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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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9 hours ago, lou44291 said:


Apologies for the novel, was feeling passionate about the topic. 
 

TL;DR is: Calgary rules, Buffalo drools. 😂 LOL


I’ve never been more interested in the Sabres in my life! LOL. I want to grab a bag of popcorn to see how this off-season unfolds for them!  I wish a had a timeline to rehash all the drama in this post!

 

Going into this off-season, half the team is RFA and UFA. To add to that, they now have a first-time GM that has all this cap space to use in a free agency... when no A-list player would ever sign with them. I mean, sure, there will be bottom 6 players eager to sign for top 6 money there, but this team has so few assets under contract to even trade to acquire other assets, and no one of quality is going to sign there in the off-season... it’s a train wreck!
 

- Buffalo will be interested in players already under contract, so they have them under their control.
- Buffalo will be even more interested in acquiring players with team-friendly (read: low dollar value) contracts, so that they maximize their bottom line.

- Buffalo will be interested in players that can create a buzz for fans (players that have a quality or identity that’s been lacking on the team)

- Buffalo will be interested in trading the future for the now

- Buffalo only has a few valuable assets to acquire any of the above. 

If Dhalin and Cozens are the future, Buffalo needs players who can bridge the gap and get them in the playoffs now. Veteran leaders that have had success in the league to pave the way for those young players. Eichel is an “in between”. He doesn’t fit the “right now” Sabres, and his contract will be nearing an end when Dhalin and Cozens begin to come into their own. Do I think it’s probable Eichel is traded? No. Do I think it’s possible Eichel could be traded? More than I ever have before. Again, I don’t think it’s likely, but I also believe the chances have never been better for such a thing to occur. And oddly enough, I think the Flames have the pieces to do it.
 

If we are going to acquire Eichel, it’s going to have to be a bold move by the GM. Eichel ain’t coming here for our scraps. If we offer Monahan & Gaudreau for Eichel as I suggested a long time ago, I truly think it happens. Buffalo couldn’t say no to 2 players that produce on average around double the points per season that Eichel does. 2 players that are on team-friendly contracts. 2 players that have years of chemistry already. 2 players that would create a crazy buzz in the fan base. 2 players that can help the Sabres get into the playoffs. 2 players that might draw other NHL players to come play with... like I said, it would have to be a bold move on our end to get Buffalo to make a bold move with Eichel. Would that be my first offer to Buffalo though? No. In any negotiation you have to feel out your trading partner. But I think any trade for Eichel starts with Monahan, and I’d add varying combinations of pieces (Not all of them of course!) like:

- Bennett (he has high draft pedigree, brings intangibles like toughness, and was drafted as a Center - a typical “change of scenery” type player).
- Hanifin (they need LD right? Team friendly contract with term)

- Jankowski (high draft pedigree, big centerman, potential to regain PK prowess)

- Kylington (Another young promising D to grow with the team)

- Draft picks/prospects that align with Buffalos youth movement and Gillies as a throw in.  

- and Yes, I’d float Lucic to them as well, just in case. Salary would likely have to be retained, but don’t roll your eyes at a fan base that is starving for some semblance of strength. A big hit, intimidation, a fight, protection for Dhalin and Cozens... who knows, he may look attractive to them at $4mil especially if they have trouble signing players in the off-season. 
 

Essentially I’d try to do the reverse Phaneuf trade where we’d end up with the best player in the trade, but for a group of good players that fill Buffalo’s position of need. I would keep the Mony + Johnny offer in my pocket until I can’t materialize a trade any other way, and this is assuming BT knows Gaudreau won’t re-sign here. I might even throw Bennett in there and Janko too just to reduce our own salary cap (remember, Buffalo needs players to ice a team next season!), but either way I’d also be taking a run at Petrangelo and Hall as well.

 

Kevyn Adams is the huge unknown and that's what makes BUF so interesting.  Does he buy into the new age hockey thinking "small, fast, skilled, etc" so he may covet small players like Gaudreau, Mangiapane, and Dube?

 

Or since he was a 3rd line grinder his entire NHL career, does he want to build a team of hard working players?  In which case, he will have big interest in Bennett and Backlund?

 

Does Adams want to begin his rebuild from the back end out?  So maybe he will upgrade G and add Dmen first.  I'm which case, he would be interested in Hanifin, Valimaki, and Kylington.

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40 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think Buffalo would have interest in Monahan. BT can play off the fact that both Eichel and Monahan have career highs of 82 points, but Monahan is 37% cheaper.  I think you need an offer that includes significant help now and significant futures. BT would have to make a Godfather offer. My proposal seems incredibly steep, but Eichel would be one of the best to ever play for the Flames.

 

Mine would be

Monahan

Hanifin

Valimaki

Dube

2020 1st

2021 1st

2022 2nd

 

 

If Eichel doesn't demand a trade then ya, that's what it will take.  And that's when we should stop and turn around.  Not giving essentially 5 first round picks for Eichel.

 

Eichel is not Crosby, McDavid, or Gretzky.  He's more in the level of Stamkos, Getzlaf, Thornton, etc.

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10 hours ago, lou44291 said:

 

 

- Buffalo will be interested in players already under contract, so they have them under their control.
- Buffalo will be even more interested in acquiring players with team-friendly (read: low dollar value) contracts, so that they maximize their bottom line.

- Buffalo will be interested in players that can create a buzz for fans (players that have a quality or identity that’s been lacking on the team)

- Buffalo will be interested in trading the future for the now

- Buffalo only has a few valuable assets to acquire any of the above. 

  • Trading 6 more years for 2 + 3  isn't a good control move
  • Team friendly now.  They gave Skinner 9 when his best seasons are in line with Johnny's worst, so they are probably going to need to turn around and trade him after year 1 or pay Johnny in the 11 range
  • I don't know Buffalo fans, outside of that they may be the most depressed sports city in North America.  I think you should check with them if they like this idea.  Also for marketing purposes Johnny and Monahan aren't exactly beaming with personality.  I think at this point no off-ice moves will create a positive buzz around this team, it will take an x beside their name in the standings.  Like Calgary in '03 - '04, no buzz around town for most of the year then that x goes up and everyone is a diehard Flames fan.
  • Trading Eichel for Gaudreau and Monahan doesn't drastically improve them in the now, I mean all the talk the last 2 years how the Flames can't win with them.  Why does a much worse Sabres team in a way more competitive division fare better with them?
  • True, but if trading Eichel was a must it would be better to push the reset than try this way.

 

44 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think Buffalo would have interest in Monahan. BT can play off the fact that both Eichel and Monahan have career highs of 82 points, but Monahan is 37% cheaper.  I think you need an offer that includes significant help now and significant futures. BT would have to make a Godfather offer. My proposal seems incredibly steep, but Eichel would be one of the best to ever play for the Flames.

 

Mine would be

Monahan

Hanifin

Valimaki

Dube

2020 1st

2021 1st

2022 2nd

 

That is definitely a lot, what would our expectation if we got Eichel?  Realistically, we probably need to move him before he goes UFA, yes that is 6 years down the road but seems like a lot of futures.  I don't know if it pushes us over, what would our defense look like in 3 years or 5?  If we were to get Eichel, I'd be more in the camp of keeping Hanifin around just due to their relationship, maybe help him fit in.  I don't know if it pushes us over, what would our defense look like in 3 years, I'd think we'd be relying on being active in UFA which is something we can't rely on because no matter how good the team is the market is still more undesirable than most, and its not wise for cap purposes.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, sak22 said:
  • Trading 6 more years for 2 + 3  isn't a good control move
  • Team friendly now.  They gave Skinner 9 when his best seasons are in line with Johnny's worst, so they are probably going to need to turn around and trade him after year 1 or pay Johnny in the 11 range
  • I don't know Buffalo fans, outside of that they may be the most depressed sports city in North America.  I think you should check with them if they like this idea.  Also for marketing purposes Johnny and Monahan aren't exactly beaming with personality.  I think at this point no off-ice moves will create a positive buzz around this team, it will take an x beside their name in the standings.  Like Calgary in '03 - '04, no buzz around town for most of the year then that x goes up and everyone is a diehard Flames fan.
  • Trading Eichel for Gaudreau and Monahan doesn't drastically improve them in the now, I mean all the talk the last 2 years how the Flames can't win with them.  Why does a much worse Sabres team in a way more competitive division fare better with them?
  • True, but if trading Eichel was a must it would be better to push the reset than try this way.

 

That is definitely a lot, what would our expectation if we got Eichel?  Realistically, we probably need to move him before he goes UFA, yes that is 6 years down the road but seems like a lot of futures.  I don't know if it pushes us over, what would our defense look like in 3 years or 5?  If we were to get Eichel, I'd be more in the camp of keeping Hanifin around just due to their relationship, maybe help him fit in.  I don't know if it pushes us over, what would our defense look like in 3 years, I'd think we'd be relying on being active in UFA which is something we can't rely on because no matter how good the team is the market is still more undesirable than most, and its not wise for cap purposes.

 

 

Not sure, the purpose of that proposal was to illustrate how insane the cost for Eichel would be. It would give you a great top 6 for the next 2 seasons, but the blueline would be very concerning.

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31 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Not sure, the purpose of that proposal was to illustrate how insane the cost for Eichel would be. It would give you a great top 6 for the next 2 seasons, but the blueline would be very concerning.

We would be Edmonton Jr.

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I get it's just for fun and debate but that package for eichel is way out there. No GM in their right mind would ever make that offer and anyone who did should be fired on the spot. 

 

No player is worth that much nor is 1 player worth gutting your franchise over. 

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19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I get it's just for fun and debate but that package for eichel is way out there. No GM in their right mind would ever make that offer and anyone who did should be fired on the spot. 

 

No player is worth that much nor is 1 player worth gutting your franchise over. 

 

I've said many times before.  If Eichel doesn't demand a trade, then forget about it.

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33 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I get it's just for fun and debate but that package for eichel is way out there. No GM in their right mind would ever make that offer and anyone who did should be fired on the spot. 

 

No player is worth that much nor is 1 player worth gutting your franchise over. 

Of course BT would never offer that, it's more to illustrate that it would take Dube's and Valimaki's rather than Bennett's and Jankowski's to get Buffalo interested

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I get it's just for fun and debate but that package for eichel is way out there. No GM in their right mind would ever make that offer and anyone who did should be fired on the spot. 

 

No player is worth that much nor is 1 player worth gutting your franchise over. 

 

That is the case with 99% of the players that could be available.

I don't know if it would even be worth it for McD.

You would be EDM in the year 1 of McD.

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Of course BT would never offer that, it's more to illustrate that it would take Dube's and Valimaki's rather than Bennett's and Jankowski's to get Buffalo interested

Definitely, people need to stop throwing the Bennett + Jankowski + Pick will = All-Star player return.  Both players have low value on their own, combining them does nothing, maybe even makes it worse because its 2 contracts over $1.5 million, and despite playing together for the better part of the last 3 seasons they do not show great chemistry.

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13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That is the case with 99% of the players that could be available.

I don't know if it would even be worth it for McD.

You would be EDM in the year 1 of McD.

 

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I get it's just for fun and debate but that package for eichel is way out there. No GM in their right mind would ever make that offer and anyone who did should be fired on the spot. 

 

No player is worth that much nor is 1 player worth gutting your franchise over. 

 

 

I agree that it's not a good idea to give so much up! 
I feel like it would take something similar to Brew's suggestion to get it done with Buffalo though. I know he's not Lindros and maybe the Lindros deal really opens eyes on that type of deal, could the Flyers have been a cup team had they not gone for Lindros? Although I think Eichel would fetch something around the Duchene deal from the Avs, I think they could get a pinch more than the AVS got? Maybe? 

 

I think our players have mixed reviews across the league. Some people think they are worth more and others don't think they're worth nearly as much. Brew's deal also doesn't render the Flames super bottom feeders even if you had to add Gaudreau or a Lindholm to the deal, especially if they could sign either Hall and/or Petriangelo. I just think it would take a lot.

 

If you made Brew's deal alone:

 

Eichel, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Backlund, Mangiapane, Bennett, Ryan, Jankowski, Lucic, Rieder? Who would be ready to make a jump to the Bigs next season if anyone?

Add Hall if we signed him.

 

Even if you had to include Gaudreau or Lindholm in a deal, you still have a fairly deep competitive roster. I almost feel like the Flames could be one of the most competitive offers for an Eichel deal if that opportunity ever presents itself this year. I think you could still fill some holes within, but signing a RW would help.

 

I really feel that Bennett started using his linemates as a C in his short stint this year. I think he has developed sharing with others into his game but he slowed as a C after around the 4th game he played and they took him off of the position. It took 5 years but, I feel he took a step in that direction. If you put him with a star like Hall and a two-way point producer like Lindholm, I think he could take a step. 

 

If you did that deal, I'd try Tkachuk on the RW to play on the First line. I think he could make that line top in the NHL. I think Lindholm probably sticks at RW, but I'd like him or Bennett to take on a C role. It's time to stick with something for Bennett or trade him. I get the idea of, how can you push him up the lineup over Mangiapane, but I just don't see these as promotions or demotions, unless being put on the 4th line. The top3 lines get most of the playing time and we NEED depth scoring. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Of course BT would never offer that, it's more to illustrate that it would take Dube's and Valimaki's rather than Bennett's and Jankowski's to get Buffalo interested

 

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53 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Definitely, people need to stop throwing the Bennett + Jankowski + Pick will = All-Star player return.  Both players have low value on their own, combining them does nothing, maybe even makes it worse because its 2 contracts over $1.5 million, and despite playing together for the better part of the last 3 seasons they do not show great chemistry.

 

 

I wonder what they would be like if their roles were reversed? Jankowski as a LW and Bennett as the C. 

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41 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I wonder what they would be like if their roles were reversed? Jankowski as a LW and Bennett as the C. 

 

I wonder what Bennett would be like if he looked at game tapes with a coach and deconstruct what he does versus a successful player.

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2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wonder what Bennett would be like if he looked at game tapes with a coach and deconstruct what he does versus a successful player.

 

I wonder if they'd just keep him in one position for a whole season. Personally, I think it's time to deal him. Get whatever you can for him and let him develop on a team willing to put the time in. He may never turn out more than a 3rd or 4th liner... But I think he needs a fresh start with a lack of bias to his game by coaches.

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15 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Personally, I think it's time to deal him. Get whatever you can for him 

 

It's too late for that bro.  Bennett won't get a 3rd round pick even because he's overpaid for what he brings.  5th year in NHL and a career 25-point guy.  He's turning 24.

 

Not saying he's Yakupov where no one wanted him on waivers for free.  But I think we get a 4th rounder at best.  Just keep him.

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Again, not big on Andersson, but I’d do it if NYR has any interest in Kylington.

 

Kylington would be one of the better LHD NYR has. Smith and Staal are anchors. Lindgren is a good player. Hajek isn’t much more than an AHLer

 

Stick Andersson in the middle between Dube and Mang, he will look like a high pick again 

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5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I've said many times before.  If Eichel doesn't demand a trade, then forget about it.

 

Agreed because Buffalo won't deal him unless he demands a trade but you'd get their attention by offering a lot less than that though that's all i'm saying. Value is way off but like i said i get it's just a discussion point. 

 

Some Buffalo content for Friedman today, but long story short it's a mess over there.....

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-breaking-major-nhl-awards-races/

 

 

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's too late for that bro.  Bennett won't get a 3rd round pick even because he's overpaid for what he brings.  5th year in NHL and a career 25-point guy.  He's turning 24.

 

Not saying he's Yakupov where no one wanted him on waivers for free.  But I think we get a 4th rounder at best.  Just keep him.

 

I think he's turning into Brouwer 2.0

His cost outweighs him impact to the game.

Not saying he couldn't get better, but how is going to unless he re-invents himself as more than a lesser role player.

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Agreed because Buffalo won't deal him unless he demands a trade but you'd get their attention by offering a lot less than that though that's all i'm saying. Value is way off but like i said i get it's just a discussion point. 

 

Some Buffalo content for Friedman today, but long story short it's a mess over there.....

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-breaking-major-nhl-awards-races/

 

Despite what the owners say, this is an organizational rebuild from the top down.  All eyes are on Eichel but like Friedman said, what about the 21-year-old 2nd liner on Rochester who is turning RFA?  Sign him or not?  Let him go?  Everyone who worked with the kid is gone so who do you trust on that end of things.  This could be damaging to the depth of the team as good prospects slip through the cracks.

 

Maybe the way to go is not to target Eichel but those kids on the farm who the new crew coming in won't be familiar with. 

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Unless Flyer ownership wants it to happen, I don't think Philly is that great of a trade partner for Gaudreau. 

 

Long term the Flyers may have a tough time making it work, especially with most likely a flat cap for at least a year, if not 2

Hart has 1 year left. He's the man for them, they will look at a 4-5 year deal worth significant money

Sanheim has 1 year left. If he doesn't double his salary of 3.25, it will be close.

 

In 2 years when Gaudreau is up

Couturier, he will almost double his salary of 4.3. If not he will earn more than Hayes and his 7.1

Giroux, he will be 35 but still productive. If he remains a Flyer, it would be in the 6.2-7 range like the Pavelski and Marleau deals

 

Flyers also have two big money deals in JVR and Voracek. That's 15.25 tied up right there. 

 

Ghost will be tough for them to move without taking on similar money

 

 

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think he's turning into Brouwer 2.0

His cost outweighs him impact to the game.

Not saying he couldn't get better, but how is going to unless he re-invents himself as more than a lesser role player.

 

Bennett has some tools like speed and grit but the smarts just aren't there.  I don't even know what he can become at this point... i mean beyond a 4th line energy guy.

 

One of the greatest transformational stories in the NHL was Daniel Cleary who got exceptional status to play in the CHL as a 15-year-old (i remember only the 4th player in CHL history at the time after the likes of Gretzky and Orr or something crazy).  He was so good at 15.  He was then drafted into the NHL 13th overall... and then nothing.  He was a complete bust for 6 or 7 years in the NHL and was a journeyman.  Finally, the Red Wings picked him up and Babcock gave him a role.  Clearly just focused on grinding and made a great career out of it.  Arguably one of the best grinders during his prime helping the Red Wings win a Cup.  Can this be Sam Bennett's story?  

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17 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Unless Flyer ownership wants it to happen, I don't think Philly is that great of a trade partner for Gaudreau. 

 

Long term the Flyers may have a tough time making it work

Hart has 1 year left. He's the man for them, they will look at a 4-5 year deal worth significant money

Sanheim has 1 year left. If he doesn't double his salary of 3.25, it will be close.

 

In 2 years when Gaudreau is up

Couturier, he will almost double his salary of 4.3. If not he will earn more than Hayes and his 7.1

Giroux, he will be 35 but still productive. If he remains a Flyer, it would be in the 6.2-7 range like the Pavelski and Marleau deals

 

Flyers also have two big money deals in JVR and Voracek. That's 15.25 tied up right there. 

 

Then it must also be true, the Flyers cannot sign Gaudreau as a UFA in the summer of 2022.

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9 hours ago, sak22 said:
  • Trading 6 more years for 2 + 3  isn't a good control move
  • Monahan and Gaudreau are 2/3 of a top line. They bridge a gap for their younger players to develop. Buffalo also has to sign half a roster for next season. The trade could be the above, Monahan plus plus, Monahan Gaudreau plus, or any combination of 2 players / 3 players / 4 players. That fills holes on Buffalo’s roster that they may have difificulty filling on their own.  
  • Team friendly now.  They gave Skinner 9 when his best seasons are in line with Johnny's worst, so they are probably going to need to turn around and trade him after year 1 or pay Johnny in the 11 range
    Yep. Foolish move with Skinner but I heard the Pegulas forced Botteril to accept that deal against his will. Johnny may cost them $11 in 2 years, but who are they going to lure in free agency and what’s it going to cost them this off season to get them to consider Buffalo as a destination?
  • I don't know Buffalo fans, outside of that they may be the most depressed sports city in North America.  I think you should check with them if they like this idea.  Also for marketing purposes Johnny and Monahan aren't exactly beaming with personality.  I think at this point no off-ice moves will create a positive buzz around this team, it will take an x beside their name in the standings.  Like Calgary in '03 - '04, no buzz around town for most of the year then that x goes up and everyone is a diehard Flames fan.
  • Fans are fickle. Some will hate the trade, some will find excitement in seeing something new for their team instead of the same old. 
  • Trading Eichel for Gaudreau and Monahan doesn't drastically improve them in the now, I mean all the talk the last 2 years how the Flames can't win with them.  Why does a much worse Sabres team in a way more competitive division fare better with them?
    How have they fared with just Eichel? Having 2/3 of a top line with a history of producing almost double the points of Eichel should potentially improve their win column. That said, the East plays different hockey than the west, and I’d say Johnny and Mony would produce better if the majority of their season was played in the East. 
  • True, but if trading Eichel was a must it would be better to push the reset than try this way.
    I thought Buffalo did just push the reset button. I wonder how Eichel is feeling about that. 

 

 

☺️

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38 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Then it must also be true, the Flyers cannot sign Gaudreau as a UFA in the summer of 2022.

I don’t see it being as natural a fit as it looks from the outside. 
 

Maybe he would stay at 6.75 to make it work.

 

 

For a trade, maybe PHI would send the Flames Konecny to make it work. It seems like a long shot, but their ownership wants to win. They fired Hextall for being too patient 

Their top 6

Gaudreau-Hayes-Giroux

Farabee/JVR-Couturier-Voracek

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