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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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14 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I know some need to wait but I don't. I am completely comfortable with Valimaki getting top 4 mins next year because he is a stud and no doubt he can handle it. I think we forget this guy came into the Colorado series not playing many NHL games and was their best dman. He's ready. 

 

The downside to waiting for Valimaki to pass Hanifin is in that scenario it's very likely Hanifin's value will depreciate. I'm by no means suggesting they need to trade him right now but putting him out there makes perfect sense to me. 

 

That's why we trade Giordano right now.  He noticably regressed in these playoffs and it's expected he will continue to regress the next two years.   It's not even to say Hanifin will pass Giordano on the depth chart but rather Giordano's game and reliability will drop below Hanifin... We could end the season with,

 

#1 Valimaki-UFA

#2 Hanifin-Anderson

#3 Giordano-UFA

 

I know many are justifying a Hanifin trade because of the cap savings.  No.  The real cap savings is moving Giordano.  I think if we move him now, then we can still get something decent for him.

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I say go big or stay home

How about Gaudreau and Hanifin for Couturier and Ghost

or bigger yet

Monahan ,Hanifin and Gaudreau for Barkov and Ekblad

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53 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's why we trade Giordano right now.  He noticably regressed in these playoffs and it's expected he will continue to regress the next two years.   It's not even to say Hanifin will pass Giordano on the depth chart but rather Giordano's game and reliability will drop below Hanifin... We could end the season with,

 

#1 Valimaki-UFA

#2 Hanifin-Anderson

#3 Giordano-UFA

 

I know many are justifying a Hanifin trade because of the cap savings.  No.  The real cap savings is moving Giordano.  I think if we move him now, then we can still get something decent for him.

I agree if it was possible, but with 11 teams that are wiped out of the picture due to the NTC, and many others with cap issues or team imposed caps plus teams with no shot at winning are going for him.  I just don't see it as an easy proposition to not only move him but gain anything of real value in the process.  I just don't think the market for aging players on contracts north of 5 was going to be strong to begin with, but the shape of the league is going to be worse.

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59 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's why we trade Giordano right now.  He noticably regressed in these playoffs and it's expected he will continue to regress the next two years.   It's not even to say Hanifin will pass Giordano on the depth chart but rather Giordano's game and reliability will drop below Hanifin... We could end the season with,

 

#1 Valimaki-UFA

#2 Hanifin-Anderson

#3 Giordano-UFA

 

I know many are justifying a Hanifin trade because of the cap savings.  No.  The real cap savings is moving Giordano.  I think if we move him now, then we can still get something decent for him.

 

This is a valid point and I don't disagree with it but I also think it's not going to happen. The Flames clearly want to keep competing and I don't think you move your captain and leader in that scenario, especially when i don't think the value will be worth it. You are not really going to save cap because I think any team interested would need to send salary back and i don't think the upside to the move would be much either. So I'm not disagreeing with your point in theory but in practice I don't think its an option the Flames will entertain. 

 

I also think too much is being made of the playoffs. Gio had a great season and was a top pair dman all year. A bad playoffs when he was injured and sat for months is IMO not a rush to judgement that he has regressed. 

 

I also don't view moving Hanifin as having to do with cap savings. I think the Flames should just try and sell a bit higher on a player and use it to improve in other areas including maybe even a 1 for 1 swap in terms of cap hits. 

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10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This is a valid point and I don't disagree with it but I also think it's not going to happen. The Flames clearly want to keep competing and I don't think you move your captain and leader in that scenario, especially when i don't think the value will be worth it. You are not really going to save cap because I think any team interested would need to send salary back and i don't think the upside to the move would be much either. So I'm not disagreeing with your point in theory but in practice I don't think its an option the Flames will entertain. 

 

I also think too much is being made of the playoffs. Gio had a great season and was a top pair dman all year. A bad playoffs when he was injured and sat for months is IMO not a rush to judgement that he has regressed. 

 

I also don't view moving Hanifin as having to do with cap savings. I think the Flames should just try and sell a bit higher on a player and use it to improve in other areas including maybe even a 1 for 1 swap in terms of cap hits. 

 

I think we can forget about moving Gio any time soon.  I am fine with giving him minutes based on performance as well.  Captain or not, he should only be on the ice if he belongs there.  We've seen that Ras can play with anybody, so we have to consider making a trade or signing a UFA RD.  A #2 or #4.  That's regardless of whether we trade Hanifin or not.  Like you, I think Valimaki is ready.  He would have been at worst a #5 last season.  

 

Whether we could find a trade for Hanifin that brings back a RD or some missing piece we have in the lineup.

As it stands, we have Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Dube, and Mangiapane as top 6 LW.  You could use Mangiapane and Dube on RW as well.  

But I would prefer to have a true RW on the 2nd or 3rd line and move Lucic down.

 

On defense, we have Gio, Hanifin, Valimaki, Kylington and Mackay all available for LD.  

For RD, all we really have is Ras.

Possibly you could use Kylington or Valiamki on RD.

Would Vatanen or Montour be a fit on RD here?

Vatanen is a FA, while the other would require a trade.

Make sense to sign Vatanen and trade Hanifin for a RW/C?

 

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Eklund has us potentially moving Gaudreau to Philly for two cap dumps (Ghostisbehere and Van Riemsdyk) and a pick. Usually the one team he actually has a read on is Philly, but this is down right laughable.

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25 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Eklund has us potentially moving Gaudreau to Philly for two cap dumps (Ghostisbehere and Van Riemsdyk) and a pick. Usually the one team he actually has a read on is Philly, but this is down right laughable.

Yeah, I read some of the fans from other teams LOL'ing this.  

 

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2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Yeah, I read some of the fans from other teams LOL'ing this.  

 

 

Even Flyers fans were laughing at the proposal.

 

Fozzie Bear Reaction GIF

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Pretty good Mangiapane comp if the Flames elect to go shorter term. Number are very similar althought Mang was the better 5 on 5 player. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, sak22 said:

I agree if it was possible, but with 11 teams that are wiped out of the picture due to the NTC, and many others with cap issues or team imposed caps plus teams with no shot at winning are going for him.  I just don't see it as an easy proposition to not only move him but gain anything of real value in the process.  I just don't think the market for aging players on contracts north of 5 was going to be strong to begin with, but the shape of the league is going to be worse.

 

Someone will be willing to ante up for Giordano.  On paper, he was still our top pair guy.  In reality, Brodie carried him.  We need to get something for Giordano before he's a $6.75-mil 3rd pair D.  

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27 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Someone will be willing to ante up for Giordano.  On paper, he was still our top pair guy.  In reality, Brodie carried him.  We need to get something for Giordano before he's a $6.75-mil 3rd pair D.  

 

If that was the case, then BT would be wrong in not evaluating the trade offer.

There really should be no sacred cows here in Cowtown.

When Gio signed the deal, he could have held out for more, but it would have crippled the team.

Sure, you don't trade him for a 7th rounder, but a reasonable one is a different story.

 

Then again, there are only two real reasons to trade Gio.

1) his play is holding the Flames back

2) a rebuild is under way; makes no sense other than having a veteran voice in the room and role model

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32 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Someone will be willing to ante up for Giordano.  On paper, he was still our top pair guy.  In reality, Brodie carried him.  We need to get something for Giordano before he's a $6.75-mil 3rd pair D.  

 

I don't think this is fair or true and certainly does not show up in the numbers. 

 

Gio-Andersson were actually a stronger pair than Gio-Brodie were and even Travis Hamonic looks fine when alongside Gio. Small sample size in many cases but Gio continues to hold up basically whoever he is paired with. 

 

Could make that argument for the playoffs sure but again I think it depends on whether or not you think the playoffs were Gio regressing or him struggling due to the fact he missed so much time and i'm in the later camp. In terms of the regular season though, Brodie did not carry Gio and Gio actually had a very strong season. 

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Maybe I'm trying to talk myself into this, but the more I think about a Kuemper trade, the more I think I'd be ok with it for the Flames.

 

I just look at the goalies that are rumoured to be available and I think that Kuemper is the best of the bunch and you he comes in on a really nice contract.

 

Andersen- I like him, but there are a lot more miles on him than Kuemper. He also only has one year left and will cost you 6 or 6.5 to keep around. 

Murray- Scary negotiation. Can't stay healthy and is going to want to be compensated like a 2x Cup winner. Coming off a miserable season.

Lehner- It sounds like he's getting 5x5 in Vegas.

Markstrom- I like Markstrom, but he will be expensive and you are probably giving him an NMC.

Korpisalo- CBJ is looking for scoring, so this would be part of a bigger deal. Most attractive thing is his contract, 2.8x2. But he is very inconsistent.

Talbot- I'd be ok with him back, but at this point I don't think you are winning a Cup with him. He's a really good 1B. He might have priced himself out of Calgary with his postseason.

 

It comes down to the price and which prospects ARI wants. But I'm more ok with a Kuemper move than I was, even a week ago. This isn't a Mike Smith acquisition. I think you can realistically expect 5 seasons of quality goaltending out of Kuemper. How nice would a little stability in net be for this organization?

 

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9 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Maybe I'm trying to talk myself into this, but the more I think about a Kuemper trade, the more I think I'd be ok with it for the Flames.

 

I just look at the goalies that are rumoured to be available and I think that Kuemper is the best of the bunch and you he comes in on a really nice contract.

 

Andersen- I like him, but there are a lot more miles on him than Kuemper. He also only has one year left and will cost you 6 or 6.5 to keep around. 

Murray- Scary negotiation. Can't stay healthy and is going to want to be compensated like a 2x Cup winner. Coming off a miserable season.

Lehner- It sounds like he's getting 5x5 in Vegas.

Markstrom- I like Markstrom, but he will be expensive and you are probably giving him an NMC.

Korpisalo- CBJ is looking for scoring, so this would be part of a bigger deal. Most attractive thing is his contract, 2.8x2. But he is very inconsistent.

Talbot- I'd be ok with him back, but at this point I don't think you are winning a Cup with him. He's a really good 1B. He might have priced himself out of Calgary with his postseason.

 

It comes down to the price and which prospects ARI wants. But I'm more ok with a Kuemper move than I was, even a week ago. This isn't a Mike Smith acquisition. I think you can realistically expect 5 seasons of quality goaltending out of Kuemper. How nice would a little stability in net be for this organization?

 


 

I get what you’re saying, but isn’t the knock on him that he doesn’t stay healthy or hasn’t played something like more than 30 games in a regular season?

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4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

I get what you’re saying, but isn’t the knock on him that he doesn’t stay healthy or hasn’t played something like more than 30 games in a regular season?

Last season he played 55 games, which is about what you want out of a starter these days. He would have played 60+ but he got a stick in the eye and missed some time. This year he was injured, I think it was a groin or knee.

 

He does have some injury history, but it’s nothing like Bishop and we all know how bad the Flames wanted him for almost 2 seasons.

 

Also worth noting that Kuemper was 5th in Vezina voting in 18/19, and would have been high on a lot of ballots again this season 

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Keumper has been one of the best goalies in the league the last couple years so the target makes absolute sense. You are getting a game changing goalie imo. 
 

I just don’t like the price tag for a 30 year old goalie who will need another deal in 2 years at age 32. Just doesn’t set up well to fix this long term and you shouldn’t use your first round pick unless your getting more term. I’d be very excited about adding Keumper I just hope the price isn’t what’s rumored. 

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31 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Keumper has been one of the best goalies in the league the last couple years so the target makes absolute sense. You are getting a game changing goalie imo. 
 

I just don’t like the price tag for a 30 year old goalie who will need another deal in 2 years at age 32. Just doesn’t set up well to fix this long term and you shouldn’t use your first round pick unless your getting more term. I’d be very excited about adding Keumper I just hope the price isn’t what’s rumored. 

I'm not big on trading the 1st either. I think now more than ever, you will need players coming in on ELC's due to the economic climate of the NHL. That becomes more difficult if you're dealing 1st's.

 

I just wouldn't be surprised though if the Flames pull the trigger on a Kuemper deal, knowing the revolving door in net the organization has had since 2013. There's value in having a #1, if it's worth a 1st rounder remains to be seen. 

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Lots of UFA goalies out there. I personally think it would be reckless to use any kind of asset (player, prospect, or pick) to acquire one. Keep the picks BT. 
 

Also, consider Lehner only got a one year $5mil deal last year, and now we have a flat cap with multiple goalies out there... I predict low salaries and low term for the lot of them. Perhaps bottom feeders have cap to throw around, but I doubt many GMs are interested in hitching their wagons to a pricey, long-term goalie when we expect a flat cap for at least the next few seasons. 
 

Again, I say stick with Talbot. I like what he brought. I like what Rittich brings. They’re a good tandem. Focus on improving the D-core and the goalies will look better for it. Apparently Petro was told to explore free agency by St. Louis. 

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2 hours ago, lou44291 said:

Lots of UFA goalies out there. I personally think it would be reckless to use any kind of asset (player, prospect, or pick) to acquire one. Keep the picks BT. 
 

Also, consider Lehner only got a one year $5mil deal last year, and now we have a flat cap with multiple goalies out there... I predict low salaries and low term for the lot of them. Perhaps bottom feeders have cap to throw around, but I doubt many GMs are interested in hitching their wagons to a pricey, long-term goalie when we expect a flat cap for at least the next few seasons. 
 

Again, I say stick with Talbot. I like what he brought. I like what Rittich brings. They’re a good tandem. Focus on improving the D-core and the goalies will look better for it. Apparently Petro was told to explore free agency by St. Louis. 

I agree 100% with your first 2 paragraphs. 

 

Regarding Talbot, he played tremendous for us in the playoffs but he now falls into a group of UFA's that include the likes of Holtby, Lehner, Murray, Markstrom....

 

I think BT would be doing the Flames a dis-service not to explore the UFA goaltending market. As you say, there maybe some deals to be had with a flat cap. Holtby is from Lloydminster,  Lehner and Markstrom are Swed's that would fit in nicely with the ones we already have. Lehner and Markstrom would be 1-2 on my list.

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7 hours ago, CheersMan said:

I agree 100% with your first 2 paragraphs. 

 

Regarding Talbot, he played tremendous for us in the playoffs but he now falls into a group of UFA's that include the likes of Holtby, Lehner, Murray, Markstrom....

 

I think BT would be doing the Flames a dis-service not to explore the UFA goaltending market. As you say, there maybe some deals to be had with a flat cap. Holtby is from Lloydminster,  Lehner and Markstrom are Swed's that would fit in nicely with the ones we already have. Lehner and Markstrom would be 1-2 on my list.


I don’t disagree Cheers. You’re right. The market should be explored. I’m making an assumption that Talbot would come in at a cheaper salary than the rest, but if he’s looking for a comparable salary to the other available goalies, then you have to review all options. 
 

In my opinion, if Talbot is willing to take a $2.5-$3mil contract for 2 years, and Lehner or Markstrom’s ask starts at $5mil... my argument is I don’t believe the trade-off in ability is worth the extra $2-$2.5mil per year. I think Talbot is comparable to those other 2 goalies and with a flat cap that extra $2-$2.5mil will go a long way.  
 

Someone here posted Friedman’s comment about Markstrom and Lindholm being friends (our lindholm?). Maybe the opportunity to play together will weigh in on his asking price. Lindholm sure didn’t break the bank for us. 

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why is everyone talking about trading Gio and referring to Iginla?? Iginla was an extraordinary /once in a lifetime kind of player.. Gio is simply a good steady all around defenceman who happens to be our current captain.. Aren't we looking for more d men that can play solid defense such as what Gio supplies?? yes.. he's getting on in years,, but his offense was always just a bonus... If you dump players like Gio.. nobody will ever want to play here.. He is still a very competent d man and can play with anyone and is great for mentoring the Valamaki;s of the team.. Gio is not Iginla.. Get that out of your head.. .. His value goes further on this team than his offensive acumen.. 

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11 hours ago, CheersMan said:

I agree 100% with your first 2 paragraphs. 

 

Regarding Talbot, he played tremendous for us in the playoffs but he now falls into a group of UFA's that include the likes of Holtby, Lehner, Murray, Markstrom....

 

I think BT would be doing the Flames a dis-service not to explore the UFA goaltending market. As you say, there maybe some deals to be had with a flat cap. Holtby is from Lloydminster,  Lehner and Markstrom are Swed's that would fit in nicely with the ones we already have. Lehner and Markstrom would be 1-2 on my list.

For me any of the aforementiooned are an upgrade on Talbot. I also dont get to bent out of shape with the analytics of the numbers. Our club, despite what some thinkhas poor D, very poor defensive systems  to the eye test. Our club needs a goalie that can some what stand on his own as our club frequenlty leaves our goalies out to dry.  Based on that  the best option for our club would be Markstrom. Comes from a club which has more porous D coverage than ours.  Why take a goalie that has looked good on a very defensively structured team ie Coyetes, Veagas.  I steer clear of Holby, Murray, Talbot IMHO your just stop gapping a position based on a false premise we have great defense and quality defensive systems is piss poor management. Kuemper may have looked good behind a defensivley sound team in PHX, he is going to look average here. For me Markstrom is the guy that moves the needle the most, that would be my number one target. 

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3 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Kuemper may have looked good behind a defensivley sound team in PHX, he is going to look average here. For me Markstrom is the guy that moves the needle the most, that would be my number one target. 

 

Agreed on Markstrom. Disagree on Kuemper. He is the best player that the Coyotes have. I'm not sure that allowing 40+ shots consistently is a solid defensive team.

 

He played 9 playoff games for Arizona and faced over 40 shots in 5 of them. These weren't shots from the perimeter either, lots of high quality shots. 

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3 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

Agreed on Markstrom. Disagree on Kuemper. He is the best player that the Coyotes have. I'm not sure that allowing 40+ shots consistently is a solid defensive team.

 

He played 9 playoff games for Arizona and faced over 40 shots in 5 of them. These weren't shots from the perimeter either, lots of high quality shots. 

As did Talbot, does that make him the best option? Not saying goalies can get hot and cold, but look at the teams both of these guys palyed on. ARZ is far more defensivley sould,structured than VAN, yet who was more impressive. With out Markstrom VAN goes no where. All I am making my suggestion on is the BEST fit for our club based on what I have watched. Kuemper is good but IMHO is maybe slightly bettter than Talbot. He is injury prone which means you need a solid backup, Rittich I am not backing the future on either. I most definlty am not tradng a 1st for Kuemper IMHO if that happens Tre needs to be fired. WIth the multiple UFA goalies you may as well take a shot at the  best UFA out there. If you can not get Markstrom just get a stop gap for a couple of years and hope your development and draft selections pay off. Markstrom would be my first choice after that I jsut fill the void with a short term guy. Kuemper based on what you have to give up potetnial is not worth the risk. 

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4 hours ago, lou44291 said:


I don’t disagree Cheers. You’re right. The market should be explored. I’m making an assumption that Talbot would come in at a cheaper salary than the rest, but if he’s looking for a comparable salary to the other available goalies, then you have to review all options. 
 

In my opinion, if Talbot is willing to take a $2.5-$3mil contract for 2 years, and Lehner or Markstrom’s ask starts at $5mil... my argument is I don’t believe the trade-off in ability is worth the extra $2-$2.5mil per year. I think Talbot is comparable to those other 2 goalies and with a flat cap that extra $2-$2.5mil will go a long way.  
 

Someone here posted Friedman’s comment about Markstrom and Lindholm being friends (our lindholm?). Maybe the opportunity to play together will weigh in on his asking price. Lindholm sure didn’t break the bank for us. 

 

You can't compare Keumper and Markstrom with Talbot.

Talbot is good but not great.

He had enough bad goals let in this year to be wary.

Unless the goalie market is saturated, he's getting $4m.

Too many teams need to make changes.

 

I don't think we can wwin a bidding war with teams for a goalie.

We might be able to top out at $5m.

We still have to fix the holes on defense.

 

 

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