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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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17 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

You could be right about Bennett as a center, my standpoint is we have a proven top end defensive center in Backlund who can get the puck going the other way, why move him.

 

Having Mangiapane on the right side should allow him to be in more shooting positions, and he has the smarts and skill to be able to move to the other wing without much issue.

Can we afford Kadri and Backlund  plus improve on one top 6 RW. I don't think Mangiapane is top 6 material yet and especially on a wing he has never played. This is just wishful thinking.

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Just now, GM_3300 said:

Can we afford Kadri and Backlund  plus improve on one top 6 RW. I don't think Mangiapane is top 6 material yet and especially on a wing he has never played. This is just wishful thinking.

 

Probably not, I just value center depth way more than depth on the wings. Kadri makes the same as Frolik so that would just be a wash.

 

We could try Bennet or Dube on the right side as well. Or trade of Bennett, Mangiapane or Dube for a RW with a similar contract.

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Just now, JTech780 said:

 

Probably not, I just value center depth way more than depth on the wings. Kadri makes the same as Frolik so that would just be a wash.

 

We could try Bennet or Dube on the right side as well. Or trade of Bennett, Mangiapane or Dube for a RW with a similar contract.

Going with Kadri and Backlund and Neal gone, this would be a scenario to shoot for IMO.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm

Tkachuk, Kadri, Kapanen verdict still out ( I would trade Mangiapane along with Brodie for Kadri and Kapanen RW if TOR would do it)

Dube, Bennett, Connolly (UFA)

Rychel, Ryan, Lazar

Quine, Czarnik

One major trade, one UFA signing sounds like Treliving's MO.

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50 minutes ago, GM_3300 said:

Going with Kadri and Backlund and Neal gone, this would be a scenario to shoot for IMO.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm

Tkachuk, Kadri, Kapanen verdict still out ( I would trade Mangiapane along with Brodie for Kadri and Kapanen RW if TOR would do it)

Dube, Bennett, Connolly (UFA)

Rychel, Ryan, Lazar

Quine, Czarnik

One major trade, one UFA signing sounds like Treliving's MO.

 

We would need to add a 1st most likely to get both Kadri and Kapanen, even then I am not sure that will get it done, as I am not sure they would have a ton of interest in Brodie.

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19 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

We would need to add a 1st most likely to get both Kadri and Kapanen, even then I am not sure that will get it done, as I am not sure they would have a ton of interest in Brodie.

One year of Brodie may be just what they need before they have their prospects ready on D. TOR may not be in a position to dictate a deal, they will need to move some bodies to get Marner signed so no 1st.

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Just now, GM_3300 said:

One year of Brodie may be just what they need before they have their prospects ready on D. TOR may not be in a position to dictate a deal, they will need to move some bodies to get Marner signed so no 1st.

 

They are loaded on the left side and Babcock loves playing his defense on their strong side.

 

There will be plenty of suitors for guys like Kadri, Kapanen (who I doubt they will move) or Nylander. So they will get to pick their best deal. 

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The more I think about it, the more I hope we target William Karlsson with the Golden Knights.  He's RFA, and the GK are up against the cap after the Stone signing.  Karlsson is probably due a contract around 6-6.5 million AAV, so an offer sheet would only bring back a 1st and a 3rd.  Vegas can't take much salary back, so a deal would have to centre around young players and draft picks (Already have 83 million committed before signing their RFAs and UFAs).

 

To CGY: Karlsson

To GK: Jankowski + Mangiapagne + 2nd

 

This gives Vegas 2 relatively cheap depth forward options with upside, while we get Backlund 2.0 (a solid 2 way centre, but with more offensive upside).  Obviously we would have to clear some salary to make this work, but I'm sure we can find takers for Frolik and Brodie without taking salary back.

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2 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

The more I think about it, the more I hope we target William Karlsson with the Golden Knights.  He's RFA, and the GK are up against the cap after the Stone signing.  Karlsson is probably due a contract around 6-6.5 million AAV, so an offer sheet would only bring back a 1st and a 3rd.  Vegas can't take much salary back, so a deal would have to centre around young players and draft picks (Already have 83 million committed before signing their RFAs and UFAs).

 

To CGY: Karlsson

To GK: Jankowski + Mangiapagne + 2nd

 

This gives Vegas 2 relatively cheap depth forward options with upside, while we get Backlund 2.0 (a solid 2 way centre, but with more offensive upside).  Obviously we would have to clear some salary to make this work, but I'm sure we can find takers for Frolik and Brodie without taking salary back.

 

I really like the idea, Karlsson would be a great add. I just think Vegas will move out guys like Miller, Eakin, Haula before moving Karlsson.

 

I think it going after a Miller and Haula package is more realistic. I wonder if we could do a Stone at 50%, Jankowski and Kylington deal and get those two in return. 

 

Miller helps our depth on the right side when we move Brodie. Haula can play all over the lineup including center and he is very fast as long as he recovers from his injury.

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17 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I really like the idea, Karlsson would be a great add. I just think Vegas will move out guys like Miller, Eakin, Haula before moving Karlsson.

 

I think it going after a Miller and Haula package is more realistic. I wonder if we could do a Stone at 50%, Jankowski and Kylington deal and get those two in return. 

 

Miller helps our depth on the right side when we move Brodie. Haula can play all over the lineup including center and he is very fast as long as he recovers from his injury.

I like both players too, just concerned with Haula's injury.  If healthy, he could be a great budget addition.  I think Janko + Kylington is a good start, but I don't see the value for Vegas in taking Stone, even at a discount.  I think we would need to add draft picks to make it work, but it could be doable.

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41 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

They are loaded on the left side and Babcock loves playing his defense on their strong side.

 

There will be plenty of suitors for guys like Kadri, Kapanen (who I doubt they will move) or Nylander. So they will get to pick their best deal. 

Babcock may appreciate the flexibility of Brodie to play either side. They will let Gardiner walk and McDermott is going to be in full recovery on his shoulder so who knows. I would throw in the 1st if push came to shove to get Kadri and Kapanen plus unload Brodie.

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43 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I like both players too, just concerned with Haula's injury.  If healthy, he could be a great budget addition.  I think Janko + Kylington is a good start, but I don't see the value for Vegas in taking Stone, even at a discount.  I think we would need to add draft picks to make it work, but it could be doable.

Haula is a gamble worth taking so long as we get Miller in the process. I like JT's thinking except they likely don't need Jankowski. Go with Mangiapane, Kylington and Stone at 50%. Miller allows us to trade Brodie and we can sign back Fantenberg as our 7th D.

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5 hours ago, JTech780 said:

We need more center depth not less, so trading for Kadri and then trading away Backlund doesn't make much sense to me. I think you need to be 4 deep at center and we are 1 short of that goal, with Jankowski being the weak link.

 

Oh of course.  That's not the ONLY move I'm advocating.  But I would not hesitate trading Backlund.

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2 hours ago, ABC923 said:

 

To CGY: Karlsson

To GK: Jankowski + Mangiapagne + 2nd

 

Karlsson is good but not worth $6-mil or whatever he is going to get.  Seriously, Mangiapane can score anywhere from 20 to 30 next season... And should only cost $1.5-mil on a 2-year deal.  

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Karlsson is good but not worth $6-mil or whatever he is going to get.  Seriously, Mangiapane can score anywhere from 20 to 30 next season... And should only cost $1.5-mil on a 2-year deal.  

 

The only problem I have with Mangiapane is his size. I get a lot here don’t believe it’s an issue, the Flames didn’t necessarily get pushed around or out hit, but I think that size on this team is an issue. 

 

I like him, but we also expect Dube to make a jump as well.

 

Ryan, Mangiapane, Czarnik, Dube

 

4 players out of 6 of lines 3&4. Three of them play a hard game but is that hard game as taxing on opponents as it would be if the bottom 6 was manned by players 6ft or more?

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2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

The only problem I have with Mangiapane is his size. I get a lot here don’t believe it’s an issue, the Flames didn’t necessarily get pushed around or out hit, but I think that size on this team is an issue. 

 

I like him, but we also expect Dube to make a jump as well.

 

Ryan, Mangiapane, Czarnik, Dube

 

4 players out of 6 of lines 3&4. Three of them play a hard game but is that hard game as taxing on opponents as it would be if the bottom 6 was manned by players 6ft or more?

 

Personally, I think Magiapane is a beast compared to Czarnik.

He can take a hit as good or better than Dube.

No, you should not have too many smaller guys if your big guys get pushed around.

 

Considering the 4th line was the best line in the playoffs, I think it shows that a heavy 4th line is becomming like the dinosaurs.

Mangiapane took some time to adapt to the hitting level in the NHL, but I think he turned a corner.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Personally, I think Magiapane is a beast compared to Czarnik.

He can take a hit as good or better than Dube.

No, you should not have too many smaller guys if your big guys get pushed around.

 

Considering the 4th line was the best line in the playoffs, I think it shows that a heavy 4th line is becomming like the dinosaurs.

Mangiapane took some time to adapt to the hitting level in the NHL, but I think he turned a corner.

 

 

 

I do agree that he plays bigger than some of our bigger players. I really like his energy.

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27 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Personally, I think Magiapane is a beast compared to Czarnik.

He can take a hit as good or better than Dube.

No, you should not have too many smaller guys if your big guys get pushed around.

 

Considering the 4th line was the best line in the playoffs, I think it shows that a heavy 4th line is becomming like the dinosaurs.

Mangiapane took some time to adapt to the hitting level in the NHL, but I think he turned a corner.

 

 

 

I think you are undervaluing Czarnik a bit, all there counting stats and advanced stats are almost identical. Czarnik just didn't have the advantage of getting regular playing time, and when he did get into the lineup he was bounced all over the place.

 

Don't get me wrong I think Mangiapane will be a very good player, but I think Czarnik is and can be a very effective player he was given consistent playing time.

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On 5/28/2019 at 4:24 PM, The_People1 said:

 

Do you think TOR will do Marner for Gaudreau+Brodie?

 

It’s a great question. And I’ll attempt to answer it realistically - since that’s the aim of this thread. 

 

On one hand, the fan base and media are frantic over Marner likely commanding around $10 million or more for his new contract, and then the limited cap space left to find a solid defenseman, plus ice a full roster that can compete. The Nylander contract didn’t do them any favours, and all the talk surrounds getting rid of him, Marleau, and/or Kadri - mostly - for cap space and to fill Defensive needs. 

 

Scooping Gaudreau & Brodie in a single trade for Marner would allow Toronto to lockdown not only a similar and popular offensive talent, but secure a much needed D man to replace Gardiner (who the fan base despises and likely isn’t re-signing) for approximately the same cap hit that Marner alone is commanding. Outside of the fact that Marner is a Toronto boy, and a fan favorite (believe me when I say I’m not sure if there are more Matthews fans or Marner fans here...) I’d estimate the fan base and media would be pretty happy if Toronto addressed 2 glaring off-season issues with 1 trade. 

 

On the other hand, however, I don’t believe Leafs management pulls the trigger on that trade. Brodie has only one season left before he’s a UFA, and JH only has 3 seasons. I think giving up a potential 7-8 year Marner contract for a year of Brodie and 3 of Gaudreau would be perceived as short sighted by Leaf management, and their fan base if next season doesn’t end with a cup. 

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Re: Kadri...

there’s a character issue there. I won’t go into detail. He doesn’t fit the mould of what BT is trying to build here. 

 

Re: Mangiapane...

Don’t put this kid in any trade. Having watched him play for the Barrie Colts, I believe he’s going to be better than anyone expected/projected. 

 

Re: Miller and Haula | William Karlsson | Jacob Trouba

Interesting propositions and targets. I like this kind of thinking. 

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3 hours ago, lou44291 said:

Re: Mangiapane...

Don’t put this kid in any trade. Having watched him play for the Barrie Colts, I believe he’s going to be better than anyone expected/projected. 

 

 

I know they are different players, but Debrincat was a player that put up similar numbers to Mangiapane in junior.

If Mangoapane could harness his shot a little bit, he could score 28 next season.

He's a shooter.

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15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Karlsson is good but not worth $6-mil or whatever he is going to get.  Seriously, Mangiapane can score anywhere from 20 to 30 next season... And should only cost $1.5-mil on a 2-year deal.  

WOW Mangiapane scores a few flashy goals and he is now a 20 to 30 goal player  Slow down. Bennett had a flashy 4 goal game and everyone got gaw gaw over that too.

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17 minutes ago, GM_3300 said:

WOW Mangiapane scores a few flashy goals and he is now a 20 to 30 goal player  Slow down. Bennett had a flashy 4 goal game and everyone got gaw gaw over that too.

 

Mangiapane has been a point producer in every league he's played in.

He did it in the CHL, AHL and has started to come alive in the NHL.

The fact that he's able to provide offense with limited minutes should provide some optimism.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Mangiapane has been a point producer in every league he's played in.

He did it in the CHL, AHL and has started to come alive in the NHL.

The fact that he's able to provide offense with limited minutes should provide some optimism.

Anointing Mangiapane the next Marty St.Louis is getting way ahead of the situation. He played 44 games with 8 goals and 5 assists. One could list any number of high scoring Juniors that fail over time in the NHL. Do I think he will fail not really but to buy into the claims floating around here is getting ridiculous for a player with 1/2 an NHL season.

He could have value here and he could have perceived value within a trade for a further advanced player.

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5 minutes ago, GM_3300 said:

Anointing Mangiapane the next Marty St.Louis is getting way ahead of the situation. He played 44 games with 8 goals and 5 assists. One could list any number of high scoring Juniors that fail over time in the NHL. Do I think he will fail not really but to buy into the claims floating around here is getting ridiculous for a player with 1/2 an NHL season.

He could have value here and he could have perceived value within a trade for a further advanced player.

 

Who said anything about MSL.  The fact that some people want to trade him before he plays a full season is more concerning.

He score 8 playing mostly limited minutes.

With 4th line players.

 

His perceived value is very low, since he is only a 1st year player with limited results.

He's not a C, nor a defensive standout.

Crazy to consider trading him at this point.

You would receive little value.

 

As far as his ceiling, compare him for a minute to Bennett.

He played 77 games and scored 18 goals in his best year, playing a lot of top 6 minutes.

If Bennett's stats improved from that year, he would be a top 6 player today.

If a full season of Mangiapane is 18 goals (not a stretch from his end of season results), then that's far from his perceived value today.

 

Mange and Bennett are very different players.  One has focused on grit to make up for lack of finish.  The other has focused on learning how to come out of the dirty areas with the puck and get a shot away.  

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I don't know why, but I have this sneaking suspicion that Chris Kreider is going to be one of Treliving's top targets this off season. We need to get bigger and faster and he checks both of those boxes. I did find it interesting that Kreider and Gaudreau were put on a line a the World Championships, with both taking turns on the right side. To add to that Chris Drury was the GM of Team USA and is also the AGM of the Rangers, so maybe there was a little bit of a showcase there.

 

It would probably cost a 1st plus a prospect like Kylington to get the deal done, but I could see them being interested in Brodie as they don't exactly have a strong defense. 

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