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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not really saying we get that much for Brodie, just what the value is for a top 2 D.  They aren't cheap.

For his warts, the Gio-Brodie pair was one of the best in the league.

If the value is there in a trade, pull the trigger.

I agree if some idiot GM sees that kind of value in Brodie go for it. I would take Nylander is a heartbeat. I just don't see Brodie having the perceived value some of you think he has presently.

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16 hours ago, MAC331 said:

You guys could be right but if we know Brodie's warts you can only guess some of the other teams scouting does as well. We don't even want him for our top 4 D so I would say you are over valuing him a tad. He definitely isn't going to get you Nylander LOL dream on. We will hopefully see a trade of him.

 

For all of our complaining of Brodie, he still averaged over 21mins a night, the 2nd most on the team. Just because the fans don't value him doesn't mean the league doesn't value him.

 

Top 4 defensemen carry a lot of value and if they can play in the top pairing they carry even more value.

 

I think a Brodie for J.T. Miller makes a lot of sense for both teams. Tampa needs some defense and Brodie gives them some cost certainty for next year, they have tons of forwards and can afford to lose Miller. Miller gives us some grit and a guy who can play all 3 forward positions. If we wanted to keep Lindholm on the top line Miller can center an effective 2nd line, or he can replace Lindholm on the top line and give that line some grit and someone to dig in the corners.

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16 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

For all of our complaining of Brodie, he still averaged over 21mins a night, the 2nd most on the team. Just because the fans don't value him doesn't mean the league doesn't value him.

 

Top 4 defensemen carry a lot of value and if they can play in the top pairing they carry even more value.

 

I think a Brodie for J.T. Miller makes a lot of sense for both teams. Tampa needs some defense and Brodie gives them some cost certainty for next year, they have tons of forwards and can afford to lose Miller. Miller gives us some grit and a guy who can play all 3 forward positions. If we wanted to keep Lindholm on the top line Miller can center an effective 2nd line, or he can replace Lindholm on the top line and give that line some grit and someone to dig in the corners.

No sense arguing Brodie's value between ourselves you have your thoughts, I have mine and all GM's do not think alike either. I picked the dumbest one I could think of in Bergevin because I think TB will sign back a few of their own. Also not sharing your thinking with JT Miller for us.

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2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I agree if some idiot GM sees that kind of value in Brodie go for it. I would take Nylander is a heartbeat. I just don't see Brodie having the perceived value some of you think he has presently.

An idiot GM trades Hall for Larsson.

Hall for Brodie would have been more reasonable.

The value I place on Brodie only is related to what a good top 2 D is worth.

Finding a trading partner is more about finding a team that needs that type of player.

Smooth skating puckmover.

Cheap cost-controlled contract for 2 years.

30+ points for 6 years in a row.

Able to play 20+ minutes every night.

 

He's exactly what EDM needed when they traded for Larsson and re-signed Russell.

It's one of the thing they lack the most.

 

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46 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

An idiot GM trades Hall for Larsson.

Hall for Brodie would have been more reasonable.

The value I place on Brodie only is related to what a good top 2 D is worth.

Finding a trading partner is more about finding a team that needs that type of player.

Smooth skating puckmover.

Cheap cost-controlled contract for 2 years.

30+ points for 6 years in a row.

Able to play 20+ minutes every night.

 

He's exactly what EDM needed when they traded for Larsson and re-signed Russell.

It's one of the thing they lack the most.

 

What are you going on about ? We weren't ever going to trade Brodie to EDM back then or even now. EDM did what they felt they had to do, start moving money and get some defensemen there. You can spend all the time you want second guessing what EDM does or pumping Brodie up in your own mind for a trade. You mention all the good things about him but leave out the bad and why we are trading him.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

An idiot GM trades Hall for Larsson.

Hall for Brodie would have been more reasonable.

The value I place on Brodie only is related to what a good top 2 D is worth.

Finding a trading partner is more about finding a team that needs that type of player.

Smooth skating puckmover.

Cheap cost-controlled contract for 2 years.

30+ points for 6 years in a row.

Able to play 20+ minutes every night.

 

He's exactly what EDM needed when they traded for Larsson and re-signed Russell.

It's one of the thing they lack the most.

 

Brodie only has 1 year left on his contract, which limits his value somewhat.  I think the best you can get is someone like Kapanen, and we might have to add a mid-round pick in that case.  Basically I think you look for someone who plays top 9, that either has potential to improve or at least ability to jump up the line up from time to time.

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18 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Brodie only has 1 year left on his contract, which limits his value somewhat.  I think the best you can get is someone like Kapanen, and we might have to add a mid-round pick in that case.  Basically I think you look for someone who plays top 9, that either has potential to improve or at least ability to jump up the line up from time to time.

 

Ya agreed.  

 

Brodie is cheap now but he's due for a raise (likely $5.5-mil range) and suddenly he's not that valuable in a trade.  If we can pick up someone like Kapanen, then that's a good trade for us.  Kapanen tops out as a second line RW which is what we need.

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1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

Brodie only has 1 year left on his contract, which limits his value somewhat.  I think the best you can get is someone like Kapanen, and we might have to add a mid-round pick in that case.  Basically I think you look for someone who plays top 9, that either has potential to improve or at least ability to jump up the line up from time to time.

Kapanen is the player I would target from TOR but I'm not sure Brodie at 4.5M is where they want to go. They also need low cost good Wingers which is why I would trade Mangiapane plus something to get Kapanen.

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2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Kapanen is the player I would target from TOR but I'm not sure Brodie at 4.5M is where they want to go. They also need low cost good Wingers which is why I would trade Mangiapane plus something to get Kapanen.

Possibly mang or Hathaway + Brodie?  Toronto is likely losing Gardiner this off season, and Brodie could be a decent replacement at a similar salary.  Their cap crunch will ease after next season when Marleau comes off the books, and they can then look to actually upgrade at that position.

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I don't think Brodie is a fit for Toronto. They are sticking with Babcock next year, and Babcock loves his lefty/righty pairings more than anyone. They are set on the left side with Rielly, Muzzin and Dermott. If they are going to move Nylander, Kapanen or Johnsson it will be for a true RHS D.

 

I think they target Carolina and their plethora of RHS D.

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7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I don't think Brodie is a fit for Toronto. They are sticking with Babcock next year, and Babcock loves his lefty/righty pairings more than anyone. They are set on the left side with Rielly, Muzzin and Dermott. If they are going to move Nylander, Kapanen or Johnsson it will be for a true RHS D.

 

I think they target Carolina and their plethora of RHS D.

 

Kapanen would do well in Carolina’s speed system. 

 

I wish we targeted him two years ago when I first suggested him. A lot on here thought he was trending bust. Toronto might not have been ready to part with him either. 

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28 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Possibly mang or Hathaway + Brodie?  Toronto is likely losing Gardiner this off season, and Brodie could be a decent replacement at a similar salary.  Their cap crunch will ease after next season when Marleau comes off the books, and they can then look to actually upgrade at that position.

True but I agree with JTECH that Brodie may not be a fit there. I would go as high as Mangiapane and our 2019 1st if that would get it done.

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17 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Kapanen would do well in Carolina’s speed system. 

 

I wish we targeted him two years ago when I first suggested him. A lot on here thought he was trending bust. Toronto might not have been ready to part with him either. 

 

If Kapanen downgrades from Matthews to Backlund, does Kapanen still trend into a 50-point guy?  We don't have a Matthews here.

 

I do like Kapanen but we need to check our expectations of him too.  He's probably a 35-point guy with Backlund.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

If Kapanen downgrades from Matthews to Backlund, does Kapanen still trend into a 50-point guy?  We don't have a Matthews here.

 

I do like Kapanen but we need to check our expectations of him too.  He's probably a 35-point guy with Backlund.

I'd agree with that.  I see him as a 2nd/3rd line winger, so I think offering things like 1st rounders is a bit over-valuing.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

If Kapanen downgrades from Matthews to Backlund, does Kapanen still trend into a 50-point guy?  We don't have a Matthews here.

 

I do like Kapanen but we need to check our expectations of him too.  He's probably a 35-point guy with Backlund.

 

I know. I never did place the expectations on him. I like his game more than anything. 

 

We expect Johnny to get roughly 70+ points, but he doesn’t bring other intangibles. The same goes for Monahan and with Monahan he doesn’t bring anything if he’s not scoring. That’s ok if they’re playing offensive minutes and playing on the right side of possession. 

 

I like the things Kapanen does away from the puck or the skating and energy he brings. I’d hope for 40points from him from the 3rd or 2nd line. If he was able to play the 1st line (in no way am I suggesting him to) then I’d expect around 50. 

 

So for me its his total game game and I am not saying he’s the perfect player. I think he’d bring just as much or more than say Jankowski and this year's version of James Neal. Janks is a C but still. I’d probably equate Kap with a Frolik.

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

If Kapanen downgrades from Matthews to Backlund, does Kapanen still trend into a 50-point guy?  We don't have a Matthews here.

 

I do like Kapanen but we need to check our expectations of him too.  He's probably a 35-point guy with Backlund.

Excellent point. If Kapanen doesn't have our guys opening ice up for him, is he honestly a 2nd line RW?

I'd say no, personally.

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5 hours ago, ABC923 said:

Brodie only has 1 year left on his contract, which limits his value somewhat.  I think the best you can get is someone like Kapanen, and we might have to add a mid-round pick in that case.  Basically I think you look for someone who plays top 9, that either has potential to improve or at least ability to jump up the line up from time to time.

 

My bad, I posted that after I had looked up his contract.  Yeah, the value is a bit less for a one year contract remaining.

You are seriously devaluating Brodie's value here.

What is a top 2 D-man worth these days.  Under 30, plays either side.

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10 hours ago, JTech780 said:

I think a Brodie for J.T. Miller makes a lot of sense for both teams. Tampa needs some defense and Brodie gives them some cost certainty for next year, they have tons of forwards and can afford to lose Miller. Miller gives us some grit and a guy who can play all 3 forward positions. If we wanted to keep Lindholm on the top line Miller can center an effective 2nd line, or he can replace Lindholm on the top line and give that line some grit and someone to dig in the corners.

Miller would have to be exposed in the expansion draft so yes I see Tampa wanting to get something for him.

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10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

The value I place on Brodie only is related to what a good top 2 D is worth.

Finding a trading partner is more about finding a team that needs that type of player.

Smooth skating puckmover.

Cheap cost-controlled contract for 1 more year.

30+ points for 6 years in a row.

Able to play 20+ minutes every night.

 

 

Well said. I’d argue that 30 other teams could use a seasoned defenseman with those qualities. I agree Brodie will be a valuable commodity, and that most teams will see the positive attributes outweigh the occasional brain cramps. 

 

I don’t think I’ve seen this name suggested before but Lebanc is an RFA in SJ. He’s listed as a LW/RW but played C on the Barrie Colts with Mangiapane on his wing and Andersson on D. He’s dynamic, smart, has a wicked shot, can score, is a RHS, and SJ might have some trouble signing him after this season. To me, Lebanc > Janko, and I’d preferably reunite him with Mangiapane - they had a combined 233 points in 60ish games with the Barrie Colts in 2015-2016 - and I only share this stat as an example of pre-existing chemistry. One of the things lacking in our bottom six is dynamic ability. I’d suggest Lebanc would be a savvy pickup and I don’t think we’ve seen his ceiling yet at the NHL level. 

 

Lastly, as much as I like Kapanen for his speed, effort, and drive, trading a first is too rich for my blood - same goes for any deal involving multiple players. He’s a good player, but he also got a bump on his stats thanks to playing with Matthews. He doesn’t create a lot for himself, but he goes to the right areas and he’s usually the beneficiary of someone else’s play. Not sure we have the right personnel to line him up with. 

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The Kapanen trade suggestion is a good one, imho.  Simply because of the youth we gain.

 

It's a thumbs up here.

 

But, I don't think it makes us better, it just buys us time and gets value back on expiring contracts.    We have holes on defence imho, despite everyone saying we're great on D, 50 shots against is not fantastic.  perimeter or Whatever.  Then again Brodie was never fantastic at filling those holes anyway.

 

It would be great to get an even higher quality player.   Not that I would be upset with this deal.  But I'd like a little more.  and we'd have to offer a package for that.   Now you start to get into overhaul territory, thus the thread.   But it also means you're not just getting younger, you're getting "better" too. in terms of quality

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11 hours ago, lou44291 said:

 

Well said. I’d argue that 30 other teams could use a seasoned defenseman with those qualities. I agree Brodie will be a valuable commodity, and that most teams will see the positive attributes outweigh the occasional brain cramps. 

 

I don’t think I’ve seen this name suggested before but Lebanc is an RFA in SJ. He’s listed as a LW/RW but played C on the Barrie Colts with Mangiapane on his wing and Andersson on D. He’s dynamic, smart, has a wicked shot, can score, is a RHS, and SJ might have some trouble signing him after this season. To me, Lebanc > Janko, and I’d preferably reunite him with Mangiapane - they had a combined 233 points in 60ish games with the Barrie Colts in 2015-2016 - and I only share this stat as an example of pre-existing chemistry. One of the things lacking in our bottom six is dynamic ability. I’d suggest Lebanc would be a savvy pickup and I don’t think we’ve seen his ceiling yet at the NHL level. 

 

Lastly, as much as I like Kapanen for his speed, effort, and drive, trading a first is too rich for my blood - same goes for any deal involving multiple players. He’s a good player, but he also got a bump on his stats thanks to playing with Matthews. He doesn’t create a lot for himself, but he goes to the right areas and he’s usually the beneficiary of someone else’s play. Not sure we have the right personnel to line him up with. 

The reality is we don't need to trade Brodie and it may very well not happen. If he isn't traded I think we need to pair up a veteran within each pairing and go like this.

Giordano, Andersson

Hanifin, Hamonic

Valimaki, Brodie

Keep Kylington, re-sign Fantenberg, trade Stone, release Prout or place him on a two way deal.

In regards to trying to land Kapanen in a trade maybe Mangiapane and a 1st is to much however he is another breakout player with the potential to play 2nd or 3rd line RW. First you have to win the deal because we will not be the only team offering up a deal for him. I also agree we need a better C for our 2nd line in order to ensure maximum potential for Kapanen. I don't believe that C has to be a Mathews calibre but someone with more offensive talent than Backlund. My preferences are Dzingel C/LW as a UFA or Schenn C in a trade with STL. Another suggested C is Kadri C should TOR decide to move him.

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10 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

The Kapanen trade suggestion is a good one, imho.  Simply because of the youth we gain.

 

It's a thumbs up here.

 

But, I don't think it makes us better, it just buys us time and gets value back on expiring contracts.    We have holes on defence imho, despite everyone saying we're great on D, 50 shots against is not fantastic.  perimeter or Whatever.  Then again Brodie was never fantastic at filling those holes anyway.

 

It would be great to get an even higher quality player.   Not that I would be upset with this deal.  But I'd like a little more.  and we'd have to offer a package for that.   Now you start to get into overhaul territory, thus the thread.   But it also means you're not just getting younger, you're getting "better" too. in terms of quality

 

I think we have to look at the playoffs as a one-off.  It was not a typical set of Flames games.  They were a combination of players not playing well.

Gio-Brodie was not even close to their usual.

Backlund's line was terrible.

The top line was ineffective.

 

I think we realistically have to trade Brodie for one simple reason.  We have to identify which of the D are considered core, and I don't think Brodie qualifies.  We could keep him for another year, but what does that get you.  Have to pay more to re-sign him or trade him with shrinking value.

If we make that trade now and not fall apart, then we should do it to upgrade elsewhere.  Need a starter/1a/1b goalie.  Need a top 6 RW.  Other holes, but not as glaring.  

 

I don't think we are desperate to rebuild the lineup.  You don't place #2 in the NHL by being a mess.

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Guys like Brodie, Prout, Stone, Frolik, Neal and even Hathaway may simply be victims of cap space, team fit or being bypassed by younger guys making them available for trade.

 

Brodie and Frolik will be easy to trade, it is just a matter of figuring out the return and the trading partner. Prout and Hathaway could easily be lost to UFA simply due to lack of space or the need to make space for young guys who are ready (see Dube).  Stone, more difficult to trade but he has been passed by Andersson and Hamonic plays a more D stable game. Neal simply doesn't fit, so to help work the cap, we either need to trade him or bring in players to work with him more directly. That would likely mean moving out either Backlund or Monahan to give him the center he needs.

 

It is not that Brodie needs to move, but as others have said, Brodie carries value in the league right now, trade him while you can.

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11 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

Guys like Brodie, Prout, Stone, Frolik, Neal and even Hathaway may simply be victims of cap space, team fit or being bypassed by younger guys making them available for trade.

 

Brodie and Frolik will be easy to trade, it is just a matter of figuring out the return and the trading partner. Prout and Hathaway could easily be lost to UFA simply due to lack of space or the need to make space for young guys who are ready (see Dube).  Stone, more difficult to trade but he has been passed by Andersson and Hamonic plays a more D stable game. Neal simply doesn't fit, so to help work the cap, we either need to trade him or bring in players to work with him more directly. That would likely mean moving out either Backlund or Monahan to give him the center he needs.

 

It is not that Brodie needs to move, but as others have said, Brodie carries value in the league right now, trade him while you can.

If all we did was trade Neal, Frolik and Brodie, I believe BT could work the changes the roster needs in order to be improved. I don't think they should mess around with hoping for a bounceback season from Neal because I just don't see him ever fitting in with Peters. Frolik good or bad has become expensive help because 3rd line costs need to be lowered. Brodie I won't say has been totally replaced by Andersson however with a full season with Giordano I think we progress as a team. If you trade Brodie it becomes less essential to trade Stone.

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12 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

If all we did was trade Neal, Frolik and Brodie, I believe BT could work the changes the roster needs in order to be improved. I don't think they should mess around with hoping for a bounceback season from Neal because I just don't see him ever fitting in with Peters. Frolik good or bad has become expensive help because 3rd line costs need to be lowered. Brodie I won't say has been totally replaced by Andersson however with a full season with Giordano I think we progress as a team. If you trade Brodie it becomes less essential to trade Stone.

 

If all we did was trade Neal, Frolik, and Brodie, then that's addition by subtraction.

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