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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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To play off the CAR-Necas proposal, here's a mock roster

Trades

To CAR- Gaudreau and Luke Philp. They don't have the space for Bennett and have a lack of RHS in their organization. Their next Derek Ryan

To CGY- Necas and Niederreiter

 

To FLA- Bennett

To CGY- 2020 3rd(COL). I look for any team with multiple 3rd's for Bennett

 

RFA's

Kylington and Gawdin sign at 787,500, which is their QO's

Mangiapane signs at 2.6x3. Ondrej Kase deal being the closest comparable

UFA's

Talbot signs at 2.75x2. No pay raise but added security that Rittich doesn't have

Hall signs a "discount" 8x7

Schultz signs a 1 year prove it deal at 3mill to try and rebuild some value after a couple poor seasons in PIT. Doesn't need to be J. Schultz, any RHD at 3mill

 

Hall-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Necas-Mangiapane

Dube-Backlund-Niederreiter

Lucic-Ryan-Gawdin

 

Giordano-Andersson

Hanifin-Schultz

Valimaki-Kylington

 

Talbot/Rittich

 

With 2 extras sigend at 700k, that gives the Flames over 700k in cap space.

 

Only issue I have with this roster is the signing of a top 4 D in UFA for 3mill or less, you get what you pay for. Which means you may not be getting much

 

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Necas vs Reinhart... who is better?

Reinhart is clearly the more polished player and a finished product developmentally. A 50-60pt RW, can probably play a little C in a pinch.

 

Necas is all about the upside. He's a very good skater, very shifty. Necas is a gamble, 36pt rookie season, same numbers as Bennett lol. I really like Necas, but it's a gamble. Only one season so the sample size isn't big and he didn't play much C.

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24 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Reinhart is clearly the more polished player and a finished product developmentally. A 50-60pt RW, can probably play a little C in a pinch.

 

Necas is all about the upside. He's a very good skater, very shifty. Necas is a gamble, 36pt rookie season, same numbers as Bennett lol. I really like Necas, but it's a gamble. Only one season so the sample size isn't big and he didn't play much C.

 

Well because, I'm sure we can get Gaudreau for Reinhart straight up without taking back a bad contract in Neiderreiter.  He's a 3rd liner making $5-mil.  We've already got one of those.

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Necas vs Reinhart... who is better?

 

Right now Reinhart, but I think Necas has higher upside. I think Necas can be a 70+ point center, Reinhart doesn't have that ability IMO. So I would take Necas over Reinhart even if it means taking Niederreiter's contract.

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21 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Right now Reinhart, but I think Necas has higher upside. I think Necas can be a 70+ point center, Reinhart doesn't have that ability IMO. So I would take Necas over Reinhart even if it means taking Niederreiter's contract.

 

Pretty sure we can get Reinhart + 7th overall pick for Gaudreau.

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5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Pretty sure we can get Reinhart + 7th overall pick for Gaudreau.

 

If we could get that then maybe, but I am not sure we could get that package from the Sabres.

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

If we could get that then maybe, but I am not sure we could get that package from the Sabres.

 

I think top 3 pick would be franchise material and untouchable.  At #7, we talking first line potential but not really franchise material.  I think BUF would be all over that trade.  Add a 99-point player to help Eichel while Gaudreau is still on a bargain contract.

 

Pretty sure Reinhart will ask for $8-mil-per to force BUF to trade him.  Reinhart has had run-ins with BUF media and presumably wants out of BUF.  A fresh start with the Flames and I think he would do a friendly 5-year-deal.

 

BUF needs to trade away futures to win now or else Eichel will ask for a trade.

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I think if we are trading JH we should be targeting a RW player at a good price and a solid depth player. We then sign Hall and a solid 3rd line shout down defenseman. 

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Pretty sure we can get Reinhart + 7th overall pick for Gaudreau.

 

I would do that 100%.

 

Would have done a lot better a year ago.   

 

And will do a LOT worse next year if we hang on.

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10 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I would do that 100%.

 

Would have done a lot better a year ago.   

 

And will do a LOT worse next year if we hang on.

 

I just don't want to give Necas + Neiderreiter a combined $6-mil-per pretending we are paying Necas $5-mil and Neiderreiter rookie salary (because that's how it will be justified).  And that's hoping Necas turns into a 65-point C/RW when Reinhart already is one PLUS we gain a #7 overall. 

 

Neiderreiter plays uninspired and uninterested 90% of the time.  He's a bigger player who can be mean when he wants to be but doesn't hit enough.  Sam Bennett does that role much better.  

 

...I feel we can extend Reinhart around $6.5-mil x 4 years.  That buys 2-years UFA and he will turn UFA at 28-years-old.  Shouldn't break the bank on a medium-length extension and should leave room to sign Hall.

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23 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I just don't want to give Necas + Neiderreiter a combined $6-mil-per pretending we are paying Necas $5-mil and Neiderreiter rookie salary (because that's how it will be justified).  And that's hoping Necas turns into a 65-point C/RW when Reinhart already is one PLUS we gain a #7 overall. 

 

Neiderreiter plays uninspired and uninterested 90% of the time.  He's a bigger player who can be mean when he wants to be but doesn't hit enough.  Sam Bennett does that role much better.  

 

...I feel we can extend Reinhart around $6.5-mil x 4 years.  That buys 2-years UFA and he will turn UFA at 28-years-old.  Shouldn't break the bank on a medium-length extension and should leave room to sign Hall.

 

Thing is Reinhart isn't a 65 point player away from Eichel, even then he has only done that once with Eichel. IMO he is a 40-50 point player in Calgary.

 

The days of Reinhart playing center are past IMO, he is purely a RW at this point. 

 

I am not sure Gaudreau gets you the 7th overall pick let alone adding in Reinhart.

 

Necas has much higher upside and can still be developed as a center which holds way more value for Calgary going forward. 

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8 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Thing is Reinhart isn't a 65 point player away from Eichel, even then he has only done that once with Eichel. IMO he is a 40-50 point player in Calgary.

 

The days of Reinhart playing center are past IMO, he is purely a RW at this point. 

 

I am not sure Gaudreau gets you the 7th overall pick let alone adding in Reinhart.

 

Necas has much higher upside and can still be developed as a center which holds way more value for Calgary going forward. 

 

Wow, just wow.

A pending UFA Hall got a conditional 1st (as long as not top 3 this year) for a few months of play.

If you can't even get a top 7 pick for him then I suggest you not be a GM.  🙂  

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I just don’t see 2 years of Gaudreau getting a top 10 pick, sure it’s worth a try, but not very realistic. The Sabres aren’t close enough to contention to justify giving up 6 years of control on a top 10 pick for 2 years of Gaudreau

 

 

You could get their 1st for Monahan though, that fills an actual need for the Sabres. Doesn’t make sense for the Flames though.

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14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Necas vs Reinhart... who is better?

 

For the Flames I think Necas. I'm with Jtech in that I don't see Reinhart as a center so your paying an awful lot for a good but not great winger. I personally don't have a lot of interst in the Flames going after Reinhart. I don't think you'll like his extension.

 

Necas is cost controlled with more upside and a chance to play center. He is the much better fit IMO. 

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52 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Wow, just wow.

A pending UFA Hall got a conditional 1st (as long as not top 3 this year) for a few months of play.

If you can't even get a top 7 pick for him then I suggest you not be a GM.  🙂  

 

This tweet is a few years old, but it still shows that known top 10 picks just don't get traded very often, and they do it's to drop down in the draft or for young controllable talent. 

 

So while yes you should be able to get a 1st fairly easily for Gaudreau, top 10 picks carry way more value than those outside the top 10.

 

If you are looking for a top 10 pick for Gaudreau, then that is all you are getting most likely. I still don't think it is likely.

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8 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I just don’t see 2 years of Gaudreau getting a top 10 pick, sure it’s worth a try, but not very realistic. The Sabres aren’t close enough to contention to justify giving up 6 years of control on a top 10 pick for 2 years of Gaudreau

 

 

You could get their 1st for Monahan though, that fills an actual need for the Sabres. Doesn’t make sense for the Flames though.

 

From a Flames perspective, how is giving up 2 cost controlled years of an elite player worth any less.

I'm not saying we get it, but why would you take less.

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1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

 

This tweet is a few years old, but it still shows that known top 10 picks just don't get traded very often, and they do it's to drop down in the draft or for young controllable talent. 

 

So while yes you should be able to get a 1st fairly easily for Gaudreau, top 10 picks carry way more value than those outside the top 10.

 

If you are looking for a top 10 pick for Gaudreau, then that is all you are getting most likely. I still don't think it is likely.

 

My point is not how likely it is, just that it would be a waste if they didn't get at least that.

While trades for top 10 picks are rare, how many times has an equivalent player been traded before the draft where a pick's position is basically known.

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Here is the thing with trading Gaudreau, you have to be prepared your going to take an immediate step down in talent and probably "lose" the trade in the short term. If your angle is they shouldn't trade Gaudreau without getting equal talent back then that's ok, but then you won't trade Gaudreau because that isn't likely to happen. There is a reason top 10 pick trades are rare and there is a reason player for player hockey deals are rare, teams don't give up high end talent easily or frequently. 

 

Whether this is a "waste" or not depends on if you are looking big picture or small picture. Small picture, sure it's easy to rationalize that trading Gaudreau could be a "waste" because you are very likely going to lose the trade in the short term. Big picture or in the long term is where the Flames could hope to win by taking into account his pending UFA status, modified NTC, potential desire to leave and pending extension that IMO wont' be kind to the Flames. 

 

The price also isn't going to go up, it's going to go down. 

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The unfortunate thing is his value dropped considerably after this season.

Only two things could change that.

One, a good playoff.

Two, a good start to next season.

 

Understandably, the return is going to be seen as a loss no matter what he is worth.

A loss in the short term, and potentially a loss long term based on risk.

His value shouldn't be less during the season upcoming. 

His NTC doesn't kick in to the following year.

But if your trade involves draft pick(s) then it has to be this summer.

Before UFA time kicks in.

 

Trading for Hischier straight up would be about the best situation for both teams.

You get a good player that you can work with, and possibly adjust to the team's goals.

NJ gets a potential franchise player they can put their money on.

Even if he asks for $10m next contract, you could argue that it's worth it to them.

I don't see Reinhart in the same light.

In fact, I don't see a lot of (available) players that would be "worth" it to the Flames.

Necas may be the exception, but I don't pretend to know how good he is or isn't.

One would hope that you aren't having to take on a crappy contract or player to make it happen.

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Problem with waiting to start the season if you have teams that will execute their off-season plan and utilize whatever cap space they have. While it may (and I stress may because I personally don't think it would) raise the perceived value of the player your are likely going to offset or nullify any gains there by limiting what teams can actually offer due to a lack of cap space. Off-season is your best bet to try and trade assets especially ones under contract. 

 

Remember that while the Devils did get what is turning out to be a top 10 pick for Hall they had to eat 50% of his contract to do it. 

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Wow, just wow.

 

Wow is right.

 

Many things happening here.  

  • We don't have consensus on Gaudreau's trade value
  • We don't agree with Necas tragetory
  • We don't agree if Reinhart is a 65-point or a 40-point player
  • Neiderreiter would be Brouwer 2.0 (buyout candidate)

 

I honestly don't watch Necas much so I can't have much of an opinion.  I would only conclude Necas > Reinhart... That's why Necas comes with Neiderreiter and Reinhart comes with a #7 overall.  

 

I think BUF is in a unique situation.  They want to make the playoffs asap but they have no assets to trade other than trading picks to improve immediately.  Their #7 should be in play.  

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18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Trading for Hischier straight up would be about the best situation for both teams.

You get a good player that you can work with, and possibly adjust to the team's goals.

NJ gets a potential franchise player they can put their money on.

Even if he asks for $10m next contract, you could argue that it's worth it to them.

I don't see Reinhart in the same light.

In fact, I don't see a lot of (available) players that would be "worth" it to the Flames.

Necas may be the exception, but I don't pretend to know how good he is or isn't.

One would hope that you aren't having to take on a crappy contract or player to make it happen.

I just don't get their desperation for trading Hischier.  New Jersey is setting itself up better by trying to develop a 1-2 punch up the middle, and right now they are in a tough spot with the strength of the division, but what better way to develop guys than to go against Crosby-Malkin, Backstrom-Kuznetsov, Couturier-Giroux on most nights of the year.  If they can use their extra picks well they can take off when the teams like the Pens and Caps fall.  Just adding Gaudreau doesn't make them anymore a threat to the rest of the division next year or the year after, and if they don't show progress I don't think he just sticks around because he's from that state.

 

The main problems I have with expecting a kings ransom for Gaudreau is that many here view him as a 99 point player because that's what he was, the GM's around the league that Brad will be calling will be buying as if he was a 60 point player.  Yes the guy can be dynamic at times and have stretches where he puts up an insane amount of points, but he has prolonged stretches where he is MIA including clutch times, we know it, as it was a hot topic since the end of last season, we're fools to think that GM's and scouts around the league also don't believe he has flaws and don't want to exploit those flaws in trade negotiations.  We can maybe drive up the price with multiple teams offering, but I still think teams have limits for what they'd give up

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If and when the Flames trade Gaudreau, the consensus will be that the Flames lost the trade. Luckily, trades aren't judged by a stopwatch, they are judged by the calendar. 

 

Look back at the Hamonic trade, at the time it was a major win for the Flames, Hamonic was gonna step in and solidify the top 4. Less than a year later NYI selected Noah Dobson. NYI got a nice return, but was deemed to have lost the deal. Who would you rather have now?

 

The Erik Karlsson trade, was thought to instantly make the Sharks a cup favourite. Time has shown the Sens to have made out like bandits in that deal.

 

I would love to see the Flames trade Gaudreau for Necas, I really would. If they have to settle for futures though it's not the end of the world IMO. I would expect the Flames to get a pick in the 15-20 range in the package to go along with their 1st. In 2 years would you rather have Gaudreau at 29 years old making 9+, or 2 of Holloway, Guhle, Jarvis, Mercer, Greig, Zary, Lapierre, Baron etc, this is assuming nobody falls into your lap like Dobson did...

 

I see a Gaudreau trade as a good chance to really re-stock the Flames cupboards, I think you could get a 1st, a pair of solid prospects and a roster player. If the Flames sign Hall, they lose noting in the short-term and have a much better prospect pool long term.

Once again, Gaudreau to CAR for 2020 1st, 2021 2nd, Geekie, Rees and Foegele.

 

The top end of your prospect pool then consists of Pelletier, Rees, Valimaki, Geekie, Wolf and the 2 1st's. That looks a lot better than the Flames system right now IMO. If those picks are something like 11th and 15th, it's possible you end up with a guy like Holtz sliding to 11 and getting Holloway at 15th.

 

 

 

 

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IMO Niederreiter isn't at all compareable to Brouwer. Niederreiter is probably slightly overpaid, but only has 2 more years on his deal. He scored 23 goals last year, is a solid two way player and is still only 27. 

 

He is a much better player than being given credit for on here. 

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