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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Gio, Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk (PP1). All one line. You stop them and you stop the Flames. It’s only two games but it’s trending that way again. That’s what I am getting at. The coach is doing almost exactly what didn’t work at the end of the year.

 

the first line will get its looks and points until later when it gets tough again. It has happened two years in a row. 

Can we get the team playing up to near their potential and settled in before worrying about the mixmaster?  A month from now there could be a trade or two, plus a call-up or two, without even considering injuries.  There are many, many months to try different things if by some miracle this line-up stays intact as is...... 

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12 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Can we get the team playing up to near their potential and settled in before worrying about the mixmaster?  A month from now there could be a trade or two, plus a call-up or two, without even considering injuries.  There are many, many months to try different things if by some miracle this line-up stays intact as is...... 

 

Well, we said that last year too. And the only real difference is Lucic and Rieder. So this is the time it should be done, when other teams are still getting their skating legs and haven’t fully ramped up their play.

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Gio, Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk (PP1). All one line. You stop them and you stop the Flames. It’s only two games but it’s trending that way again. That’s what I am getting at. The coach is doing almost exactly what didn’t work at the end of the year.

 

I get it, Tkachuk is on line two but he got a lot from PP1, and extra attacker minutes.

 

i think they’re great players, but 

the first line plus Tkachuk will get its looks and points until later (ASB) when it gets tough again. It has happened two years in a row. 

 

I want more and think BP can get more out of this group if he mixed it up better. He’s not really coaching past keeping the lines the same. He’s running with guys who are skating and then what? 

 

Mix it up so there is another line that is a real threat.

 

You can load up a PP unit or water them down.

Game 1 worked loading them up with 2 goals scored.

Game 2 didn;t work.

Last year they managed to have a decent amount of PP goals from that unit.

Maybe not as many goals as some team's top unit, but a pretty decent return.

The problem is lack of success from the 2nd unit.

It was garbage last year and is starting to look the same.

 

I guess I don't see it the same as you.

The Flames didn't fade when the games got tougher, they faded in the playoffs.

The last full month they went 8-2.

Gio, Backlund and Tkachuk unable to stop the AVS top line so we had to play Monahan against MacKinnon at times.

 

Last year the season started with a thud.

It wasn;t until late October that we started playing better.

 

Anyway, enjoy the season.  

There are many ways to win, but more ways to lose.

We found a winning formula in spite of goaltending last season.

 

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13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You can load up a PP unit or water them down.

Game 1 worked loading them up with 2 goals scored.

Game 2 didn;t work.

Last year they managed to have a decent amount of PP goals from that unit.

Maybe not as many goals as some team's top unit, but a pretty decent return.

The problem is lack of success from the 2nd unit.

It was garbage last year and is starting to look the same.

 

I guess I don't see it the same as you.

The Flames didn't fade when the games got tougher, they faded in the playoffs.

The last full month they went 8-2.

Gio, Backlund and Tkachuk unable to stop the AVS top line so we had to play Monahan against MacKinnon at times.

 

Last year the season started with a thud.

It wasn;t until late October that we started playing better.

 

Anyway, enjoy the season.  

There are many ways to win, but more ways to lose.

We found a winning formula in spite of goaltending last season.

 

 

I feel like they didn’t fade because they played a lot of teams outside of the playoff bubble. The top line got some points but were not dominating anymore. The Ryan line carried the team into the playoffs to help that 8-2 record. 

 

I am just worried we are going down the same path doing nearly the same thing. Good to be 2nd overall, but not if it leads to shut down Gaudreau and you shut down the Flames. It’ll be a lot like the Iggy days. 

 

I want to see some experimenting, the coach going with different looks to try get three powerful lines and not just one plus Tkachuk again, with Ryan carrying the mail occasionally.

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16 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Exactly the case.  His attitude forced a trade because he was not professional and poison in the room, I'd expect.  

I think we have seen Treliving sign a number of UFAs with all the right intentions but the wrong results. I believe a GM and a Coach have to be on the same page when it come to the type of team both should want. We all know the coach trail that has been created so hopefully Peters is here to stay for at least the next 3 years as well. Peters IMO had the right idea putting Lindholm a RHS, C/ RW with Gaudreau and Monahan, no argument here. This takes you to the 3M and it is also hard to argue against the duo of Backlund and Frolik that have played well together for years plus brought Tkachuk along. Peters tried to break this up but kept coming back to it, first indication Neal wasn't going to work out well here. Bennett, Jankowski and Neal was a further disaster and kept getting worse. This offseason was the time to fix the problem and Treliving did, like I said hopefully Lucic does well for us. I don't think we are at the point where any of our forward lines are ideal except for the top line again. How things develop or unfolds remains to be seen.

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3 minutes ago, GM_3300 said:

I think we have seen Treliving sign a number of UFAs with all the right intentions but the wrong results. I believe a GM and a Coach have to be on the same page when it come to the type of team both should want. We all know the coach trail that has been created so hopefully Peters is here to stay for at least the next 3 years as well. Peters IMO had the right idea putting Lindholm a RHS, C/ RW with Gaudreau and Monahan, no argument here. This takes you to the 3M and it is also hard to argue against the duo of Backlund and Frolik that have played well together for years plus brought Tkachuk along. Peters tried to break this up but kept coming back to it, first indication Neal wasn't going to work out well here. Bennett, Jankowski and Neal was a further disaster and kept getting worse. This offseason was the time to fix the problem and Treliving did, like I said hopefully Lucic does well for us. I don't think we are at the point where any of our forward lines are ideal except for the top line again. How things develop or unfolds remains to be seen.

 

Neal doesn't add defensive responsibility to any line he plays on, so he was only going to be top 6 if he scored.

He didn't.

 

I'm not super happy with playing Lucic 13 minutes a night, but he does a few things well.

Between him and Bennett, the Nucks saw a lot of hits on the forecheck.

Made them a bit more rushed.

Allowed smaller guys to forecheck without hitting because they saw shadows coming towards them.

JH stole the puck twice that way.

 

I would like to see a road version of the lines that isn't just special teams affected.

Who is ideal for Lucic - Frolik may be the most responsible guy to play with him.  Maybe Janko as the C.

Leaves a more skilled line of Mangiapane-Ryan-Rieder (if you play Bennett with Backlund).

Or a line of Bennett-Ryan-Mangiapane, if you use Rieder up with Backlund.

 

Sure the 3M line is great.  No question.  What I do think is that BP needs to rethink the Lucic line.

It would improve the other lines I think.

And we aren't expecting Bennett and Mangiapane to survive playing with Lucic.

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3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Neal doesn't add defensive responsibility to any line he plays on, so he was only going to be top 6 if he scored.

He didn't.

 

I'm not super happy with playing Lucic 13 minutes a night, but he does a few things well.

Between him and Bennett, the Nucks saw a lot of hits on the forecheck.

Made them a bit more rushed.

Allowed smaller guys to forecheck without hitting because they saw shadows coming towards them.

JH stole the puck twice that way.

 

I would like to see a road version of the lines that isn't just special teams affected.

Who is ideal for Lucic - Frolik may be the most responsible guy to play with him.  Maybe Janko as the C.

Leaves a more skilled line of Mangiapane-Ryan-Rieder (if you play Bennett with Backlund).

Or a line of Bennett-Ryan-Mangiapane, if you use Rieder up with Backlund.

 

Sure the 3M line is great.  No question.  What I do think is that BP needs to rethink the Lucic line.

It would improve the other lines I think.

And we aren't expecting Bennett and Mangiapane to survive playing with Lucic.

Enough about Neal. Move on

Tough call regarding these lines, all guesswork right now. I don't prefer Bennett on RW but with Lucic here we are forced to move him there IMO. Personally I would just leave Lucic on the 4th line and use him on the 2nd power play, take what we get from him.

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I think it's worth pointing out that not 1 element of the bottom 6 is the same this year. There is not even a pair of players the same, it's brand new across the board.

 

Making decisions or trying to predict trends knowing that, based on 2 games, is a pretty pointless exercise IMO. Not to mention the key part of the 2nd line missed basically all of training camp. 

 

if you were expecting this team firing on all cylinders by game 2, that was quite misguided. 

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1 hour ago, GM_3300 said:

Enough about Neal. Move on

Tough call regarding these lines, all guesswork right now. I don't prefer Bennett on RW but with Lucic here we are forced to move him there IMO. Personally I would just leave Lucic on the 4th line and use him on the 2nd power play, take what we get from him.

 

You brought him up, I commented on what he is.

 

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1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

You brought him up, I commented on what he is.

 

I wasn't soliciting another unnecessary comment again either.

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7 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think it's worth pointing out that not 1 element of the bottom 6 is the same this year. There is not even a pair of players the same, it's brand new across the board.

 

Making decisions or trying to predict trends knowing that, based on 2 games, is a pretty pointless exercise IMO. Not to mention the key part of the 2nd line missed basically all of training camp. 

 

if you were expecting this team firing on all cylinders by game 2, that was quite misguided. 

 

Good post cross...

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7 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think it's worth pointing out that not 1 element of the bottom 6 is the same this year. There is not even a pair of players the same, it's brand new across the board.

 

Making decisions or trying to predict trends knowing that, based on 2 games, is a pretty pointless exercise IMO. Not to mention the key part of the 2nd line missed basically all of training camp. 

 

if you were expecting this team firing on all cylinders by game 2, that was quite misguided. 

Is this maybe why we can't stay out of the penalty box right now? Finding consistency, getting used to linemates?

Sorry for getting off topic, but right now, I'd say it's our biggest issue. Affects everything else.

2 games of being penalty-riddled are definitely hard to fire cylinders. lol

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42 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Is this maybe why we can't stay out of the penalty box right now? Finding consistency, getting used to linemates?

Sorry for getting off topic, but right now, I'd say it's our biggest issue. Affects everything else.

2 games of being penalty-riddled are definitely hard to fire cylinders. lol

 

We need to send an apology to the officials for the Wideman incident!

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On 10/6/2019 at 5:25 PM, robrob74 said:

 

Well, we said that last year too. And the only real difference is Lucic and Rieder. So this is the time it should be done, when other teams are still getting their skating legs and haven’t fully ramped up their play.

i couldn't agree with you more.. the more games we get into the season.. the less likely we are going to experiment and have time to let experiment settle in.. it won't work if we're scratching for points and we can only try things a game or two at a time.. professional athletes are creatures of habit and it's very rare anything connects right away.. It won't happen in practice because practices in-season are more specific driven.. 

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I don't think the issues with WPG's defense can be understated.

Morrissey and Buff out.

Kulikov taking personal leave.

 

They went from a strong D last season to one of the worst.

There has to be a trade there.

As good as Brodie has looked so far, we are not re-signing him next season.

The team can't just be about this year.

Does Brodie bring back enough by himself?

Have to bring back a lesser D-man as part of the package.

 

Or WPG is not the right partner.

There is a chance Ehlers is available, but is he even the right fit here.

Love the skills and speed, but he isn't exactly lighting it up.

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1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

I don't think the issues with WPG's defense can be understated.

Morrissey and Buff out.

Kulikov taking personal leave.

 

They went from a strong D last season to one of the worst.

There has to be a trade there.

As good as Brodie has looked so far, we are not re-signing him next season.

The team can't just be about this year.

Does Brodie bring back enough by himself?

Have to bring back a lesser D-man as part of the package.

 

Or WPG is not the right partner.

There is a chance Ehlers is available, but is he even the right fit here.

Love the skills and speed, but he isn't exactly lighting it up.

 

If anything we should be adding defense. Friedman has Mark Pysyk available in his 31 Thoughts blog today. I would look at Frolik for Pysyk, we have to retain cap to make it work and send Kylington down and recall Quine, but that is the move I would like to see.

 

I just don't us and Winnipeg as good trade partners as we both need players in the same position.

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34 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

If anything we should be adding defense. Friedman has Mark Pysyk available in his 31 Thoughts blog today. I would look at Frolik for Pysyk, we have to retain cap to make it work and send Kylington down and recall Quine, but that is the move I would like to see.

 

I just don't us and Winnipeg as good trade partners as we both need players in the same position.

 

WPG has lots of young D.

None with any great amount of experience, but not any worse (IMHO) than Stone.

Sure, trade Pysyk for Frolik, but that doesn't mean Kylington is redundant.

It would, however, cushion the blow by trading Brodie for Roslovic and Spacek.

Or if you don't go with two forwards, drop Spacek and add Poolman.

 

 

 

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On 10/7/2019 at 9:32 AM, travel_dude said:

 

Neal doesn't add defensive responsibility to any line he plays on, so he was only going to be top 6 if he scored.

He didn't.

 

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/oilers-james-neal-sets-franchise-record-with-four-goal-game-015944280.html

 

What exactly does it take to get a GM fired these days anyway

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3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Fire the GM for signing him to a bloated deal?

Fire the GM because Neal couldn't bear out Hathaway for goals, playing about 3 minutes extra per night?

 

 

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Bt brought in a player with what he thought was a player that could score 6 goals in his first 3 games. He also brought in a coach that saw things differently. Neal deserved to get run out of town after last year and after a summer of hard work he deserves his success. It is on BT and BP for not recognizing a change in Neal this summer but I think the main reason Tkachuk had an incredible night against LA was because of Lucic. Lucic allowed Tkachuk to be himself and not be pushed off his game. 

So yes Neal got gifted 4 goals last night but I feel Lucic was instrumental without actually seeing it on the scoreboard in Tkachucks 2 goals and an assist.

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1 minute ago, redfire11 said:

So yes Neal got gifted 4 goals last night but I feel Lucic was instrumental without actually seeing it on the scoreboard in Tkachucks 2 goals and an assist.

 

Ya man.  Lucic lets Hamonic and Bennett play to their level instead of having to drop the gloves.  Tkachuk can also be dirtier knowing he has some back-up.  This is key moving forward.

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Tkachuk can also be dirtier knowing he has some back-up.  This is key moving forward.

 

I don't think that's possible.

 

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4 hours ago, redfire11 said:

Bt brought in a player with what he thought was a player that could score 6 goals in his first 3 games. He also brought in a coach that saw things differently. Neal deserved to get run out of town after last year and after a summer of hard work he deserves his success. It is on BT and BP for not recognizing a change in Neal this summer but I think the main reason Tkachuk had an incredible night against LA was because of Lucic. Lucic allowed Tkachuk to be himself and not be pushed off his game. 

So yes Neal got gifted 4 goals last night but I feel Lucic was instrumental without actually seeing it on the scoreboard in Tkachucks 2 goals and an assist.

I don't really agree with that.  Just because he worked out harder and skipped out on golf a couple times doesn't guarantee a different player.  I believe the player wanted out and wasn't a great fit in the room, thats why you get a trade like that.  Neal's conditioning was the least of my concerns with him last year, for a bit I thought it was a little bad luck, but by playoffs this was a guy with an IDGAF attitude, much like Brouwer I could live with overpaid guys not producing, but when they also add no leadership, are easy to play against and provide very little of the grit they have had throughout their careers then I'm fine moving on no matter what else happens.

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7 hours ago, redfire11 said:

Bt brought in a player with what he thought was a player that could score 6 goals in his first 3 games. He also brought in a coach that saw things differently. Neal deserved to get run out of town after last year and after a summer of hard work he deserves his success. It is on BT and BP for not recognizing a change in Neal this summer but I think the main reason Tkachuk had an incredible night against LA was because of Lucic. Lucic allowed Tkachuk to be himself and not be pushed off his game. 

So yes Neal got gifted 4 goals last night but I feel Lucic was instrumental without actually seeing it on the scoreboard in Tkachucks 2 goals and an assist.

 

I don;t blame BT for trading Neal.  He recognized that Neal would never be a fit here.

He can't cycle the puck and has a hard time scoring on the rush.

Mostly from his losuy shot.

Miss wide or hit center mass.

He genuinely sucked.

 

If I blame him for anything it was the one for one deal itself.

That the best you could do?

Not that I dislike Lucic.

Rather have him than play against him.

I just hated the terms of the deal.

Very minor cap relief.

 

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