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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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On 1/10/2020 at 6:27 PM, TheBurn said:

Personally i would rather be sellers at the deadline and get assets for our ufas and trade some bottom 6ers out.

 

A couple days ago yes.   Suddenly, after five straight wins, we are #1 in the division.  Sell?  Haha... can't right?  Can't justify selling when you are #1.

 

Don't get me wrong.  As tough as it is, I think we're just pretenders.  We can't go up against the Blues or Avs and expect to win.  And then there's whoever comes out of the East.  Deep down inside, we are missing 2 or 3 key pieces still.  We are lucky to be in a weak division where we've been mediocre and still be #1 in the Division.  I would sell.  Trade Brodie and Hamonic for picks/prospects and try again next year... but it's a tough sell to the fans.

 

I know some will say "wait and see where we are at come TDL" but come on.  We know already.  We will be 8/9/10 in the Conference but within 3 wins of #1 in the Division.  Between a puck and a hard place.

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8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not sure i agree here because it's not like Valimaki is 19-years-old who has never played a single game in the NHL or something.  He showed last season that he can play a 4/5/6 role no problems.  Depending on how he recovers from injury, i expect him to be a stud on the 3rd pair with potential to play 2nd pairing minutes/responsibilities right away.  There's no "waiting" unless you mean waiting for him to be a #1 Dman.  Otherwise, he's already arrived.

 

But that said, i'm open to any trade as long as we get good value.  If we can trade Valimaki for a legit top 6 C/RW, then we have to consider it.  

 

Who's out there?  Can/should we do Valimaki for Rakell?  Rakell won't be a rental and he's 26-years-old which is prime.  He's signed for 2 more years after this one at a bargain.  Capable for 30G and 70-points.  Fellow Swede could go well alternating C/RW with Lindholm.  Anaheim is rebuilding so they may be interested.

 

NJ, OTT, DET, and LA have no C/RW worth trading Valimaki for.  I think we can get Athanasiou and Toffoli for less than Valimaki if we want to go that route.

Yeah, a healthy Valamaki likely could slot in at 4/5/6 but then you usurp someone that is at least playing to their role (Kylington, Stone etc.) But as Valamaki is injured, he's basically a right off until next season and then again, someone has to go for him to play. I don't doubt his talent or ability to play within our 6D, but I don't think our team drastically improves with his arrival on the blue line vs. the guys we have back there now. I do think he is one of our better trade chips and for someone like a Rakell (dreaming) it would be worth his departure. 

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8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

A couple days ago yes.   Suddenly, after five straight wins, we are #1 in the division.  Sell?  Haha... can't right?  Can't justify selling when you are #1.

 

Don't get me wrong.  As tough as it is, I think we're just pretenders.  We can't go up against the Blues or Avs and expect to win.  And then there's whoever comes out of the East.  Deep down inside, we are missing 2 or 3 key pieces still.  We are lucky to be in a weak division where we've been mediocre and still be #1 in the Division.  I would sell.  Trade Brodie and Hamonic for picks/prospects and try again next year... but it's a tough sell to the fans.

 

I know some will say "wait and see where we are at come TDL" but come on.  We know already.  We will be 8/9/10 in the Conference but within 3 wins of #1 in the Division.  Between a puck and a hard place.

As I mentioned earlier, as long as Calgary gets 1,2 or 3rd seed in the Pacific Division - you don't need to worry about the Avs, Blues or likely Stars until the 3rd round. Those central division teams, which are certainly better, are going to beat each other up and anything can happen if and when we get to the 3rd round. Brodie has shown he can defend on guys like McDavid and you can't move those types. I just don't think Hamonic gets us anything and he and Hanafin are my least favorite Dmen right now, but we can't sell in a year where the Pacific is as soft as RNH. 

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7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

A couple days ago yes.   Suddenly, after five straight wins, we are #1 in the division.  Sell?  Haha... can't right?  Can't justify selling when you are #1.

 

Don't get me wrong.  As tough as it is, I think we're just pretenders.  We can't go up against the Blues or Avs and expect to win.  And then there's whoever comes out of the East.  Deep down inside, we are missing 2 or 3 key pieces still.  We are lucky to be in a weak division where we've been mediocre and still be #1 in the Division.  I would sell.  Trade Brodie and Hamonic for picks/prospects and try again next year... but it's a tough sell to the fans.

 

I know some will say "wait and see where we are at come TDL" but come on.  We know already.  We will be 8/9/10 in the Conference but within 3 wins of #1 in the Division.  Between a puck and a hard place.

 

Unlike STL and the AVS, but like 28 other teams, we have a hole or holes in the depth.

We struggled against those teams, three of the losses occuring during the 6 game losing streak in November.

The streak started with the OT loss to STL, which TJ was penalized in OT for.

We were shut out 3 times against various teams during that time.

The last month of BP.

 

Let's be honest here.

RInaldo and Stone are not really depth players that should be in and out of the lineup.

They are emergency only, when you haven;t called up anyone yet.

Rinaldo is growing on me, but I think should only be an option.

Hamonic should be moved to improve the team.

Janko is done, so move him for whatever you can get.

He's a much better faceoff guy than Rieder, but 5v5 he has lost his way.

Bennett is fine, but what a waste of a top 6 player.

Has become a role player, but is in the wrong place every time there is a chance.

 

Place in the standings should have no bearing on whether you try to improve the team or not.

Use Hamonic to get a top 6 player.

Use Bennett and Janko to get you a decent RD.

Learn from CBJ that you only keep UFA's if you are sure they can be re-signed.

Only trade for guys with term or ones you know you can sign.

We will have the chance to sign Hall in the summer.

 

Okay, so we can trade Bennett, Janko, and Hamonic right of the bat.

We move Backlund to #3C and Ryan to #4C.

Move Ras to 2nd pair.

Trade for a top 6 RW and 4/5 RD.

The holes get patched a bit better and we don;t have as big a liability on the 2nd pair.

We can use the new RD abywhere he fits.


Ideally, we upgrade Mangiapane and drop Mangiapane to Backlund's line.

Would it be unreasonable to make a trade for another RW with what we have available?

2nd + lesser prospect should get you a Toffoli if he's willing to re-sign.

Bennett for a RD.

Janko + Czarnik might get you Galchenyuk.

And Hamonic for a top 6 RW.

 

JH-Monahan-RW

Tkachuk-Lindholm-RW

Galchenyuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Gawdin/Rinaldo

 

 

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So here is just a thought. Player had some issues with his club. We need a RW/ RH shot. What about Dustin Byfuglien out of Winnipeg. Good skater, good on the wall has played RW before good hands, great shot, extremely big and can play physical. Would he not look great on a line with JG Mony and Big Buck. Not sure what you send back but multiple diverse player can play both back and forward.  Has term WPG has been good without him and there is some history there, 

 

 

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12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

A couple days ago yes.   Suddenly, after five straight wins, we are #1 in the division.  Sell?  Haha... can't right?  Can't justify selling when you are #1.

 

Don't get me wrong.  As tough as it is, I think we're just pretenders.  We can't go up against the Blues or Avs and expect to win.  And then there's whoever comes out of the East.  Deep down inside, we are missing 2 or 3 key pieces still.  We are lucky to be in a weak division where we've been mediocre and still be #1 in the Division.  I would sell.  Trade Brodie and Hamonic for picks/prospects and try again next year... but it's a tough sell to the fans.

 

I know some will say "wait and see where we are at come TDL" but come on.  We know already.  We will be 8/9/10 in the Conference but within 3 wins of #1 in the Division.  Between a puck and a hard place.

 

And with the Pacific division so tight you can also see a pretty easy path to at least round 2. Any pacific division matchup in the first round, looking likely, is going to be pretty tough to say the flames can't win.  Yes I'm well aware that this mentality burned them last year but if your management and ownership that's what they would likely look at. 

 

Doesn't make it the right decision , I don't think there is anyway the Flames sell off at the TDL unless they start to fall apart. I'd sell too, at least Hamonic, but I think it's a close to zero percent chance it happens

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4 hours ago, WRuCOS said:

Yeah, a healthy Valamaki likely could slot in at 4/5/6 but then you usurp someone that is at least playing to their role (Kylington, Stone etc.) But as Valamaki is injured, he's basically a right off until next season and then again, someone has to go for him to play. I don't doubt his talent or ability to play within our 6D, but I don't think our team drastically improves with his arrival on the blue line vs. the guys we have back there now. I do think he is one of our better trade chips and for someone like a Rakell (dreaming) it would be worth his departure. 


 

I think in this case, Valamaki makes Hanifin expendable. And Stone is his own thing because he plays right side. I think Valamaki affects Kylington most and Hanifin. I’d almost keep Kylington over Hanifin. I don’t know why that is though.

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52 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

And with the Pacific division so tight you can also see a pretty easy path to at least round 2. Any pacific division matchup in the first round, looking likely, is going to be pretty tough to say the flames can't win.  Yes I'm well aware that this mentality burned them last year but if your management and ownership that's what they would likely look at. 

 

Doesn't make it the right decision , I don't think there is anyway the Flames sell off at the TDL unless they start to fall apart. I'd sell too, at least Hamonic, but I think it's a close to zero percent chance it happens


 

if the Flames play a pacific division in the first round, couldn’t it mean we wouldn’t play a conference team until the conference final?

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4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Unlike STL and the AVS, but like 28 other teams, we have a hole or holes in the depth.

We struggled against those teams, three of the losses occuring during the 6 game losing streak in November.

The streak started with the OT loss to STL, which TJ was penalized in OT for.

We were shut out 3 times against various teams during that time.

The last month of BP.

 

Let's be honest here.

RInaldo and Stone are not really depth players that should be in and out of the lineup.

They are emergency only, when you haven;t called up anyone yet.

Rinaldo is growing on me, but I think should only be an option.

Hamonic should be moved to improve the team.

Janko is done, so move him for whatever you can get.

He's a much better faceoff guy than Rieder, but 5v5 he has lost his way.

Bennett is fine, but what a waste of a top 6 player.

Has become a role player, but is in the wrong place every time there is a chance.

 

Place in the standings should have no bearing on whether you try to improve the team or not.

Use Hamonic to get a top 6 player.

Use Bennett and Janko to get you a decent RD.

Learn from CBJ that you only keep UFA's if you are sure they can be re-signed.

Only trade for guys with term or ones you know you can sign.

We will have the chance to sign Hall in the summer.

 

Okay, so we can trade Bennett, Janko, and Hamonic right of the bat.

We move Backlund to #3C and Ryan to #4C.

Move Ras to 2nd pair.

Trade for a top 6 RW and 4/5 RD.

The holes get patched a bit better and we don;t have as big a liability on the 2nd pair.

We can use the new RD abywhere he fits.


Ideally, we upgrade Mangiapane and drop Mangiapane to Backlund's line.

Would it be unreasonable to make a trade for another RW with what we have available?

2nd + lesser prospect should get you a Toffoli if he's willing to re-sign.

Bennett for a RD.

Janko + Czarnik might get you Galchenyuk.

And Hamonic for a top 6 RW.

 

JH-Monahan-RW

Tkachuk-Lindholm-RW

Galchenyuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Gawdin/Rinaldo

 

 

i'd prefer....

JH/Monahan/RW

Tkacuk/Limdholm/RW

bennett/dube/Mangiapane

Lucic/Ryan/RW

 

 

 this leaves Backlund/Jankowski/Reider/Czarnik/Rinaldo as tradeable assets

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44 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

if the Flames play a pacific division in the first round, couldn’t it mean we wouldn’t play a conference team until the conference final?

 

 Very possible. 

 

I think parity and the new playoff format have changed the NHL and change the mentality for GMs. Because the NHL playoff is such a grind it use to be unless you had a true "contender" it wasn't really worth going for it. Just "get in and see what happens" was not an acceptable strategy but I do think it is now. Just too much parity. 

 

Not to mention the flames owners have usually been a playoffs or bust type of group. 

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18 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

i'd prefer....

JH/Monahan/RW

Tkacuk/Limdholm/RW

bennett/dube/Mangiapane

Lucic/Ryan/RW

 

 

 this leaves Backlund/Jankowski/Reider/Czarnik/Rinaldo as tradeable assets

So with the need of 3 RW players, what could be available to us? In my mind players that we need to target are Anthony Mantha, Travis Konecny, or Brendan Gallagher, or maybe Josh Anderson. As all of them possess the kind of RW we need, will it cost us, of course it will. 

Anthony Mantha may cost us Hamonic and a 1st

Travis Konecny would need to be a bigger deal and I dont know how it would shake down, maybe us trading Ghost with Hamonic, and another young peice, maybe Valimaki?

Brendan Gallagher would take something along the lines of Bennett and Valimaki, plus.

 

All three I would like us take a shot at atleast one, as it makes us harder to play against, and more lethal.

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How about circling back to Nikita Gusev? 8G, 26P in 41 games this year.  Natural RW, signed for one more year.  The devils spent a 2nd and a 3rd for him, so maybe something like a 2nd + Janko could sway them.

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3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Does anyone know enough about Drake Batherson?  Is Dube for Batherson a good idea?

 

 

 

I am big a fan of Dube, and I would make that trade, but I don't think Ottawa would. Batherson is 21, a RHS and is 2nd in AHL scoring. He just got called up and is playing in their top 6.

 

I think they are pretty close talent wise. Dube is faster, but Batherson is bigger. 

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11 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Unlike STL and the AVS, but like 28 other teams, we have a hole or holes in the depth.

We struggled against those teams, three of the losses occuring during the 6 game losing streak in November.

The streak started with the OT loss to STL, which TJ was penalized in OT for.

We were shut out 3 times against various teams during that time.

The last month of BP.

 

Let's be honest here.

RInaldo and Stone are not really depth players that should be in and out of the lineup.

They are emergency only, when you haven;t called up anyone yet.

Rinaldo is growing on me, but I think should only be an option.

Hamonic should be moved to improve the team.

Janko is done, so move him for whatever you can get.

He's a much better faceoff guy than Rieder, but 5v5 he has lost his way.

Bennett is fine, but what a waste of a top 6 player.

Has become a role player, but is in the wrong place every time there is a chance.

 

Place in the standings should have no bearing on whether you try to improve the team or not.

Use Hamonic to get a top 6 player.

Use Bennett and Janko to get you a decent RD.

Learn from CBJ that you only keep UFA's if you are sure they can be re-signed.

Only trade for guys with term or ones you know you can sign.

We will have the chance to sign Hall in the summer.

 

Okay, so we can trade Bennett, Janko, and Hamonic right of the bat.

We move Backlund to #3C and Ryan to #4C.

Move Ras to 2nd pair.

Trade for a top 6 RW and 4/5 RD.

The holes get patched a bit better and we don;t have as big a liability on the 2nd pair.

We can use the new RD abywhere he fits.


Ideally, we upgrade Mangiapane and drop Mangiapane to Backlund's line.

Would it be unreasonable to make a trade for another RW with what we have available?

2nd + lesser prospect should get you a Toffoli if he's willing to re-sign.

Bennett for a RD.

Janko + Czarnik might get you Galchenyuk.

And Hamonic for a top 6 RW.

 

JH-Monahan-RW

Tkachuk-Lindholm-RW

Galchenyuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Gawdin/Rinaldo

 

 


I find myself following this kind of thinking as well.

 

I’ve long been a supporter of Bennett, but I feel at this point he and the team would be better off parting ways. Like you said TD - Bennett often (always?) comes out on the wrong side of any opportunity. I always look forward to “playoff Bennett”, but maybe there’s a better fit out there. 
 

I’m also starting to sour on Backlund after supporting him for so long as well. Heck, I just posted the other day to end the Backlund at wing experiment and make him 3C with Ryan 4C. I know he has a NTC, but I’d be at least exploring the market for him and what potential C replacements could be available. I wouldn’t expect a TDL deal for Backlund but maybe something in the off-season. 

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Wow!   everyone wants a RHS RW.

I have been saying for years we need to pick some at the draft.  Haven't had a good one since Iginla.

Maybe don't pick BPA  but  B(RHS)A.

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7 minutes ago, Meatpuppet42 said:

Wow!   everyone wants a RHS RW.

I have been saying for years we need to pick some at the draft.  Haven't had a good one since Iginla.

Maybe don't pick BPA  but  B(RHS)A.


 

Yup! 
 

there lies the problem! We say pick BPA! BPA! BPA! 
 

but now we’ve picked one RHS RD and hardly any to no RHS F’s. BPA is supposed to bring the best result and possible tradable asset. Nobody is trading their RW’s, at least NOT to us. 
 

I am with you. It is Time to draft some. Although, maybe the ones we have eyes on are taken in the draft before they get to our pick? Does that mean don’t go for the next RHS? I guess you gotta go for the next best player. 
 

tough call!

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4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

Yup! 
 

there lies the problem! We say pick BPA! BPA! BPA! 
 

but now we’ve picked one RHS RD and hardly any to no RHS F’s. BPA is supposed to bring the best result and possible tradable asset. Nobody is trading their RW’s, at least NOT to us. 
 

I am with you. It is Time to draft some. Although, maybe the ones we have eyes on are taken in the draft before they get to our pick? Does that mean don’t go for the next RHS? I guess you gotta go for the next best player. 
 

tough call!

it's easier to trade for a draft pick to get a rhs forward than a roster player.. use our assets to move up to get one

 

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40 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

Yup! 
 

there lies the problem! We say pick BPA! BPA! BPA! 
 

but now we’ve picked one RHS RD and hardly any to no RHS F’s. BPA is supposed to bring the best result and possible tradable asset. Nobody is trading their RW’s, at least NOT to us. 
 

I am with you. It is Time to draft some. Although, maybe the ones we have eyes on are taken in the draft before they get to our pick? Does that mean don’t go for the next RHS? I guess you gotta go for the next best player. 
 

tough call!

 

Well, we traded one of them.

Others are not as easy to find.

We could have drafted Dobson, but we traded that pick.

Or Liljigren instead of Valimaki, but he isn;t even that productive at the AHL level.

Late round D that are any good are pretty rare.

Late round RHS D are even less common.

 

 

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7 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I am big a fan of Dube, and I would make that trade, but I don't think Ottawa would. Batherson is 21, a RHS and is 2nd in AHL scoring. He just got called up and is playing in their top 6.

 

I think they are pretty close talent wise. Dube is faster, but Batherson is bigger. 

 

Batherson looks like exactly what we need.  6'-4" RHS RW with a great snipe.  He doesn't play that physical from what I've seen in limited viewings but he can find the back of the net.  What do you think is his ceiling?  What are some NHL comparables to his style and game?

 

Maybe the Senators feel Dube is more ready.  Dube has speed, drives play, carries the puck, etc.  He plays Center and that's harder to find than wingers... maybe they would do it?

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2 hours ago, Meatpuppet42 said:

Wow!   everyone wants a RHS RW.

I have been saying for years we need to pick some at the draft.  Haven't had a good one since Iginla.

Maybe don't pick BPA  but  B(RHS)A.

 

IF one prospect is clearly better then take him regardless of shot hand.  This is usually clear in the first round of drafts.  However, once you get into the late second round and beyond, the flaws in each player become greater and the difference in ceiling between one prospect and the next is almost negligible.  Whoever you draft in the 3rd, 4th, etc is a gamble any way you look at it.  That's when you should take shot hand into consideration.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, we traded one of them.

Others are not as easy to find.

We could have drafted Dobson, but we traded that pick.

Or Liljigren instead of Valimaki, but he isn;t even that productive at the AHL level.

Late round D that are any good are pretty rare.

Late round RHS D are even less common.

 

 


 

I wonder if that’s the player we would have taken? 
was Hamonic worth the trade of that pick? Would that player help while our core is signed to the deals they are at now? Or will that even matter? Hamonic might not even sign and BT might feel that he’s more valuable to a playoff run than to trade at the deadline. 
 

Dobson looks like a guy we’d like for the future. Too bad. But hindsight is never a good thing when it comes to trades and drafts. 

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19 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Place in the standings should have no bearing on whether you try to improve the team or not.

Use Hamonic to get a top 6 player.

Use Bennett and Janko to get you a decent RD.

 

Fair point.  Moving Hamonic and Jankowski at TDL doesn't mean we selling necessarily.  Depends on how you look at it.  Maybe it's addition by subtraction.

 

Bennett would be good for the playoffs so I think we keep him.

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16 hours ago, tmac70 said:

So here is just a thought. Player had some issues with his club. We need a RW/ RH shot. What about Dustin Byfuglien out of Winnipeg. Good skater, good on the wall has played RW before good hands, great shot, extremely big and can play physical. Would he not look great on a line with JG Mony and Big Buck. Not sure what you send back but multiple diverse player can play both back and forward.  Has term WPG has been good without him and there is some history there, 

 

I vote 'no' to getting Byfuglien.  He's not known for keeping himself in shape as is.  Now he's had like 9 months no hockey coming off surgery. He's going to need a couple months to get back into NHL shape.  And that's if his ankle will hold up.  Maybe he will never be the same again.

 

He's someone we could target in the summer after we have a good look at how he's recovered from surgery and he's played some hockey again.

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Taking best RS player over BPA available would have netted the Flames Taylor Raydish over Dillon Dube or Lillejgren over Valamki. How does that look right now? 
 

What hand a player shoots should be pretty far down the list of traits your are looking for in a player. By all means break a tie with it but the concept of drafting a player over another just because of the hand they shoot? Silly. 

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