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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

I"d be with MaC on this one, Stepan would be a needle mover. He's an excellent top 6 center when healthy and he makes others around him better. 

 

But I also think JTech is right, Stepan isn't going anywhere unless you really overpay. Chyka on a podcast last week called Stepan one of the most impressive players he's ever been around and said he was a huge part of their team. Arizona is getting really close and if they could stay healthy would probably be in the playoffs right now. I don't think they are going to start moving backwards. 

 

I would disagree.

 

I have Backlund > Stepan and Stepan would be our 3rd line C.  Upgrade on Janko sure... But doesn't push us above SJ, WPG, NSH, etc

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3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I mean you.  Not BT.  What would you offer to get Stepan?

Go read

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Just now, The_People1 said:

 

I would disagree.

 

I have Backlund > Stepan and Stepan would be our 3rd line C.  Upgrade on Janko sure... But doesn't push us above SJ, WPG, NSH, etc

You don't know your players, go look at Stepan's assists record and tell me he is not a playmaker that could feed shooters such as Tkachuk and Neal. 

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30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I would disagree.

 

I have Backlund > Stepan and Stepan would be our 3rd line C.  Upgrade on Janko sure... But doesn't push us above SJ, WPG, NSH, etc

 

For me Backlund=Stepan. Both are very good two way centers but Stepan is the better play maker. I think Stepan is a really underrated player becuase he can't stay healthy but if he did, we'd appreciate him a lot more. 

 

I guess it depends on your angle. The reason I suggest that Stepan is a needle mover is I think a way the Flames can move the needle is by essentially created 2 2nd lines. I like Bennett and Neal and I think a legit top 6 center takes that lines to a 2nd line cablire. The Flames could roll one of the best lines in the NHL, one of the best shutdown lines in the league that still provides offence and a then a legit 2nd line that can get better O zone starts and take advantage of matchups.

 

That flexibility IMO does move the needle because it would make the Flames VERY hard to defend so that's why I say it moves the needle becuase I think it gives you something that make a different in winning. That can be 1 player, ala Stone, but I thikn it can also be by improving a situation. Adding someone like Stepan also should help the 2nd PP unit which I think also helps moves the needle.

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13 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I"d be with MaC on this one, Stepan would be a needle mover. He's an excellent top 6 center when healthy and he makes others around him better. 

 

But I also think JTech is right, Stepan isn't going anywhere unless you really overpay. Chyka on a podcast last week called Stepan one of the most impressive players he's ever been around and said he was a huge part of their team. Arizona is getting really close and if they could stay healthy would probably be in the playoffs right now. I don't think they are going to start moving backwards. 

 

 

This is a fair point if they needed to move salary. 

 

I don't disagree on your first part, i'm just questioning that they'll move him unless they get a roster player. For me I think they'd rather keep him than trade him for just a pick given he has had some previous playoff success and they aren't exactly the deepest team. 

 

I'll ask you, what is "overpayment" for Stepan if he could be a key addition for a few SCs here starting now. ARZ may be starting to get better but they are still a ways away from being taken seriously. You are a Jays follower, ARZ keeping Stepan would be like the jays keeping Halladay during his best years, USELESS.

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9 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I'll ask you, what is "overpayment" for Stepan if he could be a key addition for a few SCs here starting now. ARZ may be starting to get better but they are still a ways away from being take seriously. You are a Jays follower, ARZ keeping Stepan would be like the jays keeping Halladay during his best years, USELESS.

 

This is where we disagree. The Coyotes have had a horrible season as it relates to injuries and through all of it still have an outside shot at playoffs. Down their number 1 goalie, 2nd best Center, top 6 winger and one of their top 4 dmen on top of losing other pieces like Galchunyuk and Chykrun for large chunks of the season. They've had a really tough go of it but they are still competitive. Give them all those pieces and I think they'd be in the playoffs. 

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22 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

All nice things but that and 10 cents will get you a cup of coffee in ARZ. If BT packages off our 1st and some useful young players they should be willing to move him. BT has done deals with ARZ before so why can't you see a Division deal ?

 

Stone and Smith were players Chyaka was actively trying to move, Stepan isn't.

 

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15 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Look at his career maybe and try to understand the type of player effect he would have here playing with better players.

 

You would trade a 1st+ for a 13-assist guy... 

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9 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

You would trade a 1st+ for a 13-assist guy... 

That's over 55 games. If we should meet the Canucks in round 1 we could be out in 4 games and Stephan would have 1 assist.

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27 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This is where we disagree. The Coyotes have had a horrible season as it relates to injuries and through all of it still have an outside shot at playoffs. Down their number 1 goalie, 2nd best Center, top 6 winger and one of their top 4 dmen on top of losing other pieces like Galchunyuk and Chykrun for large chunks of the season. They've had a really tough go of it but they are still competitive. Give them all those pieces and I think they'd be in the playoffs. 

Maybe or maybe not, we are talking ARZ.

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14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

You would trade a 1st+ for a 13-assist guy... 

You know Peeps you are like carrying on a conversation with a 10 year old, where logic has no place.

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25 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Stone and Smith were players Chyaka was actively trying to move, Stepan isn't.

 

Well forget commenting then. The thread is about suggestions and I believe there could be a realistic deal here. If I am wrong it won't happen. Has Chyaka said publicly they are not willing to move Stepan ? if so show me.

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6 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

You know Peeps you are like carrying on a conversation with a 10 year old, where logic has no place.

 

Ok I should grow up then.

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12 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

That's over 55 games. If we should meet the Canucks in round 1 we could be out in 4 games and Stephan would have 1 assist.

 

Sure that's fine.  But not a 1st rounder + right?  That's not the kind of value we should be trading.  1st rounders need to be reserved for 1st liners.

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54 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

For me Backlund=Stepan. Both are very good two way centers but Stepan is the better play maker. I think Stepan is a really underrated player becuase he can't stay healthy but if he did, we'd appreciate him a lot more. 

 

I guess it depends on your angle. The reason I suggest that Stepan is a needle mover is I think a way the Flames can move the needle is by essentially created 2 2nd lines. I like Bennett and Neal and I think a legit top 6 center takes that lines to a 2nd line cablire. The Flames could roll one of the best lines in the NHL, one of the best shutdown lines in the league that still provides offence and a then a legit 2nd line that can get better O zone starts and take advantage of matchups.

 

That flexibility IMO does move the needle because it would make the Flames VERY hard to defend so that's why I say it moves the needle becuase I think it gives you something that make a different in winning. That can be 1 player, ala Stone, but I thikn it can also be by improving a situation. Adding someone like Stepan also should help the 2nd PP unit which I think also helps moves the needle.

 

Maybe it's not a question of whether or not Stepan is a needle mover but rather, how much of a needle mover?  And how much is he worth?

 

I don't think adding another Backlund does it for us.  We have a poor man's Backlund in Ryan already.  What moves the needle for us is an elite player.  

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We will have a hard time beating a few teams' offers for Stone or Panarin.  Even a slightly better pick from a team below us in the standings makes a difference.  We could be looking at a late 20's to 31 pick, which is not that great.  Unless we are including a decent roster player that interests OTT, plus some kind of prospect that could help them get out of the basement, they might not be interested in our deal.

 

I'm fine with going for the big fish, only if we plan on signing him.  Rental costs are insane.  Would be willing to offer Dube at the very least.  Frolik and Czarnik as well.  I personally think Stone would add so much that we wouldn't be missing Frolik so much.  He's a short term contract OTT could deal with.  Maybe even add Bennett to the mix, instead of someone previously mentioned.

 

1st + Bennett + Frolik + prospect (maybe Dube).

That would hurt a bit, but I think we could make some noise for several years.

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4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

What moves the needle for us is an elite player.  

I disagree with this.  We are a team who can start to add pieces to an already elite core.  A player like Stephan will definitely move the needle because he provides depth.  We don't need first line players... we need another guy to play on the second line.

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9 minutes ago, Sobieit said:

I disagree with this.  We are a team who can start to add pieces to an already elite core.  A player like Stephan will definitely move the needle because he provides depth.  We don't need first line players... we need another guy to play on the second line.

 

Basically what I'm proposing is adding 1st line elite player on the second line.  Like, Mark Stone or Panarin.

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9 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Basically what I'm proposing is adding 1st line elite player on the second line.  Like, Mark Stone or Panarin.

I was under the impression that after signing Tkachuk, we will be unable to afford expensive players like Panarin. If the idea is to have him for just this year, we would waste a high pick. Unfortunately, I doubt that we will be able to realistically trade Neal for value. I would love to get a guy like Panarin, but how do we afford it?

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15 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Basically what I'm proposing is adding 1st line elite player on the second line.  Like, Mark Stone or Panarin.

 

That's great in theory, but are you willing to give up our 2019 1st, Dube or Kylington and Bennett or Jankowski for Stone or Panarin. That's probably a starting point for either player and teams like Nashville or Winnipeg will be able to put together better packages than that.

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12 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I was under the impression that after signing Tkachuk, we will be unable to afford expensive players like Panarin. If the idea is to have him for just this year, we would waste a high pick. Unfortunately, I doubt that we will be able to realistically trade Neal for value. I would love to get a guy like Panarin, but how do we afford it?

 

It's a "Go for it" this year scenario.

 

It's unlikely we can trim Neal's contract off the roster this summer.  And Michael Stone needs to go too but also unlikely we can find a team interested in a player who has been on IR most of this season. BUT, if we can, then there's the money.

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30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Basically what I'm proposing is adding 1st line elite player on the second line.  Like, Mark Stone or Panarin.

Yea I understand that, so do I!  And I agree if you are going to pay the same price 10/10 would rather one of those guys.  The problem is going forward it will be difficult to keep everyone.  I think maybe if you value one of those three over someone we have then you make a deal.  

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