Jump to content
The Official Site of the Calgary Flames
Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

Recommended Posts

A list of centres that could be available this summer;

 

Dylan Strome- he's not the most fleet of foot but a smart player. Maybe a hockey trade to be made here

 

Tomas Hertl- I'm not sure if SJ will even send him here. But 2 years left and coming off another significant knee injury. I would argue that he's almost a #1 C though when healthy. Really good in the dot too. I think the Schenn trade would be a template her, 2 1st's and a cap dump (Lehtera)

 

Max Domi- been discussed before, wants to play C, MTL has other plans. They have Danault, Suzuki and Kotkaniemi down the middle. There could be a hockey trade to be ,ade

 

Anthony Cirelli- been discussed too, TB needs young cheap players. Probably Dube, AHLer and a 1st if not more. Offersheet is a possibility but the guy in TB love it there and aren't all that inclined to leave. 

 

Bonus, a RW that could be available

 

Rickard Rakell- 2 years away from UFA, like Hertl they probably won't send him here. His points have dropped as the Ducks have declined, but a 60-70pt player when playing with talent

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

A list of centres that could be available this summer;

 

Dylan Strome- he's not the most fleet of foot but a smart player. Maybe a hockey trade to be made here

 

Tomas Hertl- I'm not sure if SJ will even send him here. But 2 years left and coming off another significant knee injury. I would argue that he's almost a #1 C though when healthy. Really good in the dot too. I think the Schenn trade would be a template her, 2 1st's and a cap dump (Lehtera)

 

Max Domi- been discussed before, wants to play C, MTL has other plans. They have Danault, Suzuki and Kotkaniemi down the middle. There could be a hockey trade to be ,ade

 

Anthony Cirelli- been discussed too, TB needs young cheap players. Probably Dube, AHLer and a 1st if not more. Offersheet is a possibility but the guy in TB love it there and aren't all that inclined to leave. 

 

Bonus, a RW that could be available

 

Rickard Rakell- 2 years away from UFA, like Hertl they probably won't send him here. His points have dropped as the Ducks have declined, but a 60-70pt player when playing with talent

 

 

 

I can't see Strome being available.

He fit like a glove in CHI town.

Started to show like a top 5 pick should.

 

Hertl is not going to be available.  He's one of the few that puts up points.

 

Maybe Domi is made available, but I don't see it.  A bit of a down year, so they would be banking on him returning to form.

His stock would be less as a result of the down year.

 

Cirelli is a guy that fits their team and won't be getting a huge raise.  They have no reason to trade him for a rookie.

 

Rakell may be one of the few actually available.  Anaheim struggles to score goals and he is two years removed from getting over 30 goals.  If they wanted a tougher version that also doesn't score a lot, Bennett would be the perfect trade.  He could play with Getzlaf and help him get back to scoring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I can't see Strome being available.

He fit like a glove in CHI town.

Started to show like a top 5 pick should.

 

Hertl is not going to be available.  He's one of the few that puts up points.

 

Maybe Domi is made available, but I don't see it.  A bit of a down year, so they would be banking on him returning to form.

His stock would be less as a result of the down year.

 

Cirelli is a guy that fits their team and won't be getting a huge raise.  They have no reason to trade him for a rookie.

 

Rakell may be one of the few actually available.  Anaheim struggles to score goals and he is two years removed from getting over 30 goals.  If they wanted a tougher version that also doesn't score a lot, Bennett would be the perfect trade.  He could play with Getzlaf and help him get back to scoring.

MTL and CHI are looking for a LHD to play in their top 4. MTL has no partner for Weber. CHI wants to take the load off Keith. Have to give to get. Brodie almost got Kadri and we all thought Brodie had no value...

 

Think Hertl is gonna be a Shark longterm, when the team is falling off a cliff? Two years and he's gone, the time for them to sell him is now. They have a very shallow prospect pool, it's gonna take 4 or 5 years for them build it back up. 

 

Cirelli is gonna get a huge raise. One of the best two way centres in the league. No cap room. so yes they will trade him for young players on ELC's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

Max Domi- been discussed before, wants to play C, MTL has other plans. They have Danault, Suzuki and Kotkaniemi down the middle. There could be a hockey trade to be ,ade

 

Why does Domi want to play Center?

 

If I'm not mistaken, he was drafted as a LW and played LW in London on a line with Horvat at C.  He was LW with the Coyotes.  And honestly he's not even a good Center with the Habs.  I'm not surprised the Habs are bumping him off Center for others who have more potential at the position.

 

He did have an off-year so maybe he's not that expensive to acquire... Though he's RFA and probably looking for $5-mil-per.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

A list of centres that could be available this summer;

 

You know, this one is kind of out of nowhere but one player we should look into is Sebastian Aho..  it was said last summer the Canes didn't want to pay Aho big money and relationships soured between the two parties.  Aho even signed an offer sheet to leave.

 

Under the rules, the Canes were not allowed to trade him that season immediately after matching the offer sheet but they would be allowed to trade him this off-season.

 

As unlikely as it may be, is there a deal to be made with the Canes?   By all accounts, the Hamilton/Lindholm/Hanifin deal worked out great for both clubs so there is good rapport there.  I would go after Aho if Eichel is not available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Why does Domi want to play Center?

 

If I'm not mistaken, he was drafted as a LW and played LW in London on a line with Horvat at C.  He was LW with the Coyotes.  And honestly he's not even a good Center with the Habs.  I'm not surprised the Habs are bumping him off Center for others who have more potential at the position.

 

He did have an off-year so maybe he's not that expensive to acquire... Though he's RFA and probably looking for $5-mil-per.

Last year they played Domi at C and offensively he exploded, this year they played him at both C and LW and the numbers weren't there. It's an easy excuse, but that could be why. Look at the difference in Backlund this year when they moved him back to C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Last year they played Domi at C and offensively he exploded, this year they played him at both C and LW and the numbers weren't there. It's an easy excuse, but that could be why. Look at the difference in Backlund this year when they moved him back to C.

I get the reasons why he is struggling.

What exactly would they want or expect to get for him?

Nobody is going to trade a young cheap winger that has any kind of high end skill for Domi.

MTL wouldn't take Dube, just because he has a French name.

No team is going to give MTL a winger with similar stats to Domi unless he is more expensive.

They can easily sign a Brodie like player in the off season.

 

The best we could offer would be Bennett or Janko (RFA with arb rights).

Neither of those makes MTL better.

One would make them as tough as they had with Domi.

The other would give them some additional size and possibly an underutilized player.

But they can sign him in the summer.

 

I don't think we have anything else that we should trade.

Realistic players that is.

Kylington might get the job done, but he's a decent prospect that we may need next year.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

I get the reasons why he is struggling.

What exactly would they want or expect to get for him?

Nobody is going to trade a young cheap winger that has any kind of high end skill for Domi.

MTL wouldn't take Dube, just because he has a French name.

No team is going to give MTL a winger with similar stats to Domi unless he is more expensive.

They can easily sign a Brodie like player in the off season.

 

The best we could offer would be Bennett or Janko (RFA with arb rights).

Neither of those makes MTL better.

One would make them as tough as they had with Domi.

The other would give them some additional size and possibly an underutilized player.

But they can sign him in the summer.

 

I don't think we have anything else that we should trade.

Realistic players that is.

Kylington might get the job done, but he's a decent prospect that we may need next year.

 

I would think Hanifin would be MTL's ask.

 

Who knows, seems the team is down on Hanifin. But still young and has some nice term left.

 

BT was also in the Desert when they picked Domi, so that link exists

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Last year they played Domi at C and offensively he exploded, this year they played him at both C and LW and the numbers weren't there. It's an easy excuse, but that could be why. Look at the difference in Backlund this year when they moved him back to C.

 

True.  For the offense. 

 

I don't have the advanced stats to back this up but sounded like Domi was average all around C.  Was better at LW.  But ya, the offense was there when he played Center.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

True.  For the offense. 

 

I don't have the advanced stats to back this up but sounded like Domi was average all around C.  Was better at LW.  But ya, the offense was there when he played Center.

His faceoff % was poor, but it's also an adjustment, playing 3 years in the league and then being thrust to the middle, faceoffs can be improved. But yeah, I'm not too far into analytics, I don't know how good he was all-round at C.

 

But him and Tkachuk would be a phenomenal pair

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to Friemdan, Strome was available at the trade deadline and the cost was not prohibitive either. Sounds like he is out there and available but there are also reasons for that. IMO, he's a terrible fit on the Flames. Not very fleet of foot and I don't thikn his abilty to create makes up for his lack of speed so he's not a great top 6 option. He's also not very good defensively so he doens't really provide you a match-up problem in the bottom 6. all in all, not a good fit and part of the reason why Chicago isn't commiting him despite his numbers.

 

Domi was pretty good offensively at center but was a little sub par defensively. Not fair to necessarily slight him for that thought given it was a small sample size and a transition so possible he could be an above avg center. My biggest problem with Domi is you are going to pay a high acquisition cost plus with 2 year away from UFA you likely need to hand out a big extension for a guy who probably is not even an upgrade over Backlund (considering all around impact). Are you prepared to pay all that for a maybe upgrade?

 

I'd be a hard pass on Hertl too. Call me conservative but i'm not keen on the idea of giving up a bunch of future for a guy coming off his 2nd knee at age 26 who needs to get paid in 2 years. 

 

Cierli i'm very open to because he is the only option here that provides you flexibility. He's a wicked two way player who you can move him up and down the lineup and utilize him and Backlund in similar ways which in turn frees up Monahan. Probably a decent acquisition cost but at least you get years of control. This type of move makes sense to me. 

 

Flames are in tough improving their centers IMO. I think your either pay up for a legit number 1 that comes available (again i know this isn't likely to happen) or you try and find someone like a Cirelli that provides you flexibility. I don't think paying high acquisition cost or salary makes sense because overal i'm not sure it would make the Flames a more dangerous team. I don't consider offense from their centers as a weakness, unless you are talking about replacing Monahan. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple reasons I want another C, whether it be to play on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd line:

 

-I want Dube to be surrounded by more skill, Ryan is fine, but if the plan is for Ryan-Lucic to be a pair, then get Dube away from that line. If they ever want Dube to be more than a 15pt bottom 6 player, they need to surround him with more talent. 

-The Flames need one more impactful forward. Mangiapane's emergence was a welcome sight, but this team has been searching for another scoring threat seemingly forever. Nothing in forward UFA group is particularly interesting. If they are to give up assets, I'd rather it be on a C. Backlund is great, but how long will he play at this level? A drop-off will happen eventually and there's nothing in the pipeline that screams top 6 C. 

-Finally, unless this team makes some noise in the playoff. I think something of note needs to happen to this roster. They aren't as bad as 17/18, but not as good as 18/19. They are right, smack-dab in the middle and average, fringe playoff team IMO. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

But him and Tkachuk would be a phenomenal pair

 

It would be special for sure.  Both players bring grit.  Domi is the toughest 5'-10" in the NHL.  Both can make plays.  Need a defensively aware RW who has a good shot/finish to complement.  Lots of potential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

-I want Dube to be surrounded by more skill, Ryan is fine, but if the plan is for Ryan-Lucic to be a pair, then get Dube away from that line. If they ever want Dube to be more than a 15pt bottom 6 player, they need to surround him with more talent. 

 

Where do you see Dube though?  If we bring in a C, then that pushes Dube down the depth chart and/or throws him onto the Wing.  That kind of defeats the purpose of developing Dube as a C.  Also LW is stacked as is.  Dube won't play above Gaudreau and Tkachuk on LW.  Or even Mangiapane.  So move Dube to RW?

 

In perfect world, Dube emerges as 2nd line scoring C right away pushing Backlund down to 3rd line defensive Center.  Which means we need to add a 2nd/3rd line RW with skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Where do you see Dube though?  If we bring in a C, then that pushes Dube down the depth chart and/or throws him onto the Wing.  That kind of defeats the purpose of developing Dube as a C.  Also LW is stacked as is.  Dube won't play above Gaudreau and Tkachuk on LW.  Or even Mangiapane.  So move Dube to RW?

 

In perfect world, Dube emerges as 2nd line scoring C right away pushing Backlund down to 3rd line defensive Center.  Which means we need to add a 2nd/3rd line RW with skills.

Another one of Burke's interviews, he said that when they drafted Dube their projection for him was a LW at the NHL level.

 

If that's true, and BT was able to pull off a deal like the reported Kadri trade, you bump Backlund to 3C and pair Dube with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Couple reasons I want another C, whether it be to play on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd line:

 

-I want Dube to be surrounded by more skill, Ryan is fine, but if the plan is for Ryan-Lucic to be a pair, then get Dube away from that line. If they ever want Dube to be more than a 15pt bottom 6 player, they need to surround him with more talent. 

-The Flames need one more impactful forward. Mangiapane's emergence was a welcome sight, but this team has been searching for another scoring threat seemingly forever. Nothing in forward UFA group is particularly interesting. If they are to give up assets, I'd rather it be on a C. Backlund is great, but how long will he play at this level? A drop-off will happen eventually and there's nothing in the pipeline that screams top 6 C. 

-Finally, unless this team makes some noise in the playoff. I think something of note needs to happen to this roster. They aren't as bad as 17/18, but not as good as 18/19. They are right, smack-dab in the middle and average, fringe playoff team IMO. 

 

This all makes sense and to be clear i'm not advocating the Flames not look at improving their centers, I just don't think it's going to be easy.  I don't disagree with some of your conclusions here, although I do think it's worth pointing out that more often than not over the last 3-4 seasons this offense has been among the best in the league. 

 

Your last point is the one i would agree with 100% which is why I say i think this all starts with Monahan. I'm just not a believer that what you do behind him matters a whole lot if he is still holding down the number 1 job. 

 

if it were me running the Flames I would be aggressive to try and find an upgrade to Monahan and then move Bennett to center full time in a 3rd line capacity. 

 

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

It would be special for sure.  Both players bring grit.  Domi is the toughest 5'-10" in the NHL.  Both can make plays.  Need a defensively aware RW who has a good shot/finish to complement.  Lots of potential.

 

I think people have a misconception of Domi based on his last name. While i'm certainly not suggesting he is soft or anything, he's not exactly the physical buzz saw his dad was. I think part of what has opened up his game in Montreal is playing in space and open ice and not having to do the dirty work along the boards. It's fits his game better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Another one of Burke's interviews, he said that when they drafted Dube their projection for him was a LW at the NHL level.

 

If that's true, and BT was able to pull off a deal like the reported Kadri trade, you bump Backlund to 3C and pair Dube with him.

 

Well even with someone like Kadri, we have Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Mangiapane on LW... And Lucic as 4th line LW.  There's no where for Dube to play on LW.

 

Not to mention Bennett and potentially Pelletier coming up soon.  I even think Jankowski should move to LW because he's got a good wrist shot off the rush.  Plus he's bad as a Center.  He should try LW and focus on using his breakaway speed and shot.

 

Dube is 2nd like C or bust... Or move to RW but that's not his strength.  Maybe he's actually a trade chip that we can use to land a RW or RD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I think people have a misconception of Domi based on his last name. While i'm certainly not suggesting he is soft or anything, he's not exactly the physical buzz saw his dad was. I think part of what has opened up his game in Montreal is playing in space and open ice and not having to do the dirty work along the boards. It's fits his game better. 

 

Fair but we've seen Domi fight guys bigger than him and win.  He doesn't shy away from fighting.

 

Would you do Hanifin for Domi straight up? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

If that's true, and BT was able to pull off a deal like the reported Kadri trade, you bump Backlund to 3C and pair Dube with him.

 

But hey good sign we almost pulled off the Kadri deal.  At least it shows BT is looking at adding a Center.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well even with someone like Kadri, we have Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Mangiapane on LW... And Lucic as 4th line LW.  There's no where for Dube to play on LW.

 

Not to mention Bennett and potentially Pelletier coming up soon.  I even think Jankowski should move to LW because he's got a good wrist shot off the rush.  Plus he's bad as a Center.  He should try LW and focus on using his breakaway speed and shot.

 

Dube is 2nd like C or bust... Or move to RW but that's not his strength.  Maybe he's actually a trade chip that we can use to land a RW or RD.

It's interesting, what they do with Dube, he was 0% in the circle, meaning he either took zero or a handful of draws. That kinda proves Burke right about where they see him as an NHLer

 

If the Flames stand pat, the top 6 is set for next year and at best he's on the 3rd line, just hopefully with more skill than Lucic.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Where do you see Dube though?  If we bring in a C, then that pushes Dube down the depth chart and/or throws him onto the Wing.  That kind of defeats the purpose of developing Dube as a C.  Also LW is stacked as is.  Dube won't play above Gaudreau and Tkachuk on LW.  Or even Mangiapane.  So move Dube to RW?

 

In perfect world, Dube emerges as 2nd line scoring C right away pushing Backlund down to 3rd line defensive Center.  Which means we need to add a 2nd/3rd line RW with skills.

 

I get that Dube was drafted as a C but the thing with drafting C is typically they're a better all-rounded player. So you draft for the intangibles a C brings, but use them elsewhere. I don't see him as a C because they don't use him there. I am beginning to think that playing guys out of their position ruins their play within that position, especially at the NHL level as C is so much harder in the NHL. 

 

Can he play C? 

 

I wish that if they want to develop centers then they better start playing them in that position. How many haven't been played there, yet the expectation is to grow into the position? It doesn't work that way. 

 

It's the same thing with Bennett, played on LW, not at C, then expected to play his way up and into the position. What Lindholm said about playing C is true, if you don't give players enough time to grow into the position then don't bother trying them there. Two games or so isn't going to be enough. People on here are criticizing him for his play on the Dot, but we gotta remember he has played the wing for most of his NHL career and it takes reps to get back into the position. I think he would have grown into a very good #2C if we kept him there. 

 

Do we see Dube as a C? The dropped the ball on developing him as one in the AHL by taking him up to the bigs early then. I think if they wanted him at C, play the hell out of them in the AHL to get used to the position. Play them a lot. I think there has gotta be a fine line between earning and developing. Is earning a spot getting in the way of development? Players need more playing time to develop, but if they're not putting the effort and earning the spot... What do you do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

It's interesting, what they do with Dube, he was 0% in the circle, meaning he either took zero or a handful of draws. That kinda proves Burke right about where they see him as an NHLer

 

If the Flames stand pat, the top 6 is set for next year and at best he's on the 3rd line, just hopefully with more skill than Lucic.

 

 

It's time to trade some LW and LD for C, RW, or RD.

 

More than ever before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well even with someone like Kadri, we have Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Mangiapane on LW... And Lucic as 4th line LW.  There's no where for Dube to play on LW.

 

Not to mention Bennett and potentially Pelletier coming up soon.  I even think Jankowski should move to LW because he's got a good wrist shot off the rush.  Plus he's bad as a Center.  He should try LW and focus on using his breakaway speed and shot.

 

Dube is 2nd like C or bust... Or move to RW but that's not his strength.  Maybe he's actually a trade chip that we can use to land a RW or RD.

 

I see it as a line problem.  We use guys on RW some times.

Mangiapane developed as a scoring threat on RW because they kept him there at all times.

He learned where he needed to be, especially with his linemates' play.

Bennett has played all three positions, sometimes in the same game.

He has no clue where he should be.

They stuck to certain trios because one of the 3 played good in a few games.

 

I have no illusions about Lucic.

No point in clogging up the LW if he can play as hard on RW.

He's not going to score goals on the rush, so passing is not important to him.

He's just as apt to pass on his weak side as strong one.

As soon as you do that, you can better fit lines together.

Lucic might even score more because he is being set up on the right side (faster release).

 

Unless Bennett has a strong playoff, he's not going to be here next season.

Too expensive a role player.

We have some prospects that could be battling for a spot, some of them not being household names.

If they light train camp on fire, the Bennetts and Dubes of the world could be on the way out.

There are only 6 players that are a lock to be in the Flames future plans.

Giadreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Backlund and Mangiapane.

The rest only survive due to perceived value (guy like Ryan who can win faceoffs), low trade value or NMC.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I get that Dube was drafted as a C but the thing with drafting C is typically they're a better all-rounded player. So you draft for the intangibles a C brings, but use them elsewhere. I don't see him as a C because they don't use him there. I am beginning to think that playing guys out of their position ruins their play within that position, especially at the NHL level as C is so much harder in the NHL. 

 

Can he play C? 

 

I wish that if they want to develop centers then they better start playing them in that position. How many haven't been played there, yet the expectation is to grow into the position? It doesn't work that way. 

 

It's the same thing with Bennett, played on LW, not at C, then expected to play his way up and into the position. What Lindholm said about playing C is true, if you don't give players enough time to grow into the position then don't bother trying them there. Two games or so isn't going to be enough. People on here are criticizing him for his play on the Dot, but we gotta remember he has played the wing for most of his NHL career and it takes reps to get back into the position. I think he would have grown into a very good #2C if we kept him there. 

 

Do we see Dube as a C? The dropped the ball on developing him as one in the AHL by taking him up to the bigs early then. I think if they wanted him at C, play the hell out of them in the AHL to get used to the position. Play them a lot. I think there has gotta be a fine line between earning and developing. Is earning a spot getting in the way of development? Players need more playing time to develop, but if they're not putting the effort and earning the spot... What do you do?

 

Dube's game is more a Center than a winger.  

 

Great skating, two-way responsible, and better passer than finisher.  He can carry the puck up ice and somewhat drive play which is an important element of playing Center.

 

He plays like a young Backlund... I agree play him at C and let him grow there.  Don't go throwing kids all around the lineup playing them on RW and then when they fail, blame them.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...