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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

If Gaudreau was that way, we would be unstoppable.

 

 

If you think about how many chances Gaudreau squanders over the course of a season, man, if he had better finish, then he'd be a 50-goal scorer easy.  

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18 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Smaller players are always going to only be effective with open ice to work with especially in the NHL. They can be as fearless as they want but as you say they bounce off or get bounce off the puck easily along the boards. You only want so many on your team especially as Wingers IMO and Gaudreau is enough IMO for us. Dube is at least someone that can and should play C eventually for us so I would be keeping him to replace such players as Backlund and Ryan down the road.

 

I kind of agree. I don’t think size looked like it killed us in the playoffs. But the ones who tried were: 

 

Gaudreau - easy to stop because no one else was going offensively on that line, and he got preoccupied with getting hacked he didn’t back check.

 

Bennett - love him but hadn’t found his touch. We’ve discussed what needs to happen with him and how he did.

 

Ryan - off and on. Not great every game but still played harder than most.

 

Mangiapane - a little ball of fire, like Hathaway only gets so much ice time. Can’t do much with that even though they were playing better than other lines.

 

Hathaway - can only do so much with less minutes because when trailing can’t have him playing as much, even though he was doing more than a lot of others.

 

Hamonic - only D to come to play. Andersson can get an honourable mention. The team took too long to insert Valamaki. Fanta was playing well but doesn’t generate more than Val.

 

3 of those guys are small and easy to battle against. A few whacks and a few bumps and it takes a toll.

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Alright let's have some fun.

 

To Philadelphia:

Sean Monahan

T.J. Brodie

 

To Calgary:

Nolan Patrick

Travis Konecny

Radko Gudas

 

Too risky for us i think.

 

Do you think they would take Giordano instead of Monahan?

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4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Too risky for us i think.

 

Do you think they would take Giordano instead of Monahan?

 

At some point we will need to move Gio. 

That isn't a shot on Gio, just the reality that he will decline and we need to get real value.

If he wins the Norris, then his value would be skyhigh.

GM's probably see him as a guy that can take them to the next level.

 

Maybe the leadership needs to change on this team, more because the team flounders too often.

Either way, it's a conversation that needs to take place.

It creates a big hole in the lineup, so we need to have the replacements ready to play that level.

Or we platoon the 3 pairs.

If Gio goes, then Brodie has to as well.

Sign Myers to replace some of the experience.

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56 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

The mandate in Calgary isn't "win mode now" ?

 

Most teams go full rebuild only after their core aged past their prime and they don't have any assets to move to make a quick retool.  They sell whatever they have and tank.  Then try to emerge from the ashes in 3 to 5 years time. 

 

It's a crazy concept but what about "rebuilding" when the core is still in their prime?  Because, you get SO much more assets back that from the ashes rises a phoenix.  Especially if the current core isn't aligning properly like the Flames.  No elite goaltender.  Lack of RHS C and RW.  Maybe a "blow it up" is in order.  Take 1 step back in order to take 2 steps forward.

 

Trading Monahan for Patrick for example.  Hamilton for Hanifin for example.  Trading a 26/27 year old for a lesser proven 20/21 year old.  Maybe that's the key.

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6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

At some point we will need to move Gio. 

That isn't a shot on Gio, just the reality that he will decline and we need to get real value.

If he wins the Norris, then his value would be skyhigh.

GM's probably see him as a guy that can take them to the next level.

 

Maybe the leadership needs to change on this team, more because the team flounders too often.

Either way, it's a conversation that needs to take place.

It creates a big hole in the lineup, so we need to have the replacements ready to play that level.

Or we platoon the 3 pairs.

If Gio goes, then Brodie has to as well.

Sign Myers to replace some of the experience.

 

I like Gio!

 

moving him would be the last of an era. I like his fitness and focus to the game. It’ll be hard to replace that. Are the players ready to make up for that? Are they committed enough? It’s my biggest worry that they aren’t, which is why we ebb and flow so much. Too high on highs and too low on lows. The regular season made it seem like they could get past that, but the playoffs proved they’re not there yet.

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4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Most teams go full rebuild only after their core aged past their prime and they don't have any assets to move to make a quick retool.  They sell whatever they have and tank.  Then try to emerge from the ashes in 3 to 5 years time. 

 

It's a crazy concept but what about "rebuilding" when the core is still in their prime?  Because, you get SO much more assets back that from the ashes rises a phoenix.  Especially if the current core isn't aligning properly like the Flames.  No elite goaltender.  Lack of RHS C and RW.  Maybe a "blow it up" is in order.  Take 1 step back in order to take 2 steps forward.

 

Trading Monahan for Patrick for example.  Hamilton for Hanifin for example.  Trading a 26/27 year old for a lesser proven 20/21 year old.  Maybe that's the key.

 

 

A lot seem to be contemplating Monahan. Can we get enough to make up for what we lose in him? 

 

Gaudreau plays like that moblie C, so if we can compare him to say the Naslund, Bertuzzi, Morrison line, he’s be Naslund. Morrison was a very good C, but perhaps not a usual #1. On any other team I would say he was a #2 or 3, kind of like Conroy. 

 

Monahan doesnt do enough like a Morrison or Conroy did. 

 

So does Lindholm work there? Can he develop into a more offensive two-way C that can man a 1st line? Does Tkachuk fit the bill as a complimentary power RW? He’s not a full power forward, but maybe enough to connect the line. He passes better than he shoots but can shoot it well. 

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7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I like Gio!

 

moving him would be the last of an era. I like his fitness and focus to the game. It’ll be hard to replace that. Are the players ready to make up for that? Are they committed enough? It’s my biggest worry that they aren’t, which is why we ebb and flow so much. Too high on highs and too low on lows. The regular season made it seem like they could get past that, but the playoffs proved they’re not there yet.

 

Don't give up the forest for one tree please!

 

That's the mistake we made with Iginla.  We gave him an image that was bigger than what he was in reality.  As soon as we traded him, Giordano emerged.  Same thing here.  As soon as Giordano leaves, someone else will emerge.

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3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Don't give up the forest for one tree please!

 

That's the mistake we made with Iginla.  We gave him an image that was bigger than what he was in reality.  As soon as we traded him, Giordano emerged.  Same thing here.  As soon as Giordano leaves, someone else will emerge.

 

Yup, I think they’re just questions, as I don’t mind the idea if you can get a few assets for him. I think we differ in opinions occasionally but have similarities as well, like how we should be building the team. 

 

Although we all all have similar and differing opinions. 

 

Trading Gio could be what keeps a few players here, if they emerge as the leaders. Tkachuk or Gaudreau... 

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1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

The mandate in Calgary isn't "win mode now" ? here is one you should like, let's get rid of our worst skater Tkachuk to TOR for Matthews. He gives a true #1 C and we can shift Monahan to 2nd line LW as the better skater and sniper. Then we don't have to deal with PHI.

 

Toronto isn't trading Matthews, or Marner, or Kapanen, or Johnsson. So there's that.

 

The trade with Philly is me just having fun. I think Patrick is ready to break out and have a big year. I also am not sold that we can win with Monahan as our top center. 

 

Tkachuk also isn't our worst skater, that honor still goes to Neal.

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5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I kind of agree. I don’t think size looked like it killed us in the playoffs. But the ones who tried were: 

 

Gaudreau - easy to stop because no one else was going offensively on that line, and he got preoccupied with getting hacked he didn’t back check.

 

Bennett - love him but hadn’t found his touch. We’ve discussed what needs to happen with him and how he did.

 

Ryan - off and on. Not great every game but still played harder than most.

 

Mangiapane - a little ball of fire, like Hathaway only gets so much ice time. Can’t do much with that even though they were playing better than other lines.

 

Hathaway - can only do so much with less minutes because when trailing can’t have him playing as much, even though he was doing more than a lot of others.

 

Hamonic - only D to come to play. Andersson can get an honourable mention. The team took too long to insert Valamaki. Fanta was playing well but doesn’t generate more than Val.

 

3 of those guys are small and easy to battle against. A few whacks and a few bumps and it takes a toll.

There is starting to be a lot of whacky stuff being tossed around on here and everyone has their own way of thinking for having us be a better team. Me included.

I don't see BT getting to crazy with to many changes or drastic ones, having said this I believe he will try to accommodate BP for certain changes that move towards the type of team both want to see evolve.

I don't think there is anyone here or in management that believes Neal should be part of this team next season. We will let BT look after this one.

I believe BP prefers players with some size, speed and overall talent so I see them addressing some areas this offseason. The questions becomes, how do we become a stronger team in our areas of weakness. I don't see them trading away Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund or Tkachuk up front but I can see them bringing in more complimentary players to surround them.

Out with Neal, Frolik, Mangiapane, Czarnik, Hathaway and Jankowski.

On defense I think it is fair to say the only defensemen that proved to be stalwart and reliable in all aspects to which defensemen should be were Giordano, Hamonic and to a lesser extent Andersson and Valimaki. I would say all of Hanifin, Andersson and Valimaki are progressing into being our future. Definitely keepers IMO. Brodie, Stone, Fantanberg, Prout and Kylington could all be on the outs.

In our Goal, Rittich proved worthy of a new contract however we need an experienced Goaltender to go with him. Trade away Gilles.

NEEDS (given the players mentioned as gone are gone)

FORWARDS

I believe BP with his desire for a fast team wants at a minimum his C's to have this quality which leaves out Monahan. My suggestion is move Monahan to the 2nd line LW with speedy talented C and RW. This requires Tkachuk to move to RW top line with Gaudreau LW and Lindholm C, new top line.

Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk

Monahan, ???????, ????????

Bennett, Backlund, ?????????

??????, Ryan, ????????

DEFENSE
Giordano, Andersson

Hanifin, Hamonic

Valimaki, ????????

GOALIES

Rittich, ????????

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48 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I like Gio!

 

moving him would be the last of an era. I like his fitness and focus to the game. It’ll be hard to replace that. Are the players ready to make up for that? Are they committed enough? It’s my biggest worry that they aren’t, which is why we ebb and flow so much. Too high on highs and too low on lows. The regular season made it seem like they could get past that, but the playoffs proved they’re not there yet.

I say NO what we have as defensemen now are not ready. You give Valimaki, Hanifin and Andersson two more seasons then maybe you have replaced Giordano and Hamonic. I think some of the recent moves for defensemen have also started to pave the way for the future. Having Giordano finish out his contract here wouldn't be the worse thing to have happen.

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16 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Toronto isn't trading Matthews, or Marner, or Kapanen, or Johnsson. So there's that.

 

The trade with Philly is me just having fun. I think Patrick is ready to break out and have a big year. I also am not sold that we can win with Monahan as our top center. 

 

Tkachuk also isn't our worst skater, that honor still goes to Neal.

Once again you are WRONG

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56 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Most teams go full rebuild only after their core aged past their prime and they don't have any assets to move to make a quick retool.  They sell whatever they have and tank.  Then try to emerge from the ashes in 3 to 5 years time. 

 

It's a crazy concept but what about "rebuilding" when the core is still in their prime?  Because, you get SO much more assets back that from the ashes rises a phoenix.  Especially if the current core isn't aligning properly like the Flames.  No elite goaltender.  Lack of RHS C and RW.  Maybe a "blow it up" is in order.  Take 1 step back in order to take 2 steps forward.

 

Trading Monahan for Patrick for example.  Hamilton for Hanifin for example.  Trading a 26/27 year old for a lesser proven 20/21 year old.  Maybe that's the key.

I believe our window is in the next 3 years to have serious thoughts for a SC, you appear to be in constant reverse.

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I like Gio!

 

moving him would be the last of an era. I like his fitness and focus to the game. It’ll be hard to replace that. Are the players ready to make up for that? Are they committed enough? It’s my biggest worry that they aren’t, which is why we ebb and flow so much. Too high on highs and too low on lows. The regular season made it seem like they could get past that, but the playoffs proved they’re not there yet.

 

Gio isn't done.  Not by a long stretch.

What I am saying is that at some point, before it's too late, you consider the trade.

We lost all value on Iggy and blew the JBow trade.

That actually set us back by years.

 

So, here's the thing with Gio as the captain.

He leads regular season by fitness, compete and scoring timely goals.

Where did that go in the playoffs.

We can blame the top line all we want, but he disappeared too.

Gio is as much to blame as any other player for the playoffs.

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Calgary is likely in on Bob as the next starter.

BT would be crazy to not consider it and contact the agent about a deal structure.

It will be a high priced contract regardless of the final number or number of years.

The same way we would need to adjust with a Marner OS, we would need to deal with the starter making north of 7m.

Is it reasonable to believe that the Flames could make that happen?

If it is reasonable, then salary has to move out.

What areas could be stripped to afford this?

Defense - Brodie, Stone (buyout)

Forwards - Frolik, Bennett, Janko, Czarnik, Backlund

Goalies - Gillies 

 

I diodn't include Neal, as he would bring back the same salary as we lose in the trade.  Brodie, Stone and Janko would likely be enough going out, as long as we don't bring in more than $1m in one of the three.  

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2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Gio isn't done.  Not by a long stretch.

What I am saying is that at some point, before it's too late, you consider the trade.

We lost all value on Iggy and blew the JBow trade.

That actually set us back by years.

 

So, here's the thing with Gio as the captain.

He leads regular season by fitness, compete and scoring timely goals.

Where did that go in the playoffs.

We can blame the top line all we want, but he disappeared too.

Gio is as much to blame as any other player for the playoffs.

I think this trade a player before we get nothing for him has its time and place not a rule. If our window is a possible SC over the next 3 seasons you want to have the required experienced players to get the job done. I don't think the team surrounding Iginla in his last 3 seasons here were good enough to win a SC and management went on a hope and a prayer to long.

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Too risky for us i think.

 

Do you think they would take Giordano instead of Monahan?

 

That's fair. It is a risk, sometimes to win big you have to bet big 

 

I just don't think we can handle losing Giordano at this point, we just don't have the guys ready to take his spot. He did have an elite year offensively this year, but he has been an elite all around defenseman for years, like top 5 to 10 in the league. 

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1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I say NO what we have as defensemen now are not ready. You give Valimaki, Hanifin and Andersson two more seasons then maybe you have replaced Giordano and Hamonic. I think some of the recent moves for defensemen have also started to pave the way for the future. Having Giordano finish out his contract here wouldn't be the worse thing to have happen.

 

I agree as well, but just not opposed to it. At least one more year of mentoring Andersson and Valamaki would be great. The hope is Kylington can get some development momentum and take some giant steps soon. 

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Gio isn't done.  Not by a long stretch.

What I am saying is that at some point, before it's too late, you consider the trade.

We lost all value on Iggy and blew the JBow trade.

That actually set us back by years.

 

So, here's the thing with Gio as the captain.

He leads regular season by fitness, compete and scoring timely goals.

Where did that go in the playoffs.

We can blame the top line all we want, but he disappeared too.

Gio is as much to blame as any other player for the playoffs.

 

I agree with all of this too. 

Can we gain more by not trading him? Helping to develop the young D?

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

That's fair. It is a risk, sometimes to win big you have to bet big 

 

I just don't think we can handle losing Giordano at this point, we just don't have the guys ready to take his spot. He did have an elite year offensively this year, but he has been an elite all around defenseman for years, like top 5 to 10 in the league. 

 

What does this even mean?

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57 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree with all of this too. 

Can we gain more by not trading him? Helping to develop the young D?

 

The D isn't ready for his departure.

Doesn't mean they won't be in a year's time.

Or two.

 

Consider the expansion draft.

If we have Valimaki, Ras, Kylington, Hanifin, Hamonic (assuming he is here), and Gio, we will lose the youngest guy left unprotected.

Valimaki, Ras and Hanifin should be the guys protected.

If Kylington is better than Hanifin by then, we trade Hanifin.

It makes little sense from an asset management perspective to still have Gio by then.

Protect him and you lose a really good player or valuable asset.

Leave him unprotected and you lose a top 2 D-man. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

What does this even mean?

 

We have a bunch mid tier guys in Hamonic, Hanifin, Brodie and then we have a couple of guys that are on their way up in Andersson and Valimaki. 

 

If we traded Gio this season it would leave too big of a hole on our defense. 

 

Really Gio is our only top pairing guy, Brodie played there but he isn't an ideal top pairing defenseman. Andersson played there and didn't look out of place, but he was being carried by Gio, he didn't look like he was ready to run a top pairing.

 

If you look at the team's left in the playoffs they all have multiple top end defense. 

 

San Jose: Burns, Karlsson, Vlasic

St. Louis: Pietrangelo, Parayko

Carolina: Slavin, Pesce, Hamilton

Boston: McAvoy, Chara, Carlo, Krug

 

 

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Can we stop the Kadri talk, please? Yuck. Are we targeting a new whipping boy? 

 

I’m kind of into poaching the Sharks if we can. Shore up our team and simultaneously take a chunk out of theirs. I mentioned Lebanc as a savvy pickup earlier, and I’ll add Timo Meier as a target. Thoughts as to how/if it’s achievable? 

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7 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

I’m kind of into poaching the Sharks if we can. Shore up our team and simultaneously take a chunk out of theirs. I mentioned Lebanc as a savvy pickup earlier, and I’ll add Timo Meier as a target. Thoughts as to how/if it’s achievable? 

 

Why would a division rival trade with us?  Both teams in the hunt for #1 in Division next season.

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