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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I highly doubt it, I think Kakko is untouchable. Maybe if they wanted to try for Eichel but I don't see a scenario where they trade Kakko for Gaudreau unless the Flames added something dumb. 

 

Ya likely untouchable.  Only reason there may be a small chance is because it's the Rangers and they like to trade away youth to rush rebuilds.  

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15 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I would hope Kakko was the piece. Is he enough? 

 

kakko + 1st

for

Gaudreau + Bennett

 

It's going to cost at least Gaudreau + 1st for Kakko... May not even be enough from us.  May have to be Gaudreau + 1st + someone like Hanifin... Hopefully not Valimaki.  The Rangers need LD so maybe they will be interested in Hanifin.

 

Kakko was #2 overall with a decent rookie year.  Arguably better year than Jack Hughes.  Flashed some really elite stuff... A big Finn, not going to play like Rantanen who uses his size like a bull dozer but Kakko uses his size to shield the puck, win battles, and buy time.  Combine the ability to buy time using his big frame with elite vision and elite passing... Too early to tell but career 90-point player is not out of the question.

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21 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

yup! Still pissed about what the Flames got for Fox. People are still butt hurt about the Gilmour  trade. I can still be hurt about a trade that happened two years ago. Others were hurt about Martin St. Louis For awhile too. I think this management could’ve gotten more in a separate deal and not have him as the throw in last piece. 
 

I would hope Kakko was the piece. Is he enough? 
 

kakko + 1st

for

Gaudreau + Bennett

 

He only netted the Canes 2 2nd rounders, what price were you expecting? he was not a throw in. 

 

Don't get me wrong it sucks they had to deal him and i'm not happy about it either. I was high on Fox and it was when i saw him in the deal that I got mad. However, at the end of the day he wanted to be in a certain place and he was going to use his leverage to get there. Only so much you can do as a management team.

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11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya likely untouchable.  Only reason there may be a small chance is because it's the Rangers and they like to trade away youth to rush rebuilds.  

 

I'm not even really sure we can draw this conclusion. It's been a long time since the Rangers had to do this. 

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3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I'm not even really sure we can draw this conclusion. It's been a long time since the Rangers had to do this. 

 

I know but they had no choice.  They had to rebuild.  

 

Look at their moves the last year with Panarin and Trouba.  This year extended Kreider instead of dealing him for futures.  Zibanejad is in prime.   They resurrected Strome's career and established their 2nd line Center for their future.

 

Also, they've found their new #1 starter and feel with youth like Fox, Bushnevich, and some other forwards, they are "ready".

 

Just saying.  They may feel they are one good off-season away from putting together a contender and they may feel that begins with Gaudreau.

 

For most teams, ya.  But this is still the Rangers. 

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17 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

yup! Still pissed about what the Flames got for Fox. People are still butt hurt about the Gilmour  trade. I can still be hurt about a trade that happened two years ago. Others were hurt about Martin St. Louis For awhile too. I think this management could’ve gotten more in a separate deal and not have him as the throw in last piece. 
 

I would hope Kakko was the piece. Is he enough? 
 

kakko + 1st

for

Gaudreau + Bennett

 

We ended up with 2 guys we signed long term for two guys that needed or will need a raise.

In essence, we got two top 5 drafted players for one top 5 drafted D-man and a potential UFA D-man.

Ferland was a one year rental that brought them nothing.

Had we had a chance to sign Fox, then the deal would not have happened.

We had no picks to offer instead.

Maybe it's not good asset management but we got the players we wanted.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Had we had a chance to sign Fox, then the deal would not have happened.

 

Ya for me, I know we had to trade him because he was going to pull a Tim Erixon on us.  It just would've been justice to see Fox career go Tim Erixon as well.  Oh well.

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1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya for me, I know we had to trade him because he was going to pull a Tim Erixon on us.  It just would've been justice to see Fox career go Tim Erixon as well.  Oh well.

 

The risk of college players is there.

We needed to have him ready to sign to have a chance.

As it stood, we didn't have a spot at the time he looked at us.

Even if we had, we don't guarantee spots for rookies.

NY can make any kind of promise they want.

They are just bad enough to be able to play anyone.

Same way EDM can sign players like that.

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21 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

He only netted the Canes 2 2nd rounders, what price were you expecting? he was not a throw in. 

 

Don't get me wrong it sucks they had to deal him and i'm not happy about it either. I was high on Fox and it was when i saw him in the deal that I got mad. However, at the end of the day he wanted to be in a certain place and he was going to use his leverage to get there. Only so much you can do as a management team.


 

that’s exactly what I think the Flames should’ve gotten for him. I think where we differ is thinking that Hamilton was worth less or more and Ferland’s worth as well. I think it’s on them to re-sign Ferland as he still had value.
 

I think that’s where we all disagree.

 

i felt the Flames could’ve gotten more for Dougie who was a boarder on Norris D and a right shot. I think Lindholm has worth but wasn’t as much as Hamilton. And I felt Ferland was close to equal to Hanifin and the difference in that equates to the difference in Hamilton and Lindholm. Plus Hamilton is a top pair RD. They’re worth a lot more. 
 

everyone saw Lindholm as a 2nd liner tops when the deal came through and felt the a Flames lost the trade, Hanifin being a very subpar D guy, and still is very average. 
 

this is why I say it’s a different deal. Get that deal that the Canes got, I am fine with that.

 

i still think the Canes got the better deal. Lindholm is good but goes quiet. Hanifin is average. 

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The Adam Fox thing is an whole other can of worms I believe that there were rumours around the end of the 17/18 season that the Flames thought he would sign, but didn't. Then at the draft, they really pushed hard to draft him and he wouldn't again. I don't blame BT for trading him, if he's not going to sign you have to get something for him. I'd still do that deal every day of the week.

 

The NYR-CAR deal is a different beast. Wadell got a very good return from NYR, tip your cap to him. When the trade for Lindholm etc happened there was no way of knowing such an offer for Fox would exist down the road. Most pending college UFA's get a 3rd round pick in return, that NYR offer was an anomaly. For example, EDM traded John Marino because he wouldn't sign, got a 6th rounder in return. Marino is a dang good defender, but at least from an Oiler standpoint, they got something

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56 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

that’s exactly what I think the Flames should’ve gotten for him. I think where we differ is thinking that Hamilton was worth less or more and Ferland’s worth as well. I think it’s on them to re-sign Ferland as he still had value.
 

I think that’s where we all disagree.

 

i felt the Flames could’ve gotten more for Dougie who was a boarder on Norris D and a right shot. I think Lindholm has worth but wasn’t as much as Hamilton. And I felt Ferland was close to equal to Hanifin and the difference in that equates to the difference in Hamilton and Lindholm. Plus Hamilton is a top pair RD. They’re worth a lot more. 
 

everyone saw Lindholm as a 2nd liner tops when the deal came through and felt the a Flames lost the trade, Hanifin being a very subpar D guy, and still is very average. 
 

this is why I say it’s a different deal. Get that deal that the Canes got, I am fine with that.

 

i still think the Canes got the better deal. Lindholm is good but goes quiet. Hanifin is average. 

 

I think where we differ is you seem to give no thought to the fact that Lindholm is one of the best contracts in the league and while Hanifin is avg i agree, he does carry cost certainty at a fair price for the next 4 years. The Flames got over 10 years of cost certainty in the deal and one of the best contracts in the league while the Canes have already lost Ferland and are now looking Hamiton as a UFA next summer. Hamilton is probably going to cost, in cap hit, almost what Lindholm and Hanifin make combined. I'm actually someone who was a big Hamilton fan and liked him more than most on here so I don't think I underrate his value.

 

But in a cap system cost certainty matters and it matters a lot, which is why I think Fox needed to be in the deal for Carolina to pull the trigger. I mean there is a possibility that 3 years after this deal Carolina is left with nothing but 2nd round picks and they lost all of Hamilton, Ferland and Fox. Not saying it's likely but it's a plausible scenario. 

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37 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

that’s exactly what I think the Flames should’ve gotten for him. I think where we differ is thinking that Hamilton was worth less or more and Ferland’s worth as well. I think it’s on them to re-sign Ferland as he still had value.
 

I think that’s where we all disagree.

 

i felt the Flames could’ve gotten more for Dougie who was a boarder on Norris D and a right shot. I think Lindholm has worth but wasn’t as much as Hamilton. And I felt Ferland was close to equal to Hanifin and the difference in that equates to the difference in Hamilton and Lindholm. Plus Hamilton is a top pair RD. They’re worth a lot more. 
 

everyone saw Lindholm as a 2nd liner tops when the deal came through and felt the a Flames lost the trade, Hanifin being a very subpar D guy, and still is very average. 
 

this is why I say it’s a different deal. Get that deal that the Canes got, I am fine with that.

 

i still think the Canes got the better deal. Lindholm is good but goes quiet. Hanifin is average. 

The thing is we never know.  If you're hearing rumblings about a guy of Hamilton's talent level is being made available of course every team is interested in that talent.  But of course, a Norris caliber right shot, 6-5 good skating d-man is being shopped begs the question of why?  and the fact he was only traded 3 years earlier adds another question.  Those are some red flags, and that is enough to scare some teams off or lower what they would be willing to give up.  But we still got a 23 and 21 year old former top 5 picks, neither were overly impressive to start their careers for sure, but that team wasn't very good either.  You mentioned St. Louis earlier, he was 25 with 4 goals and 20 points in 69 games when the Flames let him go, why do we cry about the lack of patience from 20 years ago and have little patience for guys that are actually younger than St. Louis was.

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

I know but they had no choice.  They had to rebuild.  

 

Look at their moves the last year with Panarin and Trouba.  This year extended Kreider instead of dealing him for futures.  Zibanejad is in prime.   They resurrected Strome's career and established their 2nd line Center for their future.

 

Also, they've found their new #1 starter and feel with youth like Fox, Bushnevich, and some other forwards, they are "ready".

 

Just saying.  They may feel they are one good off-season away from putting together a contender and they may feel that begins with Gaudreau.

 

For most teams, ya.  But this is still the Rangers. 

 

And I don't disagree with this at all. They've build a really good farm system and i think will be aggressive. It just won't be with Kakko as I don't think moving him speed up their rebuild. He'll be a bit part of it already starting next year. 

 

but other assets for sure I think they will move. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The Adam Fox thing is an whole other can of worms I believe that there were rumours around the end of the 17/18 season that the Flames thought he would sign, but didn't. Then at the draft, they really pushed hard to draft him and he wouldn't again. I don't blame BT for trading him, if he's not going to sign you have to get something for him. I'd still do that deal every day of the week.

 

The NYR-CAR deal is a different beast. Wadell got a very good return from NYR, tip your cap to him. When the trade for Lindholm etc happened there was no way of knowing such an offer for Fox would exist down the road. Most pending college UFA's get a 3rd round pick in return, that NYR offer was an anomaly. For example, EDM traded John Marino because he wouldn't sign, got a 6th rounder in return. Marino is a dang good defender, but at least from an Oiler standpoint, they got something

 

The reason why the trade had as much value to NY was they wanted to play him in the first year of the deal.

At the time of the Calgary trade, he was going back to school for a minimum of one year.

 

Anyway, moving one.

I'm hopeful we can make some trades to get rid of some higher paid players that don't offer us much.

Hanifin is fine, but you take the good with the bad.

Bennett and Janko have become strictly role players which you should spend a lot less on.

 

Our biggest needs are on RD and a 3rd or 4th line RW.

You could use some of the prospects to fill the wing spots, but RD is always going to be a hole.

If you could pair Kylington with a more shutdown type, then you could use him on 3rd pair RD.

That still leaves you with a missing RD.

If Valimaki was able to step into 2nd pairing minutes quickly, then you can use Hanifin to supplement the team elsewhere.

 

 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I think where we differ is you seem to give no thought to the fact that Lindholm is one of the best contracts in the league and while Hanifin is avg i agree, he does carry cost certainty at a fair price for the next 4 years. The Flames got over 10 years of cost certainty in the deal and one of the best contracts in the league while the Canes have already lost Ferland and are now looking Hamiton as a UFA next summer. Hamilton is probably going to cost, in cap hit, almost what Lindholm and Hanifin make combined. I'm actually someone who was a big Hamilton fan and liked him more than most on here so I don't think I underrate his value.

 

But in a cap system cost certainty matters and it matters a lot, which is why I think Fox needed to be in the deal for Carolina to pull the trigger. I mean there is a possibility that 3 years after this deal Carolina is left with nothing but 2nd round picks and they lost all of Hamilton, Ferland and Fox. Not saying it's likely but it's a plausible scenario. 


nut those contracts were done by BT not Carolina. That’s a win for BT sure. 
 

the other thing is, I feel Hanifin is overpriced. When I recently went back to see his contract I was shocked it was so high. I just don’t think he’s that good. 
 

and in terms of having them, it’s also on the team to keep them. 
 

I agree with most of what you say, I just think Fox needed to be a deal on its own. 

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1 hour ago, sak22 said:

The thing is we never know.  If you're hearing rumblings about a guy of Hamilton's talent level is being made available of course every team is interested in that talent.  But of course, a Norris caliber right shot, 6-5 good skating d-man is being shopped begs the question of why?  and the fact he was only traded 3 years earlier adds another question.  Those are some red flags, and that is enough to scare some teams off or lower what they would be willing to give up.  But we still got a 23 and 21 year old former top 5 picks, neither were overly impressive to start their careers for sure, but that team wasn't very good either.  You mentioned St. Louis earlier, he was 25 with 4 goals and 20 points in 69 games when the Flames let him go, why do we cry about the lack of patience from 20 years ago and have little patience for guys that are actually younger than St. Louis was.


 

I know, I am just saying that some people still talk about it. It’s an organizational flaw. 
 

I do wonder what his problems were. After I heard that he’d rather go to art galleries than hang out with teammates it actually made me like him more. I don’t know if he had character flaws, but having opinions seems to be a problem and maybe being an artsy guy he had his own thoughts. 
 

I guess he was upset when the Flames traded his bro. I don’t know the inner voices of how that went down so maybe it’s more than just, “you traded my bro” kinda thing. 

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5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


nut those contracts were done by BT not Carolina. That’s a win for BT sure. 
 

the other thing is, I feel Hanifin is overpriced. When I recently went back to see his contract I was shocked it was so high. I just don’t think he’s that good. 
 

and in terms of having them, it’s also on the team to keep them. 
 

I agree with most of what you say, I just think Fox needed to be a deal on its own. 

 

The last thing I will say about Fox was he had zero value to NY when we dealt him.

They didn't need to trade for him then.

Assuming we could even make the trade without Fox, then the replacement would have been something we would have trouble swallowing.

Carolina dealt him when they did because he flat out told them he wasn't signing.

NY was in a position to play him, so they ante'd up top get him then.

 

Hanifin is paid what you pay for top 4 D-men these days.

He was close to Brodie in production.

And you are getting far more years out of him than you would an equivalent like Hamonic or Brodie.

 

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19 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

I know, I am just saying that some people still talk about it. It’s an organizational flaw. 
 

I do wonder what his problems were. After I heard that he’d rather go to art galleries than hang out with teammates it actually made me like him more. I don’t know if he had character flaws, but having opinions seems to be a problem and maybe being an artsy guy he had his own thoughts. 
 

I guess he was upset when the Flames traded his bro. I don’t know the inner voices of how that went down so maybe it’s more than just, “you traded my bro” kinda thing. 

That part was just something made up by John Shannon as an example that got taken literally.  I've known people that worked closely with the players who have said that he is one of the easiest to work with and a genuinely nice human, and I've heard some not so good stories of others.  My own belief was the trade came from one of 2 sources.  1) Dougie requested a move.  2) Tre couldn't let the failures of the season fall directly on Gulutzan, a major move needed to be made and Dougie made the most sense.  This story https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/tragedy-forged-special-bond-dougie-hamilton-grieving-family/ was one I had heard of when it actually happened, and why I will stick up for his character despite not personally knowing him.  Neat fact too, the guy who wrote this lovely piece on him was the same guy who painted him as a guy who didn't care about losing.

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I thought it was really disappointing how quickly it seemed many turned on Hamilton. Not only was he a good guy on all accounts he was among the most active Flames when it came to charity and in particular visiting the Children's Hospital. I think the fact people pointed to Hamilton as a "problem" was really disappointing. 

 

From everyone i've talked to it i think the trade came down to fit and at the end of the day neither side was 100% happy. I don't think Hamilton formerly requested a trade but he also made it known he wasn't very happy here by skipping out on his end of season interview and then not returning calls for a few days. 

 

I don't think there were "problems" necessarily, I just think it was a situation where this wasn't a good fit. That happens and I'm not sure either side should necessarily need to be blamed for it. 

 

I'll try to bury this and move on as i'm not sure we need to discuss this again and again. My apologies for just being bored and wanted to talk hockey but I should just move on and not bring it up. 

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It was a little weird how it ended with Dougie, he played well as a Flame, despite being very polarizing.

 

At the time I would have rather seen Brodie traded. But there were obviously other factors, maybe both sides needed a breakup and to be honest, Dougie had more value than Brodie. Have to give up a good player to get a good player.

 

It was unfortunate how it ended, but both teams have benefited from it which is good to see

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No surprise here, Flames have been linked for a year now.

checks some boxes but it’s a potentially expensive acquisition and he’s coming off a brutal year. 
 

 

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I like Anderson a lot. He's a bit like Tkachuk, there aren't many players that can play a power forward game like him. This past season was really poor for him, injuries and rumours that him and Torts had enough of one another.

 

It just comes down to cost. Lots of teams need a guy like him. Anderson is coming off a really bad year and significant injury. He's also a year away from UFA. Little bit of risk involved.

 

 

Not to question the source too much, but I wonder how reliable of a source he is. Saw a tweet from him saying Derek Ryan would love to remain a Flame after his deal is up. It makes sense, and I don't wanna question him too much, but he only has 255 followers.

 

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4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I like Anderson a lot. He's a bit like Tkachuk, there aren't many players that can play a power forward game like him. This past season was really poor for him, injuries and rumours that him and Torts had enough of one another.

 

It just comes down to cost. Lots of teams need a guy like him. Anderson is coming off a really bad year and significant injury. He's also a year away from UFA. Little bit of risk involved.

 

 

Not to question the source too much, but I wonder how reliable of a source he is. Saw a tweet from him saying Derek Ryan would love to remain a Flame after his deal is up. It makes sense, and I don't wanna question him too much, but he only has 255 followers.

 


it’s Eric Duhatschek who reported on the Flames interest in Anderson but it’s for the Atheletic and I no longer subscribe so I wasn’t able to post it. He would be the original source 
 

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54 minutes ago, cross16 said:


it’s Eric Duhatschek who reported on the Flames interest in Anderson but it’s for the Atheletic and I no longer subscribe so I wasn’t able to post it. He would be the original source 
 

It was actually Aaron Portzline that reported it, had to do some digging on the Athletic. Was confused as I hadn’t seen any Duhatschek Flames content in recent days.

 

Duhatschek spearheaded an effort among NHL beatwriters to submit early Seattle protection lists. Aaron Portzline covers CBJ and mentioned Anderson received interest from the Flames, among other teams.

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2 hours ago, cross16 said:

No surprise here, Flames have been linked for a year now.

checks some boxes but it’s a potentially expensive acquisition and he’s coming off a brutal year. 
 

 

 

We should be interested depending on the price.  Like, Jankowski straight up.

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