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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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Lucic’s contract is still much worse for one simple reason; most of his salary is in signing bonuses, which makes him virtually buy-out proof.  If the oilers bought him out, they would save about 2.3 million this year, 375,000 next year, 1.9 million the year after, and 375,000 the year after that.  Then he counts 625k against the cap for another four years, so in two of the four remaining seasons the cap savings are smaller than the later cap hits down the line.

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17 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I hope you are right.

 

I just have a hard time seeing anyone taking a soon to be 32 year old, who is making $5.75m for 4 more seasons, coming off a 7 goal 19 point season. Just have to hope other teams weren't scouting us too much, because they would seen a guy who can't keep up with the play, and his hands and shot have failed him.

 

 

Listen, we all know Neal had a terrible season but his track record speaks for itself and GMs around the League know his value. regardless of what you think or other naysayers Neal's experience, leadership and abilities have value. How Peter's chose to use him here led to how the results turned out, give Neal different circumstances and you likely get a much better result, yes even at the ancient age of 32. Think what you want I think you will be WRONG.

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The Flames top 6 lacks guys that can retrieve pucks and initiate forchecks with speed so they have to possess the puck into the zone every time and can’t be a dump and chase team. Colorado exploited this in the playoffs.

One of the strengths of Sam Bennett’s game is he can carry the puck around you or he can dump it in and still go get it, he can retrieve pucks very well IMO. 

 

They’ve already got one of the answers to their questions in house. Just need to commit to him that’s what they see for him and stop jerking around. There is no reason Bennett can be what Ferland was for the top 6, if not an upgrade. I would be telling Bennett he’s coming back as a top 6 forward so train your Hash Rate off because it’s happening. 

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10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

The Flames top 6 lacks guys that can retrieve pucks and initiate forchecks with speed so they have to possess the puck into the zone every time and can’t be a dump and chase team. Colorado exploited this in the playoffs.

One of the strengths of Sam Bennett’s game is he can carry the puck around you or he can dump it in and still go get it, he can retrieve pucks very well IMO. 

 

They’ve already got one of the answers to their questions in house. Just need to commit to him that’s what they see for him and stop jerking around. There is no reason Bennett can be what Ferland was for the top 6, if not an upgrade. I would be telling Bennett he’s coming back as a top 6 forward so train your Hash Rate off because it’s happening. 

I hope you are right on with your thinking however I want Bennett as a C not a RW with Monahan and Gaudreau. I would rather see a line of Gaudreau, Bennett, Tkachuk. If they are unwilling to move Monahan from C maybe the thinking should be another speedy LW for him and Lindholm, perhaps this Wennberg if we could get him from CBJ for Neal. I know Wennberg is currently a C but maybe a move to LW works. This keeps Monahan with two speedy wingers that also play solid defense.

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8 minutes ago, cross16 said:

The Flames top 6 lacks guys that can retrieve pucks and initiate forchecks with speed so they have to possess the puck into the zone every time and can’t be a dump and chase team. Colorado exploited this in the playoffs.

One of the strengths of Sam Bennett’s game is he can carry the puck around you or he can dump it in and still go get it, he can retrieve pucks very well IMO. 

 

They’ve already got one of the answers to their questions in house. Just need to commit to him that’s what they see for him and stop jerking around. There is no reason Bennett can be what Ferland was for the top 6, if not an upgrade. I would be telling Bennett he’s coming back as a top 6 forward so train your Hash Rate off because it’s happening. 

 

Hopefully Bennett stays on the LW.

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If trade talks with the Wild were to resume again next month, I wonder if BT could make it a slightly larger deal.

 

We know the framework was, Frolik, pick for Zucker

 

I think Fenton is intent on re-tooling the Wild, maybe we could get Pateryn for them to play 3rd pair RD.

 

CGY sends

Frolik

2019 1st

Kylington

Stone

 

MIN sends 

Zucker

Pateryn

 

I think the Wild could potentially be willing to take Stone if it meant receiving Kylington, who I don’t really think has much of a future here unless they want to play him on the right side, which I doubt 

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2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

If trade talks with the Wild were to resume again next month, I wonder if BT could make it a slightly larger deal.

 

We know the framework was, Frolik, pick for Zucker

 

I think Fenton is intent on re-tooling the Wild, maybe we could get Pateryn for them to play 3rd pair RD.

 

CGY sends

Frolik

2019 1st

Kylington

Stone

 

MIN sends 

Zucker

Pateryn

 

I think the Wild could potentially be willing to take Stone if it meant receiving Kylington, who I don’t really think has much of a future here unless they want to play him on the right side, which I doubt 

 

Frolik for Greenway.  Straight up.

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I agree with your assessment of Bennett Cross, so my question is: What are we not seeing that the coaches are seeing to keep him from playing that top 6 role?

 

There has to be a reason why he gets limited ice time and is not put in a position to succeed. Is it a lack of confidence in his offensive abilities? Is he inconsistent? Effort / attitude during practices? Do the coaches just want him to focus more on defence due to a log jam in the top 6? Do they just not see a fit for him with other players on the team?

 

I don't know the answer. But in my opinion the Flames don't have issues with chemistry. Certain players do very well together. Monahan and Gaudreau. Lindholm fit well with them to start the season for sure. I think Lindholm is the type of player who can find chemistry with almost anyone. Backlund and Frolik have great chemistry. What I do believe is that regardless of chemistry, the Flames have fit issues. I see fit and chemistry as 2 different things. Chemistry is the ability to read each other, know where the other player will be and what they will be doing. Chemistry is great when you are playing open hockey and there are obvious openings to be successful in. Fit is needed when things are going tough and you need to make things happen.  Flames have always had groups with chemistry but for years have struggled with the fit for many players. 

 

Bennett has not found anyone he really has chemistry with and has not been utilized as a fit player for any line. We all think he should be tried in various roles and allowed to grow with a line, but without any natural chemistry, while other players just get it, it is hard to move people away from that chemistry to try and force fit a player.

 

I wil say again that Neal is in a similar boat. HE was supposed to be in for top line RW but the chemistry Lindholm had there was too much to pass up. Same with the 3M line so Neal was relegated to 3rd line. He doesn't fit with a Backlund (Possession C) or Monahan (Natural Sniper, too similar to Neal) type centers anyways. I think Bennett and Neal could be a good fit, if they had a fast, pass first player to join their line. 

 

The DAG line showed a lot of promise towards the end of the season with chemistry and fit. I would prefer Mang to play higher up the lineup to really use his offence, but time will tell.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Frolik for Greenway.  Straight up.

I like it, the only issue would be giving up a RW for LW. That and getting rid of a player that gives you 110% all the time (off season included). Both shoot left but Greenway is still young so maybe he could learn.

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Just now, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I like it, the only issue would be giving up a RW for LW. That and getting rid of a player that gives you 110% all the time (off season included). Both shoot left but Greenway is still young so maybe he could learn.

 

No.  Let's try Gaudreau for Marner.  Move a LW for a RW.

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2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

No.  Let's try Gaudreau for Marner.  Move a LW for a RW.

I don't think Marner is going anywhere. Projected salary is 11+ mil?  Add the fact of offer sheet compensation is something like 3 first rounders I think the list of eligible suitors will be slim.  Unless a high pick team makes an offer TO will sacrifice their defense for Marner.

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Gaudreau makes sense for the Leafs who don't have a stud LW and also lower cap hit.  It allows the Leafs to keep Gardiner or go after a big name D via UFA.

 

Marner is younger.  Can play C/RW.  Is a better #1 C than Monahan who slides into 2nd line C.  Marner has a history of success with Tkachuk who will reunite and form a new #1 line.  

 

Tkachuk - Marner - X

X - Monahan - Lindholm

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13 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I don't think Marner is going anywhere. Projected salary is 11+ mil?  Add the fact of offer sheet compensation is something like 3 first rounders I think the list of eligible suitors will be slim.  Unless a high pick team makes an offer TO will sacrifice their defense for Marner.

 

The offer sheet compensation for Marner would be 4 1st rounders.

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24 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I don't think Marner is going anywhere. Projected salary is 11+ mil?  Add the fact of offer sheet compensation is something like 3 first rounders I think the list of eligible suitors will be slim.  Unless a high pick team makes an offer TO will sacrifice their defense for Marner.

 

Are u saying Marner is too expensive for the Flames?

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55 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

If trade talks with the Wild were to resume again next month, I wonder if BT could make it a slightly larger deal.

 

We know the framework was, Frolik, pick for Zucker

 

I think Fenton is intent on re-tooling the Wild, maybe we could get Pateryn for them to play 3rd pair RD.

 

CGY sends

Frolik

2019 1st

Kylington

Stone

 

MIN sends 

Zucker

Pateryn

 

I think the Wild could potentially be willing to take Stone if it meant receiving Kylington, who I don’t really think has much of a future here unless they want to play him on the right side, which I doubt 

I think if MIN reflects on where they are after all their moves at the TDL they keep Zucker, maybe that was their decision back then as well.

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1 hour ago, bosn111 said:

I agree with your assessment of Bennett Cross, so my question is: What are we not seeing that the coaches are seeing to keep him from playing that top 6 role?

 

There has to be a reason why he gets limited ice time and is not put in a position to succeed. Is it a lack of confidence in his offensive abilities? Is he inconsistent? Effort / attitude during practices? Do the coaches just want him to focus more on defence due to a log jam in the top 6? Do they just not see a fit for him with other players on the team?

 

I don't know the answer. But in my opinion the Flames don't have issues with chemistry. Certain players do very well together. Monahan and Gaudreau. Lindholm fit well with them to start the season for sure. I think Lindholm is the type of player who can find chemistry with almost anyone. Backlund and Frolik have great chemistry. What I do believe is that regardless of chemistry, the Flames have fit issues. I see fit and chemistry as 2 different things. Chemistry is the ability to read each other, know where the other player will be and what they will be doing. Chemistry is great when you are playing open hockey and there are obvious openings to be successful in. Fit is needed when things are going tough and you need to make things happen.  Flames have always had groups with chemistry but for years have struggled with the fit for many players. 

 

Bennett has not found anyone he really has chemistry with and has not been utilized as a fit player for any line. We all think he should be tried in various roles and allowed to grow with a line, but without any natural chemistry, while other players just get it, it is hard to move people away from that chemistry to try and force fit a player.

 

I wil say again that Neal is in a similar boat. HE was supposed to be in for top line RW but the chemistry Lindholm had there was too much to pass up. Same with the 3M line so Neal was relegated to 3rd line. He doesn't fit with a Backlund (Possession C) or Monahan (Natural Sniper, too similar to Neal) type centers anyways. I think Bennett and Neal could be a good fit, if they had a fast, pass first player to join their line. 

 

The DAG line showed a lot of promise towards the end of the season with chemistry and fit. I would prefer Mang to play higher up the lineup to really use his offence, but time will tell.

 

 

To be honest I think Bennett himself became confused with all the movement he experienced. One thing I will say is what worked for him in Jr was never going to work in the NHL for him. The one thing he has not lost as evidenced this past season is his compete level. He did well in his first season playing LW and learning from Backlund and Frolik then in came Tkachuk. Bennett became priority #3 after that and never had any decent line mates to work with on a 3rd line. There is no arguing during the process he lost some confidence and his scoring touch. This past season we saw a very determined Sam Bennett maybe even a desperate Sam Bennett but I have no doubts he wants to be a top 6 player and get paid like one. He needs line mates that can match his intensity and those two players IMO are Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I have said this before if these two can't help Bennett get his scoring touch back nobody can.

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12 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

To be honest I think Bennett himself became confused with all the movement he experienced. One thing I will say is what worked for him in Jr was never going to work in the NHL for him. The one thing he has not lost as evidenced this past season is his compete level. He did well in his first season playing LW and learning from Backlund and Frolik then in came Tkachuk. Bennett became priority #3 after that and never had any decent line mates to work with on a 3rd line. There is no arguing during the process he lost some confidence and his scoring touch. This past season we saw a very determined Sam Bennett maybe even a desperate Sam Bennett but I have no doubts he wants to be a top 6 player and get paid like one. He needs line mates that can match his intensity and those two players IMO are Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I have said this before if these two can't help Bennett get his scoring touch back nobody can.

I like Chucky but unless he has line mates that are defensively responsible, he is not 1st line material. Bennett is not nor will he ever be converted back to Center. Now a 1st line of Bennett Lindholm Chucky or JG Monahan Bennett could work. Personally I would go after a top 6 RW and be done with it. We need to restructure the lineup for sure. 

As I mentioned before small and skilled are not going to win you a playoff series unless you have large physical and fast to get the puck. We have to many players that are not physically engaged or simply can not be physically engaged, Czarniuk, Mags, Brodie, Monahan, Kylington, Hanifin, Janko, Ryan ,JG, Dube and Frohlick. Need to upgrade the others. In all reality having 4th line with 2 smaller players  is not acceptable. Love him or hate Burke is still right yu can not get out of the west unless you have a larger team that can play fast, skilled and physical. 

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10 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I like Chucky but unless he has line mates that are defensively responsible, he is not 1st line material. Bennett is not nor will he ever be converted back to Center. Now a 1st line of Bennett Lindholm Chucky or JG Monahan Bennett could work. Personally I would go after a top 6 RW and be done with it. We need to restructure the lineup for sure. 

As I mentioned before small and skilled are not going to win you a playoff series unless you have large physical and fast to get the puck. We have to many players that are not physically engaged or simply can not be physically engaged, Czarniuk, Mags, Brodie, Monahan, Kylington, Hanifin, Janko, Ryan ,JG, Dube and Frohlick. Need to upgrade the others. In all reality having 4th line with 2 smaller players  is not acceptable. Love him or hate Burke is still right yu can not get out of the west unless you have a larger team that can play fast, skilled and physical. 

I struggle with the shifting around of talent to get the right chemistry mix. Gaudreau has a high compete level that some don't notice but I think we all wish Monahan was more like Bennett with his play. I differ a bit from your thoughts because I would rather see Monahan pushed over to LW on a 2nd line and a better C. I like Lindholm on RW. I believe Monahan on LW could be more of a Laine sniper for us. What are your thoughts about this Wennberg C from CBJ if we could get him for Neal.

Gaudreau, Bennett, Tkachuk

Monahan, Wennberg, Lindholm ( two Swedes together)

I do agree with the getting bigger, faster and more talented. We definitely need some tougher to play against defensemen.

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1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I think if MIN reflects on where they are after all their moves at the TDL they keep Zucker, maybe that was their decision back then as well.

Reading some of the Wild reporters, sounds like Fenton has been looking to move Zucker for a while. I doubt we get him though as there will be more teams in the mix for him at the draft than there was at the TDL

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18 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

What are your thoughts about this Wennberg C from CBJ if we could get him for Neal.

 

Let's do this.  We may have to add since Wennberg is younger and logic says has more potential to regain his former self.

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14 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Reading some of the Wild reporters, sounds like Fenton has been looking to move Zucker for a while. I doubt we get him though as there will be more teams in the mix for him at the draft than there was at the TDL

I would think such a move for Zucker from the Flames would require Neal and Frolik to be moved out. He is a good player on a good contract which is why I questioned MIN wanting to move him.

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2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Let's do this.  We may have to add since Wennberg is younger and logic says has more potential to regain his former self.

CBJ may appreciate a player like Mangiapane with Neal. If Wennberg has fallen out of favor with Torts he is likely on his way out. I think Neal could work in well with CBJ.

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30 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

CBJ may appreciate a player like Mangiapane with Neal. If Wennberg has fallen out of favor with Torts he is likely on his way out. I think Neal could work in well with CBJ.

 

I would pass if we have to give up Mangiapane.  He's on the verge of something like Frank Vatrano, Jesper Bratt, with a sprinkle of Marchessault.  You need these bottom 6 guys who can pop in 20-goals or 40-points and costs you under $1.5-mil.

 

I would trade Frolik or Czarnik + Neal for Wennberg all day long.  

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Are u saying Marner is too expensive for the Flames?

I'm not into the numbers as much as others here but Between re-signing the UFAs, the bad contracts and the fact that @ 11m  he would be making over 60% more than the top salary (minus Chucky) it seems like alot to dump onto one player.

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