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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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3 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

Thought So flames were Pretty quiet at the Draft and i think that is more to do with the Cap space Then anything else

yep. now we pray on the weak..

 

Id be going to Toronto ..  saying , we get Kadri , Nylander ($11.46 M)

We give them TJ, Janko and Stone ($9.83M)

TO frees up another $1.6M

2 D under contract  replaced 

 

now they have 13.1 to sign Marner, and 2 D (again assuming they move Zaitsev with no money in )

 

then we only have to worry about moving Frolik in terms of money off the books (Neal aint happening ) 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

yep. now we pray on the weak..

 

Id be going to Toronto ..  saying , we get Kadri , Nylander ($11.46 M)

We give them TJ, Janko and Stone ($9.83M)

TO frees up another $1.6M

2 D under contract  replaced 

 

now they have 13.1 to sign Marner, and 2 D (again assuming they move Zaitsev with no money in )

 

then we only have to worry about moving Frolik in terms of money off the books (Neal aint happening ) 

 

 

 

Should we take Nylander + Zaitsev in a package?  TO probably doesn't want to deal with Zaitsev separately.

 

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6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Should we take Nylander + Zaitsev in a package?  TO probably doesn't want to deal with Zaitsev separately.

 

Nope cuz then the math doesn't work.. we'd be taking on too much, and the idea is to pressure them into a trade they don't want  want to make

If we're giving up Janko, we need a center ..and Kadri checks a lot of boxes , and this also allows us to shed a contract in Stone

We already have too many D.. 

 

On a personal level I have no interest in Zaitsev, not better than any of our top 6 right now so hed become the new Stone  

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15 minutes ago, Going4TheCup said:

The Cap is officially going to be 81.5 million dollars for next season, what do you think of the cap? 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-salary-cap-officially-set-81-5-million-2019-20/?fbclid=IwAR08mDQx7bAmZqk27kA_akmbkrQ1obabRRgPz5AtePIWC4zl6eU6qWUuVYQ

 

It bothers me a bit, but it will bother Holland a lot more.

We can buy out Stone and trade Brodie and Frolik.

They have 8m left with 9F, 8D and 1G signed.

UFA like Chaisson will be gone unless they trade Pooly.

They have to re-sign JarJar.

 

Makes the deal with Tkachuk shorter most likely, but Marner + Kapanen + Johnsson are going to kill TO.

Nobody is lining up yet for Zaitsev.

Marleau is gone, but that's not the only issue.

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37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It bothers me a bit, but it will bother Holland a lot more.

We can buy out Stone and trade Brodie and Frolik.

They have 8m left with 9F, 8D and 1G signed.

UFA like Chaisson will be gone unless they trade Pooly.

They have to re-sign JarJar.

 

Makes the deal with Tkachuk shorter most likely, but Marner + Kapanen + Johnsson are going to kill TO.

Nobody is lining up yet for Zaitsev.

Marleau is gone, but that's not the only issue.

It will take some manoeuvring , but I think we have to avoid buyouts .even Stone keeps 1.5 on the books for about 2 years ..Brower is still there ..that's 3mill in dead space 

 

Think we need to target low teams and just take whatever pick they give us ..  I can see Ottawa using a year at least of Stone 

 

Tkachuk will be interesting.. we have basically a 3 year window until Johnny is gone.. see if he takes wining over money .  Offer a 3 year bridge.  7m per .. likely won't happen but you can point at Toronto to show him what effects his cash in could have 

If Marner ends up bending Toronto over, the Tkachuk one could get ugly 

 

And ya..all moving Marleau did was let them sign Kap and Jonsson.. they got way bigger issues atill

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15 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

It will take some manoeuvring , but I think we have to avoid buyouts .even Stone keeps 1.5 on the books for about 2 years ..Brower is still there ..that's 3mill in dead space 

 

Think we need to target low teams and just take whatever pick they give us ..  I can see Ottawa using a year at least of Stone 

 

Tkachuk will be interesting.. we have basically a 3 year window until Johnny is gone.. see if he takes wining over money .  Offer a 3 year bridge.  7m per .. likely won't happen but you can point at Toronto to show him what effects his cash in could have 

If Marner ends up bending Toronto over, the Tkachuk one could get ugly 

 

And ya..all moving Marleau did was let them sign Kap and Jonsson.. they got way bigger issues atill

 

I don't agree.

Stone buyout is necessary.

You don't need that hanging over your head this year.

Sending him to STockton only saves $1m

We don't need him here.

Stone $1.16 + Valimaki $766k is better than $2.5 + $766k with Stone in Stockton.

 

But anyway, I want them to clear space for Tkachuk, whether that is 4 years or 8.

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6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't agree.

Stone buyout is necessary.

You don't need that hanging over your head this year.

Sending him to STockton only saves $1m

We don't need him here.

Stone $1.16 + Valimaki $766k is better than $2.5 + $766k with Stone in Stockton.

 

But anyway, I want them to clear space for Tkachuk, whether that is 4 years or 8.

I agree he needs to go, but I'm saying better to send him and a 4th to an Ottawa for like a 5th rounder 

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Not sure what Frolik is worth, can't just dump him off to Ottawa as he has a partial NTC. My guess is you see him going for a backup goalie, Reimer or Allen as possibilities. Not that I would love either, but the backup goalie UFA market is weak.

 

I look at MTL as the best fit for Brodie. I would love to get Danault, but seeing as though he's from Quebec that may be tough for them to do. Maybe they'd do Shaw?

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10 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Not sure what Frolik is worth, can't just dump him off to Ottawa as he has a partial NTC. My guess is you see him going for a backup goalie, Reimer or Allen as possibilities. Not that I would love either, but the backup goalie UFA market is weak.

 

I look at MTL as the best fit for Brodie. I would love to get Danault, but seeing as though he's from Quebec that may be tough for them to do. Maybe they'd do Shaw?

For the Ottawa dump I was talking about Stone .. Frolik and TJ for sure need to bring a player back ..can totally see the backup goalie scenario

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6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

For the Ottawa dump I was talking about Stone .. Frolik and TJ for sure need to bring a player back ..can totally see the backup goalie scenario

For sure, not throwing anything at your comment. My only mention of Frolik is I don't think at this point he has a ton of value and because of the NTC we can't just send him to a bad team like OTT

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2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I agree he needs to go, but I'm saying better to send him and a 4th to an Ottawa for like a 5th rounder 

 

There is vey little reason for Ottawa to take on a 7th defender for $3.5m.

Obviously, a trade is preferred, but there isn;t much of a market for overpaid defenders.

Ottawa would probably sign Phaneuf for $1.5m over taking on Stone.

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4 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Nope cuz then the math doesn't work.. we'd be taking on too much, and the idea is to pressure them into a trade they don't want  want to make

If we're giving up Janko, we need a center ..and Kadri checks a lot of boxes , and this also allows us to shed a contract in Stone

We already have too many D.. 

 

On a personal level I have no interest in Zaitsev, not better than any of our top 6 right now so hed become the new Stone  

 

Well for sure we don't want Zaitsev but he will help lower the value for the Leafs in a trade. 

 

Nylander for Brodie straight up is never going to happen but if they include Zaitsev as a cap dump... 

 

We would need to cut Stone off the payroll absolutely.  Stone vs Zaitsev, honestly too close to call.  I think Zaitsev is better but Stone's only got a year left.  Zaitsev is a long commitment.

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

There is vey little reason for Ottawa to take on a 7th defender for $3.5m.

Obviously, a trade is preferred, but there isn;t much of a market for overpaid defenders.

Ottawa would probably sign Phaneuf for $1.5m over taking on Stone.

See this is what I've always spoken of .. to us he's an overpaid #7. Only because of the depth we have built .

He's the same quality dman we acquired , and at that time he was a solid 3-4 on this team..even spent time on the top pair of I recall..but then he was surpassed , he did not regress

Ottawa? He'd be a 2nd pair easy..and $3.7 second pair is pretty cheap

It's a testament to our depth that he's an overpaid #7..not a condemnation of the player 

 

Heck even worst case , eat half his salary..you still come out ahead and he's off the books in one year not 2 

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9 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

See this is what I've always spoken of .. to us he's an overpaid #7. Only because of the depth we have built .

He's the same quality dman we acquired , and at that time he was a solid 3-4 on this team..even spent time on the top pair of I recall..but then he was surpassed , he did not regress

Ottawa? He'd be a 2nd pair easy..and $3.7 second pair is pretty cheap

It's a testament to our depth that he's an overpaid #7..not a condemnation of the player 

 

Heck even worst case , eat half his salary..you still come out ahead and he's off the books in one year not 2 

 

I get what you are saying, but he isn't any better than Fantenberg, who would not be a 2nd pairing D-man on a decent team.  Russell is better and I don't consider him a 2nd pairing guy.  If his value was there, he would have been traded before.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I get what you are saying, but he isn't any better than Fantenberg, who would not be a 2nd pairing D-man on a decent team.  Russell is better and I don't consider him a 2nd pairing guy.  If his value was there, he would have been traded before.

 

Thats one of BT biggest flaws, signing guys who aren’t RFA. It may also change this year where he is forced to sign Tkachuk to a horrible contract, based on other deals. 

 

But BT has a hard time evaluating true worth of borderline older players like Stone, Brouwer, and now Neal. He kind of overpaid on Ryan as well.

 

i think the cap should be in better position. Others will say all teams are going to be in this predicament but I feel like we need to be held to a better standard than most teams. 

 

I am slowly losing faith faith in Flames management. 

We don’t have much in the cupboard coming through and we continue to draft smaller guys. Anyway.... other teams that make the playoffs a lot seem to find the players to so why can’t we?

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Overpaying UFA's isn't and never will be exclusive to only the Flames

 

Lucic signed 6x7

Eriksson signed 6x6

Okposo 6x7

Pylon Jake Gardiner will sign for north of 6 on a 7 year deal

Injury prone Skinner just signed for 9x8

Hayes has never put 60 points and makes 7.14

 

I could go on and on. The thing is if youre shopping for UFA's you will overpay, like it or not. I too am frustrated with the Stone, Neal, Brouwer contracts, but for us to say this only happens in Calgary is very unfair

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I am not saying it only happens in Calgary but that it is and shouldn’t be, especially after the Brouwer situation. 

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9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Thats one of BT biggest flaws, signing guys who aren’t RFA. It may also change this year where he is forced to sign Tkachuk to a horrible contract, based on other deals. 

 

But BT has a hard time evaluating true worth of borderline older players like Stone, Brouwer, and now Neal. He kind of overpaid on Ryan as well.

 

i think the cap should be in better position. Others will say all teams are going to be in this predicament but I feel like we need to be held to a better standard than most teams. 

 

I am slowly losing faith faith in Flames management. 

We don’t have much in the cupboard coming through and we continue to draft smaller guys. Anyway.... other teams that make the playoffs a lot seem to find the players to so why can’t we?

Here is the thing. Every single team has a bad contract or 2. You pay what the market dictates.

He didnt just make up the number on Stone, he signed him after he had spoken with other teams.

At the time , we needed him.we paid what it took to sign him here and not let the other team get him

Same for Ryan, he was dealing with I believe at least 3 or 4 serious offers . We wanted that player and what he brings 

Even with smaller players , we are not bucking the trend here ..the undisputed number one overall is 5'10 180 lbs .. he'd have been a 3rd rounder five years ago

All I'm saying is this is a truth of doing business in the NHL. BT took us to the 2nd best regular season roster in the NHL last year, without an over $7M player ,  so he definitely is targeting the right players

It's easy to criticize deals in hindsight..like Neal , but nobody saw that coming..and it may even still be a blip..time will tell

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31 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Thats one of BT biggest flaws, signing guys who aren’t RFA. It may also change this year where he is forced to sign Tkachuk to a horrible contract, based on other deals. 

 

But BT has a hard time evaluating true worth of borderline older players like Stone, Brouwer, and now Neal. He kind of overpaid on Ryan as well.

 

i think the cap should be in better position. Others will say all teams are going to be in this predicament but I feel like we need to be held to a better standard than most teams. 

 

I am slowly losing faith faith in Flames management. 

We don’t have much in the cupboard coming through and we continue to draft smaller guys. Anyway.... other teams that make the playoffs a lot seem to find the players to so why can’t we?

You can't compare the Neal contract to the Brouwer contract at all. Neal had the pedigree and numbers to back up the signing, and if he had continued with the play and point totals that was expected this wouldn't be an issue.

Right now Ryan is a bit of an overpayment but he seems to be finding his form. Frolik will be hard to move but even if he stays it wont be the worst deal on the ice. Stone for pick(s) or a buyout may be the only options, and I'm not sure if theres any value in Czarnik.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Here is the thing. Every single team has a bad contract or 2. You pay what the market dictates.

He didnt just make up the number on Stone, he signed him after he had spoken with other teams.

At the time , we needed him.we paid what it took to sign him here and not let the other team get him

Same for Ryan, he was dealing with I believe at least 3 or 4 serious offers . We wanted that player and what he brings 

Even with smaller players , we are not bucking the trend here ..the undisputed number one overall is 5'10 180 lbs .. he'd have been a 3rd rounder five years ago

All I'm saying is this is a truth of doing business in the NHL. BT took us to the 2nd best regular season roster in the NHL last year, without an over $7M player ,  so he definitely is targeting the right players

It's easy to criticize deals in hindsight..like Neal , but nobody saw that coming..and it may even still be a blip..time will tell

 

Sure it is good that they were #2 in the league but I am not one to silver line it that way. I saw the flaws from day1 and they got 2nd overall despite it. I think we see the 2nd half team more next year than what we saw in the 1st half. We went from no playoffs to one of the best lines in hockey to getting them shut down. Teams will be ready for them this year. They’ll get 65-80 points, but not 85-100. 

 

We will make the playoffs so management and the owners will be happy. 

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