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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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37 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I'm all for getting Stone if we plan to re-sign him long term (even medium term).  If we are clearly renting then it doesn't make sense.  It's smarter to try and sign him this summer along with everybody else.

 

Which means, as part of the trade, the Sens will have to take on Frolik and his salary.  Which also makes sens if Stone takes Frolik's spot alongside Tkachuk - Backlund.

 

1st + Frolik + prospect (which I think has to be Dube, not our D because all our D are on our current roster.  We would want to trade someone not on our current roster).

 

But we have to extend Stone for at least 3 years to make this trade worth it.

 

You could send a Kylington over in the deal as well. 

 

1st, Frolik, Dube, Kylington

would that be enough? 

 

Frolik is a guy the coach is so-so on. Dube is a decent prospect. Kylington is a bottom 4 candidate. Frolik is a great 2nd/3rd line 200’ player. Or do we add more if Stone re-signs?

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3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

TDL deals have worked in the past and we shouldn't shy away from it if the right deal landed on our lap.  In '04, I believe we traded for Chris Simon at the deadline and it paid huge dividends.

 

No matter what we do, I'd like to see us manage our roster for a 4 to 5 year Cup window.  This means we should keep our picks as they will help in year 4 and 5.  We should hang onto Dube if we can.  

 

We aren't in an "all-in" situation.  Our core is young signed long term to a fair deal. And Giordano is still elite.

 

In comparison, a team like the Sharks might want to go all in because of aging vets and Karlsson may leave them this summer.

 

The Leafs are going all in because of pending cap issues next season.

 

The Jets may want to go all in this year because they have big name free agents this summer that they will lose one or two of.

I agree.

We're young at this so reactive moves aren't necessary unless it's a true upgrade.

We're unlikely to find value at tdl time.

I'm very cool with waiting. Rome wasn't built in a day as they say.

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8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

TDL deals have worked in the past and we shouldn't shy away from it if the right deal landed on our lap.  In '04, I believe we traded for Chris Simon at the deadline and it paid huge dividends.

 

No matter what we do, I'd like to see us manage our roster for a 4 to 5 year Cup window.  This means we should keep our picks as they will help in year 4 and 5.  We should hang onto Dube if we can.  

 

We aren't in an "all-in" situation.  Our core is young signed long term to a fair deal. And Giordano is still elite.

 

In comparison, a team like the Sharks might want to go all in because of aging vets and Karlsson may leave them this summer.

 

The Leafs are going all in because of pending cap issues next season.

 

The Jets may want to go all in this year because they have big name free agents this summer that they will lose one or two of.

 

I am not saying we need to go all in, but when you look at that quick list you see that most teams pick up depth players. Players like Hagelin, Kunitz, McLeod, Bouwmeester these are the type of players I would bring in. Even Zuccarello would be a solid add and I think Freidman said that the ask was something like a 2nd and a prospect, but I am guessing that goes down with guys like Duchene and Panarin being available.

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32 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

Bourque missed the playoffs twice in his 100 year career. In his mind his team may of been a player or two away from going all the way somewhere along the line.

 

I like what the Blue Jay's did a couple years ago.  They saw the Yankees and Red Sox going full rebuild and so they took the opportunity to put all their chips in to try and win.  It was an exciting 3 years.

 

I like what the Raptors are doing this season. LeBron is in the West.  They East is wide open. They themselves may only have Kawhi Leonard for one season so they want to go all in this season.

 

When you look at the Flames this season, is the window wide wide open?  Do we get complacent and miss this opportunity?  Or do we go for it all?

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9 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

TDL deals have worked in the past and we shouldn't shy away from it if the right deal landed on our lap.  In '04, I believe we traded for Chris Simon at the deadline and it paid huge dividends.

 

No matter what we do, I'd like to see us manage our roster for a 4 to 5 year Cup window.  This means we should keep our picks as they will help in year 4 and 5.  We should hang onto Dube if we can.  

 

We aren't in an "all-in" situation.  Our core is young signed long term to a fair deal. And Giordano is still elite.

 

In comparison, a team like the Sharks might want to go all in because of aging vets and Karlsson may leave them this summer.

 

The Leafs are going all in because of pending cap issues next season.

 

The Jets may want to go all in this year because they have big name free agents this summer that they will lose one or two of.

 

We traded for Ville Nieminen that TD as well. I thought he put us over the edge because he brought the sh-t factor that other teams hate. It was when I realized we had the one that put us over. The little things that sometimes wins, like getting under the other team’s skin.

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2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I am not saying we need to go all in, but when you look at that quick list you see that most teams pick up depth players. Players like Hagelin, Kunitz, McLeod, Bouwmeester these are the type of players I would bring in. Even Zuccarello would be a solid add and I think Freidman said that the ask was something like a 2nd and a prospect, but I am guessing that goes down with guys like Duchene and Panarin being available.

 

I've never been a Toffoli fan but I wonder if we can get him for a 2nd round pick?

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6 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I do agree we need to add, but not a top 6 forward. We have a solid top 6 roster with forwards but lack depth scoring. As for trading Benny would we not be looking to trade for a guy like this. Guys of interest Nyquist, Ferland or Dizingel. Ferly we know what we get out of the 3 Nyquist brings an element that fits our style. Mcquiad would be my choice on D. 

 

I was listening to Burke on the radio the other day and he was talking about Ferland and how he wasn't surprised that Treliving traded him in the Carolina deal, he said that they spent the whole 2nd half trying to get him to play better, but nobody could get through to him.

 

I like McQuiad, the only issue is that he is a RHS so I am not sure how he fits, do you play him or Andersson on the wrong side.

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9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

You could send a Kylington over in the deal as well. 

 

1st, Frolik, Dube, Kylington

would that be enough? 

 

Frolik is a guy the coach is so-so on. Dube is a decent prospect. Kylington is a bottom 4 candidate. Frolik is a great 2nd/3rd line 200’ player. Or do we add more if Stone re-signs?

 

A 1st + Frolik + Dube should be enough. 

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5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I've never been a Toffoli fan but I wonder if we can get him for a 2nd round pick?

 

I think you could get Toffoli for cheaper than that, his value is pretty low.

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3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think we are all in, is this not why you build your roster at the beginning of the season. Where do you see a weakness with this team ? I would say you only add if you believe you have certain positions that will fail you in the challenge.

I'd say there's still room for more grit and scoring....can't bank on the 1st line staying as productive in a playoff atmosphere. Ryan, Czarnik are soft and it'd be a shame to leave the heavy lifting up to Tkachuk. I don't see Lomberg or Peluso scaring anyone, might not be a bad idea to get some security ...last thing we need is a slash knocking JH out for any amount of time. 

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3 minutes ago, rickross said:

I'd say there's still room for more grit and scoring....can't bank on the 1st line staying as productive in a playoff atmosphere. Ryan, Czarnik are soft and it'd be a shame to leave the heavy lifting up to Tkachuk. I don't see Lomberg or Peluso scaring anyone, might not be a bad idea to get some security ...last thing we need is a slash knocking JH out for any amount of time. 

At the end of the day that's the psychological game. We aren't struggling with that imo.

We just go onslaught when we're losing. I like our approach so far.

A lot of teams have gotten really apprehensive. lol

Toughness has little to do with it.

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2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

We traded for Ville Nieminen that TD as well. I thought he put us over the edge because he brought the sh-t factor that other teams hate. It was when I realized we had the one that put us over. The little things that sometimes wins, like getting under the other team’s skin.

 

I forgot about Nieminen but yes, he played with an edge and was great on the PK with breakaway speed.  We could always add one more of his types.

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think you could get Toffoli for cheaper than that, his value is pretty low.

 

I doubt that low though.  If our second line had a finisher like him then we are much better for it. It alleviates the pressure on our first line to score every game.  But he seems to be a classic one dimensional player though I haven't looked into his advanced stats.  If he's not far from Frolik in that regard then he's a player I think could join our roster and not upset much chemistry.

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1 hour ago, rickross said:

I'd say there's still room for more grit and scoring....can't bank on the 1st line staying as productive in a playoff atmosphere. Ryan, Czarnik are soft and it'd be a shame to leave the heavy lifting up to Tkachuk. I don't see Lomberg or Peluso scaring anyone, might not be a bad idea to get some security ...last thing we need is a slash knocking JH out for any amount of time. 

 

The playoffs can get dirty so I would upgrade on Czarnik for sure.  He's been disappointing overall.

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3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I doubt that low though.  If our second line had a finisher like him then we are much better for it. It alleviates the pressure on our first line to score every game.  But he seems to be a classic one dimensional player though I haven't looked into his advanced stats.  If he's not far from Frolik in that regard then he's a player I think could join our roster and not upset much chemistry.

For clarity, Toffoli would replace Frolik?

Yeah ummm.

On the other hand, we worry about grit.

I'm not part of the "move Frolik" movement.

I don't understand it at all, tbh.

Couldn't ask for a better or more well-rounded vet.

If he keeps being, "the fittest Flame", maybe we should extend him...just not at 4.3.

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7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

A 1st + Frolik + Dube should be enough. 

I am in the get Stone camp, and believe we could sign him long term, as Tkachuk and him are both represented by NewPort Sports and I think there is a play there. I think the trade needs to be our 2020 1st + Neal + Dube + Kylington (which may have to be valimaki to take on Neal’s salary). It has to be an overpayment to get rid of Neal to afford Stone, but that is an immediate upgrade to our RW, and allows Bennett to play center with Tkachuk and Stone, and keep Backlund and Frolik together in a shut down role. 

I am also hopeful that this years 1st round pick could be Brett Leason who IMHO could be a similar Mark Stone Product and would have a great mentor. 

Probably all wishful thinking though

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9 hours ago, rickross said:

I'd say there's still room for more grit and scoring....can't bank on the 1st line staying as productive in a playoff atmosphere. Ryan, Czarnik are soft and it'd be a shame to leave the heavy lifting up to Tkachuk. I don't see Lomberg or Peluso scaring anyone, might not be a bad idea to get some security ...last thing we need is a slash knocking JH out for any amount of time. 

You aren't going to prevent a slash by adding grit for the playoffs. We talk all the time about how long it takes sometimes for a player coming onto a new team to fit in. We may only now be finding the right set up for Neal (who I hope comes alive real soon). The one suggestion I like is the Hagelin from LAK if we can get him for like a 3rd round pick. He would be a step above Quine but we could also live with Quine. I don't think we need any change with our defense or the net.

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10 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

We traded for Ville Nieminen that TD as well. I thought he put us over the edge because he brought the sh-t factor that other teams hate. It was when I realized we had the one that put us over. The little things that sometimes wins, like getting under the other team’s skin.

We have Tkachuk for that angle.

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13 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Couturier is a #1 center and one of the best two way players in the league. He had 31 goals and 76 points last season and is on pace for 32 goals and 66 points this year. 

 

I like Bennett a lot but he isn't a top 6 player in this league and I don't think he will become one. What he is is a real good physical 3rd line player that can play all 3 forward positions. You have to give to get. I don't want to give up Bennett, but if I am getting a star player like Couturier in return I do that deal 

 

Couturier also has 3 more years $4.3m, that contract comes with a ton of value.

 

 

PHI has stated they have no intention of a rebuild so I hardly think they trade one of their best players.

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12 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

lol you are hilarious.

 

Washington got Jakub Jerabek and Michal Kempny. Kempny played a big role on their blueline, even though they had Madison Bowey who was a highly thought of rookie who played 51 games in the regular season. Too bad they didn't win the Cup though...

 

Vegas picked up Tomas Tatar and Ryan Reaves at the deadline.

 

The year before that Pittsburgh picked up Ron Hainsey at the deadline. The deadline before that they picked up Justin Schultz.

 

In 2015 Chicago brought in Vermette, Timonen, and Desjardins.

 

In 2014 LA picked up Gaborik and McNabb.

 

Tell me when to stop...

 

Don't stop because you seem to feed off this stuff. I disagree that those two put WAS over the top to win the SC. If I remember correctly Tatar was a dud for Vegas last season.

Hainsey won PIT the SC. I could sit here and refute everything you want to post but I have better things to do however I have a better understanding of where you deal from.

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10 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

You could send a Kylington over in the deal as well. 

 

1st, Frolik, Dube, Kylington

would that be enough? 

 

Frolik is a guy the coach is so-so on. Dube is a decent prospect. Kylington is a bottom 4 candidate. Frolik is a great 2nd/3rd line 200’ player. Or do we add more if Stone re-signs?

I don't think our depth is in good enough shape to go sending of players like Kylington and Dube, this would be short sighted IMO. Frolik likely gets traded this offseason but right now he is the type of experienced player we need for a Cup run.

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8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I doubt that low though.  If our second line had a finisher like him then we are much better for it. It alleviates the pressure on our first line to score every game.  But he seems to be a classic one dimensional player though I haven't looked into his advanced stats.  If he's not far from Frolik in that regard then he's a player I think could join our roster and not upset much chemistry.

Toffoli or Neal, whats the difference right now and Neal has more experience.

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23 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think our depth is in good enough shape to go sending of players like Kylington and Dube, this would be short sighted IMO. Frolik likely gets traded this offseason but right now he is the type of experienced player we need for a Cup run.

 

Oh definitely. I don’t see the Flames making that kind of deal. I am just adding to the conversation as I don’t see some of the combinations as doable and see the Flames having to add more in deals that some suggest. 

 

I also like the idea of the Flames keeping their 1st rounder. 

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Since i mentioned Courturier, I will add that I agree I can't fathom why Philly would want to trade him as I consider him to have one of the best contracts in the league and he's an excellent player. But at the same time when your GM flat out says publicly that the only untouchable on your roster is Giroux it's going to create speculation and discussion. I'm not in favor of a big trade deadline move unless something falls in your lap and this is one of those situations. I would be willing to give up quite a big to get Couturier including guys like Bennett, Janko, Kylington, maybe even Rasmus Andersson. 

 

Unlikely to happen but Treliving should be making the calls. 

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11 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I was listening to Burke on the radio the other day and he was talking about Ferland and how he wasn't surprised that Treliving traded him in the Carolina deal, he said that they spent the whole 2nd half trying to get him to play better, but nobody could get through to him.

 

I like McQuiad, the only issue is that he is a RHS so I am not sure how he fits, do you play him or Andersson on the wrong side.

 

Not the first time i've heard something like this. As i've said before I don't think it was an accident he was in that deal and I don't think its pure coincidence that Flames have a better dressing room with both those guys gone. 

 

I think it's highly unlikely the Flames want Ferland back. 

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