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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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40 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don’t get the angst about Hamonic and Brodie not being traded. Good players, but the return wouldn’t have been massive. A couple 2nd round picks and a prospect or two aren’t gonna completely alter the course of Flames history.

 

Players leaving via free agency is their right and part of the game. Should BT have traded Hathaway last deadline? That 5th rounder we got in return could have been really valuable. 

 

Not like Gaudreau an Lindholm, actually top end players on this team are pending UFA he got nothing for. Brodie and Hamonic can and will be replaced if they choose to leave, nothing to lose sleep over.

 

Besides, if the Flames are able to win a playoff round, most of us will be happy they stayed

Agreed..last one I can remember that caused any kind of fan stress like this was Joel Otto 

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18 hours ago, conundrumed said:

That's what I'm thinking.

If we don't sign him, I hope the Wings do. I've never had a problem with him.

I'm interested to see what deals each of him and Hamonic sign.

We didn’t look good when Brodie was out - I like having him on the team, feel he has really improved his D work this year but I want to see what Gus can do and I have really like Valimaki when he was healthy

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As a side note ..the perils of "buying"

Edmonton gave up 2 second round picks and Dave Gagner (who's an overpaid UFA but was a contributor I feel) for AA...

One game and he's already injured and out ..

 

Aside from being a defensive tire fire ..this is actually the biggest reason I'm happy we didn't pick him up.. he's always injured

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don’t get the angst about Hamonic and Brodie not being traded. Good players, but the return wouldn’t have been massive. A couple 2nd round picks and a prospect or two aren’t gonna completely alter the course of Flames history.

 

Players leaving via free agency is their right and part of the game. Should BT have traded Hathaway last deadline? That 5th rounder we got in return could have been really valuable. 

 

Not like Gaudreau an Lindholm, actually top end players on this team are pending UFA he got nothing for. Brodie and Hamonic can and will be replaced if they choose to leave, nothing to lose sleep over.

 

Besides, if the Flames are able to win a playoff round, most of us will be happy they stayed


 

but a 2nd rounder and a 4th rounder and a 6th has. Andersson and Gaudreau and Mangiapane.

Ferland was also a depth pick.
 

the Flames almost have better scouting in the depths than in the 1st round. 
 

for me more picks is better.

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don’t get the angst about Hamonic and Brodie not being traded. Good players, but the return wouldn’t have been massive. A couple 2nd round picks and a prospect or two aren’t gonna completely alter the course of Flames history.

 

Players leaving via free agency is their right and part of the game. Should BT have traded Hathaway last deadline? That 5th rounder we got in return could have been really valuable. 

 

Not like Gaudreau an Lindholm, actually top end players on this team are pending UFA he got nothing for. Brodie and Hamonic can and will be replaced if they choose to leave, nothing to lose sleep over.

 

Besides, if the Flames are able to win a playoff round, most of us will be happy they stayed

 

 

Making one mortgage payment won't pay off your house.

 

See what happens when you miss 6 in a row though.  That's what happens here.

 

We make repetitive, consistent "oh it's just this time" moves.

 

People have been screaming in here to sell some of our aging D for....5 years now.  For a heck of a lot more than 2nd rounders.   But we'll just grind it into the dust and have nothing to show for it.  At any particular moment in time you can put blinders on and justify that missed mortgage payment.   In the broader picture to get absolutely nothing for Brodie or Giordano is death.

 

I'd already given up on that cause 2 years ago.   I've personally been lobbying to trade Gaudreau.  Haven't seen a good reason not to yet other than ticket sales.   Definitely  won't change your playoff outcome.    

 

We'll probably lose him for nothing too at some point and people will say "really there's nothing else we can do and we only woulda got a 4th for him".   Our future.

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2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don’t get the angst about Hamonic and Brodie not being traded. Good players, but the return wouldn’t have been massive. A couple 2nd round picks and a prospect or two aren’t gonna completely alter the course of Flames history.

 

Players leaving via free agency is their right and part of the game. Should BT have traded Hathaway last deadline? That 5th rounder we got in return could have been really valuable. 

 

Not like Gaudreau an Lindholm, actually top end players on this team are pending UFA he got nothing for. Brodie and Hamonic can and will be replaced if they choose to leave, nothing to lose sleep over.

 

Besides, if the Flames are able to win a playoff round, most of us will be happy they stayed

 

I agree on Hamonic. with the question mark he is medically you weren't going to get anything for him anyway. The injury was just bad luck timing wise for the Flames unfortunately. 

 

I agree it's a little over the top for sure on here and and too dramatic. It's far from the end of the world, but at the same time it's also not a good look on the team in the big picture of asset management. For me it's not just that they didn't move them at the TDL it's that they have known for a while they had 2 pending UFA dmen in the same off-season, didn't move either one and now are, likely, going to lose both for nothing. They could, and IMO should have, addressed this last off-season and not let it get to this point. Now in fairness to Treliving he had a deal to do so, and It's also fair to say that the injury to Valimaki likely threw a wrench in here. So there as been some bad luck involved here but in terms of asset management this is not a good look for the Flames. If you have a really good team that you think has the capability of winning a cup this is not a big issue, you prepare for UFAs to walk but I don't think that should be the train of thought here. 

 

On top of that when you watch how the team has played this year it heightens the frustration I think. Sure maybe it was only 2 2nds they get and that price doesn't wow you, but for a team facing a bit of a uncertain future I would gladly take 2 pretty good assets like that that can help me improve the organization. Not the end of the world, not worth getting so worked up about and fair from a completely failure but it's also well short of ideal too. 

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12 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I agree it's a little over the top for sure on here and and too dramatic. It's far from the end of the world, but at the same time it's also not a good look on the team in the big picture of asset management. For me it's not just that they didn't move them at the TDL it's that they have known for a while they had 2 pending UFA dmen in the same off-season, didn't move either one and now are, likely, going to lose both for nothing. They could, and IMO should have, addressed this last off-season and not let it get to this point. Now in fairness to Treliving he had a deal to do so, and It's also fair to say that the injury to Valimaki likely threw a wrench in here. So there as been some bad luck involved here but in terms of asset management this is not a good look for the Flames. If you have a really good team that you think has the capability of winning a cup this is not a big issue, you prepare for UFAs to walk but I don't think that should be the train of thought here.

 

This is the part that frustrates me.

You go into the season with two pending UFA's and a bunch of RFA's coming up.

The RFA's tend to take care of themselves, but the UFA's needed to be dealt with.

At the very least, a one-year deal should have been worked out.

Whomever you decided was needed.

 

Poor decision making in that there was no formal talks with Brodie prior to swinging for Kadri.

There was no plan B.

Instead, Brodie hears like everyone else that he was part of a failed deal.

If he was thinking about coming back, then the summer was not the right time.

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

This is the part that frustrates me.

You go into the season with two pending UFA's and a bunch of RFA's coming up.

The RFA's tend to take care of themselves, but the UFA's needed to be dealt with.

At the very least, a one-year deal should have been worked out.

Whomever you decided was needed.

 

Poor decision making in that there was no formal talks with Brodie prior to swinging for Kadri.

There was no plan B.

Instead, Brodie hears like everyone else that he was part of a failed deal.

If he was thinking about coming back, then the summer was not the right time.

 

I have heard that even if Kadri waived his no trade clause that Brodie wasn't waiving his to go to Toronto. I don't think it is fair to say that he heard about the deal through the media, I am guessing that both GM's went to the their players at the same time to get them to sign off on the trade, we only heard the Kadri side.

 

I see a lot of blame being put at the feet of Treliving for not dealing with the UFA's which is not even remotely fair and is using a lot revisionist history. This team was the top team in the West last season and while the season ended abruptly the expectations for this team were that they were going to be very good again. You don't move two top 4 defenseman just because you couldn't get a deal done in the offseason when you are going into the season as a contender. Now things haven't worked out as planned, and there are various reasons why. 

 

The same reason we want to move pending UFA's is the same reason other teams don't want pending UFA's or at least don't want to give value for pending UFA's.

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1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

 

I have heard that even if Kadri waived his no trade clause that Brodie wasn't waiving his to go to Toronto. I don't think it is fair to say that he heard about the deal through the media, I am guessing that both GM's went to the their players at the same time to get them to sign off on the trade, we only heard the Kadri side.

 

I see a lot of blame being put at the feet of Treliving for not dealing with the UFA's which is not even remotely fair and is using a lot revisionist history. This team was the top team in the West last season and while the season ended abruptly the expectations for this team were that they were going to be very good again. You don't move two top 4 defenseman just because you couldn't get a deal done in the offseason when you are going into the season as a contender. Now things haven't worked out as planned, and there are various reasons why. 

 

The same reason we want to move pending UFA's is the same reason other teams don't want pending UFA's or at least don't want to give value for pending UFA's.

 

Considering Brodie has a 8 team NTC, I find it hard to believe BT would setup the trade knowing Toronto was on Brodie's NTC.  BT would be wasting his own time.

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3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Considering Brodie has a 8 team NTC, I find it hard to believe BT would setup the trade knowing Toronto was on Brodie's NTC.  BT would be wasting his own time.

 It depends, not all NTC are set up the same. Some the player has to submit a list by a certain date and some don't have to supply a list till the team asks. 

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9 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I have heard that even if Kadri waived his no trade clause that Brodie wasn't waiving his to go to Toronto. I don't think it is fair to say that he heard about the deal through the media, I am guessing that both GM's went to the their players at the same time to get them to sign off on the trade, we only heard the Kadri side.

 

I see a lot of blame being put at the feet of Treliving for not dealing with the UFA's which is not even remotely fair and is using a lot revisionist history. This team was the top team in the West last season and while the season ended abruptly the expectations for this team were that they were going to be very good again. You don't move two top 4 defenseman just because you couldn't get a deal done in the offseason when you are going into the season as a contender. Now things haven't worked out as planned, and there are various reasons why. 

 

The same reason we want to move pending UFA's is the same reason other teams don't want pending UFA's or at least don't want to give value for pending UFA's.

 

I disagree. You have a team that had a great regular season slowed down at the end and then had a sub par playoffs. Is that really a "contender" i'm not so sure I would go there. I think this was a team that exited last season with a ton of questions both in the short and long term so I don't agree that keeping things the same was the only way to go. 

 

Now there are lots of things that happened that are out of his control, injuries and Kadri turning down the trade for example, so I'm not suggesting it's his "fault" but at the same time I think it's more than fair to question the approach. 

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1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Considering Brodie has a 8 team NTC, I find it hard to believe BT would setup the trade knowing Toronto was on Brodie's NTC.  BT would be wasting his own time.

And this is sometimes the frustrating thing on here and many boards..people just assumed we are or aren't doing something

We don't know what or was not on the table .

I tend to believe the masses , but Pierre Lebrun who is normally fairly reliable , says it was Hamonic who was in the Toronto deal..

Bottom line ..that's multiple decent sources with different stories .. we don't know 

 

To say " we should have traded him' is easy for us ..but every team knew we had cap trouble until we moved Frolik..I'd suspect a lot of 5th and 6th round offers were coming in for our guys.. ..anvils right?

 

And yes we had injury curve balls..started with Valimaki..we not only missed resigning Fantenberg we had to resign our own bought out player because of that 

We just assume nothing is happening cuz nothing completed ..but I'd be quite confident in saying talks have been had 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I disagree. You have a team that had a great regular season slowed down at the end and then had a sub par playoffs. Is that really a "contender" i'm not so sure I would go there. I think this was a team that exited last season with a ton of questions both in the short and long term so I don't agree that keeping things the same was the only way to go. 

 

Now there are lots of things that happened that are out of his control, injuries and Kadri turning down the trade for example, so I'm not suggesting it's his "fault" but at the same time I think it's more than fair to question the approach. 

 

I get what you are saying, but Treliving was still in a position where he had to go forward with this core and give them another shot.

 

I also think that because of thier pending UFA status I don't think Treliving was getting a ton of great deals for Hamonic and Brodie. I think he had to get a hockey deal done for those players and teams were probably offering picks and prospects in return for the most part.

 

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21 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I get what you are saying, but Treliving was still in a position where he had to go forward with this core and give them another shot.

 

 

That's the point I disagree with. It's what he is doing and to a certain extent circumstances forced him into that but I don't think he HAD to do that. I think making changes last summer was not only justified, but would have been encouraged. I think the message after last season was that there were holes and they needed to address them both short and long term and you don't do that without assets. This is not an asset rich organization so for me, while I do like where they are going, they were not at a point where they had to say asset gathering was done. 

 

21 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I also think that because of thier pending UFA status I don't think Treliving was getting a ton of great deals for Hamonic and Brodie. I think he had to get a hockey deal done for those players and teams were probably offering picks and prospects in return for the most part.

 

 

And I don't disagree. that's exactly why I think he didn't deal either one because he was looking for a hockey deal and never got one. However, I think it's also fair to question that approach especially with the way this team has played this year. I would have had no problem with taking picks/prospects. 

 

It can go either way and as i said I don't think that Treliving is necessarily "wrong" I just think it's fair to be frustrated with his approach and it's not fair to suggest he had no choice to do what he did. 

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3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

That's the point I disagree with. It's what he is doing and to a certain extent circumstances forced him into that but I don't think he HAD to do that. I think making changes last summer was not only justified, but would have been encouraged. I think the message after last season was that there were holes and they needed to address them both short and long term and you don't do that without assets. This is not an asset rich organization so for me, while I do like where they are going, they were not at a point where they had to say asset gathering was done. 

 

 

And I don't disagree. that's exactly why I think he didn't deal either one because he was looking for a hockey deal and never got one. However, I think it's also fair to question that approach especially with the way this team has played this year. I would have had no problem with taking picks/prospects. 

 

It can go either way and as i said I don't think that Treliving is necessarily "wrong" I just think it's fair to be frustrated with his approach and it's not fair to suggest he had no choice to do what he did. 

My biggest question in all of it , is still, how are we assuming he did "nothing"

Are we suggesting if the best offer was a 4th or 5th he should have moved Brodie just for the sake of moving him?(and depleted the team in the process ).. we were buying dmen..why would we give one away?

Chicago is on record as being extremely disappointed in the return for Gustafson. That says teams weren't buying high on these players ..our 3rd rounder was the best offer from all the teams 

 

There's too many assumptions he didn't put him on the market when we truly do not know that..we don't know what was offered if at all..

 

We were supposedly in on a good number of players ..I think it's ok to assume at least some of those would have included these players..

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14 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

My biggest question in all of it , is still, how are we assuming he did "nothing"

Are we suggesting if the best offer was a 4th or 5th he should have moved Brodie just for the sake of moving him?(and depleted the team in the process ).. we were buying dmen..why would we give one away?

Chicago is on record as being extremely disappointed in the return for Gustafson. That says teams weren't buying high on these players ..our 3rd rounder was the best offer from all the teams 

 

There's too many assumptions he didn't put him on the market when we truly do not know that..we don't know what was offered if at all..

 

We were supposedly in on a good number of players ..I think it's ok to assume at least some of those would have included these players..

 

Who says he did nothing? In fact i'm saying the exactly opposite. I'm saying that Treliving has been shopping Brodie, by multiple reports. for almost a full year now and now is likely going to have him walk for free. That's not good asset management and not a good look for the GM.

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7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Who says he did nothing? In fact i'm saying the exactly opposite. I'm saying that Treliving has been shopping Brodie, by multiple reports. for almost a full year now and now is likely going to have him walk for free. That's not good asset management and not a good look for the GM.

I think you and Phoenix are arguing the same point.  But there are a few posters around that think because nothing was finalized that nothing was attempted. And there are some that believe that the 5th or 6th rounder you could've got is better than nothing, which is true to an extent but at that point it's mostly a wash.

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22 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I think you and Phoenix are arguing the same point.  But there are a few posters around that think because nothing was finalized that nothing was attempted. And there are some that believe that the 5th or 6th rounder you could've got is better than nothing, which is true to an extent but at that point it's mostly a wash.

 

And i'm not saying they should have traded him for just anything. If the best offer was a 3rd then sure take a run at the playoffs. 

 

but if your asking me to believe that in almost a full year of putting Brodie on the market the best offer he got is a 3rd round pick, sorry I won't be there. IMO, he didn't pull the trigger because he didn't want to move him for picks he needed someone to help his team now. While that may be fair to some I think it's fair to criticize because that is not ideal asset management especially for where this franchise is right now. 

 

But again is it worth freaking out about or saying "massive failure" absolutely not. It's just not ideal IMO and this franchise needs to be a little better with asset management. When you are not a contender you don't get away with it. 

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46 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Who says he did nothing? In fact i'm saying the exactly opposite. I'm saying that Treliving has been shopping Brodie, by multiple reports. for almost a full year now and now is likely going to have him walk for free. That's not good asset management and not a good look for the GM.

You're absolutely right, I phrased that badly. That's on me 

What I mean is, who says he's had opportunity to? We assume teams were lining up.. we believe he turned Down offers 

For most of the season I'm sure he was being tossed anvils a life preservers 

Valimaki went down just right after the Toronto deal fell apart 

Jets land is right. Some feel you take the 6th rounder but I don't agree ..it's only pure speculation he was even offered that 

Burke loaded the gun that we won't be pushed into deals with Cammalleri, BT has to carry on 

 

I feel under no circumstances do you move him for less than a second .. I'm not convinced anybody was willing to give him that at any point this season after Toronto fell apart 

 

I think as well..any team serious about taking a hard run at him as UFA , will trade us something for his rights at the draft to have that 8th year as ammo 

 

 

Everything in a nutshell..people are getting worked up over what they think happened or did not happen.. bottom line is we don't know

We can't even be 100% sure he was in the Toronto deal cuz now others are saying it was Hamonic ..were dealing and reacting to speculation and guesses 

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It would have been totally crazy asset management to trade Harmonic or Brodie for less than a 2nd. Heck we got Gust which could be rated the same or better than those 2 for a 3rd. If either want to stay in Calgary BT will sign them for a team friendly deal or if they move some team will overpay in $ and term. Ya we could have OVERPAID and brought in a forward but right now we have a solid D core going into the final stages of the season. In years past many teams gave up a 1st + to solidify their D at this time of the season. You sell when prices are high and buy when they are low. Getting a 3rd for either is counterproductive.

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59 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

On another side note.. now 2 of Edmonton's new players are down.. Green out 3-4 weeks lol

 

Is that even a bad thing?  Green is so bad I wish he was in the Oilers lineup.

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is that even a bad thing?  Green is so bad I wish he was in the Oilers lineup.

Hahahaha that’s true! 
 

I also agree with what’s been discussed about Brodie and Hamonic. I’ve always said I’d prefer Brodie to stay, and perhaps I didn’t consider that other teams may have been offering less than a 2nd for him. I would’ve preferred to keep him in the fold at that price as well. 
 

I will say that if this team can all pull their Satoshi Nakamoto together at the same time, the west is open for the taking imo. 

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I think it is time to explore moving Monahan, well at least in the offseason. Monahan does one thing well and that is shooting from the slot, in order to get that shot he needs a playmaker to get him the puck as he can't create his own chances. He is an ok skater, maybe below average. He has good size but he doesn't use it. He is also very poor defensively. The defensive side of things is what is really disappointing to me, when he was drafted he was supposed to be a good two way center, the comparison that was thrown around was Toews. Monahan hasn't come anywhere near that level defensively, it is almost as if he figured that scoring goals was enough. 

 

At this point Monahan has become the type of player where if he doesn't score goals he doesn't help the team. That can't be the case from your number 1 center. 

 

The biggest reason we can move him, is the evolution of Lindholm. I think Lindholm can be that effective two way center that we need on the top line. 

 

Move Monahan for a big return now, and lets reshape this team down the middle.

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I think the Flames should be at the point now that baring a big turnaround and a deep playoff run everything has to be on the table. I'm fine if that's Monahan, Gaudreau whatever as something just does not feel right with this core. Again, they may prove me wrong but that's where I am. 

 

I'm not as convinced in LIndholm>Monahan down the middle and in fact I would disagree. i wasn't that impressed with Lindholm as a center and i felt he made more poor defensive reads than Monahan did. I'm not against a permanent switch, I just haven't liked LIndholm at center as much as I like him on the wing.

 

It's also a bit irrelevant for me. Neither Monahan nor LIndholm is a number one center so unless you can make an external move for another one you are just reshuffling the deck chairs. 

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