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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Bias for sures.  But also should not be laughed at so quickly because that may be the sentiment on Gaudreau around the league... Not that he's worse than Miller but he's not an elite player.  Not truly a difference maker.  When he's not scoring, he's not doing anything for you.

 

I share the opinion of Brew.

Players may not like him but they respect him.

Coaches draw up plays to beat him.

They are not worried about Monahan by himself.

Or Gio or Bennett.

Tkachuk is a different kettle of fish.

You coach your players to ignore him and watch his tricky plays.

I don't think that's easy to do.

 

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16 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

All this talk about how does BUF keep EIchel happy, then the Peglua's go out and stab Botts in the back. That won't do it.

 

I would imagine that Botts and Pegula have differing opinions on the roster, Pegula probably thinks they are only a piece or two away. That isn't the case. It's a long way of saying there may be a chance Cozens is available. 

 

Anyway, no GM with any credentials will ever go to BUF again. It takes a first time GM a few years to get their legs under them and BUF gets rid of you well before that. 

 


Eichel is 5 years into Buffalo with ZERO playoffs. Then they can the GM, and hire a former player who’s never been a GM. If I’m Eichel, “starting from scratch - again” is not what I want to do. Especially with inexperience at the helm. I read the Pegula’s cut a lot of staff and scouts and such as well. Not sure how confident that makes Eichel about the direction of the team. I personally believe Eichel is going to ask for a trade in due time. He’s too competitive to stay on this ride. BT, get Kevyn on the phone already!

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7 hours ago, lou44291 said:


Eichel is 5 years into Buffalo with ZERO playoffs. Then they can the GM, and hire a former player who’s never been a GM. If I’m Eichel, “starting from scratch - again” is not what I want to do. Especially with inexperience at the helm. I read the Pegula’s cut a lot of staff and scouts and such as well. Not sure how confident that makes Eichel about the direction of the team. I personally believe Eichel is going to ask for a trade in due time. He’s too competitive to stay on this ride. BT, get Kevyn on the phone already!

I think every GM is going to try to take advantage of Adams inexperience. Brian Burke said yesterday he received zero texts from execs saying they wish they got that BUF job lol. Unless they bring in an experiences president of hockey ops, you're dealing with the Pegula's.

 

 

I think you make a massive proposal for Eichel. You can play off the fact that Eichel and Monahan have the same career high in points, 82 and Monahan  is 37% cheaper for Buffalo. 

 

Unfortunately for Calgary this is the only offseason that I think they could in theory trade for Eichel. Next offseason Gaudreau only has 1 year, and Monahan has a M-NTC, no chance he would waive for Buffalo. You'd have to be willing to move Lindholm or Tkachuk at that point.

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9 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think every GM is going to try to take advantage of Adams inexperience. Brian Burke said yesterday he received zero texts from execs saying they wish they got that BUF job lol. Unless they bring in an experiences president of hockey ops, you're dealing with the Pegula's.

 

 

I think you make a massive proposal for Eichel. You can play off the fact that Eichel and Monahan have the same career high in points, 82 and Monahan  is 37% cheaper for Buffalo. 

 

Unfortunately for Calgary this is the only offseason that I think they could in theory trade for Eichel. Next offseason Gaudreau only has 1 year, and Monahan has a M-NTC, no chance he would waive for Buffalo. You'd have to be willing to move Lindholm or Tkachuk at that point.

 

Well, if you traded Monahan for Eichel, Gaudreau would put until hockey started.  Then he would form a new bond with Eichel that would be unstoppable.

Imagine JH playing with someone with speed an tenacity.

I think that would erase the possibility of Gaudreau not re-signing.

 

Back to the trade.  I don't know how you structure that deal.  You would need to offer a lot more than just Monahan.  Buffalo needs some veteran leadership and skill up front.

 

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2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, if you traded Monahan for Eichel, Gaudreau would put until hockey started.  Then he would form a new bond with Eichel that would be unstoppable.

Imagine JH playing with someone with speed an tenacity.

I think that would erase the possibility of Gaudreau not re-signing.

 

Back to the trade.  I don't know how you structure that deal.  You would need to offer a lot more than just Monahan.  Buffalo needs some veteran leadership and skill up front.

 

The Flames would have to make Godfather offer, you're talking about 6 years of prime Eichel, most likely the best 6 years of his career. The Sabres have only 4 forwards signed for next season, many of which won't be tendered so they can take some bodies.

 

Monahan- mitigates the loss of Eichel, not as good as Eichel but can play #1 C minutes and still score 20-25, 3 more years on a fair deal

Hanifin- the left side of Buffalo's defence is very bad behind Dahlin. 4 years of Hanifin on a very fair deal

Dube- the Sabres lack young skill, this could be Dube or Pelletier.

Bennett- the Sabres bottom 6 is horrible. Bennett brings some grit to Buffalo, which will make him a fan favorite

2020 1st round draft pick

2021 1st round round draft pick

2022 2nd round draft pick

 

 

7 pieces for Eichel. This package helps the Sabres by plugging a few of the many holes in that lineup for at least the next 3 seasons and they also receive significant futures. 

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11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Bias for sures.  But also should not be laughed at so quickly because that may be the sentiment on Gaudreau around the league... Not that he's worse than Miller but he's not an elite player.  Not truly a difference maker.  When he's not scoring, he's not doing anything for you.

 

It's fair. i would imagine there would be a wide range on Gaudreau and his value given previous bias about LWers (their impact) and his size. 

 

That being said, I've also read this was a proposal floated by Devils fans of what they would pay for Gaudreau:

 

2020 1st round pick (theirs)

2020 1st Round pick (Arz)

Gusev

Jesper Boqvist ( 2017 2nd rounder)

 

for 

 

Gaudreau

Kylington

 

so who knows....

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8 hours ago, lou44291 said:


Eichel is 5 years into Buffalo with ZERO playoffs. Then they can the GM, and hire a former player who’s never been a GM. If I’m Eichel, “starting from scratch - again” is not what I want to do. Especially with inexperience at the helm. I read the Pegula’s cut a lot of staff and scouts and such as well. Not sure how confident that makes Eichel about the direction of the team. I personally believe Eichel is going to ask for a trade in due time. He’s too competitive to stay on this ride. BT, get Kevyn on the phone already!

I don't think Eichel was in the dark about this decision, I wouldn't even be surprised if the decision to can him came after they talked to Eichel.  My money has said all along he isn't going anywhere this year, and this move IMO is to be more aggressive in getting him the help.

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14 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't think Eichel was in the dark about this decision, I wouldn't even be surprised if the decision to can him came after they talked to Eichel.  My money has said all along he isn't going anywhere this year, and this move IMO is to be more aggressive in getting him the help.

I would agree. Two days ago I felt there was zero chance they would move Cozens or their 1st. Right now I think they will. That's a team with so many holes and not many attractive assets. The Sabres are going to look short-term this offseason, which never works.

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24 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I would agree. Two days ago I felt there was zero chance they would move Cozens or their 1st. Right now I think they will. That's a team with so many holes and not many attractive assets. The Sabres are going to look short-term this offseason, which never works.

 

You think that a team with the desire to improve moves one of their near sure things to improve elsewhere?

They have a clean slate to re-make the team this year.

So many holes to fill.

Unless they are trading Coz for a young player with limited NHL experience and a huge upside, I don't see the reasoning.

If they are looking for that player, the trading team balks.

So, they are going to target UFA's and look for trades of role players that are needed.

So, you might see Okposo used to get a ffew pieces.

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4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You think that a team with the desire to improve moves one of their near sure things to improve elsewhere?

They have a clean slate to re-make the team this year.

So many holes to fill.

Unless they are trading Coz for a young player with limited NHL experience and a huge upside, I don't see the reasoning.

If they are looking for that player, the trading team balks.

So, they are going to target UFA's and look for trades of role players that are needed.

So, you might see Okposo used to get a ffew pieces.

How are the Sabres going to improve? They have this season to make the playoffs

 

Eichel, Dahlin and Reinhart are the only Sabres with any value.

 

They need 2C, 3C, 2RW, a starting goalie and a 2nd pair LHD.

 

Hall and Petro aren't going there. They can load up on UFA and set themselves back another 5 years, giving Toffoli and Haula 5 year deals. That's no way to build a team.

 

Risto isn't getting them a top 6 forward, maybe a 3rd line C like Faksa. The league is analytics driven and Risto is an analytical nightmare. 

 

Okposo is one of the worst contracts in the game, he had a similar season to Lucic, one more injury and he may be LTIR fodder.

 

They really have nothing other than Cozens and the 1st that will get immediate help

 

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So a little bit lost in the headlines of firing Botterill is the Sabres cleaned house. Botterril out, AGMS out, half their scouting staff (approximately) out and their entire AHL coaching staff. 

 

This is a re do of the entire organization, not just a move to appease 1 player or get more aggressive. They are trying to find more efficiency within the organization and the fired Botterill because he balked at all of this. 

 

I don't suspect they are going to be aggressive to get better here..... If anything they'll go the other way. 

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2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

So a little bit lost in the headlines of firing Botterill is the Sabres cleaned house. Botterril out, AGMS out, half their scouting staff (approximately) out and their entire AHL coaching staff. 

 

This is a re do of the entire organization, not just a move to appease 1 player or get more aggressive. They are trying to find more efficiency within the organization and the fired Botterill because he balked at all of this. 

 

I don't suspect they are going to be aggressive to get better here..... If anything they'll go the other way. 

 

In other words, you feel this was all to appease 1 player?

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25 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

How are the Sabres going to improve? They have this season to make the playoffs

 

Eichel, Dahlin and Reinhart are the only Sabres with any value.

 

They need 2C, 3C, 2RW, a starting goalie and a 2nd pair LHD.

 

Hall and Petro aren't going there. They can load up on UFA and set themselves back another 5 years, giving Toffoli and Haula 5 year deals. That's no way to build a team.

 

Risto isn't getting them a top 6 forward, maybe a 3rd line C like Faksa. The league is analytics driven and Risto is an analytical nightmare. 

 

Okposo is one of the worst contracts in the game, he had a similar season to Lucic, one more injury and he may be LTIR fodder.

 

They really have nothing other than Cozens and the 1st that will get immediate help

 

 

Well, I think you left out some pieces that are or should be core.  Olofsson for sure.

Larsson - not a big contributor bu he was a + player the entire year

Miller - RHS D-man with reasonable cap

Montour - RHS D-man that can do it all

Jokiharju - cheap contract D-man; decent potential

 

Whatever they do, winning is going to factor into their decision making about filling the team.

They might have to bleed some prospects and picks to get the job done.

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4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, I think you left out some pieces that are or should be core.  Olofsson for sure.

Larsson - not a big contributor bu he was a + player the entire year

Miller - RHS D-man with reasonable cap

Montour - RHS D-man that can do it all

Jokiharju - cheap contract D-man; decent potential

 

Whatever they do, winning is going to factor into their decision making about filling the team.

They might have to bleed some prospects and picks to get the job done.

That's still not a great core.

 

Jokiharju and Olofsson they probably need to keep.

 

Larsson is a UFA. Bottom 6 player

 

Miller stunk as a Sabre. Montour is good but injury prone.

 

It's a real mess

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

They really have nothing other than Cozens and the 1st that will get immediate help

 

 

Ya agreed here.  If they want immediate impact, it will have to come at a cost of futures. Cozens and the 1st can/should get Gaudreau, for example.  

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

So a little bit lost in the headlines of firing Botterill is the Sabres cleaned house. Botterril out, AGMS out, half their scouting staff (approximately) out and their entire AHL coaching staff. 

 

This is a re do of the entire organization, not just a move to appease 1 player or get more aggressive. They are trying to find more efficiency within the organization and the fired Botterill because he balked at all of this. 

 

I don't suspect they are going to be aggressive to get better here..... If anything they'll go the other way. 

I was listening to an interview with Marty Biron, he special guests on a show in Buffalo with Peters and Rivet, where he had heard that the owners wanted to start turning a profit ASAP with a mix of a better on ice product AND major behind the scene cost cutting.  The rumor was was even going to lengths of having a minimal scouting staff and going mostly by numbers and video. It was even hinted this may be a quick fix for franchise value in the hopes of a sale in the near future. I dont think it will come to that but stranger things have happened.

 

If thats true.........what a s**tshow.

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39 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

That's still not a great core.

 

Jokiharju and Olofsson they probably need to keep.

 

Larsson is a UFA. Bottom 6 player

 

Miller stunk as a Sabre. Montour is good but injury prone.

 

It's a real mess

 

All true, but most teams only have a core of a similar size and skill level.

The market for Skinner and Okposo would be small and that's if they retained salary.

They need to consider this year's draft as a sale.

Sell Okposo for a minor pick.

Trade Risto for whatever you can get.

Make any trades for picks of existing players possible.

Trade for players with top picks (1st and 2nd) and even consider next year's pick.

The UFA season can be used to pick up role players. 

Go big on Holtby or Lehner.

Look into Granlund.

Look for some leadership like Koivu.

 

It's a tall task, but spending money is going to be the first order.

Unless you are taking on a bunch of expensive forwards, the cap/payroll should not be a huge issue.

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My sense from the whole Buffalo situation is that the Pegula's just wanted more say in what was happening on the hockey side of things. They bought the team and threw a bunch of money at the team to try and make it better, but it blew up in their face. Since then they hired a bunch of "hockey guys" to run the hockey side of things and that hasn't gone well either. Now I think they are looking to streamline the hockey side. I think you will see Kruger act as a Coach/GM and be heavily involved in the player acquisition side of things and Adams will be of a President of Hockey Ops type, where he will be involved in the money and business side of things, and will be the go between for the Pegula's and Kruger.

 

The have a solid core of pieces to work with. They have a franchise center in Eichel, they have an elite number 1 defenseman in Dahlin. Add in guys like Reinhart, Jokiharju, Cozens. The pieces are there for a consistent winner, they just need to work on their depth at this point. They could also use a 1A goalie to tandem with Ullmark.

 

I can't see them moving any of the core pieces listed. I think they will look to go hard after Hall and Pietrangelo. 

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1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I was listening to an interview with Marty Biron, he special guests on a show in Buffalo with Peters and Rivet, where he had heard that the owners wanted to start turning a profit ASAP with a mix of a better on ice product AND major behind the scene cost cutting.  The rumor was was even going to lengths of having a minimal scouting staff and going mostly by numbers and video. It was even hinted this may be a quick fix for franchise value in the hopes of a sale in the near future. I dont think it will come to that but stranger things have happened.

 

If thats true.........what a s**tshow.

 

30 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

My sense from the whole Buffalo situation is that the Pegula's just wanted more say in what was happening on the hockey side of things. They bought the team and threw a bunch of money at the team to try and make it better, but it blew up in their face. Since then they hired a bunch of "hockey guys" to run the hockey side of things and that hasn't gone well either. Now I think they are looking to streamline the hockey side. I think you will see Kruger act as a Coach/GM and be heavily involved in the player acquisition side of things and Adams will be of a President of Hockey Ops type, where he will be involved in the money and business side of things, and will be the go between for the Pegula's and Kruger.

 

The have a solid core of pieces to work with. They have a franchise center in Eichel, they have an elite number 1 defenseman in Dahlin. Add in guys like Reinhart, Jokiharju, Cozens. The pieces are there for a consistent winner, they just need to work on their depth at this point. They could also use a 1A goalie to tandem with Ullmark.

 

I can't see them moving any of the core pieces listed. I think they will look to go hard after Hall and Pietrangelo. 

 

Ultimately, this buys time.

 

The new guy going in there can say, "the previous guy screwed up, give me two years (or three) and I'm going to fix this thing for good".

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The sabres are starting to look a bit like the sens in their management team.  Low cost, low effectiveness.  Hopefully they don't plan on following the sens in their roster decisions (taking on contracts with higher cap hits than actual salary, trading away players for savings etc.)

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51 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

My sense from the whole Buffalo situation is that the Pegula's just wanted more say in what was happening on the hockey side of things. They bought the team and threw a bunch of money at the team to try and make it better, but it blew up in their face. Since then they hired a bunch of "hockey guys" to run the hockey side of things and that hasn't gone well either. Now I think they are looking to streamline the hockey side. I think you will see Kruger act as a Coach/GM and be heavily involved in the player acquisition side of things and Adams will be of a President of Hockey Ops type, where he will be involved in the money and business side of things, and will be the go between for the Pegula's and Kruger.

 

The have a solid core of pieces to work with. They have a franchise center in Eichel, they have an elite number 1 defenseman in Dahlin. Add in guys like Reinhart, Jokiharju, Cozens. The pieces are there for a consistent winner, they just need to work on their depth at this point. They could also use a 1A goalie to tandem with Ullmark.

 

I can't see them moving any of the core pieces listed. I think they will look to go hard after Hall and Pietrangelo. 

 

This is probably reasonable. Friedman today was commenting that Botterill didn't want to do either the Skinner deal or the Eichel deal (he didn't like the term on either) but was basically told "do it". 

 

I'm not as bullish on their core as I would not consider it very solid and the fact that they have 2 anchor contracts is going to hurt them. While I don't disagree that they will push to try and get better now i just don't see how it's going to work. I mean if you are Hall or Pietrangelo why would you even give a second thought of going there? I get Eichel is a draw but does that outweigh the fact that they have no direction and have gassed a GM every 3 years since the Pegula's bought the team? I think the top free agents won't even consider it as an option and it won't matter how much $ is on the table. 

 

I think what will end up happening is they'll get suck exactly where they've been for a while. They'll give out too much $ to middle of the road players and stay a below average team until Eichel demands a trade and they need to totally rebuild. 

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The Sam Reinhart negotiation fascinates me.

 

He's 2 years away from UFA status and has endured more losing in Buffalo than Eichel. 

 

A fair long term deal for Reinhart is 6-7mill depending on the term.

 

However, he's the 2nd best forward BUF has and deserves to be paid like it. Skinner at 9mill throws a wrench into that. This seems crazy, but Reinhart at 9.2-9.5 seems fair given how much younger and better he is than Skinner. The past 3 seasons Reinhart has 30 more points than Skinner, a large sample size. 

 

Reinhart holds a lot of leverage, he can go to arb and elect a 2 year deal to hit UFA as early as possible, or he can demand north of 9 to remain a long term Sabre.

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34 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The Sam Reinhart negotiation fascinates me.

 

He's 2 years away from UFA status and has endured more losing in Buffalo than Eichel. 

 

A fair long term deal for Reinhart is 6-7mill depending on the term.

 

However, he's the 2nd best forward BUF has and deserves to be paid like it. Skinner at 9mill throws a wrench into that. This seems crazy, but Reinhart at 9.2-9.5 seems fair given how much younger and better he is than Skinner. The past 3 seasons Reinhart has 30 more points than Skinner, a large sample size. 

 

Reinhart holds a lot of leverage, he can go to arb and elect a 2 year deal to hit UFA as early as possible, or he can demand north of 9 to remain a long term Sabre.

 

If I'm the team and he doesn't sign for a deal before having to be qualified, then they would likely pick a one year deal going into arbitration.

He for sure has value, but I don't see anything close to $7.5m in his scoring.

So, I think his leverage is minor.

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10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If I'm the team and he doesn't sign for a deal before having to be qualified, then they would likely pick a one year deal going into arbitration.

He for sure has value, but I don't see anything close to $7.5m in his scoring.

So, I think his leverage is minor.

If the club takes him to arb, he can elect a 2 year deal, which would most likely be the case

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