Jump to content
The Official Site of the Calgary Flames
Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Wouldn't that be tampering? If it were the Flames and they were caught, they'd probably lose some draft picks and get fined for doing it. 

 

what I was referring to was after Hall was traded to Arizona and reports came out the flames were in on the negotiations and upset as they felt they made the better offer. That would not be tampering. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

An aside, I found this fun video by a Sabres fan that asked armchair GMs what they'd offer for Eichel... 

 

 

Love. 

Ya I’ve watched a few of her videos. She’s a good listen 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we sign Hall, then what about trading Tkachuk instead?

 

Could we send Tkachuk to OTT for their two top picks?  Pre-lottery, OTT has the 2nd and 3rd overall.  Would OTT do it to unite the Tkachuk brothers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

If we sign Hall, then what about trading Tkachuk instead?

 

Could we send Tkachuk to OTT for their two top picks?  Pre-lottery, OTT has the 2nd and 3rd overall.  Would OTT do it to unite the Tkachuk brothers?

I think we may need to consider trading Tkachuk if they can't negotiate an extension after the next season (whenever that may be) because he could easily take a very good QO after year 3 and be gone after that year.  But I don't know if I do that trade at draft, I still think Tkachuk brings qualities we don't get from too many others and won't get out of Hall either.  But it could be the best return possible if one of the picks was offered, if they wound up with 2 and 3 and offered both then its a no brainer for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thing to consider with Gaudreau is the last year of his deal has a modified NTC. He submits a 5 team list which is pretty restrictive and a process that needs to be avoided if you are going to trade him as it will potentially limit the return. 
 

im a broken record on this but this is the offseason to make the decision if you want him here long term or not and I’m in the camp that you don’t. Flames should be shopping him Imo. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Another thing to consider with Gaudreau is the last year of his deal has a modified NTC. He submits a 5 team list which is pretty restrictive and a process that needs to be avoided if you are going to trade him as it will potentially limit the return. 
 

im a broken record on this but this is the offseason to make the decision if you want him here long term or not and for I don’t. Flames should be shopping him Imo. 

 

I hate to be that guy, but the only way they shop him this summer is if the Flames do not do well on the playoffs.

That and the relative offers they receive.

If they don't do well, changes are coming for certain.

Gaudreau and Gio are the best chips they have that realistically they can live without.

Both are possible causes for the team not improving.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Another thing to consider with Gaudreau is the last year of his deal has a modified NTC. He submits a 5 team list which is pretty restrictive and a process that needs to be avoided if you are going to trade him as it will potentially limit the return. 
 

im a broken record on this but this is the offseason to make the decision if you want him here long term or not and for I don’t. Flames should be shopping him Imo. 

 

Also, it's rare someone like Hall is from Calgary and would consider Calgary one of his top destinations. This off season would be a great opportunity to move Gaudreau for help elsewhere and immediately bring back a 75-point LW to replace Gaudreau.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For Gaudreau,

 

Sabres

Check in on Eichel of course but don't forget about Dahlin.  Eichel is nearly untouchable because it sounds like he has a hot line directly to the Pegulas and so the Pegulas see Eichel as the core of the core.  But, no one has said Dahlin has this hot line.

 

Panthers

Check in on Barkov or even Huberdeau.  They traded Trocheck and have been vocal that they're not happy with their team... they in a worse situation than the Flames in terms of where they think they should be.  Barkov and Huberdeau may be more available than we think.  Hoffman and Dadanov are pending UFA so the Panthers are in for big changes this summer.

 

Hurricanes

Ask about Aho.  The Canes didn't want to give him big money last summer and Aho signed a contract with Montreal.  The Canes weren't allowed to trade him right away.  They had to wait one year.  And it's one year now.

 

Coyotes

This one is a bit risky but I remember Conroy pumping Clayton Keller pre-draft in 2016.  Had the Canucks drafted Tkachuk, i feel the Flames would've taken Keller (or Joulevi).  He's risky because he's extended 8-years at $7.15-mil-per and he bombed statistically this season.  Only 44-points and demoted as soon as the Coyotes acquired Hall.  The Coyotes are cash/cap sensitive so they cannot afford to be stuck with someone like Keller producing sub-50s.  If our organization still likes Keller, then this is the best chance.  He has the skills to get back to 65 to 70-point range next season and beyond.

 

Devils

Similar to Keller, Nico Hischier extended for $7.25-mil-per x 7-years but only put up 36-points.  NJ is a team Gaudreau would gladly extend long term to stay in because of family so that helps NJ make the argument.  A Hughes-Gaudreau combo for the next 10-years could be enticing.  Plus, NJ has 3 picks in the top 17 to replace Hischier who isn't living up to #1 overall expectations.  This is a chance for the Devils to cut Hischier loose before big money kicks in and acquire an elite LW who would be willing to stay long term.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never thought of Arizona as a fit. Chayka has shown to never fear making a big move.

 

Keller is interesting, very skilled. His numbers would improve if he played on a team that can score. 
 

 

I guess it comes down to whether or not the Flames want another smaller skilled player, that may get pushed around when the games get hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder though, how much of the Flames offence goes through Gaudreau? 
 

even Tkachuk and Lindholm were sporadic in offence when they played together. How many points does Tkachuk score in the Pp? Etc. 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I wonder though, how much of the Flames offence goes through Gaudreau? 
 

even Tkachuk and Lindholm were sporadic in offence when they played together. How many points does Tkachuk score in the Pp? Etc. 
 

 

 

There's the crux of the problem.

He is responsible for 90% of the top line's offense.

Unless you sign a big name to replace him, a guy like Hischier would only provide a replacement (someday) for Backlund.

He would drastically improve the 3rd line, though.

 

I don't worry about the PP, since I think it was not run great this year.

Otherwise let's just throw out this year's stats as an outlier.

 

Trading Gaudreau has to be seen as losing at least one key piece.

You need replacement value now and in the future to make it worthwhile.

I'll go back to a previous trade suggestion and modify it a bit.

Gaudreau + Hanifin + 1st

for 

Hischier + Merkley + Severson + 2021 1st.

 

Why this makes sense for NJ:

They gain a player that is young enough to be part of the core for many years.

He would easily sign an extension and they have the money to do it.

Hanifin provides them a young D-man that could exceed expectations, but is still okay overall.

The 1st provides them many options in a deep first round.

It's a steep cost but they get two foundation players.

 

Why this makes sense for the Flames:

Two reasons.

Young D-man and young players to span the current core and new core.

This lestens the need to pay big bucks to Pietrangelo.

If you sign him, you have 3 top 4 RHS D-men.

You could then look to move a RD for a LD, which would be better value.

They still pick up a 2021 1st, so they have youth plus a future pair of 1sts.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I never thought of Arizona as a fit. Chayka has shown to never fear making a big move.

 

Keller is interesting, very skilled. His numbers would improve if he played on a team that can score. 
 

 

I guess it comes down to whether or not the Flames want another smaller skilled player, that may get pushed around when the games get hard.

 

I wonder if Chayka is sweating a little bit because he committed long term to Keller... At the time was thought to be a brilliant signing because of inflating salaries and Keller trending in the right direction.

 

But if Keller is stuck as a 50-point guy, then that's an overpayment at $7.15 x 8-years.  Keller would do better on the Flames with more offensive players and offensive system to work with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I wonder if Chayka is sweating a little bit because he committed long term to Keller... At the time was thought to be a brilliant signing because of inflating salaries and Keller trending in the right direction.

 

But if Keller is stuck as a 50-point guy, then that's an overpayment at $7.15 x 8-years.  Keller would do better on the Flames with more offensive players and offensive system to work with.

 

Agreed.

Actually having watched a fair bit of both Keller and Hischier, they are both far more dynamic offensively than their numbers would suggest.

 

I'd be happy with either++ for Gaudreau as I feel both are in a bad situation for their style of play. I actually see Hischier as a potential 1st line center that has 2-way ability while putting up 60-70 points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t see NJ making Hischier available. They are so light on centres, Zajac is a bottom 6C at the moment, Zacha is a 3rd line C. Not to mention I don’t think Gaudreau signs with NJ.

 

I know his hometown is listed as NJ, but he is minutes away from PHI. Newark, home of the Devils is actually a 3hr drive from his hometown. Essentially like a kid from CGY going to play in EDM.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heischer I would be all over but I also can’t see the Devils making him available. I think they want to build a 1-2 punch of him and Hughes down the middle, which makes perfect sense to me. What I would do. 
 

I’m pretty lukewarm on Keller. I do think he’s a good player but personally I think you saw his peak. I don’t think he’s a top line winger nor do I think he’s an nhl center so you wind up with a pretty expensive player for what he brings. 
 

it will come with some risk but I think part of the rationale for dealing Gaudreau to you aim for upside in the return. I think the flames need to targets centers in return and as high as an upside center as they can get. Acquiring someone like Keller keeps them spinning their wheels imo as I don’t believe he moves the needle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don’t see NJ making Hischier available. They are so light on centres, Zajac is a bottom 6C at the moment, Zacha is a 3rd line C. Not to mention I don’t think Gaudreau signs with NJ.

 

I know his hometown is listed as NJ, but he is minutes away from PHI. Newark, home of the Devils is actually a 3hr drive from his hometown. Essentially like a kid from CGY going to play in EDM.

 

Could be.  Likely, none of these guys I mentioned are available but I'm just saying, just ask.  Just check in with their GM.

 

For Hischier, I'm coming from the angle NJ is light on everything and Hischier producing sub-40s might be worrisome for his cap hit.  Also NJ lost Hall on LW and haven't been able to replace him.  Hischier's production has been going down since Hall's MVP seas and subsequent trade.  Centers still need wingers to put up points.  Jack Hughes has higher offensive upside and has no one to play with.

 

It would take someone very good and still relatively young to convince NJ to even think about it.  Gaudreau fits this bill.  Biggest negative for Gaudreau is contract certainty but again, if the concerns with Gaudreau is he wants to play close(r) to home and his dad lives in NJ, then NJ must be one of his top UFA destinations.  Plus, PHI might be capped out that same summer.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Heischer I would be all over but I also can’t see the Devils making him available. I think they want to build a 1-2 punch of him and Hughes down the middle, which makes perfect sense to me. What I would do. 
 

I’m pretty lukewarm on Keller. I do think he’s a good player but personally I think you saw his peak. I don’t think he’s a top line winger nor do I think he’s an nhl center so you wind up with a pretty expensive player for what he brings. 
 

it will come with some risk but I think part of the rationale for dealing Gaudreau to you aim for upside in the return. I think the flames need to targets centers in return and as high as an upside center as they can get. Acquiring someone like Keller keeps them spinning their wheels imo as I don’t believe he moves the needle. 

 

Well right now they draft #6.  Picking someone like Cole Perfetti or Marco Rossi could change the availability of Hischier.  I know, it depends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Could be.  Likely, none of these guys I mentioned are available but I'm just saying, just ask.  Just check in with their GM.

 

For Hischier, I'm coming from the angle NJ is light on everything and Hischier producing sub-40s might be worrisome for his cap hit.  Also NJ lost Hall on LW and haven't been able to replace him.  Hischier's production has been going down since Hall's MVP seas and subsequent trade.  Centers still need wingers to put up points.  Jack Hughes has higher offensive upside and has no one to play with.

 

It would take someone very good and still relatively young to convince NJ to even think about it.  Gaudreau fits this bill.  Biggest negative for Gaudreau is contract certainty but again, if the concerns with Gaudreau is he wants to play close(r) to home and his dad lives in NJ, then NJ must be one of his top UFA destinations.  Plus, PHI might be capped out that same summer.  

 

I'm in the same boat in my assumptions.

NJ is rebuilding and has tried a few times.

They are not going to do so in the next few years unless they swing for the fences.

Nobody is giving them a Gaudreau level player for a meh defenseman.

They will need to dig deep.

Hard to move forwatd unless the elite players you have and are coming don't have that elite playmaker.

 

Playing in Jersey is an hour drive from Cherry Hill.

Pretty close for family to go watch.

Maybe not commute time, but he could easily buy a condo or just stay in hotels.

I suspect he doesn't do a lot of cooking as it is, so hotels is not a bad substitute.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think NJ needs to see what happens in the lotto, if they were to consider moving Hischier

 

If they pick 6th, there's really no clear-cut NHL C, on the board.

 

Rossi has to overcome his size. There aren't many top 6 C at 5'9". I really like Rossi, but I could see him being a winger, he has a similar body type to Marchand.

Perfetti has to overcome skating. He's not a bad skater, he just doesn't have a top gear. Saginaw lists him as an LW.

Stutzle has as good a chance as Byfield, but either requires NJ to win the lotto.

 

I'm still unsure of where they see Jack Hughes too, is he a C or wing? 36% in the circle as a rookie. 

 

New Jersey is a bad team with a bad farm system.

 

Some pieces they could send to the Flames are, this isn't a proposal, just a list

ARI 2020 1st

Jesper Bratt

Jesper Boqvist

Ty Smith

Miles Wood

Pavel Zacha

 

Ty Smith is their best prospect by far, although I'm not sure they'd move him as he would probably be an NHL regular for them and they need help on the backend

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm in the same boat in my assumptions.

NJ is rebuilding and has tried a few times.

They are not going to do so in the next few years unless they swing for the fences.

Nobody is giving them a Gaudreau level player for a meh defenseman.

They will need to dig deep.

Hard to move forwatd unless the elite players you have and are coming don't have that elite playmaker.

 

Playing in Jersey is an hour drive from Cherry Hill.

Pretty close for family to go watch.

Maybe not commute time, but he could easily buy a condo or just stay in hotels.

I suspect he doesn't do a lot of cooking as it is, so hotels is not a bad substitute.

 

 

16 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think NJ needs to see what happens in the lotto, if they were to consider moving Hischier

 

If they pick 6th, there's really no clear-cut NHL C, on the board.

 

Rossi has to overcome his size. There aren't many top 6 C at 5'9". I really like Rossi, but I could see him being a winger, he has a similar body type to Marchand.

Perfetti has to overcome skating. He's not a bad skater, he just doesn't have a top gear. Saginaw lists him as an LW.

Stutzle has as good a chance as Byfield, but either requires NJ to win the lotto.

 

I'm still unsure of where they see Jack Hughes too, is he a C or wing? 36% in the circle as a rookie. 

 

It's fair to say it depends on the draft lotto.

 

Byfield and Stutzle could instantly make Hischier available.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

It's fair to say it depends on the draft lotto.

 

Byfield and Stutzle could instantly make Hischier available.  

 

The lotto can do nothing to change NJ's picking order or change it higher or lower.

NJ has the lotto chances for 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Add to that they have the opportunity to trade for a higher pick with a 2nd first rounder.

ARI's pick will only remain with ARI if the lotto balls drop it to top 3.

At worst it's around 10th overall.

If the Nucks win the first round, it's an additional 16th or worse.

 

This has to be one of the weirdest drafts in NHL history.

Not just due to format, but with the number of 1st dealt and the conditions around them.

A team could wind up winning 2nd overall and get passed by a team that was in the play-in series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

The lotto can do nothing to change NJ's picking order or change it higher or lower.

NJ has the lotto chances for 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Add to that they have the opportunity to trade for a higher pick with a 2nd first rounder.

ARI's pick will only remain with ARI if the lotto balls drop it to top 3.

At worst it's around 10th overall.

If the Nucks win the first round, it's an additional 16th or worse.

 

This has to be one of the weirdest drafts in NHL history.

Not just due to format, but with the number of 1st dealt and the conditions around them.

A team could wind up winning 2nd overall and get passed by a team that was in the play-in series.

 

Ya, I mean if NJ wins into top 2/3 then they could land someone like Byfield who projects as a top line C.  They could consider trading Hischier in that case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think NJ needs to see what happens in the lotto, if they were to consider moving Hischier

 

If they pick 6th, there's really no clear-cut NHL C, on the board.

 

Rossi has to overcome his size. There aren't many top 6 C at 5'9". I really like Rossi, but I could see him being a winger, he has a similar body type to Marchand.

Perfetti has to overcome skating. He's not a bad skater, he just doesn't have a top gear. Saginaw lists him as an LW.

Stutzle has as good a chance as Byfield, but either requires NJ to win the lotto.

 

I'm still unsure of where they see Jack Hughes too, is he a C or wing? 36% in the circle as a rookie. 

 

New Jersey is a bad team with a bad farm system.

 

Some pieces they could send to the Flames are, this isn't a proposal, just a list

ARI 2020 1st

Jesper Bratt

Jesper Boqvist

Ty Smith

Miles Wood

Pavel Zacha

 

Ty Smith is their best prospect by far, although I'm not sure they'd move him as he would probably be an NHL regular for them and they need help on the backend

 

 

 

You nailed why i'm not really a fan of the Gaudreau to jersey rumors or suggestions. It's just an ugly team to trade with unless you can get Hughes, Heischer or Severson and I don't see what they would move them. That or they give up 2 of their top 10 picks then I would listen but if you are after players or prospects, it's ugly. 

 

While I understand the argument of well they can pick Byfield ot Stutzle and then trade Heischer I would not agree with it nor do I think that is smart. I'd keep them all because worst case, Byfield/Stutzle don't pan out or best case they do and you'd still have the option of moving Hughes or Heischer to wing. That's the better strategy IMO and giving up on that strategy to get 2 year of affordable Gaudreau and then needed a big extension (or again worst case he doesn't like it there and walks) makes little sense to me. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya, I mean if NJ wins into top 2/3 then they could land someone like Byfield who projects as a top line C.  They could consider trading Hischier in that case.

 

The top 3 is about the only thing that is set in stone.

NJ will be picking at worst a Perfetti, Rossi, Raymond or Holtz depending on how they view the players. 

Two of those could easily be valued higher than Hischier.

I mean, you lose a 40 point guy today for a 70-100 point guy, plus add a potential 40 point in year 1 player.

 

I get the counter argument, but we are also talking about a business that needs to make money.

Building through the draft has not helped them take another step.

Losing Hall was a big blow to the team's ability to compete.

Can they stand to wait another 2-5 year to become relevant?

Gaudreau at least moves them closer to a mid-tier team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The top 3 is about the only thing that is set in stone.

 

What do you mean set in stone?  NJ cannot move into top 3?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...