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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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55 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

You nailed why i'm not really a fan of the Gaudreau to jersey rumors or suggestions. It's just an ugly team to trade with unless you can get Hughes, Heischer or Severson and I don't see what they would move them. That or they give up 2 of their top 10 picks then I would listen but if you are after players or prospects, it's ugly. 

 

While I understand the argument of well they can pick Byfield ot Stutzle and then trade Heischer I would not agree with it nor do I think that is smart. I'd keep them all because worst case, Byfield/Stutzle don't pan out or best case they do and you'd still have the option of moving Hughes or Heischer to wing. That's the better strategy IMO and giving up on that strategy to get 2 year of affordable Gaudreau and then needed a big extension (or again worst case he doesn't like it there and walks) makes little sense to me. 

 

One other bad scenario to consider is Hischier is a 40-point guy at $7.25-mil-per.  Given a lack of wingers to play with, it's very likely.  In two years, they'd be lucky to get a player half of Gaudreau's talent if they want to trade Hischier at that time.

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53 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

What do you mean set in stone?  NJ cannot move into top 3?

I mean the top 3 players is about the only thing consensus.

NJ could pick 1,2 or 3.

At worst, they still get a really good prospect, hence my argument for trading Hischier is not lotto related.

 

Comparing like for like, Hischier was a 86 point player in the Q when drafted.  The Q.  

Some of the lesser picks this year are ranging in the 100+ points level.

You can't always just look at that, but my guess is there are more than a few NHL ready players.

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I like Hischier, but I wouldn't trade Johnny for him (at least not straight across).  In his rookie year, he put up .63 ppg, then .68 ppg, and was on pace for .62 ppg this season.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of growth in his game from an offensive standpoint, and looks to be a really solid two-way center, a better version of Backlund.  His salary is a bit steep for that in my opinion, not outrageously so, but still.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I mean the top 3 players is about the only thing consensus.

NJ could pick 1,2 or 3.

At worst, they still get a really good prospect, hence my argument for trading Hischier is not lotto related.

 

Comparing like for like, Hischier was a 86 point player in the Q when drafted.  The Q.  

Some of the lesser picks this year are ranging in the 100+ points level.

You can't always just look at that, but my guess is there are more than a few NHL ready players.

 

Ah I see.  I get you now.

 

Yes, NJ gains a 99-point guy for a 40-point guy.  But it's up to NJ if they want to continue down that path with Hischier.  Obviously, NJ feels Hischier was able to carry a line all to himself and go point-per-game.  That's why they committed the big contract. 

 

I get the Hischier/Hughes 1/2 punch at C.  For me it's about a contract mistake and a chance for NJ to admit it and send him off.

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1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ah I see.  I get you now.

 

Yes, NJ gains a 99-point guy for a 40-point guy.  But it's up to NJ if they want to continue down that path with Hischier.  Obviously, NJ feels Hischier was able to carry a line all to himself and go point-per-game.  That's why they committed the big contract. 

 

I get the Hischier/Hughes 1/2 punch at C.  For me it's about a contract mistake and a chance for NJ to admit it and send him off.

 

I don't watch a lot of NJ, so I can't say one way or the other he is a great player.

But, he's 3 years with the team and hasn't taken any steps forward.

In fact, you could say he's taken a big step backwards, looking at just his points and +/-.

 

But the big thing with NJ is the lack of any kind of scoring punch.

Only two players in the 20's for goals (only Palmieri remains) and no player above 45 in points.

Asking the core to produce without major help is a lot to ask.

With Gaudreau, they instantly have a 20 goal and 60 point player at worst.

That adds at least 40 goals to the output.

They would be lucky to get that from adding two UFA's and paying more than Gaudreau each.

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I wonder if their is a chance to do another blockbuster with Carolina. Gaudreau going to Carolina and Calgary getting Necas in return, would be the basis of the deal. I could see it expanding and us possibly grabbing Bean. We would probably have to take on a cap hit as well. Maybe something like

 

To Carolina:

Gaudreau

Bennett

 

To Calgary:

Necas

Niederreiter

 

Maybe I am dreaming, Necas is really underrated and doesn't get talked about a lot, but he has top line talent.

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The top 3 is about the only thing that is set in stone.

NJ will be picking at worst a Perfetti, Rossi, Raymond or Holtz depending on how they view the players. 

Two of those could easily be valued higher than Hischier.

I mean, you lose a 40 point guy today for a 70-100 point guy, plus add a potential 40 point in year 1 player.

 

I get the counter argument, but we are also talking about a business that needs to make money.

Building through the draft has not helped them take another step.

Losing Hall was a big blow to the team's ability to compete.

Can they stand to wait another 2-5 year to become relevant?

Gaudreau at least moves them closer to a mid-tier team.

 

 

Gaudreau also gives them a, sort of, hometown hero.

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5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Gaudreau also gives them a, sort of, hometown hero.

 

No doubt it's a marketing coup.

The buzz around the player is high, even if us fans here don't get excited.

He does things every game that take you out of your seat.

It would be the steal of the century, regardless of the cost.

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18 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Gaudreau also gives them a, sort of, hometown hero.

Home state.  By that logic Jarome Iginla who was born in the Edmonton area and grew up an Oiler fan was a hometown hero when he came here.  Or Taylor Hall was a hometown guy when he went to Edmonton.  Neither were sold as hometown guys.   I'm not sure a guy who grew up 3 hours away and grew up most likely hating that team is a marketers dream.  Also nobody down there cares how entertaining a single player is, if the results aren't there why are people investing money or time.

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1 minute ago, sak22 said:

Home state.  By that logic Jarome Iginla who was born in the Edmonton area and grew up an Oiler fan was a hometown hero when he came here.  Or Taylor Hall was a hometown guy when he went to Edmonton.  Neither were sold as hometown guys.   I'm not sure a guy who grew up 3 hours away and grew up most likely hating that team is a marketers dream.  Also nobody down there cares how entertaining a single player is, if the results aren't there why are people investing money or time.

 

 

It might be changing a bit, but I think that Americans tend to covet just the fact that someone is American much like Montreal covets someone who speaks French. 

Someone posted that it was actually an hour and a half drive to where he grew up or lived. But still, a 3 hour drive is better than a 6 hour flight, including the drive to the airport, going through security, customs and all of that. 

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

One other bad scenario to consider is Hischier is a 40-point guy at $7.25-mil-per.  Given a lack of wingers to play with, it's very likely.  In two years, they'd be lucky to get a player half of Gaudreau's talent if they want to trade Hischier at that time.

 

While certainly in the realm of possibility i would consider it the least probable of all the scenarios I mentioned. Could be a difference of opinion on his game but I suspect with giving him a better winger to play with your going to see him get to the type of player I thikn he can be. Certainly lots there to suggest his numbers are more reflective of the team and less of his game. 

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4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

It might be changing a bit, but I think that Americans tend to covet just the fact that someone is American much like Montreal covets someone who speaks French. 

Someone posted that it was actually an hour and a half drive to where he grew up or lived. But still, a 3 hour drive is better than a 6 hour flight, including the drive to the airport, going through security, customs and all of that. 

I don't know if I agree with that, maybe in the non-traditional markets it would help with but in most US markets if you don't win, nobody cares.  The Blue Jays during their 20 year playoff drought always seemed to try and obtain good Canadian players, they would market them heavily, but attendance sucked until they won.  And I would say Canadians make a bigger deal about Canadian athletes in sports besides hockey than Americans do with their hockey players.

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55 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I wonder if their is a chance to do another blockbuster with Carolina. Gaudreau going to Carolina and Calgary getting Necas in return, would be the basis of the deal. I could see it expanding and us possibly grabbing Bean. We would probably have to take on a cap hit as well. Maybe something like

 

To Carolina:

Gaudreau

Bennett

 

To Calgary:

Necas

Niederreiter

 

Maybe I am dreaming, Necas is really underrated and doesn't get talked about a lot, but he has top line talent.

 

I haven't watched much of Necas but stats look good. I like he's RHS C/RW.  We need more of those.

 

By all accounts, the last trade was win/win for both teams so I think there's good business rapport between the Flames and Canes.  I think they wouldn't shy away from another big trade. 

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1 minute ago, sak22 said:

I don't know if I agree with that, maybe in the non-traditional markets it would help with but in most US markets if you don't win, nobody cares.  The Blue Jays during their 20 year playoff drought always seemed to try and obtain good Canadian players, they would market them heavily, but attendance sucked until they won.  And I would say Canadians make a bigger deal about Canadian athletes in sports besides hockey than Americans do with their hockey players.

 

Just because we don't hear it doesn't mean it's not there.

Americans are as patriotic as you can get.

They hate to lose and they hate to lose to Canada.

 

So, while there is nothing that says an American player is worth more, they love a winner and like to be able to brag that he would be an Olympian.

Being able to intro JH as a native NJ boy would be something.

It's a source of pride. 

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

I wonder if their is a chance to do another blockbuster with Carolina. Gaudreau going to Carolina and Calgary getting Necas in return, would be the basis of the deal. I could see it expanding and us possibly grabbing Bean. We would probably have to take on a cap hit as well. Maybe something like

 

To Carolina:

Gaudreau

Bennett

 

To Calgary:

Necas

Niederreiter

 

Maybe I am dreaming, Necas is really underrated and doesn't get talked about a lot, but he has top line talent.

 

I was thinking of this same scenario this morning. In a perfect world the Flames use Gaudreau to fill, IMO, their biggest need which is a play driving center. For me, that is the piece that is holding the Flames back from that contender status. 

 

I like Necas quite a bit and while i'm not sure he's a number one center he's got the type of upside you roll the dice with. Normally you don't trade those types of assets but there is a bit of a case to be made that it could make sense for the Hurricanes. Aho is in as their number one center and they still have Stall and Trochek behind him so the depth is there (and they aren't even playing Necas at center). They also have only one more year on the ELC for Svevhnikov (who will then be expensive to extend) and Hamilton for 1 more year until he's a UFA. It's a push your chips to the table type of move, but getting Gaudreau and his value contract for the next 2 years would give the Canes, IMO at least, probably the best team on paper in the NHL. 

 

I was going the same way as you, that I would take back salary or even add to the deal if I had to as I think Necas is the type of player the Flames need and there are not too many of them floating out there. Does feel too good to be true but there is some logic behind it. 

 

 

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Necas for Gaudreau would be ideal IMO. For CAR, Gaudreau doesn't have to be the catalyst, which could make him ore effective because teams have to gameplan for Aho/Teravainen/Svechnikov as well.

 

Necas fills a huge hole for the Flames. Not a sure thing, but huge upside. Long term, a role at C may not be in the cards for Necas with the Canes, multiple years of term for Aho, Trocheck and Staal. Necas could play C for the Flames and give them a functional 3rd line, or you play him in the top 6 at RW

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Just because we don't hear it doesn't mean it's not there.

Americans are as patriotic as you can get.

They hate to lose and they hate to lose to Canada.

 

So, while there is nothing that says an American player is worth more, they love a winner and like to be able to brag that he would be an Olympian.

Being able to intro JH as a native NJ boy would be something.

It's a source of pride. 

I don't know how people in Jersey are, but I don't think Johnny Gaudreau is going to boost attendance, Jack Hughes was billed as the best since McDavid and attendance still sucked, and its American Jack Hughes.  I also don't think if the Flames got Taylor Hall its going to start a new sell out streak immediately.  Its a nice story to get more people to relate to the team, but won't get people on the bandwagon ready to commit thousands for season tickets.  And that's without factoring in the COVID impact that the area could be facing.

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23 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't know how people in Jersey are, but I don't think Johnny Gaudreau is going to boost attendance, Jack Hughes was billed as the best since McDavid and attendance still sucked, and its American Jack Hughes.  I also don't think if the Flames got Taylor Hall its going to start a new sell out streak immediately.  Its a nice story to get more people to relate to the team, but won't get people on the bandwagon ready to commit thousands for season tickets.  And that's without factoring in the COVID impact that the area could be facing.

 

Agreed. If you want to sell more tickets you need to win. Any attendance "boost" you get from bringing in a marquee game is almost always short term unless it actually makes the team better. 

 

I don't think casual fans, who are the ones who swing your attendance, are the type that buy tickets to watch 1 player. They buy tickets to support winners. 

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28 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Necas for Gaudreau would be ideal IMO. For CAR, Gaudreau doesn't have to be the catalyst, which could make him ore effective because teams have to gameplan for Aho/Teravainen/Svechnikov as well.

 

Necas fills a huge hole for the Flames. Not a sure thing, but huge upside. Long term, a role at C may not be in the cards for Necas with the Canes, multiple years of term for Aho, Trocheck and Staal. Necas could play C for the Flames and give them a functional 3rd line, or you play him in the top 6 at RW

 

If it was me I would go with these lines based on the trade I mentioned above:

 

Mangiapane-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Necas-Niederreiter

Dube-Backlund-?

Lucic-Ryan-Gawdin

 

That center depth looks so much better going forward.

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32 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't know how people in Jersey are, but I don't think Johnny Gaudreau is going to boost attendance, Jack Hughes was billed as the best since McDavid and attendance still sucked, and its American Jack Hughes.  I also don't think if the Flames got Taylor Hall its going to start a new sell out streak immediately.  Its a nice story to get more people to relate to the team, but won't get people on the bandwagon ready to commit thousands for season tickets.  And that's without factoring in the COVID impact that the area could be facing.

 

It's not a huge building by NHL standards.  Around 16,000

This year and last year, they averaged 14,000 seats sold.

Not bad or a disappointing team.

 

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I think CAR may be the best trade fit. Even if you can't get Necas.

 

They have extra picks in round 2 and 3, a top 5 farm system and a bunch of roster players that could help the Flames.

 

 

I'm just a little skeptical of them moving Necas as they lack RHS just like the Flames do. They would only have Trocheck as a RHS.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

If it was me I would go with these lines based on the trade I mentioned above:

 

Mangiapane-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Necas-Niederreiter

Dube-Backlund-?

Lucic-Ryan-Gawdin

 

That center depth looks so much better going forward.

 

We gonna sign Hall right?

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2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We gonna sign Hall right?

 

I knew I was forgetting something.

 

Hall-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Necas-Mangiapne

Dube-Backlund-Niederreiter

Lucic-Ryan-Gawdin

 

There is a lot of balance to those lines.

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2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I knew I was forgetting something.

 

Hall-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Necas-Mangiapne

Dube-Backlund-Niederreiter

Lucic-Ryan-Gawdin

 

There is a lot of balance to those lines.

 

Looks good to me.  Hopefully Hall takes a hometown discount to come here.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

If it was me I would go with these lines based on the trade I mentioned above:

 

Mangiapane-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Necas-Niederreiter

Dube-Backlund-?

Lucic-Ryan-Gawdin

 

That center depth looks so much better going forward.

 

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We gonna sign Hall right?

 

 

That changes things:

 

Hall, Monahan, Lindholm

Tkachuk, Necas, Niederreiter

Dube, Backlund, Mangiapane

Lucic, Ryan, XXX

 

I like JTech's idea, I might just keep things a bit familiar with Backs and Tkachuk?

 

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