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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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The more I see him play, the more I think BT was trying to trade the wrong player at TDL.

Frolik, like Gio, is a player that commits to fitness.  

He doesn;t take games off.

He's so underrated that I doubt we even get close to the value for him.

Although Brodie has a spot in the top pair, I think we would miss Frolik more.

Maybe designing a line with Frolik-Bennett-Neal has some merit.

Still trade Brodie for a RHS top 6 player.

 

Trade Janko and Brodie.  Move Bennett to C or trade him for a RHS C.  He has to do more than just try to go through the entire team on offense.  No issues with his defensive play, though.  Trade one of Czarnik or Hathaway.  

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9 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

would have liked to see what he could do with more minutes.  I'll say this, he was better than most.

                                       They continued to give Gaudreau, Monahan the PP and key scoring minutes.  Coach could not adapt to the new reallity.

                                        Not that it mattered, when we got smoked that bad.

 

Tkachuk actually played as much as any of those guys, except for one game where he had 16 minutes of penalties.  He played a mere 11 minutes that game.  Unfortunately, Tkachuk was tasked with Backlund to shut down McKinnon.  That didn't go so well.

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Personally I would keep Czarnik.  Highly underutilized last year, if he was given a regular shift this season it could really help our forward depth.  

 

I've seen some suggestions around the web that we trade Bennett.  While he probably isn't top 6 material, he's one of the only guys who upped his game for the playoffs.  On a team where the give-a-crap meter was lacking in the playoffs, we can't afford to lose one of the only guys who brought it this year when it counted most.

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5 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Personally I would keep Czarnik.  Highly underutilized last year, if he was given a regular shift this season it could really help our forward depth.  

 

I've seen some suggestions around the web that we trade Bennett.  While he probably isn't top 6 material, he's one of the only guys who upped his game for the playoffs.  On a team where the give-a-crap meter was lacking in the playoffs, we can't afford to lose one of the only guys who brought it this year when it counted most.

 

I wouldn't trade Bennett unless we get an overpayment.

 

I do agree with Czarnik.  I think he's one of those players we need to help us get into the playoffs but once in, then we need the Bennett's to take over.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Tkachuk actually played as much as any of those guys, except for one game where he had 16 minutes of penalties.  He played a mere 11 minutes that game.  Unfortunately, Tkachuk was tasked with Backlund to shut down McKinnon.  That didn't go so well.

 

ok good point.   Well, when he was given top line minutes, which wasn't often, I thought he did well.

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7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

The more I see him play, the more I think BT was trying to trade the wrong player at TDL.

Frolik, like Gio, is a player that commits to fitness.  

He doesn;t take games off.

He's so underrated that I doubt we even get close to the value for him.

Totally agree I watched nearly every game last year and saw Frolik was one of the few that gave his all. Geo Hammonic Gaudreau Mangiapane Hathaway Lindholm were in this top effort close to every game. Towards the end you could see Ryan Anderson Bennett starting to come around. Glimpses of effort from Monahan Tkachuk Backlund.  We are going no where until we are an all in every game team.  

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Looking around at teams as potential trade partners, it's tough to find a fit for a Brodie trade, that could address either a top 6 wing hole or a top 9 C. Could just trade him for picks, but I doubt BT wants to do that. Also worth remembering he has an 8 team NTC so while I would do a Tierney for Brodie deal, I doubt TJ approves that deal.

 

Potential fits for a Brodie trade

  • ANA- He could play alongside Lindholm on their 2nd pair, however I'm unsure what ANA is trying to do, rebuild or be competitive. I would try to get Kase. They'd probably try to get us to take Henrique though which I'm not sure if I want to take that contract
  • MTL- Brodie could be a good fit alongside Weber, I'd like Danault, but the Habs love their Quebec boys so I'm not sure if Bergevin would pull the trigger on that
  • NJ- Devils will need to be competitive this year to entice Hall to stay, they don't have a ton that's appealing to me but I would ask for Coleman. He brings a physical element that the Flames lack.
  • DAL- Brodie fills a need for them but DAL doesn't have much of interest to me, Faksa maybe, but evn then he's "meh"
  • BUF- they need all the help they could get, but they don't have anything of much interest to me

 

Other teams I would target for C help would be the Leafs, Kadri would be at the top of my wish list but I doubt that's realistic.

 

I would also ask Vegas about Haula. He's coming off a horrific injury so his value can't be super high, maybe a 3rd would be fair, VGK needs to clear cap too. Worth noting he was Neal's centre, since we are stuck with Neal could be worth adding a guy who was able to get the best out of him

 

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On 5/11/2019 at 2:46 PM, ABC923 said:

Personally I would keep Czarnik.  Highly underutilized last year, if he was given a regular shift this season it could really help our forward depth.  

 

I've seen some suggestions around the web that we trade Bennett.  While he probably isn't top 6 material, he's one of the only guys who upped his game for the playoffs.  On a team where the give-a-crap meter was lacking in the playoffs, we can't afford to lose one of the only guys who brought it this year when it counted most.

 

I look at his fit over the last 3 years and can't seem to find it.  While he upped his game, he wasn;t anything special 5v5.  He hit, played well defensively, but didn;t really add offense.  It's hard to gauge his value further in the playoffs because we needed to score to get there.  We didn't.  If he has value to another team (like ANA), I would try to make that trade now.  Kase for Bennett.  They get a player that matches ther team, we get a RW that can play top 6.  

 

I would not trade Bennett for a 28 year old or older player, unless he was special.  That isn;t happening.

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On ‎2019‎-‎05‎-‎11 at 2:46 PM, ABC923 said:

Personally I would keep Czarnik.  Highly underutilized last year, if he was given a regular shift this season it could really help our forward depth.  

 

I've seen some suggestions around the web that we trade Bennett.  While he probably isn't top 6 material, he's one of the only guys who upped his game for the playoffs.  On a team where the give-a-crap meter was lacking in the playoffs, we can't afford to lose one of the only guys who brought it this year when it counted most.

The question for me is has Bennett learned anything to help his offensive game these past few seasons. The rest of his game has elevated and as a team need more like him not less. Is he a LW, RW or could he go back to C ? Peters needs to get a handle on where and how best to use Bennett next season. I honestly think unless Peters is going to use these smaller players like Mangiapane and Czarnik as 3rd line Wingers we should trade them. Both are a waste on the 4th line where we need more size and attitude.

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Bennett isn't going to drive offense by himself like say a Tkachuk or Lindholm or Gaudreau. That being said he could a complimentary offensive piece. The problem I see is that he really hasn't been given the greatest of linemates outside of his rookie season.

 

This past season he was stuck with Jankowski and Neal for most of the season.

 

At this point I think we need to try at RW on one of the top 2 lines for a prolonged period of time to see if he can contribute more offensively. He produced pretty similar numbers to Frolik 5v5, despite having 2 boat anchors for linemates most of the season.

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13 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Bennett isn't going to drive offense by himself like say a Tkachuk or Lindholm or Gaudreau. That being said he could a complimentary offensive piece. The problem I see is that he really hasn't been given the greatest of linemates outside of his rookie season.

 

This past season he was stuck with Jankowski and Neal for most of the season.

 

At this point I think we need to try at RW on one of the top 2 lines for a prolonged period of time to see if he can contribute more offensively. He produced pretty similar numbers to Frolik 5v5, despite having 2 boat anchors for linemates most of the season.

 

Although, I don’t even think Tkachuk drives offence, he’s a great compliment to Gaudreau on the PP. Tkachuk is good at being in the right spots. He gets there, then gets the puck and knows what to do with it.

 

Tkachuk needs someone to bring it up ice then dish to him which I think Backlund is good at. Backlund also doesn’t finish very well when he gets it back. He loves to miss the net, or hit the logo, but so do a lot of other Flames players. 

 

I am not saying Backs is the answer, but he drives the line but just isn’t good at finishing. Tkachuk helps elevate it to the next level. 

 

Bennett looked more comfortable with Monahan and Gaudreau in the playoffs this last go around. Something I wonder is if trying him for so few games or even only partially in games, does he get to play to his potential or is he worried he will be taken off if he doesn’t do well enough? I say let him get comfortable in his skin on a line. He’s shuffled so much that he’s not able to grow with a line. He might not be a driver on a line, but he also hasn’t been with players who drive play either. I get he got chances with Gaudreau but they’ve only tried him there when it matters most, and that doesn’t allow for a long enough experiment.

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3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Although, I don’t even think Tkachuk drives offence, he’s a great compliment to Gaudreau on the PP. Tkachuk is good at being in the right spots. He gets there, then gets the puck and knows what to do with it.

 

Tkachuk needs someone to bring it up ice then dish to him which I think Backlund is good at. Backlund also doesn’t finish very well when he gets it back. He loves to miss the net, or hit the logo, but so do a lot of other Flames players. 

 

I am not saying Backs is the answer, but he drives the line but just isn’t good at finishing. Tkachuk helps elevate it to the next level. 

 

Bennett looked more comfortable with Monahan and Gaudreau in the playoffs this last go around. Something I wonder is if trying him for so few games or even only partially in games, does he get to play to his potential or is he worried he will be taken off if he doesn’t do well enough? I say let him get comfortable in his skin on a line. He’s shuffled so much that he’s not able to grow with a line. He might not be a driver on a line, but he also hasn’t been with players who drive play either. I get he got chances with Gaudreau but they’ve only tried him there when it matters most, and that doesn’t allow for a long enough experiment.

I would like to see a few different looks to the top 6.

Gaudreau, Bennett, Tkachuk

Both Gaudreau and Bennett are good at bringing the puck up the ice and into the O zone. Like you alluded to Tkachuk knows what to do with puck once its on his stick. These two can also make up for Tkachuk's average skating.

Mangiapane, Monahan, Lindholm

As much as I would like to see Monahan switched out of C to LW I did think it will happen. If Mangiapane remains this is where I think he belongs with two players that know what to do with the puck. Mangiapane and Lindholm should be able to cover off Monahan's defensive deficiencies . All 3 know how to score and two of the 3 are good passers.

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4 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Bennett isn't going to drive offense by himself like say a Tkachuk or Lindholm or Gaudreau. That being said he could a complimentary offensive piece. The problem I see is that he really hasn't been given the greatest of linemates outside of his rookie season.

 

This past season he was stuck with Jankowski and Neal for most of the season.

 

At this point I think we need to try at RW on one of the top 2 lines for a prolonged period of time to see if he can contribute more offensively. He produced pretty similar numbers to Frolik 5v5, despite having 2 boat anchors for linemates most of the season.

 

If we are keeping Bennett as a minor goal-scorer, a defensive/gritty player, and a guy to add snarl to your playoff team, we need to move Backlund to his line and find Tkachuk some mates to turn it into a scoring line.  Have Bennett-Backlund-?? as a shutdown 3rd line. 

 

So, if we remove the defense-first role from the 2nd line, we can have a top 9 like this:

JH-Monahan-Zucker

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Neal 

Bennett-Backlund-??

 

Alternative is to play Neal according to the role they first envisioned:

JH-Monahan-Neal

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Zucker 

Bennett-Backlund-??

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7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If we are keeping Bennett as a minor goal-scorer, a defensive/gritty player, and a guy to add snarl to your playoff team, we need to move Backlund to his line and find Tkachuk some mates to turn it into a scoring line.  Have Bennett-Backlund-?? as a shutdown 3rd line. 

 

So, if we remove the defense-first role from the 2nd line, we can have a top 9 like this:

JH-Monahan-Zucker

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Neal 

Bennett-Backlund-??

 

Alternative is to play Neal according to the role they first envisioned:

JH-Monahan-Neal

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Zucker 

Bennett-Backlund-??

 

I just don't think you can put Neal with either Monahan or Tkachuk. Neal needs to be with two guys who can skate. Heck Neal with Mangiapane and Ryan might be the best fit.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

I just don't think you can put Neal with either Monahan or Tkachuk. Neal needs to be with two guys who can skate. Heck Neal with Mangiapane and Ryan might be the best fit.

Neal needs to be traded

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16 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Neal needs to be traded

 

Easier said than done.

 

The most recent trade suggestion I heard for Neal was Andrew Ladd from the Islanders. We would be better off holding onto Neal in that scenario.

 

I like the idea of Wennberg for Neal, but I think it's still a long shot.

 

Basically it has to be a bad contract for bad contract situation.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Easier said than done.

 

The most recent trade suggestion I heard for Neal was Andrew Ladd from the Islanders. We would be better off holding onto Neal in that scenario.

 

I like the idea of Wennberg for Neal, but I think it's still a long shot.

 

Basically it has to be a bad contract for bad contract situation.

I don't think so but we will see what happens.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Easier said than done.

 

The most recent trade suggestion I heard for Neal was Andrew Ladd from the Islanders. We would be better off holding onto Neal in that scenario.

 

I like the idea of Wennberg for Neal, but I think it's still a long shot.

 

Basically it has to be a bad contract for bad contract situation.

 

Thats it, but there have been instances where other teams could be interested.

 

like you said, we might have to take on an LTIR contract. I forget, can we start over the cap if the LTIR will never play in the season? The Flames can afford to pay them, just not be over the cap.

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1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think so but we will see what happens.

 

I am kind of with you on this, I think he didn’t do us any favours but he also wasn’t a fit either on any lines.

 

maybe even a team like Carolina could be a fit player-wise, just not financially considering the owners are cheap. But they’re a fast team and he can be a good clean up guy. 

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5 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think so but we will see what happens.

 

I hope you are right.

 

I just have a hard time seeing anyone taking a soon to be 32 year old, who is making $5.75m for 4 more seasons, coming off a 7 goal 19 point season. Just have to hope other teams weren't scouting us too much, because they would seen a guy who can't keep up with the play, and his hands and shot have failed him.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Thats it, but there have been instances where other teams could be interested.

 

like you said, we might have to take on an LTIR contract. I forget, can we start over the cap if the LTIR will never play in the season? The Flames can afford to pay them, just not be over the cap.

 

You have to be cap compliant on day 1 of the season including LTIR. Day 2 you can put guys on LTIR

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IMO the best chance of getting Neal off the books would be to hope for a compliance buyout if there’s yet another lockout at the end of this CBA.

 

We joke about the Lucic contract but we are in a a very similar spot, just lucky we didn’t give him an NMC. 

 

I reallt liked the suggestion of  a Mangiapane-Ryan-Neal line, unless Ryan falls off a cliff next season that should be a line that could have Neal in the 30 point neighbourhood which would be an awesome bounce back given how bad his first season was 

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I am not a fan of trading or moving Bennett to center.. He is a perfect fit for third line left winger.. I think Dube is our next player to take over the center spot on that line and I'd move Hathaway to the right side of that line.. That leaves Backlund as either our offensive second line center with Tkachuk or gaudreau . or trade him..   jankowski/neal/frolik. brodie are tradeable for our

four

holes// .. Top 2 line right winger.. Top 2 line offensive right handed center.. and a rhs veteran dman to play with Valimaki.. The net is a issue all on it's own. I'd not sign Smith as his reaction time.. high glove aide is porous at best

 

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5 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I just don't think you can put Neal with either Monahan or Tkachuk. Neal needs to be with two guys who can skate. Heck Neal with Mangiapane and Ryan might be the best fit.

Maybe, but we seem to be stuck on Bennett and Janko.  

Janko should be fast, but he slows the game down.

Bennett is not fast, so in this case I agree he's not being used right.

 

I find it weird that you say he needs to play with speed, but JH is rather fast.  Monahan is nether fast nor slow.  

Pair him with JH and Monahan, with Neal as the trailer?

That's were he got a lot of goals from, right?

 

Anyway, I think it's a waste to play Neal less than 15 minutes.  Unless he is gassed, he should be able to easily.

I just think we need to rethink the top 9.

Hard to tell how effective he could be unless we try him longer than a game.

Or, we trade for Haula.

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2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Maybe, but we seem to be stuck on Bennett and Janko.  

Janko should be fast, but he slows the game down.

Bennett is not fast, so in this case I agree he's not being used right.

 

I find it weird that you say he needs to play with speed, but JH is rather fast.  Monahan is nether fast nor slow.  

Pair him with JH and Monahan, with Neal as the trailer?

That's were he got a lot of goals from, right?

 

Anyway, I think it's a waste to play Neal less than 15 minutes.  Unless he is gassed, he should be able to easily.

I just think we need to rethink the top 9.

Hard to tell how effective he could be unless we try him longer than a game.

Or, we trade for Haula.

 

See I think Monahan is slow, he just makes up for it with smarts.

 

Bennett is probably 2nd best after Gaudreau at zone entries. I think he is one of the quicker skaters on the team.

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