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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You can't compare Keumper and Markstrom with Talbot.

Talbot is good but not great.

He had enough bad goals let in this year to be wary.

Unless the goalie market is saturated, he's getting $4m.

Too many teams need to make changes.

 

I don't think we can wwin a bidding war with teams for a goalie.

We might be able to top out at $5m.

We still have to fix the holes on defense.

 

 

Have to agree on most of this, with a caveat. I for one would do 5 - 5.75 for Markstrom possibly 6 depending on term. This process is a double edged sward, either you get a world class goaile and keep your Satoshi Nakamoto defensive style/ players in place or get better coverage and defensive players with an average goaltending.  I weigh on the side of good goaltending. We need defensive dman, which can be had. Not to often a stud goalie comes around in a time and periods where 2/3 of the teams are not spending and we have the capibilty to. Markstrom moves the needle more for us than a stud Dman like Petro. Will Markstrom get paid yes as he should, if its in that 5-6 mill mark why not us. 

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I am starting to think us and the Rangers might be good trade partners. I don't think they would have much interest in Gaudreau, but I think they would have interest in Monahan and Hanifin.

 

I could see Calgary having interest in Tony DeAngelo. They also have a bunch of prospects that would fit, as well as two 1st round picks this year.

 

The deal I am building would be Monahan and Hanifin for DeAngelo, Strome a 2020 1st and one of Chytil, Buchnevich, Kravtsov, Miller or Hajek.

 

DeAngelo has a lots warts, there is no doubt about that, but he is one of the best offensive defensemen and PP QB's in the NHL, it really something this team lacks. Strome helps fill the hole left by Monahan. The 1st helps restock the cupboards. I really like Chytil and think the Rangers have messed with his development. He has the skating ability and skill to be a very good center in this league. I could see Chytil blossoming under Ward. Ideally I would give Chytil top 6 minutes with Gaudreau and Lindholm or Strome, and see if he can be that big time offensive weapon he was drafted to be.

 

A move like this carries some risk for sure, but I can see it making Calgary better now and in the future.

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20 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Have to agree on most of this, with a caveat. I for one would do 5 - 5.75 for Markstrom possibly 6 depending on term. This process is a double edged sward, either you get a world class goaile and keep your Satoshi Nakamoto defensive style/ players in place or get better coverage and defensive players with an average goaltending.  I weigh on the side of good goaltending. We need defensive dman, which can be had. Not to often a stud goalie comes around in a time and periods where 2/3 of the teams are not spending and we have the capibilty to. Markstrom moves the needle more for us than a stud Dman like Petro. Will Markstrom get paid yes as he should, if its in that 5-6 mill mark why not us. 

 

Maybe that makes a lot of sense if we have an up and coming prospect.

I hate the idea of spending $8m on two goalies

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20 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I am starting to think us and the Rangers might be good trade partners. I don't think they would have much interest in Gaudreau, but I think they would have interest in Monahan and Hanifin.

 

I could see Calgary having interest in Tony DeAngelo. They also have a bunch of prospects that would fit, as well as two 1st round picks this year.

 

The deal I am building would be Monahan and Hanifin for DeAngelo, Strome a 2020 1st and one of Chytil, Buchnevich, Kravtsov, Miller or Hajek.

 

DeAngelo has a lots warts, there is no doubt about that, but he is one of the best offensive defensemen and PP QB's in the NHL, it really something this team lacks. Strome helps fill the hole left by Monahan. The 1st helps restock the cupboards. I really like Chytil and think the Rangers have messed with his development. He has the skating ability and skill to be a very good center in this league. I could see Chytil blossoming under Ward. Ideally I would give Chytil top 6 minutes with Gaudreau and Lindholm or Strome, and see if he can be that big time offensive weapon he was drafted to be.

 

A move like this carries some risk for sure, but I can see it making Calgary better now and in the future.

 

Buyer beware on Strome.  His career was over until Zibanejad got injured for a few weeks and Strome was gifted Panarin's career season on his wing.  He got lucky.  He's not as good as his numbers suggest and certainly not going to replace Monahan in any capacity.  I'm sure the Rangers would love to sell high on him.

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3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Buyer beware on Strome.  His career was over until Zibanejad got injured for a few weeks and Strome was gifted Panarin's career season on his wing.  He got lucky.  He's not as good as his numbers suggest and certainly not going to replace Monahan in any capacity.  I'm sure the Rangers would love to sell high on him.


this a great point and I agree, would also add I think Deangelo is in the same boat. You are buying really high on a player who I thought had a career year offensively. You’ll pay for that and then get stuck with a player who is awful in is own zone and not exactly a stand up citizen to boot. 
 

I don’t think Deangelo would be of interest to the flames. They are very up front that they put a high value on character and that’s an area he is really lacking in. 

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6 hours ago, lou44291 said:


I don’t disagree Cheers. You’re right. The market should be explored. I’m making an assumption that Talbot would come in at a cheaper salary than the rest, but if he’s looking for a comparable salary to the other available goalies, then you have to review all options. 
 

In my opinion, if Talbot is willing to take a $2.5-$3mil contract for 2 years, and Lehner or Markstrom’s ask starts at $5mil... my argument is I don’t believe the trade-off in ability is worth the extra $2-$2.5mil per year. I think Talbot is comparable to those other 2 goalies and with a flat cap that extra $2-$2.5mil will go a long way.  
 

Someone here posted Friedman’s comment about Markstrom and Lindholm being friends (our lindholm?). Maybe the opportunity to play together will weigh in on his asking price. Lindholm sure didn’t break the bank for us. 


 

the one thing people don’t remember about Lindholm prior to coming to Calgary is that he only averaged roughly around 35 points per season or lower than 40 points per season before the trade. He was negotiating on those numbers and not the numbers he’s currently averaging since the trade. We think he’s on this magical contract but really it was what he was worth and possibly the very slightest overpaid at the time. 
 

the same was going for Hanifin and with some improvements we’re going to be earning the right salary. The thing with Lindholm is he has surpassed expectations since. We thought too 6 player but not a top liner.

 

so I don’t think Markstrom will give a discount but will consider the Flames as an option to play with his buddy. 

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2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

For me any of the aforementiooned are an upgrade on Talbot. I also dont get to bent out of shape with the analytics of the numbers. Our club, despite what some thinkhas poor D, very poor defensive systems  to the eye test. Our club needs a goalie that can some what stand on his own as our club frequenlty leaves our goalies out to dry.  Based on that  the best option for our club would be Markstrom. Comes from a club which has more porous D coverage than ours.  Why take a goalie that has looked good on a very defensively structured team ie Coyetes, Veagas.  I steer clear of Holby, Murray, Talbot IMHO your just stop gapping a position based on a false premise we have great defense and quality defensive systems is piss poor management. Kuemper may have looked good behind a defensivley sound team in PHX, he is going to look average here. For me Markstrom is the guy that moves the needle the most, that would be my number one target. 


 

this reminds me of Elliott. We all thought he could solve the goaltending and yet the club left him out on his own a lot. 
 

Apparently the numbers say the Flames are average or slightly above average in high danger chances against and Some say that the goalies should be able to make up for the fact. But I am with you, I fell the high danger chances the Flames give up are some of the worst , odd man breaks, break always, giveaways at Blue line, or neutral zone as the D is set at moving up ice, that they’re the ones we tend to give up and almost guaranteed goals against. I get most teams give up chances, but I feel the Flames give up worse ones than other teams do. 
 

one other thing though is, as good as Johnny is and the skill on the rest of team, We tend to overthink or over- pass  the offence on a rush. 

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Maybe that makes a lot of sense if we have an up and coming prospect.

I hate the idea of spending $8m on two goalies

Pretty sure we have some up and coming goaltending prospects.

8 mil for one season would seem like a small price to pay for just one season if it solidifies the position for the next 5-6 years.

BT would still have his draft picks in his pocket as well.

Lehner just turned 29. Markstrom will be 31 in Jan.

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1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

Pretty sure we have some up and coming goaltending prospects.

8 mil for one season would seem like a small price to pay for just one season if it solidifies the position for the next 5-6 years.

BT would still have his draft picks in his pocket as well.

Lehner just turned 29. Markstrom will be 31 in Jan.


 

with their ages, they have about 4-6 years left in them? You hope by then a Wolf or Parsons or anyone else could come up.

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I think Markstrom will get somewhere in the range of $4.75m and $5.5m, the question will be term. I think to get him signed you have to go to that 5th year. I would rather give him that contract than spend a 1st on Kuemper.

 

Right now I would wait and see if we can get Markstrom first and then look at the goalie trade market after that.

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11 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I think Markstrom will get somewhere in the range of $4.75m and $5.5m, the question will be term. I think to get him signed you have to go to that 5th year. I would rather give him that contract than spend a 1st on Kuemper.

 

Right now I would wait and see if we can get Markstrom first and then look at the goalie trade market after that.


 

that would be the best route! I would even sign Talbot over trading a first for a goalie. 3-5 years of a goalie for a player that could be a 10-12 year Flame if drafted right.

 

would Kuemper put us in a cup co tender realm? I’d say no, not until the D gets a stud and the C gets one that approaches stud.

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I'm amazed VAN hasn't gotten anything done with Markstrom. 

 

Whether you lose him this offseason to free agency or Seattle picks him makes no difference. You're still losing an asset for nothing. I'd re-sign Markstrom and then protect the better goalie next season. 

 

Issue might be VAN not wanting to give out an NMC.

 

5.5 is likely fair value, but teams hardly get fair value in free agency. I think it would take 5.5x6  or even 6x6 to get Markstrom. I think adding a 6th year wins you a bidding war.

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I'm amazed VAN hasn't gotten anything done with Markstrom. 

 

Whether you lose him this offseason to free agency or Seattle picks him makes no difference. You're still losing an asset for nothing. I'd re-sign Markstrom and then protect the better goalie next season. 

 

Issue might be VAN not wanting to give out an NMC.

 

5.5 is likely fair value, but teams hardly get fair value in free agency. I think it would take 5.5x6  or even 6x6 to get Markstrom. I think adding a 6th year wins you a bidding war.

 

I think it's the NMC that is holding things up. I think Vancouver wants to have the option to expose Markstrom in the expansion draft if Demko looks like he is ready to be a number 1. 

 

If Lehner is getting 5x5, that's sets the market for Markstrom. I would be surprised if he gets much more than that.

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29 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think it's the NMC that is holding things up. I think Vancouver wants to have the option to expose Markstrom in the expansion draft if Demko looks like he is ready to be a number 1. 

 

If Lehner is getting 5x5, that's sets the market for Markstrom. I would be surprised if he gets much more than that.

I have a hard time seeing Markstrom’s agent  using Vegas contracts as a comparable. The tax situation is different and its a place where players will take less to stay. I think Lehner is leaving money on the table if that deal does come to fruition. 

 

I think there could easily be 5 teams in on Markstrom which is why I think he gets more than Lehner.

 

I’m just more of a pessimist with free agents. Seems to me they get 500k more and an extra year than they are probably worth

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16 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I have a hard time seeing Markstrom’s agent  using Vegas contracts as a comparable. The tax situation is different and its a place where players will take less to stay. I think Lehner is leaving money on the table if that deal does come to fruition. 

 

I think there could easily be 5 teams in on Markstrom which is why I think he gets more than Lehner

 

Earlier today Alan Walsh, tweeted that the tax situation in Canada is overblown. Basically players can use Retirement Competition Agreement to put up to half their salary in a retirement plan, where they would pay less taxes now. When they retire and they move to somewhere with less taxes, they pay the taxes on the money then.

 

This about as saturated a goalie market as I have ever seen. Add in covid economics and a flat cap, and I think many UFA's are going to get less than they were expecting. 

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I have a hard time seeing Markstrom’s agent  using Vegas contracts as a comparable. The tax situation is different and its a place where players will take less to stay. I think Lehner is leaving money on the table if that deal does come to fruition. 

 

I think there could easily be 5 teams in on Markstrom which is why I think he gets more than Lehner.

 

I’m just more of a pessimist with free agents. Seems to me they get 500k more and an extra year than they are probably worth

Who are the 5 teams you think are in the market for a #1 goalie? 

 

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Earlier today Alan Walsh, tweeted that the tax situation in Canada is overblown. Basically players can use Retirement Competition Agreement to put up to half their salary in a retirement plan, where they would pay less taxes now. When they retire and they move to somewhere with less taxes, they pay the taxes on the money then.

 

This about as saturated a goalie market as I have ever seen. Add in covid economics and a flat cap, and I think many UFA's are going to get less than they were expecting. 

Sounds like an RRSP contribution, pay tax now or pay later. Some players may elect to keep their cash in their pocket and play south of the border.

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6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

This is the tweet I was referring too.

Yes, I seen that tonight. Net gain is 10% in the players pocket if a player chooses to play in LV over Canada.

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Allan Walsh is not totally accurate though. Part of an RCA is you also have to set aside funds that the CRA holds to offset any future tax liabilities and they offer no growth on this pool. So while yes they can limit a players overall tax liability and close the gap somewhat, they also result in less take home pay which can be an issue for many players too as it’s still not as advantageous as living in a lower tax state. Shrinks the gap but doesn’t close it. 
 

Issue is more complex than both Burke and Walsh outlined as both simplified things to make their point. But t the end of the day it’s also far more complex than capfirendly and other calculators make it too. Not as large a problem as it’s made out to be 

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It will be interesting if Markstrom wants a NMC. Flames under Treliving have yet to give one out and he has stated its their policy not to give them out. they are prepared to lose players if it comes to it as well. 
 

I did read Markstrom is willing to work around the expansion draft with the Canucks but he wants something else in the contract to give that up. Canucks also are not sitting on a ton of cap space and need to get the Brinks truck ready for Hughes and Petterson next year so it’s a contract they need to be careful with for multiple reasons. 

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10 hours ago, CheersMan said:

Who are the 5 teams you think are in the market for a #1 goalie? 

 

I look at all the teams that have been linked to Murray/Andersen/Kuemper.

 

CGY/CHI/EDM/CAR/MIN/SJ. I would put BUF and COL in the mix too. There’s a lot of goalies available, but there are also a lot of goalies looking for a legit #1 like Markstrom

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Eklund has us signing Markstrom at an E4, whatever that means. 

 

The post did make some good points. His "source" said that not only does signing Markstrom solve our goalie problem, it also means we take away the number one goalie from one of our biggest rivals, and even we don't sign him at least we will have driven the price up.

 

Lindholm and Markstrom are good friends so maybe Lindholm is doing some recruitment for us.

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23 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Eklund has us signing Markstrom at an E4, whatever that means. 

 

The post did make some good points. His "source" said that not only does signing Markstrom solve our goalie problem, it also means we take away the number one goalie from one of our biggest rivals, and even we don't sign him at least we will have driven the price up.

 

Lindholm and Markstrom are good friends so maybe Lindholm is doing some recruitment for us.

 

How much will Markstrom cost though?

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8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

How much will Markstrom cost though?

 

I would say between 4-6 years at $4.5-6m. 

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23 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Earlier today Alan Walsh, tweeted that the tax situation in Canada is overblown. Basically players can use Retirement Competition Agreement to put up to half their salary in a retirement plan, where they would pay less taxes now. When they retire and they move to somewhere with less taxes, they pay the taxes on the money then.

 

This about as saturated a goalie market as I have ever seen. Add in covid economics and a flat cap, and I think many UFA's are going to get less than they were expecting. 

 

There maybe zero UFA's signed on day 1, maybe zero the first week. It's looking like next season will start with no paying fans in 30 empty buildings, the league/ owners will be bleeding millions if that is the case. Many owners may have already closed their purse strings all together and plan to ask the players union for a scaled approach rebate on salaries to offset the losses. These are unchartered waters atm.

 

12 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I look at all the teams that have been linked to Murray/Andersen/Kuemper.

 

CGY/CHI/EDM/CAR/MIN/SJ. I would put BUF and COL in the mix too. There’s a lot of goalies available, but there are also a lot of goalies looking for a legit #1 like Markstrom

 

Thanks for those.

Edm has Koskinen at $4.5 x 2 yrs.

MIN has Dubnyk at $4.33 x 1yr.

SJ has Jones at $5.75 x 4yr.

CAR has Reimer at $3.4 x 1yr plus Mrazek at $3.1 x 1yr.

COL has Grubauer at $3.33 x 1yr plus Francouz at 2.0 x 2yr. 

CGY, CHI, BUF and VAN would appear to be the front line leaders on having #1 goalie money available.

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