in the physical department. We also got screwed in the officiating department IMO. By that, I mean a lot of our players took poundings and were unable to reciprocate. A key way to eliminate that physical roughness advantage is to skate faster and move the puck at lightning speed. If you are successful in those regards, the goon team cannot line you up properly, and they have to take penalties. That is how you expose their weaknesses. 

 

I understand but I still don't agree. Was Anaheim more physical sure, but I don't think it played a part in the outcome at all. 

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2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

There will always be the Trademaniacs. LOL

Although if Hagelin is available from LAK I would rather we obtain him one of our foes. Plus we get a look at him for maybe next season.

True enough. I like shiny new things as well. I could just see Treliving being tempted while window shopping given it is in his best interests to go "all in" this year. He comes across as a disciplined strategist, and I hope his future decisions are consistent with that mindset. If on trade deadline day, he makes the most boring of trades while lesser mortals go hog wild, I will be more than happy.

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1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

I understand but I still don't agree. Was Anaheim more physical sure, but I don't think it played a part in the outcome at all. 

I am surprised that you, of all people, would post that comment cross. I would put good money on the bet, that if you ask pretty much any of our players how they truly feel right now (physically), there is not one player who does not have multiple, significant injuries. They are all beat up and hurting. When you get into the playoffs, you are already worn down, beat up, and struggling to keep your mouth shut about the pain. Having the Keslers and Perrys smacking, hitting, slashing etc. and then getting penalized every time there is the slightest of reactions, had a major impact on that playoff series. I suspect that Ferland was a key part of how we got as far as we did. Ask Bieksa if he felt that Ferkland was a force. After each game, Bieksa thought that Ferkland was a country in Europe.

 

To be clear, I like an offensive style of hockey. I would rather watch a 6-4 game over a 1-0 game any day. I respect defence, but I do not love it. We will have to face the gross teams sans talent though, and they are going to try this roughing, slowing down the game tactic again. I don't thinking gooning it up is the way to go. We need to be faster and dominate early. Of course, the indicators of success that we will both use will be the same: more scoring.

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4 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I am surprised that you, of all people, would post that comment cross. I would put good money on the bet, that if you ask pretty much any of our players how they truly feel right now (physically), there is not one player who does not have multiple, significant injuries. They are all beat up and hurting. When you get into the playoffs, you are already worn down, beat up, and struggling to keep your mouth shut about the pain. Having the Keslers and Perrys smacking, hitting, slashing etc. and then getting penalized every time there is the slightest of reactions, had a major impact on that playoff series. I suspect that Ferland was a key part of how we got as far as we did. Ask Bieksa if he felt that Ferkland was a force. After each game, Bieksa thought that Ferkland was a country in Europe.

 

To be clear, I like an offensive style of hockey. I would rather watch a 6-4 game over a 1-0 game any day. I respect defence, but I do not love it. We will have to face the gross teams sans talent though, and they are going to try this roughing, slowing down the game tactic again. I don't thinking gooning it up is the way to go. We need to be faster and dominate early. Of course, the indicators of success that we will both use will be the same: more scoring.

 

So let's back up, which Anaheim series are we talking about here? I'm talking about the 2017 series but you may be talking about 2015? 2015 they beat the Canucks and then lost to the Ducks and Ferland was excellent, but he was a non factor in 2017. 

 

 

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For those who feel that the Flames should stand Pat, I 100% understand that line of thinking and I can't say that it's wrong. That being said I was listening to the Spitting Chicklets podcast yesterday and they were interviewing Ray Bourque and they were talking about his days with the Bruins and he sounded almost bitter that management didn't do more to help the team's win by bringing in players. He said that there were a few years where he felt they were a player or two away from going all the way and management didn't help them out.

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I wonder if we could get a guy like Cody McLeod for a conditional 7th or something like that and only use him if we go up against a team like Winnipeg. 

 

I think we can get past the first two rounds without needing that type of player. Right now if you look at it Winnipeg is the only real heavy team in the playoffs. 

 

If we stay 1st in the Pacific we will probably play a team like Dallas, Colorado or Minnesota and IMO you beat those teams with speed. Same with SJ or Vegas who we would play in the 2nd round.

 

I am fine with having a guy like McLeod in the back pocket in case you need him, but I would much rather have Hagelin's speed on the 4th line.

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12 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

For those who feel that the Flames should stand Pat, I 100% understand that line of thinking and I can't say that it's wrong. That being said I was listening to the Spitting Chicklets podcast yesterday and they were interviewing Ray Bourque and they were talking about his days with the Bruins and he sounded almost bitter that management didn't do more to help the team's win by bringing in players. He said that there were a few years where he felt they were a player or two away from going all the way and management didn't help them out.

There are never any guarantees with bringing someone in, changes cause other changes and you better be sure. This team as a whole is playing for each other and this is more important than any one player they would get at the TDL. If they are simply going to tamper with the 4th line or bottom pairing is it really worth upsetting the apple cart ?

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8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I wonder if we could get a guy like Cody McLeod for a conditional 7th or something like that and only use him if we go up against a team like Winnipeg. 

 

I think we can get past the first two rounds without needing that type of player. Right now if you look at it Winnipeg is the only real heavy team in the playoffs. 

 

If we stay 1st in the Pacific we will probably play a team like Dallas, Colorado or Minnesota and IMO you beat those teams with speed. Same with SJ or Vegas who we would play in the 2nd round.

 

I am fine with having a guy like McLeod in the back pocket in case you need him, but I would much rather have Hagelin's speed on the 4th line.

I could get behind Hagelin as an addition.

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

So let's back up, which Anaheim series are we talking about here? I'm talking about the 2017 series but you may be talking about 2015? 2015 they beat the Canucks and then lost to the Ducks and Ferland was excellent, but he was a non factor in 2017. 

 

 

:lol: I was thinking 2015. Sorry about that. 

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

I wonder if we could get a guy like Cody McLeod for a conditional 7th or something like that and only use him if we go up against a team like Winnipeg. 

 

I think we can get past the first two rounds without needing that type of player. Right now if you look at it Winnipeg is the only real heavy team in the playoffs. 

 

If we stay 1st in the Pacific we will probably play a team like Dallas, Colorado or Minnesota and IMO you beat those teams with speed. Same with SJ or Vegas who we would play in the 2nd round.

 

I am fine with having a guy like McLeod in the back pocket in case you need him, but I would much rather have Hagelin's speed on the 4th line.

 

But there's usually no fighting in the playoffs.

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3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

There are never any guarantees with bringing someone in, changes cause other changes and you better be sure. This team as a whole is playing for each other and this is more important than any one player they would get at the TDL. If they are simply going to tamper with the 4th line or bottom pairing is it really worth upsetting the apple cart ?

 

If the team is going to be upset by bringing in a player or two then they probably aren't championship material. You have to be much stronger mentally than that. 

 

I am not saying they have to bring someone in and I am not saying that chemistry isn't important, but almost every Stanley Cup winner in the last 15 years has added someone at the deadline.

 

Are the players going to stop playing because we brought in an upgrade on a Mangiapane or Kylington for the 4th line or 3rd pairings, if they do we have bigger problems.

 

Bringing in a Hagelin or Bouwmeester to fill some depth spots could be seen as management believing in the group and giving them a better chance at winning.

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52 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

But there's usually no fighting in the playoffs.

 

That's true, but if a Byfuglien or a Austin Watson get running around it would be nice to have a guy who can come in for game as a Plan B and maybe throw some weight back at them.

 

Plan A should be to kill those guys on the PP with speed and skill. 

 

I would say that when this team gets away from the speed/possession style of play and tries to match teams physically we tend to struggle. I don't think a McLeod should play much at all for this if we acquired him, he would just be a guy to put in the lineup to try and give the team a physical edge.

 

If all I am giving up is a 7th, I would do that to have McLeod as an insurance policy.

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5 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Two players I would have my eye on as UFAs in the offseason would be Hagelin and Silfverberg but not now. Hagelin will not be cheap to obtain now and no way ANA deals us Silfverberg. Couple of fellow Swedes for Backlund next season.

 

I'm not sure why people love Hagelin, other than his speed.

That's just me I guess.  I'm not super impressed.

Silfverberg is absolutely a player I would target.

Won't be cheap, but ANA will trade him to us, if they are sellers.

They have to retool and the easiest way is to get picks and prospects.

 

A player I still have interest in is Nichushkin.  Has not had a good year and I feel they may give up on him sooner tham later.

He would learn a lot under Peters.  His size would also help us down the stretch and into the playoffs.

 

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3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not sure why people love Hagelin, other than his speed.

That's just me I guess.  I'm not super impressed.

Silfverberg is absolutely a player I would target.

Won't be cheap, but ANA will trade him to us, if they are sellers.

They have to retool and the easiest way is to get picks and prospects.

 

A player I still have interest in is Nichushkin.  Has not had a good year and I feel they may give up on him sooner tham later.

He would learn a lot under Peters.  His size would also help us down the stretch and into the playoffs.

 

 

Absolutely it's his speed, he is one of the fastest players in the NHL, his speed also makes him a very good penalty killer. He can play up the lineup in case of injuries as well.

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https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Rumors-A-Plenty-On-Panarin-Stone-Penguins-Simmonds-Mons-Buzz/1/97394

 

Just to stir the pot. Eklund is saying we are extremely interested in Stone. I would file this under the of course we are interested in Stone 31 teams in the NHL are interested in Stone he is a fantastic player. Not sure I would make the trade considering how much it would cost and I have no idea how we could get him, Tkachuk and Rittich under contract next year.

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4 hours ago, JTech780 said:

For those who feel that the Flames should stand Pat, I 100% understand that line of thinking and I can't say that it's wrong. That being said I was listening to the Spitting Chicklets podcast yesterday and they were interviewing Ray Bourque and they were talking about his days with the Bruins and he sounded almost bitter that management didn't do more to help the team's win by bringing in players. He said that there were a few years where he felt they were a player or two away from going all the way and management didn't help them out.

 

I do agree this is a thing and to add i've heard more than several players and even some executives talk about this. You also have the more famous Toronto Blue Jays incident of 2011/2012 (can't remember exactly what year) where they were close to a playoff spot and didn't add leading to a few of their leaders publicly bashing the team and questioning them to the point the manager had to step in and try to get everyone back on the same page but their season sort of spiraled. But you also have Craig Conroy who last week commented on the Jokinen trade and how they were playing great before it but after words they didn't win 2 in a row the rest of the year. Can go both ways and Brian Burke made interesting comments on this too. Last week he said in these circumstances he chats with his captain and gets a pulse of what the team needs and who they would be comfortable losing out of the room if anyone. He said you still do what you feel is right, but speaking to the captain gives you an idea of what ramifications can be there, good or bad, if you make a trade deadline deal. 

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2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

My bet is it starts:

Our 1st, Valamaki or Andersson, and Bennett , possibly more.

I think this is close, maybe a slight overpay for a rental.  I could see something like our 1st + Janko/Bennett + Conditional 2nd (if resigned, the 2nd becomes next year's 1st)

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Stone is obviously a fantastic player but that's not a deal i'm making. It would be extremely challenging to retain him in the off-season without turning over 1/4 of the roster and you will likely have to lose a core player. Assuming Stone gets about 8.75 and Tkachuk 7.25(which is low) the Flames would have to lose Frolik, Stone and Brodie and would be left with 5 million in cap space and would still need to sign 3-4 players to fill out the roster. Not a likely scenario so you are needing to trade someone else who makes more money and I don't think it's worth it to upset the team that much. 

 

And as a rental I think that price is too much. If you are going to give up those types of assets call Philly and ask for Sean Courturier as apparently Giroux is the only untouchable on that team right now (according to their GM)

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I wouldn't be looking to remove any current players from the flames NHL roster in a trade. There is a reason the flames are currently tops in the west and it all starts with the group they have. 

 

A player that would be great for the flames would be Miles Wood. He's locked in for the next 4 years at 2.75 mill per year. He can be a physical player and he also has the skill to contribute to the teams offence and penalty kill. I wonder if the devils would be listening to offers on him as they have been rumoured to be moving out a few players. I'd dangle a 2nd/3rd and an AHLer like Foo/Lazar/Mang for him to see if it was enough. 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I do agree this is a thing and to add i've heard more than several players and even some executives talk about this. You also have the more famous Toronto Blue Jays incident of 2011/2012 (can't remember exactly what year) where they were close to a playoff spot and didn't add leading to a few of their leaders publicly bashing the team and questioning them to the point the manager had to step in and try to get everyone back on the same page but their season sort of spiraled. But you also have Craig Conroy who last week commented on the Jokinen trade and how they were playing great before it but after words they didn't win 2 in a row the rest of the year. Can go both ways and Brian Burke made interesting comments on this too. Last week he said in these circumstances he chats with his captain and gets a pulse of what the team needs and who they would be comfortable losing out of the room if anyone. He said you still do what you feel is right, but speaking to the captain gives you an idea of what ramifications can be there, good or bad, if you make a trade deadline deal. 

 

Treliving absolutely has to get the feel for where his team is at, gage the feeling in the room before making a deal. If you look at the Hamilton/Lindholm trade I think Treliving has a good read on his and what the dressing room is like.

 

I just like trade talk I think it is fun and exciting and provides for good conversation.

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57 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Stone is obviously a fantastic player but that's not a deal i'm making. It would be extremely challenging to retain him in the off-season without turning over 1/4 of the roster and you will likely have to lose a core player. Assuming Stone gets about 8.75 and Tkachuk 7.25(which is low) the Flames would have to lose Frolik, Stone and Brodie and would be left with 5 million in cap space and would still need to sign 3-4 players to fill out the roster. Not a likely scenario so you are needing to trade someone else who makes more money and I don't think it's worth it to upset the team that much. 

 

And as a rental I think that price is too much. If you are going to give up those types of assets call Philly and ask for Sean Courturier as apparently Giroux is the only untouchable on that team right now (according to their GM)

 

I wonder what it would take to get Couturier or Nolan Patrick.

 

I can't see them giving up on Patrick so quick but you never know. 

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Count me in on Coutiurier. That puts you at Monahan-Backlund-Couturier down the middle. That right there is as good a centre group as you’ll find in the West. Would be costly but Couturier is signed to a sweetheart of a deal at 4.3 for the next 3 seasons. Extremely high price to pay but i think it puts you ahead or equal to the Jets in Preds in the east if you make that move 

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