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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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I don't really want the Flames to acquire Matt Murray, but if they did there's one deal I wouldn't mind.

 

Derek Ryan for Matt Murray. I know they want a 1st, but they won't get it. There's just too many goalies on the market and they are selling low on a goalie coming off a bad season, with arb rights and injury concerns. 

 

Pens need to shed cap and this allows them to save 625k off of the 3.75 Murray made last year. Which of course, is not factoring in Murray's raise he will be getting. Pens need a 3rd line C as well, Bjugstad, Brassard have all been swings and misses for them in recent years.


Might seem like an underwhelming return for the Pens, but again, I don't really want Murray and their GM has made some questionable moves in recently.

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10 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don't really want the Flames to acquire Matt Murray, but if they did there's one deal I wouldn't mind.

 

Derek Ryan for Matt Murray. I know they want a 1st, but they won't get it. There's just too many goalies on the market and they are selling low on a goalie coming off a bad season, with arb rights and injury concerns. 

 

Pens need to shed cap and this allows them to save 625k off of the 3.75 Murray made last year. Which of course, is not factoring in Murray's raise he will be getting. Pens need a 3rd line C as well, Bjugstad, Brassard have all been swings and misses for them in recent years.


Might seem like an underwhelming return for the Pens, but again, I don't really want Murray and their GM has made some questionable moves in recently.

Goalies in PITTS have had a rough go.  Not like Jack Johnson is helping much.

I wonder if Murray would rebound here.

He's a RFA with rights, so he's going to get a decent salary.

I would almost want him to go to arbitration, just so the deal would be short.

 

Maybe we could structure a deal around Murray and Marino.

Ryan + Kylington + 3rd (if EDM decides to not defer).

 

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22 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don't really want the Flames to acquire Matt Murray, but if they did there's one deal I wouldn't mind.

 

Derek Ryan for Matt Murray. I know they want a 1st, but they won't get it. There's just too many goalies on the market and they are selling low on a goalie coming off a bad season, with arb rights and injury concerns. 

 

Pens need to shed cap and this allows them to save 625k off of the 3.75 Murray made last year. Which of course, is not factoring in Murray's raise he will be getting. Pens need a 3rd line C as well, Bjugstad, Brassard have all been swings and misses for them in recent years.


Might seem like an underwhelming return for the Pens, but again, I don't really want Murray and their GM has made some questionable moves in recently.

I seriously want nothing to do with him .

First is the money , he will likely get paid like a 2x cup winner in arbitration 

second is his injuries 

Third , and i think most important is his game . I was hearing a roundtable on him and his game has to change , He has weakness for cross net passes .. lateral is not that strong ..teams figured it out and he's been extremely average ever since .. the game changed and he didnt 

 

He's basically a project again and I think now is not the time to be taking on an expensive project..  of the potential trade names I'm hearing, really only Anderson appeals to me 

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What if we use Backlund as trade bait to bring back another top 4 dman.  I personally think Lindholm at center can do all that Backlund can.

Sign Hall.

 

To Buffalo:

Backlund

To Calgary:

Montour

 

Leaves us with....

Hall(8) Monahan(6.375) Tkatchuk (7)

Gaudreau(6.75) Lindholm (4.85) Mangiapane(3)

Dube(770k) Bennett(2.5) Lucic(5.25)

Gawdin(900k) Ryan(3.1) Reider(1.2)


Gio(6.75) Andersson (4.5)
Hanifin(4.95) Montour (3.5)
Valimaki (900k) Yelesin(925k)

 

Total cap: 71,150,000

 

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5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't see it either, but at the same time the NHL landscape has changed in recent years. St Louis wasn't a cup contender but they got hot at the right time. As you point out Washington was the team that "couldn't win the big one" until they did, and now we have Dallas a team that on paper (and in their play) doesn't look like a traditional cup winner on the verge of getting there. The line between winning and losing as never been finer in my experience.

 

So while I don't see it and it's not my personal opinion I can see why management sees it the other way. 


 

I disagree. St Louis was a cup contender going into the season. They ended up with a horrible start and then played to their preseason predictions after Binnington came up. It’s much like when LA won their first cup. The media had them first but then they only ended up 8th, but showed why they were predicted to win. 
 

St. Louis have been a very good team for many years and to say they just got hot at the right time is an understatement.

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37 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

I disagree. St Louis was a cup contender going into the season. They ended up with a horrible start and then played to their preseason predictions after Binnington came up. It’s much like when LA won their first cup. The media had them first but then they only ended up 8th, but showed why they were predicted to win. 
 

St. Louis have been a very good team for many years and to say they just got hot at the right time is an understatement.

 

They were the 11th best pre season odds, just ahead of the Flames, and coming off a season where they missed the playoffs. Hard for that to be a cup contender in my books.

 

You seem to be suggesting I am implying that St Louis didn't deserve it or got lucky and that is very far from the case. The Blues were a good team for sure, but got hot at the right time behind a goalie playing excellent and it took that to win the cup. The point here is not to discount at all what the Blues did, but to point out that with so much parity in the league right now the line between good to very good to winning the cup is much closer than ever before. 

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Question about goaltending.  

What makes more sense?

 

Trade for Murray (no not for a 1st rounder)

Trade for Andersen

Trade for Keumper

FA signing of Lehner (assuming he makes it to FA)

FA signing of Holtby

FA signing of Markstrom

Re-sign Talbot

 

I've let off guys like Elliott, Howard, Greiss, Anderson as being too old.

Whatever the decision, Rittich has to either be the 1b or 1a.

Or do you suggest trading him and re-signing Talbot?

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12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Question about goaltending.  

What makes more sense?

 

Trade for Murray (no not for a 1st rounder)

Trade for Andersen

Trade for Keumper

FA signing of Lehner (assuming he makes it to FA)

FA signing of Holtby

FA signing of Markstrom

Re-sign Talbot

 

I've let off guys like Elliott, Howard, Greiss, Anderson as being too old.

Whatever the decision, Rittich has to either be the 1b or 1a.

Or do you suggest trading him and re-signing Talbot?

For the money the others are going to ask/get keep Talbot and make sure its a 50/50 workload next season. It's going to be a condensed schedule with alot of B2Bs so any team that rides their starter 55+ games is asking for trouble.

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So as of now the Flames and Gustafsson are not in contract talks.

 

This is not a surprise to me but I'm also not sure it means they won't have him back. I think he's the type of player you circle back to and not a player you put high on your priority list. That or he could just be priced out of their market. 

 

I like what he does on the PP but I'm not that keen on paying a dman you have to shelter as much as you do him. Could probably get Justin Schultz cheaper if you wanted to go that route. 

 

 

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Gus looking at trying to get paid, my take is he will be disappointed in the market.   Would take him back at 2 max nothing more than 2 years.  I got too much of an Anton Babchuck vibe with him, and he just terrified me most the time.

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3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

So as of now the Flames and Gustaffson are not in contract talks.

 

This is not a surprise to me but I'm also not sure it means they won't have him back. I think he's the type of player you circle back to and not a player you put high on your priority list. That or he could just be priced out of their market. 

 

I like what he does on the PP but I'm not that keen on paying a dman you have to shelter as much as you do him. Could probably get Justin Schultz cheaper if you wanted to go that route. 

 

 

 

I liked what Gus did for the PP in the playoffs, but it was a limited viewing due to number of games played.

He's not a very good defensive defenseman.

I would say that between him and Schultz, Schultz is better overall.

But his last paycheck was $6m.

He's not worth close to that now.

As for Gus, I think he might be worth around $2m, as he didn;t exactly have a career year.

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Question about goaltending.  

What makes more sense?

 

Trade for Murray (no not for a 1st rounder)

Trade for Andersen

Trade for Keumper

FA signing of Lehner (assuming he makes it to FA)

FA signing of Holtby

FA signing of Markstrom

Re-sign Talbot

 

I've let off guys like Elliott, Howard, Greiss, Anderson as being too old.

Whatever the decision, Rittich has to either be the 1b or 1a.

Or do you suggest trading him and re-signing Talbot?


 

id go UFA if we can. I am tired of using draft picks on goalies for 1-2 years of their service.
 

i think Talbot is fine and most goalies will play to his caliber. The way the Flames play D, it’s almost guaranteed that the goalie will end up the same as Talbot and Rittich’s numbers. 
 

is Holtby a huge upgrade? Markstrom might be, but he’d limit what we can do in FA for a D or F. We need a D in the Top4 and bottom pair. Id like someone who can actually play D.

 

is Lehner that much better? I just wonder with the D system and players in Calgary, are their goalies that can mask the issues? I’d say only a Price might. 

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:


 

id go UFA if we can. I am tired of using draft picks on goalies for 1-2 years of their service.
 

i think Talbot is fine and most goalies will play to his caliber. The way the Flames play D, it’s almost guaranteed that the goalie will end up the same as Talbot and Rittich’s numbers. 
 

is Holtby a huge upgrade? Markstrom might be, but he’d limit what we can do in FA for a D or F. We need a D in the Top4 and bottom pair. Id like someone who can actually play D.

 

is Lehner that much better? I just wonder with the D system and players in Calgary, are their goalies that can mask the issues? I’d say only a Price might. 

 

Watching these two goalies play in the WCF, you can see how well they play.

Not saying I want tp commit a bunch of money to one of them, but boy they know how to stop pucks.

They've each had forgettable games, but when they are good, they are great.

I think we've seen so few games of that level here.

Maybe game 3.

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Any goalie that is between the pipes in thus club better be used to a million shots. Our d coverage and systems alllow far to mmay grade A chances, they all willlook below sverage

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31 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Any goalie that is between the pipes in thus club better be used to a million shots. Our d coverage and systems alllow far to mmay grade A chances, they all willlook below sverage


 

the blues made Elliott look great. He had amazing numbers and then was shipped out of Calgary so quick. He looked very average in Calgary. It’s the same with others.

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In the playoffs, and adjusted for per 60 rates, The Flames defensively ranked:

 

10th best in expected goals against

14th best in scoring chances against

7th best in High danger chances against

 

In the regular season

15th best in expected goal against

21st in scoring chances against

8th best in high danger chances against

 

This idea that the Flames are terrible defensively and that's why their goalies don't look good is false. Neither Rittich nor Talbot during the season where anywhere close to the top of the league in thinks likes goals saved above avg, expected goalies against, or high danger saved/60. 

 

Flames could be better for sure as they are not the best but when you bring in avg goalies you should expect avg results and that's what continues to happen in Calgary with goaltending. 

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1 minute ago, cross16 said:

In the playoffs, and adjusted for per 60 rates, The Flames defensively ranked:

 

10th best in expected goals against

14th best in scoring chances against

7th best in High danger chances against

 

In the regular season

15th best in expected goal against

21st in scoring chances against

8th best in high danger chances against

 

This idea that the Flames are terrible defensively and that's why their goalies don't look good is false. Neither Rittich nor Talbot during the season where anywhere close to the top of the league in thinks likes goals saved above avg, expected goalies against, or high danger saved/60. 

 

Flames could be better for sure as they are not the best but when you bring in avg goalies you should expect avg results and that's what continues to happen in Calgary with goaltending. 

 

Goalies can be dangerous in that a system can really skew their stats, and make them look better than they are. For example any goalie playing for Trotz is always going to have betterstats than their ability would suggest, because of his system.

 

So this is where as a GM I would lean heavily on my analytics department, to help make sure I was acquiring the best goalie and the right goalie for the system my coach is deploying.

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10 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Any goalie that is between the pipes in thus club better be used to a million shots. Our d coverage and systems alllow far to mmay grade A chances, they all willlook below sverage

 

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:


 

the blues made Elliott look great. He had amazing numbers and then was shipped out of Calgary so quick. He looked very average in Calgary. It’s the same with others.

If you want to see how that can be remedied take a look at recent winners. Between the Bolts, Stars, Knights,  and last years Blues, is their d-line.

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3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

So this is where as a GM I would lean heavily on my analytics department, to help make sure I was acquiring the best goalie and the right goalie for the system my coach is deploying.

 

Agreed and honestly the Flames last year are a really good example of this. 

 

Under Peters, they were good at limiting shot volume but game up more quality. Rittich was a better fit because he's really good at making those high end saves but he struggles giving up softies.  So under Peters, Rittich looked like the guy. He was 25th in high danger save %. 

 

Under Ward, they switched. Collapsed down and took away the slot but ended up giving up volume from the points/sides. Rittich's game declined because now giving up those softies becomes more critical when you don't get those highlight reel stops and the volume is increased. Talbot starting to look better and better because that is his game. He' a blocker who is going to be fine facing that volume, but he lacks the high end speed/movement skills to make those recovery stops goalies like Rittich can make. 

 

If you can find a blend of both that's what you want but that's also becoming harder and harder to find in the league right now. Which is why, even though it's very boring, i'm fine with Talbot back at the right price as he is a good fit for how Ward wants to play (and assuming Ward keeps the same strategy in place). 

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10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

In the playoffs, and adjusted for per 60 rates, The Flames defensively ranked:

 

10th best in expected goals against

14th best in scoring chances against

7th best in High danger chances against

 

In the regular season

15th best in expected goal against

21st in scoring chances against

8th best in high danger chances against

 

This idea that the Flames are terrible defensively and that's why their goalies don't look good is false. Neither Rittich nor Talbot during the season where anywhere close to the top of the league in thinks likes goals saved above avg, expected goalies against, or high danger saved/60. 

 

Flames could be better for sure as they are not the best but when you bring in avg goalies you should expect avg results and that's what continues to happen in Calgary with goaltending. 

To add to that:

20th in goals for

16th in goals against

24th in shots against/game

19th in PP%

 

It's way more than the goaltending that is average about this team. In fact Talbots #s are above average if anything, regular season and playoffs.

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4 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

To add to that:

20th in goals for

16th in goals against

24th in shots against/game

19th in PP%

 

It's way more than the goaltending that is average about this team. In fact Talbots #s are above average if anything, regular season and playoffs.

 

Don't disagree and to be clear I am not pointing the finger at goaltending. I would like a more longer term option than the year to year cycle they are on but acquiring a goalie from the outside is not that high on my priority list. 

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4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Don't disagree and to be clear I am not pointing the finger at goaltending. 

You're not but a few seem to think that a superstar goalie is the magic bullet that will fix everything. Fixes are needed everywhere so the $ needs to be spread out.

 

 

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2 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

 

If you want to see how that can be remedied take a look at recent winners. Between the Bolts, Stars, Knights,  and last years Blues, is their d-line.


 

Ya, and that’s the thing, the Flames could look great and have middling defensive numbers but when the going gets tough and teams put the pressure on, they get walked all over, get scored on at the end of periods. In the playoffs they’ve shown not able to handle certain times of games. Sure the defensive numbers look ok, but it’s the times and the way they lose games that make a difference in the playoffs. 

 

for me it’s the all-round. When the Flames give up a puck in the wrong time it hangs goalies out to dry. Plus, I feel other teams know the Flames give up these kinds of chances and the game plan is to bide their time. Or when needed they apply pressure and the Flames fold.

 

i don’t deny the numbers, they’re there, but they only tell half of the story.
 

 

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

In the playoffs, and adjusted for per 60 rates, The Flames defensively ranked:

 

10th best in expected goals against

14th best in scoring chances against

7th best in High danger chances against

 

In the regular season

15th best in expected goal against

21st in scoring chances against

8th best in high danger chances against

 

This idea that the Flames are terrible defensively and that's why their goalies don't look good is false. Neither Rittich nor Talbot during the season where anywhere close to the top of the league in thinks likes goals saved above avg, expected goalies against, or high danger saved/60. 

 

Flames could be better for sure as they are not the best but when you bring in avg goalies you should expect avg results and that's what continues to happen in Calgary with goaltending. 

 

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2 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

To add to that:

20th in goals for

16th in goals against

24th in shots against/game

19th in PP%

 

It's way more than the goaltending that is average about this team. In fact Talbots #s are above average if anything, regular season and playoffs.


 

another reason, I think we need one of the best goalies in order to win. If they’re just above average we are not scoring enough to make up for the average Save percentages and goals against. Not scoring probably makes the goalies look worse, or vital to success, then they get blamed. 

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