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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

It's funny, going into the off season I would have said that defense was the deepest position on the team, but with one injury, I don't know that that can be said anymore.

 

I also have more faith in our young forwards to take another step, so I don't have much worry about the forward group. Another RHS forward would be nice, but not necessary.

 

It is sounding more and more like Valimaki is gone for the season. I was looking forward to having a D core that didn't require much if any sheltering. I am not sure that is going to be the case anymore.

 

That's why I would move Frolik for a bottom pairing defenseman.

 

I hope to be proven wrong during the season, especially with some callups making a strong case.

What I see right now is Dube, Czarnik, and Quine being about the best we have for depth.

That isn;t exactly inspiring confidence in me yet.

JH-Mony-Lindy

Tkachuk-Backlund-Bennett

Lucic-Ryan-Mangiapane (speculated by BP)

??-Janko-??

 

I'm considering Frolik a cap casuality, so Dube-Janko-Czarnik doesn;t inspire me much.

And that's assuming Bennett can grab and hold the #2 RW spot.

If he can't, then who have we got to fill that spot.

Lucic-Ryan-Bennett would be okay I guess, but without Frolik, the 2nd line suffers.

Czarnik was okay in spot duty, but his defensive game needs work; gets pushed off the puck too easy.

Dube is a study in half-ready.

Was good enough to make the team, but not good enough to stay.

He has to take a big jump this season to be considered a regular.

 

We've only really lost 2 players from the bottom 6 from last season; Neal and Hath.

They tallied 18 goals between them compared.

Add that to the 16 Frolik scored and we are possible down 34 goals that has to be made up by replacements.

Mangiapane and Lucic combined might make up for 16.

That leaves 18 for Dube and Czarnik, both of which are currently tweeners.

Possible, but that's as big or bigger a risk as Kylington as your 6/7D.

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For me I have more faith in Bennett, Dube, Czarnik and Mangiapane taking another step and being very effective in key roles, than I do in Kylington, Davidson or MacDonald.

 

I think Bennett can put up solid numbers if given more of a chance in the top 6.

 

I don't think Czarnik was really given a fair chance last year, he was bounced in and out of the lineup and rarely played on the same line. I think he is capable of providing a lot more.

 

Mangiapane will take another step with a season of NHL duty under his belt.

 

Dube played most of his games last year injured at the NHL level, and he was a PPG player in the AHL in his first season out of junior. I think he will surprise a lot of people this season.

 

With Kylington in the lineup, there is one guy that you have to shelter and can only really play him about 10-13 mins a game. That puts extra strain on the other 5 guys.

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16 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

For me I have more faith in Bennett, Dube, Czarnik and Mangiapane taking another step and being very effective in key roles, than I do in Kylington, Davidson or MacDonald.

 

I think Bennett can put up solid numbers if given more of a chance in the top 6.

 

I don't think Czarnik was really given a fair chance last year, he was bounced in and out of the lineup and rarely played on the same line. I think he is capable of providing a lot more.

 

Mangiapane will take another step with a season of NHL duty under his belt.

 

Dube played most of his games last year injured at the NHL level, and he was a PPG player in the AHL in his first season out of junior. I think he will surprise a lot of people this season.

 

With Kylington in the lineup, there is one guy that you have to shelter and can only really play him about 10-13 mins a game. That puts extra strain on the other 5 guys.

Call me crazy but I think a line of Lucic, Backlund and Frolik would be a very good line together, expensive but good LOL.

Another line Peters could experiment with would be Tkachuk, Bennett, Ryan or Tkachuk, Ryan, Bennett.

I still think they need to trade off Jankowski to gain some cap space but get Dube onto the team playing his best position being C. Let a line of Mangiapane, Dube, Czarnik play 4th line minutes and be there for any incurring injuries on other lines. Spares Lomberg and Quine.

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53 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

For me I have more faith in Bennett, Dube, Czarnik and Mangiapane taking another step and being very effective in key roles, than I do in Kylington, Davidson or MacDonald.

 

I think Bennett can put up solid numbers if given more of a chance in the top 6.

 

I don't think Czarnik was really given a fair chance last year, he was bounced in and out of the lineup and rarely played on the same line. I think he is capable of providing a lot more.

 

Mangiapane will take another step with a season of NHL duty under his belt.

 

Dube played most of his games last year injured at the NHL level, and he was a PPG player in the AHL in his first season out of junior. I think he will surprise a lot of people this season.

 

With Kylington in the lineup, there is one guy that you have to shelter and can only really play him about 10-13 mins a game. That puts extra strain on the other 5 guys.

 

I agree with Mangiapane taking a step forward.

He has so every year.

How he is played might impact that though; playing with Lucic is liekly at this point.

Bennett has to do more to show he is a top 6 player.

No doubt playing with Tkachuk and Backlund will give him more opportunity, but he needs to figure out his game.

Tkachuk draws penalties, so there isn't a need for Bennett to get in there and even up the penalties.

There is no need for it.

It's a wasted chance.

 

Czarnik needs to show he is more than a speedy guy with a good shot.

I didn't see the defensive awareness.

He really wasn't much better than Neal, IMHO.

Had a few games in a row that looked good, but never followed it up.

Much like Quine.

Can he make up for Hathaway's produiction?

 

I know this sounds strange, but I would like for BT to trade Brodie for a 2nd pairing guy that has a RHS.

Ras has shown he can take most of the top pair minutes with Gio, but having another RHS to sub in would help.

I believe Ras can play about 18 minutes comfortably, so just need about 2-3 minutes from someone else in the top pair.

That person could also round out the 3rd pair, giving more coverage for Kylington.

Really that is my biggest fear.

Kylington-Brodie or Kylington-Ras does not instill as much confidence.

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13 hours ago, JTech780 said:

It's funny, going into the off season I would have said that defense was the deepest position on the team, but with one injury, I don't know that that can be said anymore.

 

Our top 4 should be,

 

Giordano - Anderson

Hanifin - Hamonic

 

Anderson has outplayed Brodie and has potential to trend even higher if given the chance.  We shouldn't stop him from being his best.  This leaves Brodie as bottom pair veteran D and this is a problem from a cap perspective and from the perspective that it will drain Brodie's trade value.  We need to convert Brodie into a Kadri-level talent in return.  Sure, trade Frolik for a $2-mil veteran bottom pair guy as replacement. 

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49 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Our top 4 should be,

 

Giordano - Anderson

Hanifin - Hamonic

 

Anderson has outplayed Brodie and has potential to trend even higher if given the chance.  We shouldn't stop him from being his best.  This leaves Brodie as bottom pair veteran D and this is a problem from a cap perspective and from the perspective that it will drain Brodie's trade value.  We need to convert Brodie into a Kadri-level talent in return.  Sure, trade Frolik for a $2-mil veteran bottom pair guy as replacement. 

 

That would be the best of both worlds.

If Brodie alone could bring back a Zucker-level player, or Brodie-Janko could bring back a Kadri-level player, then we have resolved the center depth and added a top 6 player to round out the top 9.  Leaving Frolik to be used to bring back a RHS D to help Ras and provide stability in the bottom pair.

Or consider more balanced minutes between the top and 2nd pair.  

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55 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Our top 4 should be,

 

Giordano - Anderson

Hanifin - Hamonic

 

Anderson has outplayed Brodie and has potential to trend even higher if given the chance.  We shouldn't stop him from being his best.  This leaves Brodie as bottom pair veteran D and this is a problem from a cap perspective and from the perspective that it will drain Brodie's trade value.  We need to convert Brodie into a Kadri-level talent in return.  Sure, trade Frolik for a $2-mil veteran bottom pair guy as replacement. 

 

The more I think about it the more I am not as keen on having Andersson playing on the top line. It is a big ask for a 2nd year NHL player to go from 16mins a night to 22mins+. Brodie was also much better than he gets credit for, even from me. He does drive me crazy at times, but he still is a very effective top pairing defenseman. 

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41 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

The more I think about it the more I am not as keen on having Andersson playing on the top line. It is a big ask for a 2nd year NHL player to go from 16mins a night to 22mins+. Brodie was also much better than he gets credit for, even from me. He does drive me crazy at times, but he still is a very effective top pairing defenseman. 

They need to spread the maturity and experience around on this defense group.

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4 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

The more I think about it the more I am not as keen on having Andersson playing on the top line. It is a big ask for a 2nd year NHL player to go from 16mins a night to 22mins+. Brodie was also much better than he gets credit for, even from me. He does drive me crazy at times, but he still is a very effective top pairing defenseman. 

I'd also say that Brodie is a good complimentary player, but he isn't a great defensive stabilizer.  He works well when paired with one, which is why he works so well with Gio (but not with guys like Hamilton).  I would be nervous putting him with a relatively inexperienced player on the 3rd pairing; a Kylington-Brodie pair has the potential to be a disaster.  Anderson on the other hand is a calmer, more complete player who has played very well with just about everybody he is paired with.  Could he replace Brodie on the top pairing? Absolutely.  Would he be effective paired with Kylington? I believe so.  Our defense as a whole is better off with an Anderson-Kylington 3rd pairing than a Kylington-Brodie 3rd pairing.

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2 hours ago, ABC923 said:

I'd also say that Brodie is a good complimentary player, but he isn't a great defensive stabilizer.  He works well when paired with one, which is why he works so well with Gio (but not with guys like Hamilton).  I would be nervous putting him with a relatively inexperienced player on the 3rd pairing; a Kylington-Brodie pair has the potential to be a disaster.  Anderson on the other hand is a calmer, more complete player who has played very well with just about everybody he is paired with.  Could he replace Brodie on the top pairing? Absolutely.  Would he be effective paired with Kylington? I believe so.  Our defense as a whole is better off with an Anderson-Kylington 3rd pairing than a Kylington-Brodie 3rd pairing.

 

If that's the case, then we need to move on from Brodie.

He's a vet and should be able to play with any younger player and stabilize the pair.

If he can't then he's not worth it.

He's a year rom UFA, so make the trade or start the transition now.

 

My own thoughts about Brodie is that he can only play RD with Gio.

He played well enough on LD with Prout.

He didn't look quite as good with Fantenberg.

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On 9/4/2019 at 9:29 AM, JTech780 said:

For me I have more faith in Bennett, Dube, Czarnik and Mangiapane taking another step and being very effective in key roles, than I do in Kylington, Davidson or MacDonald.

 

I think Bennett can put up solid numbers if given more of a chance in the top 6.

 

I don't think Czarnik was really given a fair chance last year, he was bounced in and out of the lineup and rarely played on the same line. I think he is capable of providing a lot more.

 

Mangiapane will take another step with a season of NHL duty under his belt.

 

Dube played most of his games last year injured at the NHL level, and he was a PPG player in the AHL in his first season out of junior. I think he will surprise a lot of people this season.

 

With Kylington in the lineup, there is one guy that you have to shelter and can only really play him about 10-13 mins a game. That puts extra strain on the other 5 guys.

Kylington was hugely improved last season.  He is ready for a regular role.

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On 9/4/2019 at 6:57 PM, travel_dude said:

 

If that's the case, then we need to move on from Brodie.

He's a vet and should be able to play with any younger player and stabilize the pair.

If he can't then he's not worth it.

He's a year rom UFA, so make the trade or start the transition now.

 

My own thoughts about Brodie is that he can only play RD with Gio.

He played well enough on LD with Prout.

He didn't look quite as good with Fantenberg.

I like Brodie, but I think you are right. Now is the time to move on from him. The problem seems to be getting value for him. We all know BT had a viable deal for him and it fell through. I can only imagine how much effort was put into that trade, and how many other offers were once possible. Kadri really screwed us IMO.

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Any interest in Pavel Zacha? He's agreed to terms with a khl team, but until he signs he can still back out.  With NJ adding Hughes this year, he's likely to be their 4C, so they don't want to pay him.  He's probably looking for a change in scenery.  Could be an upgrade over Janko.  Maybe offer Brodie+Janko+3rd for Zacha+Butcher.  This move would likely clear a bit of cap space (not much), but give us a small upgrade over Janko and a similar style player to Brodie who could anchor the third pairing.  NJ gets a slight upgrade in Brodie, and a replacement for Zacha who is unlikely to suit up for them this season anyway.  They also have no second or third round picks this season, so the draft pick may hold more value for them as well.

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2 hours ago, ABC923 said:

Any interest in Pavel Zacha? He's agreed to terms with a khl team, but until he signs he can still back out.  With NJ adding Hughes this year, he's likely to be their 4C, so they don't want to pay him.  He's probably looking for a change in scenery.  Could be an upgrade over Janko.  Maybe offer Brodie+Janko+3rd for Zacha+Butcher.  This move would likely clear a bit of cap space (not much), but give us a small upgrade over Janko and a similar style player to Brodie who could anchor the third pairing.  NJ gets a slight upgrade in Brodie, and a replacement for Zacha who is unlikely to suit up for them this season anyway.  They also have no second or third round picks this season, so the draft pick may hold more value for them as well.

 

I haven't seen much of Zacha.  Does anyone know why it hasn't worked out for him?  Why he bust?

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37 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I haven't seen much of Zacha.  Does anyone know why it hasn't worked out for him?  Why he bust?

I'd say because they didn't let him develop and just threw him into the fire.

His first post draft season was with the Sting, then he was gifted a top 6 spot that he clearly wasn't ready for. Last year they demoted him to the A after a couple yrs in the NHL.

Off the top of my head, but something like that. He needed seasoning, but the big club was so bad that even I should have went for a PTO. lol

 

edit

Also, he was drafted way too high at 6 oa. Late 1st - early 2nd would have been more accurate. He was never a dominant scorer with the Sting.

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12 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'd say because they didn't let him develop and just threw him into the fire.

His first post draft season was with the Sting, then he was gifted a top 6 spot that he clearly wasn't ready for. Last year they demoted him to the A after a couple yrs in the NHL.

Off the top of my head, but something like that. He needed seasoning, but the big club was so bad that even I should have went for a PTO. lol

 

edit

Also, he was drafted way too high at 6 oa. Late 1st - early 2nd would have been more accurate. He was never a dominant scorer with the Sting.

 

Can we rebuild him?  

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2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Can we rebuild him?  

He's got good size, He was a reliable 2 way C for the Sting, he does a lot of things well. But he's a bottom 6, not a top 6 C and the Devils for some reason thought they were getting a Top C. Poor scouting.

Personally, I'd take a chance on him. Nothing in his time with the Sting showed he could put a team on his back. And that was jr. How the Devils thought he could baffles me.

They put a lot of weight on him and he couldn't produce. That's more about horrendous hockey ops than it is him imo.

If he were told the expectations were far lower I honestly think that he would be fine.

For Janxy, sure. I'd do that move. They both have their warts, but Zacha would still have the higher ceiling imo.

The option to move Zacha to wing would likely be a better option too.

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About Zacha from Elite Prospects:

 

Pavel Zacha is an offensively dynamic center with the size, speed, and skill to make a significant impact on the game. He can play physical, but is at his best when using his high-end offensive abilities, such as his shot, stickhandling, and footspeed, to generate numbers in the opposition's end of the ice. All-in-all, Zacha is a lethal weapon that can be depended upon to create, and finish, dangerous scoring chances whenever he is on the ice. (Curtis Joe, EP 2015)

 

He was listed anywhere from 6-15 for most draft analysts in 2015. 

 

He had 13 goals and 12 assists for 25 points last year in 61 games. That would be good for 17 goals over 82 games. An increase of 5 goals over each of the previous 2 seasons. He has typically been a + player or close to even at all levels other than NHL, particularly 3 seasons ago. He appears to be primarily an offensively minded C with good size and speed. When Jersey has guys like Hischier and Hughes at C already, Zacha being played 3rd line would likely reduce his output. He put up 28 goals and 64 points in 51 games his final junior year.

 

My guess would be that if you played him with more offensive players in a more sheltered role, you could see more output. Something like Magiapane / Zacha / Czarnik type situation as a third line. I honestly would like to see this as a possibility. Don't know if it would work though. Janks would need to be moved and likely also Frolik to make lines stable.

Johnny, Mony, Benny - Chucky, Backs, Lindy (Still reliable defence but a little more O) -  Mange, Zacha, Czarnik (Sheltered, speedy offence with decent D coverage) - Lucic, Ryan, DSP (Physical / Energy) - Dube (Spare swap with Ryan or Zacha depending on opponent). Just my thoughts though.

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In regards to trading Janko for Zacha I would prefer to keep Janko as we know what we have and Peters knows how to play him. And hoping Janko takes another step forward.

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10 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

About Zacha from Elite Prospects:

 

Pavel Zacha is an offensively dynamic center with the size, speed, and skill to make a significant impact on the game. He can play physical, but is at his best when using his high-end offensive abilities, such as his shot, stickhandling, and footspeed, to generate numbers in the opposition's end of the ice. All-in-all, Zacha is a lethal weapon that can be depended upon to create, and finish, dangerous scoring chances whenever he is on the ice. (Curtis Joe, EP 2015)

 

He was listed anywhere from 6-15 for most draft analysts in 2015. 

 

He had 13 goals and 12 assists for 25 points last year in 61 games. That would be good for 17 goals over 82 games. An increase of 5 goals over each of the previous 2 seasons. He has typically been a + player or close to even at all levels other than NHL, particularly 3 seasons ago. He appears to be primarily an offensively minded C with good size and speed. When Jersey has guys like Hischier and Hughes at C already, Zacha being played 3rd line would likely reduce his output. He put up 28 goals and 64 points in 51 games his final junior year.

 

My guess would be that if you played him with more offensive players in a more sheltered role, you could see more output. Something like Magiapane / Zacha / Czarnik type situation as a third line. I honestly would like to see this as a possibility. Don't know if it would work though. Janks would need to be moved and likely also Frolik to make lines stable.

Johnny, Mony, Benny - Chucky, Backs, Lindy (Still reliable defence but a little more O) -  Mange, Zacha, Czarnik (Sheltered, speedy offence with decent D coverage) - Lucic, Ryan, DSP (Physical / Energy) - Dube (Spare swap with Ryan or Zacha depending on opponent). Just my thoughts though.

With all due respect to elite prospects, he wasn't like that in jr. A C has more D responsibility so when he crossed the pond I could see that is what he was working on. So it's almost automatic that the O #'s come down.

64 pts in 51 games is definitely nothing to write home about as a 19yo 6 oa playing jr. Personally, I couldn't understand why he was ranked so high, and I saw him first hand a lot.

He's a reliable C that plays a safe game with erring on the side of caution, which is what you want. For me(when he was with the Sting), you could see he's a good player, but calling him a lethal weapon? JFC. Please. Who were they watching?

He's pretty well rounded is all that I would say.

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22 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

In regards to trading Janko for Zacha I would prefer to keep Janko as we know what we have and Peters knows how to play him. And hoping Janko takes another step forward.

Jankowski will be 25 in a week. Zacha's 22. Not feeling Jankowski improving much beyond what he is now.

Zacha has a better toolbox of skills imho. And uses his size better.

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35 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Jankowski will be 25 in a week. Zacha's 22. Not feeling Jankowski improving much beyond what he is now.

 

          132bcf85d27002e8ff8a04d4dde12573.png

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:rolleyes:...   btw,...  Fester was not a typo...   More of a Freudian slip...   Feaster always reminded me of Uncle Fester from the Addams Family...

 

          fabef61f8974e88e00202500035af0df.png

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Report out of the Czech Republic today has Zacha and the Devils close to an extension. 

 

Janko for Zacha would have been a slam dunk trade for the Flames but I don't think the Devils plan on letting him go. Wouldn't make sense unless you got an overpay and he fits right in with what they are building. 

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