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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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57 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

So much talk in the boards that,

 

"we should've trade Iggy 3 years earlier".

"Let's not make the same mistake with Giordano that we did with Iginla".

 

And here we are.  Let's follow through.

 

The only thing that's ambiguous on cap friendly is Giordano has a NTC starting in 2020-21... But it would be interpreted he has full NTC now, and then becomes modified later...  Not sure of the details.

 

Full NTC this year.

I'm okay with trading Brodie, but Gio will need to wait.

He's still one of the fittest players we have.

His drive to play is not matched.

Yes, you need to move on, but not the first year after a Norris level season.

Not when your top LD is then Brodie.

 

I am interested to see if Valimaki can first become a full time NHL player.

Or if Kylington is that guy.

Trouba make us a top team even losing Brodie.

Trouba without Gio is a step down from today.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Giordano wasn't exactly a playoff star leading by example.  Thus, fair enough, the entire leadership group needs to be questioned.

 

As you know, if it was up to me, I've ready traded Giordano, Monahan, and Gaudreau.  

 

That's fine.

It's fair to question the leadership.

I can't speak for what happened in the room during the playoffs, but he should hang his head.

He didn;t rally the team.

He didn;t marshall the defense.

Backlund did little as well.

Two of the most respinsible players on the team and they folded.

 

Neal should have been one of the most vocal in the room, but his results muted any respect he would have gotten.

 

As far as leadership for the future, Hamonic deserves to be at least an A.  That guy bleeds hockey.

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4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Full NTC this year.

I'm okay with trading Brodie, but Gio will need to wait.

He's still one of the fittest players we have.

His drive to play is not matched.

Yes, you need to move on, but not the first year after a Norris level season.

Not when your top LD is then Brodie.

 

I am interested to see if Valimaki can first become a full time NHL player.

Or if Kylington is that guy.

Trouba make us a top team even losing Brodie.

Trouba without Gio is a step down from today.

 

 

I wouldn't get your heart stuck on obtaining Trouba. Defense isn't where we need to spend money. BT's focus should be Tkachuk, Goal and building the RW side if he trades Neal, Frolik and let's Hathaway walk.

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2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That's fine.

It's fair to question the leadership.

I can't speak for what happened in the room during the playoffs, but he should hang his head.

He didn;t rally the team.

He didn;t marshall the defense.

Backlund did little as well.

Two of the most respinsible players on the team and they folded.

 

Neal should have been one of the most vocal in the room, but his results muted any respect he would have gotten.

 

As far as leadership for the future, Hamonic deserves to be at least an A.  That guy bleeds hockey.

You obviously know very little about Leadership and team sports. Giordano has nothing to hang his head about "EVER". If anyone needs to take responsibility for our play against COL it's the coaching staff for not having a better game plan defensively. All our flaws showed up at the wrong time and the whole team needs to recognize this and learn from it.

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36 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Because we can potentially get a top line RW.

 

Question is, does our LD suck so bad that we miss the playoffs losing Gio?  

 

I don't think our LD sucks without Gio, but our D as a whole becomes quite a bit weaker without Gio. We might still make the playoffs, but I don't think we go too far, as we just don't have anyone who can shut down opposing forwards.

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32 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well in terms of leadership, I think Monahan is ready to be captain.  Also Hamonic is a respected voice in the locker room.

 

The Monahan that showed up after the all Star break wasn't ready to captain anything. I think Tkachuk is the next captain of this team. From some of the comments from management, I get the sense that they weren't thrilled with the effort they got from Monahan this season.

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I don't think Nylander should be a target for this team. We need high compete level players and that's not Nylander's game. He is very skilled, and perhaps in the right move I would consider it, but I think we need to be aiming higher with our tradeable assets.

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13 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I don't think Nylander should be a target for this team. We need high compete level players and that's not Nylander's game. He is very skilled, and perhaps in the right move I would consider it, but I think we need to be aiming higher with our tradeable assets.

Aiming higher like who ? If you don't think Nylander has a high compete you haven't watched him much. Glad it isn't your decision.

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2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Trading Iginla and trading Giordano are not the same scenario at all. Our pipeline had been drained just trying to accommodate winning a SC for Iginla. This is not the case today and Giordano is just one incremental part towards winning one now. I don't understand this thinking that we "must" trade him before he is to old, WHY ? Giordano is a top4 defenseman now and will be as he finishes his contract. Our best chance to win a SC is in the next 3 IMO so no I wouldn't even be thinking about trading Giordano.

 

You're right, this is MUCH worse.

 

We drained the pipeline trying to win a cup with Iggy.  Which was just, soooo, unbelievably shortsighted.  I expect that from the general population but not from management.

 

Now, we're draining the pipeline to stay competitive with Gio in the regular season with a team we already know has no hope in the playoffs.

 

 

Look through this forum, people have been saying "Our best chance to win a SC is in the next 3 IMO" since the forum was created, literally.   Please we need to stop this.  You should have a good chance to win Every year.   We only see these windows because we keep putting ourselves behind the 8-ball draining our pipeline for 1-in-a-million chances.    I'll tell you right now management didn't keep Iggy for the cup.  They can do math.  I think.   They kept him for the regular season ticket sales.

 

And you can better believe that's why they'll want to keep Gio.

 

I'm not here for the regular season ticket sales.  And I plan on being here a lot longer than 2-3 years.   So I'd love to see us stop kicking ourselves.

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9 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think BT needs to use Giordano to achieve that feat. In regards to your second statement it is not a matter of whether our other LD suck it is a matter of them being able to replace Giordano's leadership and experience towards winning a SC. Do you think Hanifin or Valimaki are ready to step in and take Giordano's place ?

 

Gio hasn’t won anything and now has like 5 or 6 games of playoff experience and may not have been the worst player, but definitely played below elite in the playoffs this year. He can turn it around, but the whole team seemed to be awed by the whole experience and finally started to come around in about game 4. Even Valamaki looked better, albeit a third pair. 

 

A big big problem was playing Valamaki in game 5 and not in game 1. This team has to stop coddling and throw players who can do it out there. 

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7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

You're right, this is MUCH worse.

 

We drained the pipeline trying to win a cup with Iggy.  Which was just, soooo, unbelievably shortsighted.  I expect that from the general population but not from management.

 

Now, we're draining the pipeline to stay competitive with Gio in the regular season with a team we already know has no hope in the playoffs.

 

 

Look through this forum, people have been saying "Our best chance to win a SC is in the next 3 IMO" since the forum was created, literally.   Please we need to stop this.  You should have a good chance to win Every year.   We only see these windows because we keep putting ourselves behind the 8-ball draining our pipeline for 1-in-a-million chances.    I'll tell you right now management didn't keep Iggy for the cup.  They can do math.  I think.   They kept him for the regular season ticket sales.

 

And you can better believe that's why they'll want to keep Gio.

 

I'm not here for the regular season ticket sales.  And I plan on being here a lot longer than 2-3 years.   So I'd love to see us stop kicking ourselves.

 

And the playoffs. Don’t the Owners receive all of the extra revenue that the playoffs bring in. The goal is to make the playoffs. It’s bonus. Anything above round one is even more for them.

 

i am with you, I want to build a sustainable team that’s good for a long time.

 

even though there are teams that have choked, they’ve been a model of consistency in the past, and even considered contenders going into the playoffs. The playoffs are hard. 

 

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Well now that the Kessel/Zucker trade has fallen through, and Zucker has almost been trade twice only to see it fall through, it would be a good time to follow up and see if we can get Zucker for cheaper than the rumoured Frolik and a 1st.

 

Whatever team gets Zucker, is going to get a highly motivated player. 

 

I wonder if we can do Frolik straight across at this point.

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54 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Well now that the Kessel/Zucker trade has fallen through, and Zucker has almost been trade twice only to see it fall through, it would be a good time to follow up and see if we can get Zucker for cheaper than the rumoured Frolik and a 1st.

 

Whatever team gets Zucker, is going to get a highly motivated player. 

 

I wonder if we can do Frolik straight across at this point.

 

Why did it fall through twice?  I'm beginning to wonder Zucker is the problem...

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Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Why did it fall through twice?  I'm beginning to wonder Zucker is the problem...

 

I don't know why the deal with the Flames fell through at the deadline, but Treliving wasn't very happy about it.

 

Kessel blocked the trade to Minnesota, so it had nothing to do with Zucker.

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10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Why did it fall through twice?  I'm beginning to wonder Zucker is the problem...

 

10 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I don't know why the deal with the Flames fell through at the deadline, but Treliving wasn't very happy about it.

 

Kessel blocked the trade to Minnesota, so it had nothing to do with Zucker.

 

My guess is that if Minny tried twice and both tries failed, the problems would be the other teams  and not on the Wild’s side.

 

Somebody in the Flames org must not have wanted to give up so much and I am beginning to not blame them. 

 

Outside of the young core group and the young depth the Flames have built, there aren’t a lot of top6/top4 D for long term prospects. Ok, Valamaki and Andersson, but besides them. I am not fully sold on the rest yet, but to remain viable we can’t keep trading away 1st rounders for the now and expect to be competitive in 5-6 years when the core contracts come up.

 

For me, the line up is sort of coming together but I am finding the mix off and mostly soft and fragile. We have one guy on D and two F who can play a heavier (mix em up) game. Our small forwards get bumped and they lose the puck ( -Gaudreau). Then they get hacked and nothing. Tkachuk talks but he’s not cheap. We get out-cheaped then wonder why calls aren’t made, which is how you get an edge in the playoffs. You gotta do what you can to win. Plus, in the playoffs Tkachuk’s antics aren’t effective because the other team just tunes him out.

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36 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/report-flames-white-hot-losing-jason-zucker-203214755.html

 

This has been brought up before, but the Kessel trade won't happen because Kessel doesn't want to go to MIN. The Flames trade didn't happen because of something on the MIN side

 

Its interesting. I don’t think it clears anything up though as it says it could be them, the Flames or the lengthy cue at NHL. 

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13 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Gio hasn’t won anything and now has like 5 or 6 games of playoff experience and may not have been the worst player, but definitely played below elite in the playoffs this year. He can turn it around, but the whole team seemed to be awed by the whole experience and finally started to come around in about game 4. Even Valamaki looked better, albeit a third pair. 

 

A big big problem was playing Valamaki in game 5 and not in game 1. This team has to stop coddling and throw players who can do it out there. 

I don't think Valimaki  was out much against McKinnon and Landeskog much. Also let not forget how much Giordano does making up for his partners whether its Brodie or Andersson. Nobody seems to be mentioning that Andersson's rookieness showed up a lot in that series which is why experience is a valuable commodity especially in the playoffs.

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2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Its interesting. I don’t think it clears anything up though as it says it could be them, the Flames or the lengthy cue at NHL. 

 

There are hoops each trade has to go through.  Frolik had a M-NTC and that needed to be considered.

Not that he had blocked it, it's just another detail.

They still use a fax for the deal, which just amazes me.

Yes, there is a cue, but it still has to be in the queue by the deadline.

 

The delay of getting both parties to sign off is tough.

Remember, we were in the Stone deal until near the end of the TDL.

Minny was circled back to late in the day.

 

Anyway, we don't need to make a bunch of changes to be a regular season winner.

We need a few pieces to become a Tampa regular season team.

We do need some changes to be more effective in the playoffs.

Moving on from Smith.

Someone that can play defensive hockey with Gio.

A 3rd line that shows up.

 

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9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

There are hoops each trade has to go through.  Frolik had a M-NTC and that needed to be considered.

Not that he had blocked it, it's just another detail.

They still use a fax for the deal, which just amazes me.

Yes, there is a cue, but it still has to be in the queue by the deadline.

 

The delay of getting both parties to sign off is tough.

Remember, we were in the Stone deal until near the end of the TDL.

Minny was circled back to late in the day.

 

Anyway, we don't need to make a bunch of changes to be a regular season winner.

We need a few pieces to become a Tampa regular season team.

We do need some changes to be more effective in the playoffs.

Moving on from Smith.

Someone that can play defensive hockey with Gio.

A 3rd line that shows up.

 

 

What about:

 

Giordano, Hamonic 

Hanifin, Andersson

Valimaki, XXX

 

Can switch up Hanifin and Valamaki. We just need a 3rd pair D. I really liked what I saw from both Valamaki and Andersson. 

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2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

What about:

 

Giordano, Hamonic 

Hanifin, Andersson

Valimaki, XXX

 

Can switch up Hanifin and Valamaki. We just need a 3rd pair D. I really liked what I saw from both Valamaki and Andersson. 

 

Strangely enough, Hanifin-Hamonic was one of the most consistent duos this year.

Hammer made up for Hanifin's braincramps.

Hanifin's speed allowed the D to jump up.

When Hanifin played with others, the results were not anywhere near as good.

 

I would be doing everything I could to land Trouba and move Brodie.

It would give us more options.

Gio-Trouba

Hanifin-Hamonic

Valimaki-Andersson

Kylington

 

3 RHS andd 4 LHS.

Fantenberg would also be a safe bet, as he plays both sides.

Trouba doesn't add that much scoring over Brodie, but it would aid in defense.

The other thing is that we could use Gio-Trouba or just Trouba on the 1st PP unit and Gio-Andersson on the 2nd unit 

 

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24 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Strangely enough, Hanifin-Hamonic was one of the most consistent duos this year.

Hammer made up for Hanifin's braincramps.

Hanifin's speed allowed the D to jump up.

When Hanifin played with others, the results were not anywhere near as good.

 

I would be doing everything I could to land Trouba and move Brodie.

It would give us more options.

Gio-Trouba

Hanifin-Hamonic

Valimaki-Andersson

Kylington

 

3 RHS andd 4 LHS.

Fantenberg would also be a safe bet, as he plays both sides.

Trouba doesn't add that much scoring over Brodie, but it would aid in defense.

The other thing is that we could use Gio-Trouba or just Trouba on the 1st PP unit and Gio-Andersson on the 2nd unit 

 

 

I don’t know if the PP can be helped just by adding or subtracting  players. I think it’s too settled and not enough movement. Players don’t skate around and seems don’t open up as much. Maybe they moved around more when the first unit was scoring earlier in the year? Or did teams start to try harder and then it became ineffective? 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I don’t know if the PP can be helped just by adding or subtracting  players. I think it’s too settled and not enough movement. Players don’t skate around and seems don’t open up as much. Maybe they moved around more when the first unit was scoring earlier in the year? Or did teams start to try harder and then it became ineffective? 

 

 

 

I know by the eye test that the Flames struggled on the PP the 2nd half.  You have to remember that the 2nd unit was useless for most of the year.

And yes, they played very stagnant at times.

With all that, they were still 18th in the league on the PP.

They also drew the 2nd most PP's, so the stats will suffer a bit as well.

 

If you have a balanced attack with 2 units able to score, you will have better chances.

When the top line drew the penalties, the 2nd unit came on for the start.

They were dreadful.

If the top unit was on first and failed to score, the 2nd unit failed mostly.

 

You get settled on the way you set up by the personnel you have.

Gio has two moves; big shot where his stick breaks or wander in and score.

Johnny's most common 1st pass was to Gio.

 

I do think a minor change to the top unit would help.

Let's assume Trouba s there.

That means you have to play Johnny on the right half boards.

You put Lindholm (Zucker) in Johnny's old spot.

More movement possible there.

 

By moving Gio to the 2nd unit, you can have a strong blueline with a rocket from Ras.

Zucker (Lindholm) and Neal/Mangiapane and a strong C.

Backlund is not that guy.

 

But anyway, a lot is based on if we make any trades.

Since Hamilton for picks and Hamonic for picks was a surprise for most, I can see the same with Trouba.

Not even talked about, but it could happen.

We are one of the few teams that could give up a top 2 D for a top 2 D.

It creates some cap issues, but those can be worked out.

It would give us a top defense now and for the future, even after Gio moves on.

IMHO

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14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I know by the eye test that the Flames struggled on the PP the 2nd half.  You have to remember that the 2nd unit was useless for most of the year.

And yes, they played very stagnant at times.

With all that, they were still 18th in the league on the PP.

They also drew the 2nd most PP's, so the stats will suffer a bit as well.

 

If you have a balanced attack with 2 units able to score, you will have better chances.

When the top line drew the penalties, the 2nd unit came on for the start.

They were dreadful.

If the top unit was on first and failed to score, the 2nd unit failed mostly.

 

You get settled on the way you set up by the personnel you have.

Gio has two moves; big shot where his stick breaks or wander in and score.

Johnny's most common 1st pass was to Gio.

 

I do think a minor change to the top unit would help.

Let's assume Trouba s there.

That means you have to play Johnny on the right half boards.

You put Lindholm (Zucker) in Johnny's old spot.

More movement possible there.

 

By moving Gio to the 2nd unit, you can have a strong blueline with a rocket from Ras.

Zucker (Lindholm) and Neal/Mangiapane and a strong C.

Backlund is not that guy.

 

But anyway, a lot is based on if we make any trades.

Since Hamilton for picks and Hamonic for picks was a surprise for most, I can see the same with Trouba.

Not even talked about, but it could happen.

We are one of the few teams that could give up a top 2 D for a top 2 D.

It creates some cap issues, but those can be worked out.

It would give us a top defense now and for the future, even after Gio moves on.

IMHO

 

👍🏽

 

You’re right. Trouba could be a good succession plan go Gio. By the time Gio is out of it, Valamaki can hopefully leapfrog into the top pair.  

I think two seasons for Valamaki on the 3rd pair would be great for him. He and Hanifin can split the minutes Gio doesn’t play. 

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At this point I think Trouba is a pipe dream. I think he simply just doesn’t want to play in canada. Winnipeg is a better overall team than us and he won’t sign with them, can’t see him signing here either. If he’s not traded to an American team this summer, he will sign a one year deal and then sign in Detroit.

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