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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

So Toronto seems to be the other team in a similar situation as we are, maybe there is a trade possibility between our teams. Toronto is lacking any kind of edge to their game and we are lacking offense.

 

To Toronto:

Sam Bennett

Travis Hamonic

Draft pick or Prospect

 

To Calgary:

Tyson Barrie

Kasperi Kapanen

 

I hasn't worked for Barrie in Toronto, but we have a spot for him here on the top pairing with Giordano and on the 1st PP unit. Mikheyev has shown well in his first season in the NHL and might make Kapanen easier to move. We could use his speed and his RHS 

 

I really don't like the idea of moving Bennett, but it might be time to move on. Toronto could use his grit, and his ability to play multiple positions. Maybe going home will do him wonders. Hamonic also gives them some leadership and toughness on the back end.

 

We would have to move a pretty good pick or Prospect as well.

 

Hard pass if so. 

 

I don't think Barrie would sign here and even if he did the Flames shouldn't want him. i don't mind Barrie as a dman but the Flames have his type. They don't need more guys with questionable in zone decision making. 

 

So your giving all that up for Kapanen and 3/4 of a season of Barrie. That's a lot IMO. 

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Here is the Flames schedule from now until Christmas break

 

Colorado
@ St. Louis
@ Philadelphia (11 AM)
@ Pittsburgh
@ Buffalo
Ottawa
Buffalo
LA
@ Colorado
@ Arizona
Toronto
Carolina
Pittsburgh
Montreal
@ Dallas
@ Minnesota (Back to back at 3 PM)

 

and it takes you to the half way point of the season. The game that appear to be softer are on the road where they've struggled so this is a pretty challenging schedule. This is where you are going to find out what the 19-20 Flames are made of. if this nosedive doesn't reverse and they struggle through this next quarter I don't think it will be a shakeup trade you'll be after, it will be taking a reboot. Sell off the pending UFAs, create cap space where you can, try to cash in if pepole are willing to buy high and reboot for the following season with a still pretty good core in place. 

 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Hard pass if so. 

 

I don't think Barrie would sign here and even if he did the Flames shouldn't want him. i don't mind Barrie as a dman but the Flames have his type. They don't need more guys with questionable in zone decision making. 

 

So your giving all that up for Kapanen and 3/4 of a season of Barrie. That's a lot IMO. 

 

I mean Hamonic is a UFA as well. 

 

I think Barrie is an upgrade on Hamonic. We may have similar types of defensemen as Barrie, but none that have his offensive ability. I am not sure how big a difference in value there is between Barrie and Hamonic so I could be a bit off there.

 

I also think that Kapanen currently carries higher value than Bennett. This is the part of the trade I have a tougher time with, as Bennett is one of my favorite players if not my favorite player. I just am not sure it's ever going to work for Bennett in Calgary and it might be time to move him for his sake as much as the team's. Getting a RHS speedster that can kill penalties and add offense in return would help us.

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1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

 

I mean Hamonic is a UFA as well. 

 

I think Barrie is an upgrade on Hamonic. We may have similar types of defensemen as Barrie, but none that have his offensive ability. I am not sure how big a difference in value there is between Barrie and Hamonic so I could be a bit off there.

 

I also think that Kapanen currently carries higher value than Bennett. This is the part of the trade I have a tougher time with, as Bennett is one of my favorite players if not my favorite player. I just am not sure it's ever going to work for Bennett in Calgary and it might be time to move him for his sake as much as the team's. Getting a RHS speedster that can kill penalties and add offense in return would help us.

 

Yes and Hamonic is probably going to be one of the top dman on the trade market come the deadline so you need to factor in the loss of those assets too. 

 

I don't disagree with any of your logic I just think your giving up too much for little long term benefit. That's a very short term trade that i'm not in favor of right now. 

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1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

Yes and Hamonic is probably going to be one of the top dman on the trade market come the deadline so you need to factor in the loss of those assets too. 

 

I don't disagree with any of your logic I just think your giving up too much for little long term benefit. That's a very short term trade that i'm not in favor of right now. 

 

I guess it depends if we are in a playoff spot at the deadline than Hamonic isn't going anywhere. 

 

If you trade for Barrie and aren't in a playoff spot by the deadline you can move him for a sizeable return. Especially since Barrie carries a $2.75m cap hit.

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I mean Hamonic is a UFA as well. 

 

I think Barrie is an upgrade on Hamonic. We may have similar types of defensemen as Barrie, but none that have his offensive ability. I am not sure how big a difference in value there is between Barrie and Hamonic so I could be a bit off there.

 

I also think that Kapanen currently carries higher value than Bennett. This is the part of the trade I have a tougher time with, as Bennett is one of my favorite players if not my favorite player. I just am not sure it's ever going to work for Bennett in Calgary and it might be time to move him for his sake as much as the team's. Getting a RHS speedster that can kill penalties and add offense in return would help us.

 

I think Bennett's time here is almost done.

They keep expecting an uptick in offense.

It's going the other way.

And there does not appear to be any trend in the other direction.

A good game for him these days is not taking a penalty and adding an assist.

Expectations for him have dropped, especially the coach.

He's not expecting a two goal effort, he's expecting a big hit and forechecking.

 

Hathaway was this player last year.

Which is awesome for a 4th line player.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think Bennett's time here is almost done.

They keep expecting an uptick in offense.

It's going the other way.

And there does not appear to be any trend in the other direction.

A good game for him these days is not taking a penalty and adding an assist.

Expectations for him have dropped, especially the coach.

He's not expecting a two goal effort, he's expecting a big hit and forechecking.

 

Hathaway was this player last year.

Which is awesome for a 4th line player.

 

 

Yes this is likely what will happen, if it does I will be happy for him.  They trade one of the few with heart and grit at a time when they have almost none.  The guy gets no minutes with different guys every game.  When he has a good game with Ryan and Mangi they bump Mangi up to play with Backs.  That line of Ryan, Mangi and Benny looked great.  Backs isn’t doing much more on the points front and he has 33% more minutes.  Mind you I acknowledge that he is playing against top lines and I think is only a -1.  The issue here is they feel Benny can’t play C (?) and we are deep LW.
 

If it’s me, I tell him he gets a solid opp for 5 games on the top two lines with minutes and if I see nothing great - he is up for grabs but I hate taking toughness off this team as we have next to none and I don’t believe you can be good if you’re not forcing the other team to keep their heads up.

 

Could it be that BP has them too in their heads?  Sometimes the boys need to just get out there and bang and have fun. It would be fun to see Lomberg get a few games.

 

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, 89Again said:

Yes this is likely what will happen, if it does I will be happy for him.  They trade one of the few with heart and grit at a time when they have almost none.  The guy gets no minutes with different guys every game.  When he has a good game with Ryan and Mangi they bump Mangi up to play with Backs.  That line of Ryan, Mangi and Benny looked great.  Backs isn’t doing much more on the points front and he has 33% more minutes.  Mind you I acknowledge that he is playing against top lines and I think is only a -1.  The issue here is they feel Benny can’t play C (?) and we are deep LW.
 

If it’s me, I tell him he gets a solid opp for 5 games on the top two lines with minutes and if I see nothing great - he is up for grabs but I hate taking toughness off this team as we have next to none and I don’t believe you can be good if you’re not forcing the other team to keep their heads up.

 

Could it be that BP has them too in their heads?  Sometimes the boys need to just get out there and bang and have fun. It would be fun to see Lomberg get a few games.

 

 

 

 

 

there's just too much babysitting and protecting of players in this regime.. We have a whole team of capable NHLers and yet.. 95 percent of the team is put in protective custody on the ice to limit errors.. which by the way,, are still happening time and again.. Just let them play hockey!! Get out of their heads!! They aren't playing with any kind of flow or confidence

 

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Just took a look at the +/- and found that Ryan, Bennett and Mangi are top on the team.  Why don’t they just give them more minutes together 

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25 minutes ago, 89Again said:

Just took a look at the +/- and found that Ryan, Bennett and Mangi are top on the team.  Why don’t they just give them more minutes together 

 

Stop making sense please.

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1 hour ago, Horsman1 said:

there's just too much babysitting and protecting of players in this regime.. We have a whole team of capable NHLers and yet.. 95 percent of the team is put in protective custody on the ice to limit errors.. which by the way,, are still happening time and again.. Just let them play hockey!! Get out of their heads!! They aren't playing with any kind of flow or confidence

 

 

Sometimes the trashing by a coach can have adverse effects.

It's not like the team is a bunch of partiers that come to practice drunk.

They want to win, some more badly than others.

Like everyone, they can have an off night.

They know they are that way.

They get frustrated, sometimes a bit too much.

You see it from the regulars.

Bennett taking a run at a guy after losing a puck battle and getting hit.

JH slamming his stick.

Rittich breaking his stick.

 

Saying this, we are seeing a lot of desperate play that comes when you grip the stick too tight.

Thinking a play two moves in advance.

Not letting a play develop and creativity enter the picture.

Missed passes are really bad for a team that isn;t a dump and chase team.

Hit the tape, don;t worry about what the player is going to do with it.

The hardest thing to defend is a player driving through without the puck.

He's going to get free for a split second; get him the puck on the tape.

 

We aren;t that different a team from last year.

We scored at will, because we attacked with speed.

We transitioned well.

No reason we can;t do that now.

 

I enjoy this thread because it gives a chance to postulate what the team could be like with player X or Y.

Trading Bennett or Brodie or Hamonic or Frolik is going to have good and bad.

We can;t trade the team, so finding the weak link is key to making the team better than last season.

The present results are not indicative of what the team is.

Nobody has figured us out, we have demons we need to exercize.

 

(end rant)

 

 

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Just a friendly reminder that the last time the Flames were in a tough spot and tried to trade their way out of it the result was the Dion Phaneuf trade. One of the top 3 worst trades this franchise has ever made.

 

Need to be careful what you wish for when you try to trade yourself out of a problem. 

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4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Just a friendly reminder that the last time the Flames were in a tough spot and tried to trade their way out of it the result was the Dion Phaneuf trade. One of the top 3 worst trades this franchise has ever made.

 

Need to be careful what you wish for when you try to trade yourself out of a problem. 

 

Yes, and the only way to avoid a potentially stupid Dion type trade is for the team to get back in the win column.

Last year we had a similar start, but went on a run afterwards.

We have been monumentally unlucky.

Missed empty nets.

High grade chances turning into a goal the other way.

Player falls and a 2 on 1 turns into a goal.

Being called for soft penalties just because there is a player in the vicinity.

 

All it takes is one game where confidence is the end result.

A game where we score at 5v5.

A game where the goalie doesn't need to make every possible save to win.

Baby steps.

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Personally, I think that there should be no challenge on goals. If a goal is scored and missed the league calls in and stops the play, they should just do the same on goals that should not count. 
 

and a coach shouldn’t lose his timeout on calls that the refs should get right.

 

coaches now have to decide whether a timeout earlier in the game will affect what they can do later. Sometimes you just gotta regroup! 
 

this team was in need of a regroup in the summer. 

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4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Yes, and the only way to avoid a potentially stupid Dion type trade is for the team to get back in the win column.

Last year we had a similar start, but went on a run afterwards.

We have been monumentally unlucky.

Missed empty nets.

High grade chances turning into a goal the other way.

Player falls and a 2 on 1 turns into a goal.

Being called for soft penalties just because there is a player in the vicinity.

 

All it takes is one game where confidence is the end result.

A game where we score at 5v5.

A game where the goalie doesn't need to make every possible save to win.

Baby steps.

True enough. It is also possible that getting spanked last game will provide them with greater motivation.

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7 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

True enough. It is also possible that getting spanked last game will provide them with greater motivation.

 

Getting spanked is one thing.

Being shut out for two in a row is another.

I don't really think motivation is the issue.

It may look that way, but I do think it's more a case of the wheels falling off.

 

You go into a game pumped.

You execute a play and something happens.

Then you make a small mistake that turns into a PK or a goal against.

If you don't score soon enough, you start getting desperate.

I watched two scenes unfolding in games this weekend.

We have a chance, it creates a rebound with an easy tap in.

Player double-clutches or rushes to get it on net.

It looks like Timbits hockey.

We manage to somehow lose possession or wait just long enough for the chance to disintegrate.

That's the kind of thing you do in a slump.

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Lots of Flames stuff in Friedman's 31 thoughts, albeit none of it ground breaking. 

 

him noting about them wanting to change up Monahan's game is probably the more noteworthy one there. Some of his numbers have looked dreadful but the eye test says he looks better. Could be a work in progress type situation. 

 

Quote

 

2. I’d be astonished if Calgary traded Johnny Gaudreau at this time. For one thing, the Flames are aware that this historically 12.5 per cent shooter is at 7.8 in 2019–20. There is concern about how he’s playing, as Gaudreau’s confidence and puck wizardry in the offensive zone are missing. A huge part of their offence was Gaudreau getting in close, where Sean Monahan could bury it. That’s missing. But there’s no desire to make a rash move.

 

3. I do think, however, that GM Brad Treliving will try to breathe new life into the group. I’m not sure how easy that’s going to be as the Flames are tight to the cap. And he’d be selling low on some useful players. Let’s take Mark Jankowski, for example. He’s really struggling, with zero points in 21 games. He scored 31 goals the last two seasons, seven of them shorthanded. I do think he’s available, but they see his value over the last three seasons while other GMs will say, “Well, we see this year.”

They’ve had Michael Frolik available for awhile, and it will be interesting to see how close to their core they are willing to get if their struggles continue. (My guess is not that close until the off-season, with the possible exception of Travis Hamonic, if he does not get extended.) Monahan may not be scoring, which hurts, but they asked for improvements in other areas of his game — such as faceoffs, where’s he’s got a career-high percentage. One interesting possibility: Oliver Kylington, who would like more opportunity. But, again, other teams have indicated the Flames are being careful not to undervalue their own players during tough times.

 

4. I don’t get the sense Bill Peters is in jeopardy. Calgary made a coaching change when this group petered out on Glen Gulutzan. The organization doesn’t want that to happen again.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-calgary-flames-johnny-gaudreau-not-selling-low/

 

 

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On 11/19/2019 at 10:04 AM, cross16 said:

Just a friendly reminder that the last time the Flames were in a tough spot and tried to trade their way out of it the result was the Dion Phaneuf trade. One of the top 3 worst trades this franchise has ever made.

 

Need to be careful what you wish for when you try to trade yourself out of a problem. 

 

Yeah in essence I will agree I am worried about this and it is Not at all how we want to "burn it down".   Trading for picks or prospects would be great but our last 2 rebuilds were triggered by absolutely aweful 5-player deals with Toronto which somewhat forced us into rebuilds.

 

That's  not how we want to get there imho.  Although..I disagree it makes the top 3 of worst trades.  Phaneuf was rubbish.

 

Third 5-player trade with Toronto on the way?   The only good I can see coming from this is a new GM.

 

https://www.tsn.ca/insider-trading-are-calgary-flames-and-toronto-maple-leafs-heading-for-a-shakeup-1.1400515?tsn-amp

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We are struggling and have been rumored to be looking for trades for a shake up so cue the Eklund rumors.

 

1. Pittsburgh wants T.J. Brodie, but we are asking for a lot in return including one of Harry or DeSmith.

 

Not sure why we would be looking at DeSmith or Jarry when we already have two NHL goalies. I could see Pittsburgh looking at Brodie, I am just not sure we make ideal trade partners.

 

2. We are aggressively going after Pageau.

 

Pagueau makes some sense in that he is off to a great start, is a RHS, can play C or RW. I know how some feel about the +/- stat, but Pageau is somehow leading the league with a +16, while playing for one of the worst teams in the league. He was also very good for Ottawa last time they were in the playoffs. Like any trade acquisition cost is the most important thing here. 

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17 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

We are struggling and have been rumored to be looking for trades for a shake up so cue the Eklund rumors.

 

1. Pittsburgh wants T.J. Brodie, but we are asking for a lot in return including one of Harry or DeSmith.

 

Not sure why we would be looking at DeSmith or Jarry when we already have two NHL goalies. I could see Pittsburgh looking at Brodie, I am just not sure we make ideal trade partners.

 

2. We are aggressively going after Pageau.

 

Pagueau makes some sense in that he is off to a great start, is a RHS, can play C or RW. I know how some feel about the +/- stat, but Pageau is somehow leading the league with a +16, while playing for one of the worst teams in the league. He was also very good for Ottawa last time they were in the playoffs. Like any trade acquisition cost is the most important thing here. 

 

The PITTS rumor makes no sense.

They want TJ, they can give us a forward.

We want to trade for Desmith, that should be a seperate deal doen with AHL players.

As it stands, we have no ability to play him unless we get rid of Zag or Gillies.

 

Pageau makes sense, but we would be buying high.

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21 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

We are struggling and have been rumored to be looking for trades for a shake up so cue the Eklund rumors.

 

1. Pittsburgh wants T.J. Brodie, but we are asking for a lot in return including one of Harry or DeSmith.

 

Not sure why we would be looking at DeSmith or Jarry when we already have two NHL goalies. I could see Pittsburgh looking at Brodie, I am just not sure we make ideal trade partners.

 

Cross previously suggested Galchenyuk from PITs.  He's not working out over there.  Brodie for Galchenyuk makes sense for both teams.

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37 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Cross previously suggested Galchenyuk from PITs.  He's not working out over there.  Brodie for Galchenyuk makes sense for both teams.

 

Yeah that makes some sense. We would have to show that Brodie is healthy and there are no ill effects of his fainting spell.

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44 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The PITTS rumor makes no sense.

They want TJ, they can give us a forward.

We want to trade for Desmith, that should be a seperate deal doen with AHL players.

As it stands, we have no ability to play him unless we get rid of Zag or Gillies.

 

Pageau makes sense, but we would be buying high.

 

The only reason getting DeSmith or Jarry makes sense is if we are flipping them on to Toronto.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Cross previously suggested Galchenyuk from PITs.  He's not working out over there.  Brodie for Galchenyuk makes sense for both teams.

Not 100% sure it makes sense on the Flames end. LHS (drafted as a C I believe), Feels like another reclaimation project. Where does that leave the defensive depth? 

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I was an advocate for Frolik for Galchenyuk but Brodie for him would give me pause. 

 

Combination of defensive depth issues combined with the fact that if this season can't turn around I like the idea of the Flames having a asset like Brodie for the deadline. Not a big fan of the idea of flipping Brodie for another pending UFA. 

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